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#1: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 11:23:07 by David McGlone

Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?

--
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David M.


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#2: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 11:34:46 by Michiel Sikma

--0016e6d566699f46f10484bbe74d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 21 April 2010 11:23, David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net> wrote:

>
> Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
>
> --
> Blessings,
> David M.
>
>
Is it? I didn't notice. I just use "reply to all" which puts the list in the
CC, and that works just fine for me.

Michiel

--0016e6d566699f46f10484bbe74d--

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#3: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 11:36:37 by Ashley Sheridan

--=-f7RlIY2mlztXTJAE2/ZR
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 05:23 -0400, David McGlone wrote:

> Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
>
> --
> Blessings,
> David M.
>
>


It's just standard list format I thought. A decent email client will
recognise the email is a mailing list one and give you the options to
reply to the list instead of using reply to all.

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk



--=-f7RlIY2mlztXTJAE2/ZR--

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#4: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 11:41:30 by Daniel Egeberg

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:23, David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net> wrote:
> Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?

Try having a look at the headers. These are the headers on the mail you sent:

From: David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net>
To: PHP <php-general@lists.php.net>

It is standard for an email client to reply to the email in the "From"
header (unless "Reply-To" is present). Reply all generally makes your
client send a CC to all the other recipients as well.

--
Daniel Egeberg

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#5: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:08:47 by Karl DeSaulniers

Hi,
I think the problem or the bad form, if you will, is using reply-all.
All you need to do is hit reply and it should just send a message
back to the list. Everyone gets the list messages.
If the reply-to is not set, type in the list email in the to and the
reply-to in your message
and that should set the stage for a reply-to to be present in the
thread.
I for one don't know how many email duplicates I have had to delete
because someone hit reply-all.
Gets messy on big threads, but I manage.

Be nice if that wasn't so. :)

Best,

Karl


On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 05:23 -0400, David McGlone wrote:
>
>> Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
>>
>> --
>> Blessings,
>> David M.
>>
>>
>
>
> It's just standard list format I thought. A decent email client will
> recognise the email is a mailing list one and give you the options to
> reply to the list instead of using reply to all.
>
> Thanks,
> Ash
> http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
>
>

Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com


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#6: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:33:34 by David McGlone

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 11:34 +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> On 21 April 2010 11:23, David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
> >
> > --
> > Blessings,
> > David M.
> >
> >
> Is it? I didn't notice. I just use "reply to all" which puts the list in the
> CC, and that works just fine for me.

reply to all works, but then we end up with 2 messages, and if you have
your mail client set up to filter mail into folders, then each message
ends up in 2 different places.

I've replied to several posts on the list, and I forget that the reply
button only replies to the OP and my posts don't make it to the list
unless I send them again.
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David M.


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#7: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:34:19 by David McGlone

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 10:36 +0100, Ashley Sheridan wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 05:23 -0400, David McGlone wrote:
>
> > Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
> >
> > --
> > Blessings,
> > David M.
> >
> >
>
>
> It's just standard list format I thought. A decent email client will
> recognise the email is a mailing list one and give you the options to
> reply to the list instead of using reply to all.

The reply to all sends 2 e-mails, one to the list, and one to the OP,
just like I did with this message. Now you are going to get 2 of these
messages but if the list was set up differently, then when hitting the
reply button, it would automatically send directly to the list and not
the OP.

I use Evolution, Kmail, and occasionally lookout and all of them are
decent e-mail clients. Also, of all the mailing lists I am on, this is
the only one that, when replying it goes to the OP and not the list.

I'm not trying to solicit a change, I'm just wondering why this list has
this behavior, which in my opinion is tedious.
--
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David M.


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#8: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:38:17 by David McGlone

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 05:08 -0500, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
> Hi,
> I think the problem or the bad form, if you will, is using reply-all.
> All you need to do is hit reply and it should just send a message
> back to the list. Everyone gets the list messages.
> If the reply-to is not set, type in the list email in the to and the
> reply-to in your message
> and that should set the stage for a reply-to to be present in the
> thread.
> I for one don't know how many email duplicates I have had to delete
> because someone hit reply-all.
> Gets messy on big threads, but I manage.

This is what I'm getting, but when hitting reply to this message of
yours, it does go to the list and not both the list and you personally.

Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
replying to the list.

dunno.

--
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David M.


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#9: Re[2]: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:40:36 by Andre Polykanine

Hello David,

I agree with you, David. I'm subscribed to twenty mailing lists or so,
and it's the only one that is set in a such weird way. I have a
template that works if replying to the list, but here it obviously
doesn't work.
--
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Andre
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Yahoo! messenger: andre.polykanine; ICQ: 191749952
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----- Original message -----
From: David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net>
To: Michiel Sikma <michiel@thingmajig.org>
Date: Wednesday, April 21, 2010, 1:33:34 PM
Subject: [PHP] replying to list

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 11:34 +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
> On 21 April 2010 11:23, David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
> >
> > --
> > Blessings,
> > David M.
> >
> >
> Is it? I didn't notice. I just use "reply to all" which puts the list in the
> CC, and that works just fine for me.

reply to all works, but then we end up with 2 messages, and if you have
your mail client set up to filter mail into folders, then each message
ends up in 2 different places.

I've replied to several posts on the list, and I forget that the reply
button only replies to the OP and my posts don't make it to the list
unless I send them again.
--
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David M.


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#10: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:43:58 by Per Jessen

David McGlone wrote:

> I use Evolution, Kmail, and occasionally lookout and all of them are
> decent e-mail clients. Also, of all the mailing lists I am on, this i=
s
> the only one that, when replying it goes to the OP and not the list.

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I haven't checked, but I think all the lists I am on behave like this
one.=20


--=20
Per Jessen, Zürich (14.8°C)


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#11: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 12:45:30 by Karl DeSaulniers

Exactly.
:)

Karl

On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:38 AM, David McGlone wrote:

> Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
> replying to the list.

Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com


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#12: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 13:00:04 by Nick Balestra

Not really i think, because by replying it just direct reply to the OP, =
while other systems like google groups for example by replying you just =
post to the list, and actually make more sense.

the easy way is to hit reply and change the "to" into =
php-general@lists.php.net or reply to all and replace "to" with the =
"cc". I think the best practice is to take this 5 second to take care of =
this in order to avoid duplicate message to others.

cheers

Nick

On Apr 21, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:

> Exactly.
> :)
>=20
> Karl
>=20
> On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:38 AM, David McGlone wrote:
>=20
>> Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
>> replying to the list.
>=20
> Karl DeSaulniers
> Design Drumm
> http://designdrumm.com
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20


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#13: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 13:05:30 by Ashley Sheridan

--=-5w0ikTdGwFFOXf5rUntd
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 13:00 +0200, Nick Balestra wrote:

> Not really i think, because by replying it just direct reply to the OP, while other systems like google groups for example by replying you just post to the list, and actually make more sense.
>
> the easy way is to hit reply and change the "to" into php-general@lists.php.net or reply to all and replace "to" with the "cc". I think the best practice is to take this 5 second to take care of this in order to avoid duplicate message to others.
>
> cheers
>
> Nick
>
> On Apr 21, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
>
> > Exactly.
> > :)
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:38 AM, David McGlone wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
> >> replying to the list.
> >
> > Karl DeSaulniers
> > Design Drumm
> > http://designdrumm.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
>
>


I'm only on one other mailing list, but it behaves exactly the same as
the php-general one. It makes sense really to me, as the email is coming
from the person who wrote it, and it's behaving as if we're just bcc'd
in as a list. I think the fault is with the email clients that don't
understand mailing lists.

Incidentally, I saw someone mention the Evolution email client in this
thread. It's what I use, and it does have a reply to list option (but I
tend to be a bit lazy and hit reply to all as the option is in a menu
and not on the toolbar :-/ )

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk



--=-5w0ikTdGwFFOXf5rUntd--

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#14: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 13:33:56 by Peter Lind

On 21 April 2010 12:38, David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net> wrote:
> Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
> replying to the list.

One would think that in a tech world where most programmers/developers
try to minimize the workload and "a good programmer is lazy" is seen
as meaningful and/or true, more people would get annoyed with having
to spend 5 seconds manually copying an email address from one field to
another when there is in fact a solution to this problem (and has been
for a very long time): proper setup of the mailing list with a
'reply-to' field. (and no, I don't think the possibilities of a
misconfigured OoO/autoreply is worth the hassle to the amount of
people using this mailing list - there are mail filters for things
like that).

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#15: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 14:03:34 by David Robley

Ashley Sheridan wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 13:00 +0200, Nick Balestra wrote:
>
>> Not really i think, because by replying it just direct reply to the OP,
>> while other systems like google groups for example by replying you just
>> post to the list, and actually make more sense.
>>
>> the easy way is to hit reply and change the "to" into
>> php-general@lists.php.net or reply to all and replace "to" with the "cc".
>> I think the best practice is to take this 5 second to take care of this
>> in order to avoid duplicate message to others.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
>>
>> > Exactly.
>> > :)
>> >
>> > Karl
>> >
>> > On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:38 AM, David McGlone wrote:
>> >
>> >> Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
>> >> replying to the list.
>> >
>> > Karl DeSaulniers
>> > Design Drumm
>> > http://designdrumm.com
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> I'm only on one other mailing list, but it behaves exactly the same as
> the php-general one. It makes sense really to me, as the email is coming
> from the person who wrote it, and it's behaving as if we're just bcc'd
> in as a list. I think the fault is with the email clients that don't
> understand mailing lists.
>
> Incidentally, I saw someone mention the Evolution email client in this
> thread. It's what I use, and it does have a reply to list option (but I
> tend to be a bit lazy and hit reply to all as the option is in a menu
> and not on the toolbar :-/ )
>
> Thanks,
> Ash
> http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk

This is an oldie but I think it is still a goodie in respect of this
discussion.

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


Cheers
--
David Robley

On an electrician's truck: Let Us Remove Your Shorts
Today is Sweetmorn, the 38th day of Discord in the YOLD 3176.


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#16: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 15:14:18 by Robert Cummings

Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
> Hi,
> I think the problem or the bad form, if you will, is using reply-all.
> All you need to do is hit reply and it should just send a message
> back to the list. Everyone gets the list messages.
> If the reply-to is not set, type in the list email in the to and the
> reply-to in your message
> and that should set the stage for a reply-to to be present in the
> thread.
> I for one don't know how many email duplicates I have had to delete
> because someone hit reply-all.
> Gets messy on big threads, but I manage.
>
> Be nice if that wasn't so. :)

I like the reply-all option. When someone uses it for a thread in which
I am active and for a message to which I've responded then I generally
get their response before the list sends it... not that the list is slow
by any measure from my end.

Cheers,
Rob.
--
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Application and Templating Framework for PHP

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#17: RE: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 15:15:38 by Bob McConnell

From: David Robley
> Ashley Sheridan wrote:
>> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 13:00 +0200, Nick Balestra wrote:
>>=20
>>> Not really i think, because by replying it just direct reply to the
OP,
>>> while other systems like google groups for example by replying you
just
>>> post to the list, and actually make more sense.
>>>=20
>>> the easy way is to hit reply and change the "to" into
>>> php-general@lists.php.net or reply to all and replace "to" with the
"cc".
>>> I think the best practice is to take this 5 second to take care of
this
>>> in order to avoid duplicate message to others.
>>>=20
>>> On Apr 21, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
>>>=20
>>> > Exactly.
>>> > :)
>>> >=20
>>> > Karl
>>> >=20
>>> > On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:38 AM, David McGlone wrote:
>>> >=20
>>> >> Maybe it's not how the list is set up, but instead how people are
>>> >> replying to the list.
>>> >=20
>>=20
>> I'm only on one other mailing list, but it behaves exactly the same
as
>> the php-general one. It makes sense really to me, as the email is
coming
>> from the person who wrote it, and it's behaving as if we're just
bcc'd
>> in as a list. I think the fault is with the email clients that don't
>> understand mailing lists.
>>=20
>> Incidentally, I saw someone mention the Evolution email client in
this
>> thread. It's what I use, and it does have a reply to list option (but
I
>> tend to be a bit lazy and hit reply to all as the option is in a menu
>> and not on the toolbar :-/ )
>=20
> This is an oldie but I think it is still a goodie in respect of this
> discussion.
>=20
> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
>=20

I have a couple of problems with that article. First, he still
references RFC822 a year and a half after it was superseded by RFC2822.
So he is already out of step with reality. (RFC2822 was itself
superseded by RFC5322 on Oct 1, 2008.)

Second, I don't agree with his definition of a reasonable mailer. He
recommends several processes that do not sound at all reasonable to me.
But I have only been using email for 27 years, so what do I know.

Third, and most importantly, he obviously had never dealt with a PHB
that required him to use a specific OS, mail client and servers that by
design will never be reasonable by anybody's definition. Many of us
simply don't get a choice.

I just did a quick check of the half dozen mailing lists I subscribe to
here at work, and they are split 50/50 on whether Reply goes back to the
list or the OP. So I suspect a consensus is unlikely.

Bob McConnell

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#18: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 15:18:13 by Robert Cummings

David McGlone wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 11:34 +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:
>> On 21 April 2010 11:23, David McGlone <david@dmcentral.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Blessings,
>>> David M.
>>>
>>>
>> Is it? I didn't notice. I just use "reply to all" which puts the list in the
>> CC, and that works just fine for me.
>
> reply to all works, but then we end up with 2 messages, and if you have
> your mail client set up to filter mail into folders, then each message
> ends up in 2 different places.

Improve your filter. I match on the message subject line looking for
[PHP] and route it to my PHP general folder.

Cheers,
Rob.
--
http://www.interjinn.com
Application and Templating Framework for PHP

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#19: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 15:58:51 by Michelle Konzack

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Hello David McGlone,

Am 2010-04-21 05:23:07, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
>=20
> Why is the list set up to reply to the OP and not the list?

Because a "Reply-To-List Button" exist in Evolution! :-D

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator

--=20
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

itsystems@tdnet France itsystems@tdnet UG (haftungsbeschr=E4nkt)
Gesch. Michelle Konzack Gesch. Michelle Konzack

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67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix

<http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>
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=yRmg
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#20: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 19:15:56 by Michelle Konzack

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Hello Ashley Sheridan,

Am 2010-04-21 12:05:30, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> Incidentally, I saw someone mention the Evolution email client in this
> thread. It's what I use,

=2E.and the OP!

> and it does have a reply to list option (but I

Thanks for the confirmation...

> tend to be a bit lazy and hit reply to all as the option is in a menu
> and not on the toolbar :-/ )

Can you not adapt the toolbar?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator

--=20
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

itsystems@tdnet France itsystems@tdnet UG (haftungsbeschr=E4nkt)
Gesch. Michelle Konzack Gesch. Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstra=DFe 17
67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix

<http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>
<http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.can4linux.org/>

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#21: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 19:27:00 by Michelle Konzack

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Hello David McGlone,

Am 2010-04-21 06:34:19, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
> I use Evolution, Kmail, and occasionally lookout and all of them are
> decent e-mail clients. Also, of all the mailing lists I am on, this is
> the only one that, when replying it goes to the OP and not the list.

This is realy weird, because I know only 5 lists of 113 (where I am on)
which are mangeling the Reply-To: and I can not simply reply per PM.

> I'm not trying to solicit a change, I'm just wondering why this list has
> this behavior, which in my opinion is tedious.

I have three Reply options:

R Reply to Poster
G Reply to Group
L Reply to List

and there is nothing wrong with it... It is called VERY decent MUA.

Note: I hate peoples sending me Cc: on my Cell-Phone exspecialy
List-Messages which I read from my private archive.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator

--=20
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux

itsystems@tdnet France itsystems@tdnet UG (haftungsbeschr=E4nkt)
Gesch. Michelle Konzack Gesch. Michelle Konzack

Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstra=DFe 17
67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix

<http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.flexray4linux.org/>
<http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://www.can4linux.org/>

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#22: Re: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-21 21:31:10 by Karl DeSaulniers

All the lists I am on, when I hit reply, the lists email comes up.
The PHP email lists are the only ones that do not for me. I end up =20
(every time I send a message)
deleting the Op email and typing in the list email, or hit reply-all =20
and delete all emails except the list email.
I do this as a courtesy to all the others on the list.


Karl


On Apr 21, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

> Hello David McGlone,
>
> Am 2010-04-21 06:34:19, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
>> I use Evolution, Kmail, and occasionally lookout and all of them are
>> decent e-mail clients. Also, of all the mailing lists I am on, =20
>> this is
>> the only one that, when replying it goes to the OP and not the list.
>
> This is realy weird, because I know only 5 lists of 113 (where I =20
> am on)
> which are mangeling the Reply-To: and I can not simply reply per PM.
>
>> I'm not trying to solicit a change, I'm just wondering why this =20
>> list has
>> this behavior, which in my opinion is tedious.
>
> I have three Reply options:
>
> R Reply to Poster
> G Reply to Group
> L Reply to List
>
> and there is nothing wrong with it... It is called VERY decent MUA.
>
> Note: I hate peoples sending me Cc: on my Cell-Phone exspecialy
> List-Messages which I read from my private archive.
>
> Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
> Michelle Konzack
> Systemadministrator
>
> --=20
> ##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant =20
> ######################
> Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux
>
> itsystems@tdnet France itsystems@tdnet UG =20
> (haftungsbeschr=E4nkt)
> Gesch. Michelle Konzack Gesch. Michelle Konzack
>
> Apt. 917 (homeoffice)
> 50, rue de Soultz Kinzigstra=DFe 17
> 67100 Strasbourg/France 77694 Kehl/Germany
> Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil
> Tel: +33-9-52705884 fix
>
> <http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://=20
> www.flexray4linux.org/>
> <http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/> <http://=20
> www.can4linux.org/>
>
> Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
> ICQ #328449886
>
> Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/

Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com


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#23: Re: Re: replying to list

Posted on 2010-04-22 11:50:09 by Ashley Sheridan

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On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 19:15 +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:

> Can you not adapt the toolbar?


I did find
http://www.mail-archive.com/evolution@lists.ximian.com/msg01 302.html but
it looks to be Linux-only. I would assume there's an equivalent method
out there for Windows and Macs.

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk



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