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#1: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 02:32:25 by Ashley Sheridan

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but no book I know of in English reads like that

unless you prefer to read bottom to top

which makes it very difficult to read afterwards

because all the comments on the thread appear out of order

Top posting doesn't make sense




Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk



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#2: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 02:34:41 by Daevid Vincent

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....and where's the stupid little netiquette link about hijacking another
thread? ;-)
oh, here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DonDiego/Thread_hijacking
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#threading

That bottom posting crap is so antiquated and outdated my dinosaur doesn't
even follow it.

Top posting is efficient and useful for everyone involved in the thread.

If someone is not smart enough to realize they're reading the end of the
thread, and have to scroll to the bottom of it one time to catch up, then
to me that's natural selection and they just don't deserve to be
participating. Go read a coloring book or watch WoW!Wow!Wubbzy! or
something equally trite because clearly their brain can't grasp basic
concepts even.


_____

From: Yousif Masoud [mailto:yousif.masoud@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:27 PM
To: Daevid Vincent
Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?



P.S. I HATE bottom posting. WTF do I have to scroll all the way down past
hundreds of useless lines just to read a "me too" or some other comment. If
it's at the top, I can simply just keep moving from header to header in
Outlook (or your email GUI of choice). DELETE as I go. Easy. Simple.
Efficient.



http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html


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#3: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 03:17:42 by Robert Cummings

I'm sorry, but I've never had problem reading backwards in time through
information. One merely understands that a piece of information is
dependent on the next. Seriously, hasn't anyone else ever read history
starting with now and then working their way backwards? It's just
reverse chronological order!

:B

Cheers,
Rob.


Ashley Sheridan wrote:
> but no book I know of in English reads like that
>
> unless you prefer to read bottom to top
>
> which makes it very difficult to read afterwards
>
> because all the comments on the thread appear out of order
>
> Top posting doesn't make sense
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ash
> http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
>
>
>

--
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Application and Templating Framework for PHP

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#4: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 03:45:45 by Nilesh Govindrajan

On 03/25/2010 07:04 AM, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> ...and where's the stupid little netiquette link about hijacking another
> thread? ;-)
> oh, here it is:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DonDiego/Thread_hijacking
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#threading
>
> That bottom posting crap is so antiquated and outdated my dinosaur doesn't
> even follow it.
>
> Top posting is efficient and useful for everyone involved in the thread.
>
> If someone is not smart enough to realize they're reading the end of the
> thread, and have to scroll to the bottom of it one time to catch up, then
> to me that's natural selection and they just don't deserve to be
> participating. Go read a coloring book or watch WoW!Wow!Wubbzy! or
> something equally trite because clearly their brain can't grasp basic
> concepts even.
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Yousif Masoud [mailto:yousif.masoud@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: Daevid Vincent
> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
>
>
>
> P.S. I HATE bottom posting. WTF do I have to scroll all the way down past
> hundreds of useless lines just to read a "me too" or some other comment. If
> it's at the top, I can simply just keep moving from header to header in
> Outlook (or your email GUI of choice). DELETE as I go. Easy. Simple.
> Efficient.
>
>
>
> http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
>
>

Bottom posting helps in users who are not participating in the thread
from the start and would like to do so.

Consider that you weren't able to check your mail for 2-3 days. A mail
has come which has an extremely interesting subject.

If everyone top posts, you cannot read the history of the thread. If
everyone bottom posts, you can read the history, know everything about
the problem and then answer, instead of just popping up "What is this
thread about?"

--
Nilesh Govindarajan
Site & Server Administrator
www.itech7.com

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#5: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 07:28:31 by Rene Veerman

+1 for top-posting..

proper nettiquette is to put replies beneath the quotes you're
replying to, and deleting the rest.

ultimately this 'rule' of bottomposting is laziness of the ones who
like that style of quoting.
they want everyone to conform to their favorite method, so they can
read more efficiently.

however, given that this is a tips-list, i'd like this bottom posting
rule removed from the mailinglist rules.
it's been used yesterday as a way to attack me on a second front
during a heated debate about the future evolution of php
(threading+shared-mem).. up until yesterday, nobody complained about
my top-posting, because the tips i give are apparently considered
useful.

And thats the point eh? The quality of the tips?

Seriously, programmers who are not flexible enough to accept tips in a
top _or_ bottom _or_ mixed format....
It sounds really silly to me.

Pushing all other humans to use your habits is silly when you can code
an addon for any email program that puts things in the right order.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:34 AM, Daevid Vincent <daevid@daevid.com> wrote:
> ...and where's the stupid little netiquette link about hijacking another
> thread? ;-)
> oh, here it is:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DonDiego/Thread_hijacking
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#threading
>
> That bottom posting crap is so antiquated and outdated my dinosaur doesn'=
t
> even follow it.
>
> Top posting is efficient and useful for everyone involved in the thread.
>
> If someone is not smart enough to realize they're reading the end of the
> thread, and have to scroll to the bottom of it one time to catch up, then
> to me that's natural selection and they just don't deserve to be
> participating. Go read a coloring book or watch WoW!Wow!Wubbzy! or
> something equally trite because clearly their brain can't grasp basic
> concepts even.
>
>
> =A0_____
>
> From: Yousif Masoud [mailto:yousif.masoud@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: Daevid Vincent
> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
>
>
>
> P.S. I HATE bottom posting. WTF do I have to scroll all the way down past
> hundreds of useless lines just to read a "me too" or some other comment. =
If
> it's at the top, I can simply just keep moving from header to header in
> Outlook (or your email GUI of choice). DELETE as I go. Easy. Simple.
> Efficient.
>
>
>
> http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
>
>

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#6: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 07:43:59 by Robert Cummings

Rene Veerman wrote:
> +1 for top-posting..
>
> proper nettiquette is to put replies beneath the quotes you're
> replying to, and deleting the rest.
>
> ultimately this 'rule' of bottomposting is laziness of the ones who
> like that style of quoting.
> they want everyone to conform to their favorite method, so they can
> read more efficiently.

Adherence to standards generally makes lives easier. Since the
netiquette document likely pre-dates your cognitive awareness of the
Internet, I think you're in poor company to ignore it. Iconoclasm can be
a fun lifestyle, but sometimes iconoclasts are just pricks.

Cheers,
Rob.
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#7: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 08:38:00 by Lester Caine

Robert Cummings wrote:
> Rene Veerman wrote:
>> +1 for top-posting..
-1 to compensate .....

>> proper nettiquette is to put replies beneath the quotes you're
>> replying to, and deleting the rest.
>>
>> ultimately this 'rule' of bottomposting is laziness of the ones who
>> like that style of quoting.
>> they want everyone to conform to their favorite method, so they can
>> read more efficiently.

Lists have their own rules for consistency. It is simply discourteous not to
follow those rules just because you do not like them.

> Adherence to standards generally makes lives easier. Since the
> netiquette document likely pre-dates your cognitive awareness of the
> Internet, I think you're in poor company to ignore it. Iconoclasm can be
> a fun lifestyle, but sometimes iconoclasts are just pricks.

I would have no problem with top posters if they BOTHERED to actual read what
they ARE quoting. Have a look at some of the threads on the likes of yahoogroups
where every copy of the advertising is included in the reply. Here is not quite
so bad, although the security mesages included with some sigs add to the noise.

We have lost the best FUD from Daevid ...
> That bottom posting crap is so antiquated and outdated my dinosaur doesn't
> even follow it.

BOTH methods have been around as long as one another and BOTH have a place if
used properly. As far as *I* am concerned, top posters should have 'autoquote'
simply switched off! And YES bottom posters should kill the quoting if only
including a 'me to' line!

What is really needed is a GOOD email client that does a proper job ( including
replying to the list automatically to get around the other anoyance of having to
'reply all' on lists like this and include several direct addresses - but that
is another thread! ). I have all of my email correspondence back to 1998 ( and
some well before that ) filed and search-able so I can go back and check things
when I need to. Yes 95% is probably crap, and some day I will destroy a few
folders, but I can scan any thread and see what has gone on, so I only need
appropriate quoting - INLINE!

Rule one should be don't include anything AFTER what you have written unless it
IS actually necessary. Don't quote just because someone may not be following the
thread.

( And I make no apology for the upper case as I am a dinosaur who found things a
lot easier with text messages when teletype machines added lower case characters
:) In those days NOTHING unnecessary was included )

--
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-----------------------------
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#8: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 10:27:40 by Daniel Egeberg

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 07:28, Rene Veerman <rene7705@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 for top-posting..
>
> proper nettiquette is to put replies beneath the quotes you're
> replying to, and deleting the rest.

So why are you not doing it?

> ultimately this 'rule' of bottomposting is laziness of the ones who
> like that style of quoting.
> they want everyone to conform to their favorite method, so they can
> read more efficiently.

It's not laziness. It's just easier reading from top to bottom than
having to jump around in the text like you have to when people are top
posting.

On the contrary, I would say it's more lazy just dumping the entire
email you're replying to on the bottom without trimming things that
are irrelevant to your reply, advertisements (die Hotmail!), mailing
list footers, signatures, etc.

> however, given that this is a tips-list, i'd like this bottom posting
> rule removed from the mailinglist rules.
> it's been used yesterday as a way to attack me on a second front
> during a heated debate about the future evolution of php
> (threading+shared-mem).. up until yesterday, nobody complained about
> my top-posting, because the tips i give are apparently considered
> useful.
>
> And thats the point eh? The quality of the tips?

The point is that it's easier to read correspondence when things are
formatted properly with *inline* quoting. This becomes even more
important on mailing lists where there are multiple participants, and
on threads like the one you are referring to that is now up to 228
replies.

> Seriously, programmers who are not flexible enough to accept tips in a
> top _or_ bottom _or_ mixed format....
> It sounds really silly to me.

It has nothing to do with flexibility. It's easier reading inline
posted replies than top posted replies. That's how quoting works all
other places as well. It also makes it easier to address multiple
points in an email when you are inline posting. It's very clear what
you are referring to.

Any proper client will differentiate visually between quotes and and
non-quotes, so if you can remember *all* the emails in the thread you
can just skip over the quotes.

> Pushing all other humans to use your habits is silly when you can code
> an addon for any email program that puts things in the right order.

Sorry, that's just ridiculous. Why should we code a plugin that fixes
your emails to put them in the right order when you can just do it
from the start? You're even acknowledging that you're posting in the
wrong order now.

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#9: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 10:35:39 by rpjday

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Rene Veerman wrote:

> +1 for top-posting..

*sigh*. you're joking, right? you're seriously telling me that
there are people who are still sufficiently ignorant and childish that
they're still fighting this top- versus bottom-posting war?

the war is over. the consensus is that bottom-posting, accompanied
by sufficient trimming of extraneous material, is the norm. it's
accepted. it's documented. it's the standard. if you can't deal
with that, then i suggest you find another medium for communication.

honestly, i can't take another one of these idiotic top- versus
bottom-posting debates. while this mailing list has been immensely
useful so far, i'm unsubscribing. when the whiny children on this
list have either grown up or moved on, let me know. life is too short
to fight these same bullshit battles over and over again.

rday
--

============================================================ ============
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry.

Web page: http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
============================================================ ============

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#10: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 11:59:37 by Ashley Sheridan

--=-UpnooiwzDunP53OGbgvX
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 08:28 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote:


> proper nettiquette is to put replies beneath the quotes you're
> replying to, and deleting the rest.
>
> ultimately this 'rule' of bottomposting is laziness of the ones who
> like that style of quoting.
> they want everyone to conform to their favorite method, so they can
> read more efficiently.

It's not laziness, it's netiquette. There are rules for this mailing
list, and following them helps everyone. You're blatantly ignoring the
rules in an 'I know best attitude again'.

>
> however, given that this is a tips-list, i'd like this bottom posting
> rule removed from the mailinglist rules.
> it's been used yesterday as a way to attack me on a second front
> during a heated debate about the future evolution of php

Not every person who disagrees with you is doing so out of spite to you.
There isn't a secret group of people with a vendetta against you, just
people trying to put their point of view across. The top-vs-bottom
posting isn't an issue that needs to be discussed though. It's been
in-place since the beginning of the list, and for the main, people
conform to it. It's the exceptions that cause problems and make the
threads harder to follow.

What gives you the right to demand it's changed? I've been posting to
the list for well over a year now, and even I wouldn't presume to start
changing rules just because I didn't like them or I was too lazy to
bother with them.


> Seriously, programmers who are not flexible enough to accept tips in a
> top _or_ bottom _or_ mixed format....
> It sounds really silly to me.

This list isn't just for programmers. It's for professionals and
beginners alike. Surely it makes sense to make the list as accessible as
possible for people?

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk



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#11: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 12:58:35 by David McGlone

> On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 08:28 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote:

>
> This list isn't just for programmers. It's for professionals and
> beginners alike. Surely it makes sense to make the list as accessible as
> possible for people?

I am somewhat still a beginner and signed up on this list about 5 days ago,
hoping I could get some valuable insight from it.

--
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David M.
I have been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that
I had nowhere else to go.

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#12: RE: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 13:12:19 by Jay Blanchard

[snip]
....like any good bottom poster should....
[/snip]

RTFA's, it has been discussed ad nauseum. Let's get back to PHP.


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#13: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 14:10:42 by Floyd Resler

Absolutely top posting is the most efficient way of doing it! If I =
need to see what the thread is all about, I have no problems starting =
from the bottom and working my way up. It would be nice if everyone =
adopted top posting, though. Trying to read threads where postings are =
at the top and bottom makes it really difficult to follow!

Take care,
Floyd

On Mar 24, 2010, at 9:34 PM, Daevid Vincent wrote:

> ...and where's the stupid little netiquette link about hijacking =
another
> thread? ;-)
> oh, here it is:=20
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DonDiego/Thread_hijacking
> http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#threading
>=20
> That bottom posting crap is so antiquated and outdated my dinosaur =
doesn't
> even follow it.
>=20
> Top posting is efficient and useful for everyone involved in the =
thread.=20
>=20
> If someone is not smart enough to realize they're reading the end of =
the
> thread, and have to scroll to the bottom of it one time to catch up, =
then
> to me that's natural selection and they just don't deserve to be
> participating. Go read a coloring book or watch WoW!Wow!Wubbzy! or
> something equally trite because clearly their brain can't grasp basic
> concepts even.
>=20
>=20
> _____ =20
>=20
> From: Yousif Masoud [mailto:yousif.masoud@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: Daevid Vincent
> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever "grow up" and have threading?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> P.S. I HATE bottom posting. WTF do I have to scroll all the way down =
past
> hundreds of useless lines just to read a "me too" or some other =
comment. If
> it's at the top, I can simply just keep moving from header to header =
in
> Outlook (or your email GUI of choice). DELETE as I go. Easy. Simple.
> Efficient.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html=20
>=20


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#14: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 14:48:27 by Lester Caine

Floyd Resler wrote:
> Absolutely top posting is the most efficient way of doing it! If I need to see what the thread is all about, I have no problems starting from the bottom and working my way up. It would be nice if everyone adopted top posting, though. Trying to read threads where postings are at the top and bottom makes it really difficult to follow!

So you claim, I find that it is most UNPRODUCTIVE!

But as we have already said - the RULE for this list is bottom posting since as
you rightly say mixing it up is making things even more unproductive. If you
must campain for a CHANGE to the rules please at least be courteous and follow
the rules until there IS a consensus to change that rule. But the current
consensus IS to stop debating it at all and leave the rule in place :)

--
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-----------------------------
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L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
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#15: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 16:44:00 by Floyd Resler

On Mar 25, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Lester Caine wrote:

> Floyd Resler wrote:
>> Absolutely top posting is the most efficient way of doing it! If I =
need to see what the thread is all about, I have no problems starting =
from the bottom and working my way up. It would be nice if everyone =
adopted top posting, though. Trying to read threads where postings are =
at the top and bottom makes it really difficult to follow!
>=20
> So you claim, I find that it is most UNPRODUCTIVE!
>=20
> But as we have already said - the RULE for this list is bottom posting =
since as you rightly say mixing it up is making things even more =
unproductive. If you must campain for a CHANGE to the rules please at =
least be courteous and follow the rules until there IS a consensus to =
change that rule. But the current consensus IS to stop debating it at =
all and leave the rule in place :)
>=20

Sounds good to me!

Take care,
Floyd


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#16: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 17:22:31 by TedD

At 6:34 PM -0700 3/24/10, Daevid Vincent wrote:
-snip-

You didn't used to be so difficult, what changed?

For me it's preferable to select windmills that are in my best
interest to tilt. Otherwise, what's the point?

Cheers,

tedd

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#17: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 18:09:27 by Paul M Foster

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:22:31PM -0400, tedd wrote:

> At 6:34 PM -0700 3/24/10, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> -snip-
>
> You didn't used to be so difficult, what changed?

<snip>

Oh no, he gets testy from time to time.

Paul

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#18: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 18:40:42 by Daniel Brown

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 22:45, Nilesh Govindarajan <lists@itech7.com> wrote:
> Bottom posting helps in users who are not participating in the thread from
> the start and would like to do so.

Particularly for uniformity for archival purposes.

As has been discussed time and time again, there are many
preferences for top-versus-bottom. Those arguments are not without
merit, but the fact is that, for the lists operated by php.net, the
rules[1] clearly state that bottom-posting is the way to go. And the
biggest reason for this is not conformity with antiquated procedures,
but rather for uniformity and accessibility. It's a disaster when you
read through some newsgroups and archives, particularly for
non-English-native folks. It's no wonder we receive so many of the
same questions, especially from novices and newbies: why should you
need to learn how to navigate through a conversation to get a simple
answer when you can just bug the folks who can answer it for you
directly? The unfortunate side-effect with non-conformity to the
rules is that, then, folks who come here to ask questions are referred
to the archives and flamed for not doing so in the first place.

The fact is, that rule will not be changed. And it's not to take
away your right to democracy in the community, it's because it's a
very purposeful rule. Those who choose to ignore it, even knowing the
detrimental effects it has on present and future generations of
developers are unfortunately looking at things in a very short-sighted
manner. Yes, your words and assistance to the community today are
guaranteed to be read by another developer a decade or more from now.
Think about the great impact you're having beyond your own useful
years. That is not to say by any means that I think it's an
intentional short-sightedness, or that I consider anyone here to
personally be short-sighted, but when one puts personal preference
over the benefit of his or her peers in the community, that is
completely counter to the spirit of what we aim to accomplish here on
a daily basis --- indeed, counter to the very spirit of open source.

It's understandable that everyone has a preference for positioning
within Internet messages. This is because you have a choice.
Thinking of instant messaging clients, you likely don't even consider
the confusion that would result if there were a choice of where your
message would be posted there. Why? Because you're reading the
messages as they stream in, in real-time, without [much] delay. The
same is true in archives; there is no hours-long - even days-long -
delay between messages. Click a link or scroll down the page and,
unless you're cursed with a 2400bps Commodore 64 connection, it's a
matter of seconds or microseconds before the next message is
displayed. The time to decipher where the discussion begins anew in
the latest message can sometimes take longer --- especially for those
who fail to trim out unnecessary and repetitive information, and
doubly for those who quote improperly and begin their reply after the
final carat of the previous message (this is happening frequently
between this thread and the one that spawned it).

Choice is great. If it weren't for choices, you wouldn't be here.
If, in fact, you were physically here and all choices leading up to
your choice of programming language were still in line, there's a
very, very, very likely chance that you wouldn't have chosen PHP, and
would thus not be participating in this thread. The reason behind
that is the sheer number of competing languages. The difference is
that, at least for the time being, you *prefer* PHP, and have made the
*choice* to utilize it. Further, you *chose* to become part of the
group. You weren't drafted against your will.

As such, you *choose* to adhere to the rules set forth if for no
other reason than common courtesy, and professional and mutual
respect. It matters nil if you respect the individual or the rule
itself, but you understand that you're part of something that is far
bigger than you. In all honesty, that alone should humble folks
enough to agree to abide by the rules: the fact that, long after you
have ceased to participate within the community for one reason or
other, your words and wisdom will teach thousands of people of whom
you'll never even be aware.... yet they will be aware of you, and will
be appreciative of your contributions. You are all teachers, every
single one of you, regardless of whether or not you choose yet to
accept that, or how seriously you take the role.

The bottom line is that, not only is it the preference of the
majority, the accepted manner for the majority of those who remain,
and the rule of this list, it is just good, common courtesy. For
those who use a mail client such as Outlook Express or a derivative,
clone, or competing client, keep in mind that the very first Internet
messages sent on ARPANET, et al, were sent top-to-bottom. It's only
in the last decade that things have been formatted in such a way with
particular software that the presentation became easier - thus
preferential - to top-post.

Is it worth continuing the argument? Probably not. I'm sure we
all - well, okay, we MOSTLY - have better ways to spend our time.
Will the argument continue, and then be reborn again and again?
That's a guarantee. A more futile endeavor would be to try to quell
it from continuing.

However, keeping in mind that your role as a mentor here does come
with some responsibilities you may or may not like (and believe me,
there are many of which we could commiserate --- feel free to start a
thread on that as well), perhaps the best option is simply to say, "I
HATE it this way, but I understand that it really does benefit others,
so I can suck it up (and bitch about it now and again to remind folks
that I hate it)." It's small sacrifices, even when it barely impacts
the sacrificer, that keep morale high in a group and add to the
respect you receive from your peers. Whether or not one actively
strives to earn the respect of others doesn't impact the rewarding
feeling they receive when they realize that they have, in fact, earned
such.

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#19: Re: Top vs. Bottom Posting.

Posted on 2010-03-25 18:43:43 by Daniel Brown

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 13:40, Daniel Brown <danbrown@php.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 22:45, Nilesh Govindarajan <lists@itech7.com> wro=
te:
>> Bottom posting helps in users who are not participating in the thread fr=
om
>> the start and would like to do so.
>
> =A0 =A0As has been discussed time and time again, there are many
> preferences for top-versus-bottom. =A0Those arguments are not without
> merit, but the fact is that, for the lists operated by php.net, the
> rules[1] clearly state that bottom-posting is the way to go.

There I go, getting all long-winded and Dan'ing up the thread so
much that I forget my appendices. I'd forget my appendages as well,
if I didn't clumsily bump them into things frequently enough to remind
myself to drag them with me.

^1: http://php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES

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#20: RE: Top vs. Bottom Posting

Posted on 2010-03-26 02:50:11 by Daevid Vincent

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperling@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: Daevid Vincent; php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] Top vs. Bottom Posting.
>
> At 6:34 PM -0700 3/24/10, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> -snip-
>
> You didn't used to be so difficult, what changed?
>
> For me it's preferable to select windmills that are in my best
> interest to tilt. Otherwise, what's the point?
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd

(look I'm bottom posting!)

I wasn't trying to be difficult! Honest!

Yousif hijacked my thread to tell me to bottom post. I did the right thing
IMHO, and split to a brand new message/thread (to keep the 'thread' thread
on track), with relevant subject line, and gave my retort as to why I don't
agree and why I prefer top posting. I didn't intend for it to be the same
tired top/bottom post argument we've seen numerous times in the decade or
so I've been on this list.

But I have to say, I'm a little bit honored and flattered even, that the
legendary Tedd Sperling even knows who I am let alone takes note of how I
"used to be". :) That makes my day!

d


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#21: RE: Top vs. Bottom Posting

Posted on 2010-03-26 14:33:41 by TedD

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperling@gmail.com]
> >
> > You didn't used to be so difficult, what changed?
>
>(look I'm bottom posting!)
>
>I wasn't trying to be difficult! Honest!
>
>Yousif hijacked my thread to tell me to bottom post. I did the right thing
>IMHO, and split to a brand new message/thread (to keep the 'thread' thread
>on track), with relevant subject line, and gave my retort as to why I don't
>agree and why I prefer top posting. I didn't intend for it to be the same
>tired top/bottom post argument we've seen numerous times in the decade or
>so I've been on this list.
>
>But I have to say, I'm a little bit honored and flattered even, that the
>legendary Tedd Sperling even knows who I am let alone takes note of how I
>"used to be". :) That makes my day!
>
>d

Daevid:

I'm not a legend -- I'm just a programmer trying to keep up.

As for my comment -- you've been around long enough to prove your
worth and provide ample support for your various positions, I just
found it odd that you would waste your talent tilting such trivial
windmills? I concluded that something else must be at play here. As
is all too common, I may be wrong.

Cheers,

tedd
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-------
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