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#1: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 05:15:20 by D

I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

Any suggestions?

...D.

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#2: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 06:40:02 by rf

....D. wrote:

> I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
> want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
> side-job?

Get an editor that does nice syntax colouring. Crimson editor is the one I
use. There are others.

> something like Front Page?

*NO*. Never, ever use frontpage. It inserts rubbish into your code.


--
Cheers
Richard.

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#3: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 06:41:42 by Augustus

"...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
news:31m2q0l43narbiltoede424i0lctdim570@4ax.com...
> I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
> want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
> side-job?

So... the next step is doing web design as a side job?

I kid you not, but some of us actually do this full time for a living!!
(where its neither a side job, or a job where we have a side job)


> What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
> lot about Front Page.)

Well... programs like FrontPage or Dreamweaver might be "Ok" for an
inexperienced person to update their website with... but they'd still have
to buy them (and I say "might be ok" which doesn't mean 'is a good choice'
or 'is ok'... you could sit with some people and show them over and over
again for a whole day on how to update their site with FrontPage and they'll
still have no clue what they are doing a day later)

What you want to search around the net for is "Content Management System" or
"CMS"

You might want to include the programming language you prefer to work with

Personally I would prefer to write a custom CMS system myself... but it can
take alot of time and effort to build a good system. If you are just
thinking of doing this as some side gig to make a few extra bucks here and
there, then you might want to just buy a premade CMS system... if you want
to do this web design stuff for a living then you might want to work on
writing your own (a good, though potentially extremely complex, project to
develop and learn the ropes with)

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#4: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 08:01:53 by Alan Cole

In article <31m2q0l43narbiltoede424i0lctdim570@4ax.com>,
...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

> I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
> want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
> side-job?
>
> What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
> lot about Front Page.)

No no no, don't use front-page! Although, I'm currently developing a
site for a university dept. and part of the requirements from the
universities Information Services Dept on web design regulations are
that it has to be editable in Front-page!! I've tried to tell them that
serious web-designers don't use Front Page, but they won't have any of
it.
I don't have Front Page myself, so I've convinved them to have a simple
Content Management System instead. I think you'll find most people will
use a text-editor, but one that colour-codes your syntax. I use an app
called PageSpinner on my Mac which also has built in ftp support and
lots of other features (including a preview page). Another Mac app that
looks good is TextMate which has loads of good features (auto tag
completion, site management etc etc.)

Lots of people do use Dreamweaver and then encourage their clients to
purchase Macromedia Contribute to allow them to maintain their sites.
personally I've never got on with Dreamweaver and most of my clients
couldn't afford to purchase a Contribute license so I just build them
quick and easy Content Management Systems. A simple CMS allowing them to
just change the text on each page using php and a MySQL database takes
no longer to build that a normal html + css page. You can of course
charge a little more for CMS features.

HTH
Al.

>
> Any suggestions?
>
> ...D.

--
Alan Cole. E-mail: justal at lineone dot net
http://www.forces-of-nature.co.uk [Coastal Sports]
http://www.tsunami-site-design.co.uk [Website Design]
http://tinyurl.com/64xrd [Plusnet ISP]

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#5: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 10:06:34 by SpaceGirl

....D. wrote:
> I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
> want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
> side-job?
>
> What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
> lot about Front Page.)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> ...D.

DreamWeaver MX 2004, without a doubt. It makes life VERY easy. But only
if you're an experienced HTML writer, and never in "WYSIWYG" mode.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

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#6: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 11:23:15 by D

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:15:20 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

>I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
>want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
>side-job?
>
>What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
>then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
>maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
>lot about Front Page.)
>
>Any suggestions?
>
> ...D.

Ok thanks for the suggestions. I am not interested at this time in
writing or competing with full time professionals who write for big
business. I know HTML in notepad pretty good. I do not know any
additional languages. But what I want is something that an individual or
small business (on a budget) can maintain the site themselves if they so
choose.

Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
it myself and what program should I use?

Thanks again...

...D.

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#7: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 13:26:02 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:

> Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
> pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
> your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
> them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
> it myself and what program should I use?

I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#8: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 14:12:19 by Karl Groves

"...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
news:31m2q0l43narbiltoede424i0lctdim570@4ax.com...

>What 3rd party program should I get into
> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
> lot about Front Page.)
>
> Any suggestions?

I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question that
gets asked, on average, once a week.


--
-Karl Core
Please Support "Project Boneyard":
http://www.insurgence.net/info.aspx?action=band&item=boneyar d

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#9: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 21:01:25 by Dan Ruscoe

In article <MPG.1c0b88c4792712529896bf@news.intergate.com>, neredbojias
says...
> Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:
>
> > Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
> > pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
> > your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
> > them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
> > it myself and what program should I use?
>
> I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.

Some clients have their hearts set on pointless flash intros. Often the
best thing to do is give them what they want, include a 'skip intro'
link and take their money.

--
Dan Ruscoe

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#10: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 21:31:52 by D

>"...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
>news:31m2q0l43narbiltoede424i0lctdim570@4ax.com...
>
>>What 3rd party program should I get into
>> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
>> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
>> lot about Front Page.)
>>
>> Any suggestions?

"Karl Core" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote:
>I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question that
>gets asked, on average, once a week.

Now see, Karl, everything was going nicely. I just re-subscribed into
this newsgroup after not having it for a while. In the time it took you
to write that sentence you could have written a one liner saying "learn to
do it yourself because bla bla bla." or" don't do it yourself because bla
bla bla." or "have someone else do it because blabla bla"..

There is kind of an "expert club" in this newsgroup I noticed before when
I looked in on (subscribed breifly) this newsgroup that some people here
belong to, and if you are not savvy enough, they want you to go reasearch
it on your own. Well, I don't see in the title of this newsgroup where it
says anything about "beginners excluded" or whatever. That is what I feel
newsgroups are for, to ask questions - hell I could do all kinds of Google
searches and read and read and search and come up with an answer. Of
course this is not aimed at most people in this newsgroup, or at least the
other 6 people who responded so far.
...D.

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#11: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 21:41:13 by Barbara de Zoete

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:31:52 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

>> "...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
>> news:31m2q0l43narbiltoede424i0lctdim570@4ax.com...
>>
>>> What 3rd party program should I get into
>>> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
>>> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
>>> lot about Front Page.)
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>
> "Karl Core" <karl@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote:
>> I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question
>> that
>> gets asked, on average, once a week.
>
> Now see, Karl, everything was going nicely. I just re-subscribed into
> this newsgroup after not having it for a while. In the time it took you
> to write that sentence you could have written a one liner saying "learn
> to do it yourself because bla bla bla." or" don't do it yourself because
> bla
> bla bla." or "have someone else do it because blabla bla"..

Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl is
very legit with his response.

As to being new: if you enter any sort of community, be it a forum or a
bar or a hotel or a newsgroup or a school or later, when you really grow
up, a home for the elderly, first thing you look for is how people
interact, find the do's and don'ts.
One of the don'ts in any newsgroup I know, is that the same question gets
repeatedly answerd over and over and over again by the same group of
people. Referring to the archives of this newsgroup might in fact be a
better answer than any one you got in this thread, because it includes
much more than gets revealed in this single thread, especially since
people stopped contributing to this question.

It would be a lot easier for all of us if you could accompany a next
question whith a short talk about what you have done to find the answer
yourself. That way you wont get advise to do what you already did for
example.
--
Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>

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#12: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 23:14:22 by a.nony.mous

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

> Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
> personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl
> is very legit with his response.

...and sooner or later, someone will post one of these for an answer. <g>

http://www.amatecon.com/fish.html

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

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#13: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 23:23:01 by Barbara de Zoete

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:14:22 GMT, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
<a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote:

> Barbara de Zoete wrote:
>
>> Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
>> personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl
>> is very legit with his response.
>
> ..and sooner or later, someone will post one of these for an answer. <g>
>
> http://www.amatecon.com/fish.html
>

LOL I'll see if I can remember to throw in that page what appropriate.

--
Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>

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#14: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 23:26:52 by D

"Barbara de Zoete" <b_de_zoete@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
>personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl is
>very legit with his response.
>
>As to being new: if you enter any sort of community, be it a forum or a
>bar or a hotel or a newsgroup or a school or later, when you really grow
>up, a home for the elderly, first thing you look for is how people
>interact, find the do's and don'ts.
>One of the don'ts in any newsgroup I know, is that the same question gets
>repeatedly answerd over and over and over again by the same group of
>people. Referring to the archives of this newsgroup might in fact be a
>better answer than any one you got in this thread, because it includes
>much more than gets revealed in this single thread, especially since
>people stopped contributing to this question.
>
>It would be a lot easier for all of us if you could accompany a next
>question whith a short talk about what you have done to find the answer
>yourself. That way you wont get advise to do what you already did for
>example.

I have been doing the Internet for a year and a half now after
re-introducing myself to computing. I have become completely immersed and
it is a wonderful hobby, and I spend lots of time in. I know quite a bit
now in several aspects of computing. I am no dummy. You say one of the
don't is this, and I say no, it is not. Not if all it takes is a few
sentences for sure.

I have been doing Usenet in the year and a half. I am right on about some
"members" of this newsgroup. I have looked in here more than I let on. I
know a bit more than I let on about website design, though still not very
knowledgeable in a lot of it, and thus my post was legitimate. I felt I
had to act this way or else get the "snub" again.

So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish, I
feel it is a legitimate point of view. I do not see it written down that
it should be this way, I just happen to think not and you do. If it said
was alt.html.professionas I wouldn't even be here and I wouldn't ask here.
A far as I am concerned by the newsgeoup title name, utter complete
beginners should be able to ask very basic stuff here, and get helpful
anwsers. Not "go fish". At least should be "You have to learn just a few
basics, start here and come back later once you've got a few thjings down:
http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/

And I understand this is a newsgroup - so in that light, My opinion of how
to research a subject and yours are equally legit. So we have differing
opinions about it. He is not the first to mention to others to look it up
yourself, and I feel the same way about those replies too. Nothing is
100%, in a few cases are legit, not usually.

I'd be searching for what headers?, And spending time reading each post I
was searching, then trying another search criteria.., hoping it hit on my
issue. So - my opinion is newgroups exist for exacltly that you don't
have to research first !! And also when I subscribe to a newsgroup like
I just did here, I don't have it load up every post available, I give it a
finite number (like a weeks worth of headers).. So I can't search back
anyway unless I unsubscribe and re subscribe and load up 1000s of headers,
which I ain't gonna do, and don't feel others should have to do either.

So we disagree. I spouted, you spouted. Where in the rules does it say
you have to pre-research before you ask a question. Some suggest this of
course. I am on the opposite fence of what a newsgroups function is.

Also, I haven't been completely honest, I kinda acted as if I did not
already have a 3rd party website writing program, but I do already have
one, and am just now getting used to it. But I wanted pure feedback
because I'll abandon this one (was only $50) if there is something better
to look into... It is not a well known company that makes it. I just
wanted to see if I could get away from telling a possible client that I
might write for to buy the same program I used to maintain the site. I
don't like a few things it handles certain ways. Kind of mystical writing
all scripts. There should be a lesser $$ "maintenance" software package,
but there is not. Also why waste time training myself with it, if
eventually I would move beyond the "individual & small business" stage..
It is all speculation now as I have not yet written anything for anyone.

Here's what I've done so far. Didn't know what "HTML" was 6 months ago.
Learned from websites like davesite - not asking here - so I am not that
Fxxkin lazy. New site new name. Abandoned my old site name for
something more generic (ran a Blacknova Traders web-based game website
written in notepad & HTML only my son wanted - no Javascript or any other
languages, and still am not real knowledgeable with the java, though can
copy-paste and try).

In case anyone is interested in my effort thus far with a $50 3rd party
program : http://www.kicknet.net Like I said - trying to break into the
individuals or small business as a part time occasional gig.. Don't be
too critical.

...D.

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#15: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 23:37:58 by Barbara de Zoete

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:26:52 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

> "Barbara de Zoete" <b_de_zoete@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
>> personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl
>> is
>> very legit with his response.
>>

<snip way too long bedtime story>

It is not about being professional. It is adopting the groups flow, if you
want to, get in groove with what is and what is not in here.

I'm not at all interested in an abstract of your diary.

Good bey,


--
Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>

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#16: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 23:52:44 by D

"Barbara de Zoete" <b_de_zoete@hotmail.com> wrote:
><snip way too long bedtime story>
>
>It is not about being professional. It is adopting the groups flow, if you
>want to, get in groove with what is and what is not in here.
>
>I'm not at all interested in an abstract of your diary.
>
>Good bey,

Have a good one. ...Good bey to you too...

...D.

P.S. And BTW I don't care if you are interested or not in my diary. But
at least you didn't say "go do Google research on how to write a diary".

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#17: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-22 23:55:31 by rf

....D. wrote:

> I have been doing the Internet for a year and a half now

Some of us have been here for five, ten years of more.

> http://www.kicknet.net

A pity it's broken :-(

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/temp/kicknet.jpg

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#18: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 00:16:52 by a.nony.mous

....D. wrote:

....
> So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
> checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
> with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish,

Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch your
fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll get your
Tuesday fish for you as well.

Who wants to sign on to get his Wednesday fish? ;-)

Rereading the thread, I already see a number of answers to your
original question...

OBTW, what's this all about?
http://www.kicknet.net/_wp_scripts/jsDetectBrowser.js

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

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#19: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 00:29:28 by rf

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

> Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch your
> fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll get your
> Tuesday fish for you as well.

It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said fish. Just
need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :-)

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#20: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 00:47:51 by a.nony.mous

rf wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch
>> your fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll
>> get your Tuesday fish for you as well.
>
> It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said
> fish. Just need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :-)

You got your rod out early, eh? Ono, does that mean I have to catch
the Wednesday fish?

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left digging worms.

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#21: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 00:55:50 by rf

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> rf wrote:
>
> > It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said
> > fish. Just need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :-)
>
> You got your rod out early, eh?

Early? It's already 11AM. Been up for a couple of hours. Cup of coffee. Down
to the creek for a spot of fishing. Read all the usenet postings. Snipe at a
broken text container. The usual Tuesday stuff.

> Ono, does that mean I have to catch
> the Wednesday fish?

Yep. One of the trucks is in for a service and the wife is getting her hair
done with the other one. I'm stuck at home all by myself on Wednesday ;-(

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#22: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 02:06:43 by Henry

....D. wrote:

> Have a good one. ...Good bey to you too...
>
> ...D.
>
> P.S. And BTW I don't care if you are interested or not in my diary. But
> at least you didn't say "go do Google research on how to write a diary".



Hahahahahahaha...

D.

Join the club. :)

You have entered a mad sharkâÂÂs zone.

Rules are simple.

1. css is a king, the only tool for a layout.

2. notepad is a prince.

3. agree our opinions/rules, we will tell you something.

4. disobey it ( use Front Page or tables ) we will give you a hell.

5. even if you will make one, own page on CD ROM with your own photos
and you will want to use it only by your girlfriend, still all above
rules are applying.

6. we are the only intelligent web designers and nowhere you can get any
quality help, because the rest are total morons.

7. try to catch us in our good mood

8. you suppose to have a sixth sense to know, where the hell are FAQ for
this newsgroup and you are obliged to read it, learn it and memorize it
and when you will show us with a huge doze of a humility, that you do,
we will help you.


I think that should be added to FAQ with some corrections of grammar.

;)


Check my posts here to find, that all above is a correct procedure for
this NG.

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#23: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 03:07:27 by Wyrm

"Henry" <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41a28d1e$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
<snip>

you forgot

9. Henry is trolling because he can't accept that most things are easier to
do with CSS ;)


I see you still didn't bother to comment that what ever garage crap site
made as CSS instead of horrible tables. ;)

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#24: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 04:38:29 by Blinky the Shark

Henry wrote:

> You have entered a mad shark?s zone.

Hey!

--
Blinky the Shark Linux Registered User 297263

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#25: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 04:50:27 by Henry

Blinky the Shark wrote:
> Henry wrote:
>
>
>>You have entered a mad shark?s zone.
>
>
> Hey!
>



Yeah... Linux user!

I love those ones as lovers of VW Beetle.

Boths are trying hard to prove that BOTH categories are lovable.

If the husband hates his wife, installing for her Linux an buying her VW
Beetle convertible.

;)

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#26: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 04:56:18 by Mark Parnell

Previously in alt.html, Henry <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> said:

> If the husband hates his wife, installing for her Linux

I installed Linux for my wife (who I most certainly don't hate), and she
loves it.

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
"Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004

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#27: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 05:01:19 by Henry

Wÿrm wrote:
> "Henry" <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41a28d1e$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
> <snip>
>
> you forgot
>
> 9. Henry is trolling because he can't accept that most things are easier to
> do with CSS ;)



You're right. That's why everybody are using them. Net is full of css's.

:)



> I see you still didn't bother to comment that what ever garage crap site
> made as CSS instead of horrible tables. ;)


Horrible because of what?

Every moron can use them? And they do work?

That's the beauty of it.


Most computer nuts can't realize, that computers are designed to do
things. Not be served to.

In one episode of Star Trek Kirk went back in time and wanted to use a
computer. He commanded "Computer start". And computer didn't. Some smart
asses were laughing at him.

I don't think that was funny. Computer should and will start by a voice
command.

In the same way I laugh when people are saying that web design should be
made in Notepad.

Yeah... I would add, use abacus as well and welcome into Flinstone era.

Install Linux and sped few days how to put video card driver or mount
floppy disk.

;)

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#28: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 05:12:33 by Blinky the Shark

Henry wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> Henry wrote:

>>>You have entered a mad shark?s zone.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Hey!

> Yeah... Linux user!

That wasn't a Linux-user hey; that was a shark hey. :)

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263

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#29: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 05:22:15 by Mark Parnell

Previously in alt.html, "...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> said:

> So I can't search back
> anyway unless I unsubscribe and re subscribe and load up 1000s of headers,
> which I ain't gonna do, and don't feel others should have to do either.

http://groups.google.com/

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
"Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004

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#30: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 06:38:56 by Henry

Blinky the Shark wrote:
> Henry wrote:
>
>
>>Blinky the Shark wrote:

> That wasn't a Linux-user hey; that was a shark hey. :)


So what's that?

Linux Registered User 297263


;)


I'm not against Linux, however at this stage is not for me.

I have Xandros full version and still think to use on one machine just
to go to the net. I'm sick of updates, security patches, M$ patches and
Norton taking hostage on my machine, pretending that he is guarding me
against viruses. ;)

But it's to many hassles, like lack of drivers for my HDTV card,
Photoshop is not working, HEAPS of music programs I use etc.

Lazy always win!

As little effort, as possible with maximum effectiveness.

Computer should do work for me. It should be an extension to my brain.

I'm not going to serve him.

Going back to work...

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#31: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 06:47:01 by Henry

Mark Parnell wrote:
> Previously in alt.html, Henry <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> said:
>
>
>>If the husband hates his wife, installing for her Linux
>
>
> I installed Linux for my wife (who I most certainly don't hate), and she
> loves it.


Most likely she is browsing and using email. Virus and spyware free -
perfect choice, if you don't need to use something else, like HDTV card
or DVD burner.

Can you burn DVD's and movies on Linux?

Now I understand these calls about fonts. Fonts sux on Linux! When I
used Xandros I hated these fonts, some TT fonts were used but still was
a crap if compare to Windoze.

They were saying that font problems and higher fonts res they were going
to fix, I mean, better adoption to M$ TT fonts.

They've done it?

If yes, I could go back to Linux.

I hated these fonts so much...

No wonder some wants a bigger fonts because Linux...

;)

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#32: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 09:03:56 by Blinky the Shark

Henry wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> Henry wrote:

>>>Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> That wasn't a Linux-user hey; that was a shark hey. :)

> So what's that?

> Linux Registered User 297263

<sigh> Irrelevant to my lighthearted reply about "shark [whatever
you wrote, but that you've snipped]".

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Play Zork: http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/infocom/zork1.html
SOME commands: get, open, drop, directions e/n/s/w, climb, up,
down, look, read, inventory, hit/kill [object] with [object]...

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#33: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 09:07:54 by Blinky the Shark

Henry wrote:
> Mark Parnell wrote:
>> Previously in alt.html, Henry <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> said:

>>>If the husband hates his wife, installing for her Linux

>> I installed Linux for my wife (who I most certainly don't hate), and she
>> loves it.

> Most likely she is browsing and using email. Virus and spyware free -
> perfect choice, if you don't need to use something else, like HDTV card
> or DVD burner.

> Can you burn DVD's and movies on Linux?

Of course. And sync with your Palm, and use a scanner and digital
camera, and...well, golly, gee, it's not just life with the command line,
unless you wish that.

> Now I understand these calls about fonts. Fonts sux on Linux! When I
> used Xandros I hated these fonts, some TT fonts were used but still was
> a crap if compare to Windoze.

How many years ago was that?

> They were saying that font problems and higher fonts res they were going
> to fix, I mean, better adoption to M$ TT fonts.

> They've done it?

Yes.

> If yes, I could go back to Linux.

Nah, Linux will do just fine.

--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Play Zork: http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/infocom/zork1.html
SOME commands: get, open, drop, directions e/n/s/w, climb, up,
down, look, read, inventory, hit/kill [object] with [object]...

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#34: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 11:27:59 by Toby Inkster

Henry wrote:

> In the same way I laugh when people are saying that web design should be
> made in Notepad.

I don't think many (any?) of the regulars here use Notepad for web design.
There are plenty of better text editors out there. SciTE, Nedit and Nano
are my three favourites at the moment.

> Install Linux and sped few days how to put video card driver

The vast majority of video cards are autodetected in recent distros, with
roughly Windows XP grade reliability -- i.e. the occasional very new or
very obscure video card will fail, but most will work OK. Certainly better
than the hardware detection in, say, Windows NT where you nearly always
need to get out the manufacturer's disk before you can go above 640x480 at
256 colours.

> or mount floppy disk.

Nowadays most distros include supermount -- so that floppy disks, CDs and
DVDs are automatically mounted as soon as you put them in the drive.
Besides which, IME most computers are now shipping without floppy drives
these days.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

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#35: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-23 11:53:46 by Wyrm

"Henry" <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41a2b60a$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
> Wÿrm wrote:
<snip>

> Horrible because of what?

All that unnecessarily complex HTML there is no need for, that for a
starters. But I guess you need use some WYSIWYG tools so hand coding's out
of the question for you anyway so you never see all that crappy code mess.


<irrelevant crap snipped, don't babble, stick to the point>

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#36: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 00:05:52 by from_you

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:26:52 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org>
wrote:



>I have been doing Usenet in the year and a half. I am right on about some
>"members" of this newsgroup. I have looked in here more than I let on.

If the last sentence is true - then you would've been able to just
skip past the comments you felt weren't helpful or unwarranted - since
you already knew what some of them, in your observatory opinion, were
like.

>So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
>checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
>with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish, I
>feel it is a legitimate point of view.

Barbara has a point too in that some other threads, about the same
topic, have shared some posts you may found informative. Not everybody
that replied in those threads will reply to your thread on the same
topic - or with the exact same detailed information that may have been
shared before.

There have been some posts on this topic over the past few weeks and
months that may have some snippets of info that you were seeking. Just
that they were shared with someone else asking the same thing already
....

If it said
>was alt.html.professionas I wouldn't even be here

I doubt that - I've seen people try to join groups that were geared to
professionals due to feeling they could skate by or "were"
professionals.

With you asking about doing web desgin - even part-time - for others
in itself hints you do not consider yourself a newbie to HTML but
advanced from that point.

>I'd be searching for what headers?

If I were searching for posts, about this topic, then I wouldn't look
for headers. I would type in, at Google Groups, phrases like "doing
web design" "starting web design" - maybe trying words like freelance
and such too. Then I would scan the results, looking at the bits of
the posts that the abstract would share. Click on the ones that
sounded like they were discussing how someone could get their feet wet
entereing freelance web design thoughts ...

>So - my opinion is newgroups exist for exacltly that you don't
>have to research first !!

No, not really. Discussions primarily but not to help someone avoid or
not "having to" to do the research on their own either. Any help
shared is strictly voluntary and not the reason why this -or any
other- newsgroup exists [unless it has the word help in it's name].

Personally I've learned a lot from the people in this group - regulars
and non-regulars. More than what I feel I would've gotten elsewhere
... and all supplied voluntarily in response to others or during
debates or detailed discussions and,yes, even when they shared some
sarcasm. I actually find myself seeking out he longer threads first -
but that's just me.

And also when I subscribe to a newsgroup like
>I just did here, I don't have it load up every post available, I give it a
>finite number (like a weeks worth of headers).. So I can't search back
>anyway unless I unsubscribe and re subscribe and load up 1000s of headers,
>which I ain't gonna do, and don't feel others should have to do either.

No reason to! http://groups.google.com - archived copies of text posts
from this group, and others, back to 1995 or so I think.

>Also, I haven't been completely honest, I kinda acted as if I did not
>already have a 3rd party website writing program, but I do already have
>one, and am just now getting used to it. But I wanted pure feedback
>because I'll abandon this one (was only $50) if there is something better
>to look into...

It is the HTML that matters in the end - not the editor used by you.

Some $30 programs are just as good, in someone's hands, as the $100 or
pricier ones are. Just find one that you find comfortable and enjoy
using. :)

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#37: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 07:29:19 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, Dan Ruscoe quothed:

> > I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.
>
> Some clients have their hearts set on pointless flash intros. Often the
> best thing to do is give them what they want, include a 'skip intro'
> link and take their money.

True. And I'm not an anti-Flash extremo or anything; some people really
like Flash but it just isn't for me. Perhaps on hi-speed cable it'd be
okay (-although I really do prefer less crap when I'm browsing for info
or photos.)

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#38: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 07:34:52 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:

> I have been doing the Internet for a year and a half now after
> re-introducing myself to computing. I have become completely immersed and
> it is a wonderful hobby, and I spend lots of time in. I know quite a bit
> now in several aspects of computing. I am no dummy. You say one of the
> don't is this, and I say no, it is not. Not if all it takes is a few
> sentences for sure.
>
> I have been doing Usenet in the year and a half. I am right on about some
> "members" of this newsgroup. I have looked in here more than I let on. I
> know a bit more than I let on about website design, though still not very
> knowledgeable in a lot of it, and thus my post was legitimate. I felt I
> had to act this way or else get the "snub" again.
>
> So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
> checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
> with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish, I
> feel it is a legitimate point of view. I do not see it written down that
> it should be this way, I just happen to think not and you do. If it said
> was alt.html.professionas I wouldn't even be here and I wouldn't ask here.
> A far as I am concerned by the newsgeoup title name, utter complete
> beginners should be able to ask very basic stuff here, and get helpful
> anwsers. Not "go fish". At least should be "You have to learn just a few
> basics, start here and come back later once you've got a few thjings down:
> http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/
>
> And I understand this is a newsgroup - so in that light, My opinion of how
> to research a subject and yours are equally legit. So we have differing
> opinions about it. He is not the first to mention to others to look it up
> yourself, and I feel the same way about those replies too. Nothing is
> 100%, in a few cases are legit, not usually.
>
> I'd be searching for what headers?, And spending time reading each post I
> was searching, then trying another search criteria.., hoping it hit on my
> issue. So - my opinion is newgroups exist for exacltly that you don't
> have to research first !! And also when I subscribe to a newsgroup like
> I just did here, I don't have it load up every post available, I give it a
> finite number (like a weeks worth of headers).. So I can't search back
> anyway unless I unsubscribe and re subscribe and load up 1000s of headers,
> which I ain't gonna do, and don't feel others should have to do either.
>
> So we disagree. I spouted, you spouted. Where in the rules does it say
> you have to pre-research before you ask a question. Some suggest this of
> course. I am on the opposite fence of what a newsgroups function is.
>
> Also, I haven't been completely honest, I kinda acted as if I did not
> already have a 3rd party website writing program, but I do already have
> one, and am just now getting used to it. But I wanted pure feedback
> because I'll abandon this one (was only $50) if there is something better
> to look into... It is not a well known company that makes it. I just
> wanted to see if I could get away from telling a possible client that I
> might write for to buy the same program I used to maintain the site. I
> don't like a few things it handles certain ways. Kind of mystical writing
> all scripts. There should be a lesser $$ "maintenance" software package,
> but there is not. Also why waste time training myself with it, if
> eventually I would move beyond the "individual & small business" stage..
> It is all speculation now as I have not yet written anything for anyone.
>
> Here's what I've done so far. Didn't know what "HTML" was 6 months ago.
> Learned from websites like davesite - not asking here - so I am not that
> Fxxkin lazy. New site new name. Abandoned my old site name for
> something more generic (ran a Blacknova Traders web-based game website
> written in notepad & HTML only my son wanted - no Javascript or any other
> languages, and still am not real knowledgeable with the java, though can
> copy-paste and try).
>
> In case anyone is interested in my effort thus far with a $50 3rd party
> program : http://www.kicknet.net Like I said - trying to break into the
> individuals or small business as a part time occasional gig.. Don't be
> too critical.

Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
expostulation? That's the current record.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#39: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 07:51:54 by Duende

While sitting in a puddle neredbojias scribbled in the mud:

> Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
> expostulation? That's the current record.

Why did you count them?

--
Avoid reality at all costs.

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#40: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 07:54:17 by rf

neredbojias rebutted:

<snip expostulation>

> Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
> expostulation?

<checks webster's>
ex.pos.tu.la.tion n. an expostulating; earnest protest or remonstrance.

Phew. For a minute there I thought you were just making up these words :-)

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#41: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 08:03:26 by Duende

While sitting in a puddle rf scribbled in the mud:

> neredbojias rebutted:
>
> <snip expostulation>
>
>> Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
>> expostulation?
>
> <checks webster's>
> ex.pos.tu.la.tion n. an expostulating; earnest protest or remonstrance.
>
> Phew. For a minute there I thought you were just making up these words :-)
>

Just because neredbojias has a weird name does'nt mean he's dumb. :)

--
Avoid reality at all costs.

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#42: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 08:31:15 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, Duende quothed:

> While sitting in a puddle neredbojias scribbled in the mud:
>
> > Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
> > expostulation? That's the current record.
>
> Why did you count them?

The repetition, I guess. That's what I do in lieu of a sex life.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#43: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 08:34:17 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:

> neredbojias rebutted:
>
> <snip expostulation>
>
> > Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
> > expostulation?
>
> <checks webster's>
> ex.pos.tu.la.tion n. an expostulating; earnest protest or remonstrance.
>
> Phew. For a minute there I thought you were just making up these words :-)

I did and some guy put it in a book and disseminated it without my
permission. However, I suppose you could say it's a bit like getting
laid vicariously.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#44: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 08:35:18 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, Duende quothed:

> > Phew. For a minute there I thought you were just making up these words :-)
> >
>
> Just because neredbojias has a weird name does'nt mean he's dumb. :)

Yeahbut if I'm so smart why ain't I rich??

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#45: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 08:59:29 by rf

Duende wrote:
> While sitting in a puddle neredbojias scribbled in the mud:
>
> > Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
> > expostulation? That's the current record.
>
> Why did you count them?

Perhaps because of the difference in directional emphasis between the word
"I" and other words like "you" and "they".

As in: "*I* want this" as against "what do *you* want?"

Extrapolate this into web design:

"I code my page like this because *I* like it."
as against
"I code my page like this because I have viewers and *they* might like it."

See the different direction? In this instance I [sic] think it is a case of

"*I* want usenet to work this way."

There is also the reverse of the "you" word as in "*You* should use usenet
the way *I* want it to be used."

<aside>
Of course the word "they" has other uses as well, as a catch all for what
*I* can not do. This is usually accompanied with the word "should" as in:

"*They* should make CSS easier to understand."

"*They* should make browsers all the same so *I* don't have to consider
cross browser compatibility."
Note that this one is a double whammy, it combines the mythical "they" with
the self centric "I".

"*They* should end world famine and ensure everybody has an above average
income" [didn't a certain ex US president say something like that once?]
</aside>

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#46: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 09:02:39 by rf

neredbojias
> Without quill or qualm, Duende quothed:

> > Just because neredbojias has a weird name does'nt mean he's dumb. :)
>
> Yeahbut if I'm so smart why ain't I rich??

Nobody can remember how to spell your name so they can fill in the cheque
correctly?

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#47: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 09:06:40 by rf

neredbojias countered:
> Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:

> > Phew. For a minute there I thought you were just making up these words
:-)
>
> I did and some guy put it in a book and disseminated it without my
> permission. However, I suppose you could say it's a bit like getting
> laid vicariously.

I dunno about vicarious but these days getting laid is serendipitous.

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#48: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 12:29:04 by Lauri Raittila

in alt.html, C.W. wrote:

> It is the HTML that matters in the end - not the editor used by you.
>
> Some $30 programs are just as good, in someone's hands, as the $100 or
> pricier ones are. Just find one that you find comfortable and enjoy
> using. :)

And best stuff is often free. Apache, PHP...
Only thing that costs money when doing website is hosting...



--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>

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#49: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-24 23:04:55 by Duende

While sitting in a puddle rf scribbled in the mud:

> Duende wrote:
>> While sitting in a puddle neredbojias scribbled in the mud:
>>
>> > Do you know that you used the word "I" 56 times in the above
>> > expostulation? That's the current record.
>>
>> Why did you count them?
>
> Perhaps because of the difference in directional emphasis between the
word
> "I" and other words like "you" and "they".
>
> As in: "*I* want this" as against "what do *you* want?"
>
> Extrapolate this into web design:
>
> "I code my page like this because *I* like it."
> as against
> "I code my page like this because I have viewers and *they* might like
it."
>
> See the different direction? In this instance I [sic] think it is a case
of
>
> "*I* want usenet to work this way."
>
> There is also the reverse of the "you" word as in "*You* should use
usenet
> the way *I* want it to be used."
>
> <aside>
> Of course the word "they" has other uses as well, as a catch all for what
> *I* can not do. This is usually accompanied with the word "should" as in:
>
> "*They* should make CSS easier to understand."
>
> "*They* should make browsers all the same so *I* don't have to consider
> cross browser compatibility."
> Note that this one is a double whammy, it combines the mythical "they"
with
> the self centric "I".
>
> "*They* should end world famine and ensure everybody has an above average
> income" [didn't a certain ex US president say something like that once?]
> </aside>
>

More counting for neredbojias?

--
Avoid reality at all costs.

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#50: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-25 00:14:32 by rf

Duende wrote:

> > "*They* should end world famine and ensure everybody has an above
average
> > income" [didn't a certain ex US president say something like that once?]
> > </aside>

> More counting for neredbojias?

Exactly. He should be counting *all* the words, not just the little ones.

--
Cheers
Richard.

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#51: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-26 03:57:52 by wayne

Henry wrote:
<--snip-->
> I don't think that was funny. Computer should and will start by a voice
> command.
>
> In the same way I laugh when people are saying that web design should be
> made in Notepad.
>
> Yeah... I would add, use abacus as well and welcome into Flinstone era.
>
> Install Linux and sped few days how to put video card driver or mount
> floppy disk.
>
> ;)

Most users have had twenty years to learn MS commands.

You install Linux and then are not happy because you are not immediately
proficient?

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#52: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-26 04:00:06 by wayne

Mark Parnell wrote:
> Previously in alt.html, Henry <smcoptyltd@hotmail.com> said:
>
>
>>If the husband hates his wife, installing for her Linux
>
>
> I installed Linux for my wife (who I most certainly don't hate), and she
> loves it.
>
Ditto! I don't have to speed thousands of dollars to purchase software
either.

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#53: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-26 09:50:37 by Toby Inkster

Wayne wrote:

> Most users have had twenty years to learn MS commands.
>
> You install Linux and then are not happy because you are not immediately
> proficient?

My preferred analogy is the pencil.

Measuring from the moment you picked up your first pencil to the moment
you could write with "good" handwriting (whatever that is) and correct
spelling, how long did it take you to learn to use a pencil? Twelve years?
Perhaps longer?

A pencil is just a stick of graphite surrounded by a bit of wood. A
typical modern desktop computer is, shall we say, somewhat more
complicated.

Do you really expect to sit at a computer first time and understand how to
use it straight away? If so, then why the fuck did it take you so long to
learn to use a pencil?

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

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#54: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-26 21:26:22 by Duende

While sitting in a puddle Toby Inkster scribbled in the mud:

> Measuring from the moment you picked up your first pencil to the moment
> you could write with "good" handwriting (whatever that is) and correct
> spelling, how long did it take you to learn to use a pencil? Twelve years?
> Perhaps longer?

Must gave been about 4 when I first picked up a pincil. Still can't spell or
write good enough so anybody can figure out what I wrote. Guess I'm just a
slow learner.

--
Duende (irregular)
Friends help you move.
Real friends help you move bodies.

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#55: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-27 12:08:20 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:

<previous soliloquy>

I dare/defy you to say that verbally.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#56: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-27 12:09:21 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:

> neredbojias
> > Without quill or qualm, Duende quothed:
>
> > > Just because neredbojias has a weird name does'nt mean he's dumb. :)
> >
> > Yeahbut if I'm so smart why ain't I rich??
>
> Nobody can remember how to spell your name so they can fill in the cheque
> correctly?

I'd be happy to phone them at the happy moment. (Collect.)

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#57: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-27 12:12:02 by Neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:

> neredbojias countered:
> > Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:
>
> > > Phew. For a minute there I thought you were just making up these words
> :-)
> >
> > I did and some guy put it in a book and disseminated it without my
> > permission. However, I suppose you could say it's a bit like getting
> > laid vicariously.
>
> I dunno about vicarious but these days getting laid is serendipitous.

Actually, it just gives me shortness-of-breath and a deplorable feeling
of futility. If women want equal rights they should do more of the work.

--
Neredbojias
Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.

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#58: Re: 3rd party designers & gigs

Posted on 2004-11-27 20:27:30 by Duende

While sitting in a puddle neredbojias scribbled in the mud:

> Without quill or qualm, rf quothed:
>
>> neredbojias
>> > Without quill or qualm, Duende quothed:
>>
>> > > Just because neredbojias has a weird name does'nt mean he's dumb. :)
>> >
>> > Yeahbut if I'm so smart why ain't I rich??
>>
>> Nobody can remember how to spell your name so they can fill in the cheque
>> correctly?
>
> I'd be happy to phone them at the happy moment. (Collect.)
>

But they would just hang up after hearing your name thinking it was a very
dirty word.

--
Duende (irregular)
Friends help you move.
Real friends help you move bodies.

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