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#1: Re: [PHP] tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 19:50:53 by Ashley Sheridan

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#2: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 20:04:09 by Joshua Kehn

--Apple-Mail-87--1070196023
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii

In the case payment does come down to lines of code written I'm already =
covered.

if( count > 5)
{
/* Bracing Style
}

Regards,

-Josh
____________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn@gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Oct 7, 2010, at 1:50 PM, ash@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote:

> Surely it would have been a bit more sensible to work out the time the =
programmer had spent on the project and then calculate it as a =
percentage of the total time that programmer would spend on it to =
complete it (which might not be the whole duration of the project)
>=20
> Also, counting code lines seems unfair. I know it used to be this way, =
but its a bit like paying firemen based on the number of fires they put =
out; don't be surprised if arson figures go up!
>=20
> I would guess though that this fellow likely had to pay some of that =
initial outlay of cash back though, and would further assume the total =
price attributed to each line was no more than 3 or 4 cents (damb =
English androids don't have the cent character)
>=20
> Thanks,
> Ash
> http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
>=20
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "tedd" <tedd.sperling@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Oct 7, 2010 18:20
> Subject: [PHP] tedd's Friday Post ($ per line)
> To: <php-general@lists.php.net>
>=20
> Hi gang:
>=20
> Several years ago I was involved in a court case where a programmers=20=

> work was being evaluated to establish a dollar amount for the work=20
> done.
>=20
> The case was a dispute where the client wanted money back from a=20
> programmer for a discontinued project. The programmer simply wanted=20
> to be paid for the work he had done. This wasn't a case where anyone=20=

> had done anything wrong, but rather a circumstance where two parties=20=

> were trying to figure out who was due what.
>=20
> You see, the original client had been taken over by another company=20
> who put a halt to the project the programmer was working on. The new=20=

> company claimed that because the project wasn't finished, then the=20
> programmer should pay back all the money he was paid up-front to=20
> start the project. However, while the project had not been finished,=20=

> the programmer had indeed worked on the project for several months.
>=20
> The programmer stated he wanted to paid his hourly rate. But the new=20=

> client stated that the up-front money paid had been based upon a bid=20=

> and not an hourly rate. So, they were at odds as to what to do.
>=20
> The solution in this case was to place a dollar amount on the actual=20=

> "lines of code" the programmer wrote. In other words, they took all=20
> of programmers code and actually counted the lines of code he wrote=20
> and then agreed to a specific dollar amount to each line. In this=20
> case, the programmer had written over 25,000 lines of code. What do=20
> you think he was paid?
>=20
> And with all of that said, what dollar amount would you place on your=20=

> "line of code"?
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> tedd
>=20
> --=20
> -------
> http://sperling.com/
>=20
> --=20
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20


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#3: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 20:09:58 by daniel.brown

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 14:04, Joshua Kehn <josh.kehn@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the case payment does come down to lines of code written I'm already c=
overed.
>
> if( count > 5)
> {
> =A0 =A0/* Bracing Style
> }

PHP Notice: Use of undefined constant count - assumed 'count' on line =
1
PHP Warning: Unterminated comment starting line 3 on line 3
PHP Parse error: syntax error, unexpected $end on line 4

--=20
</Daniel P. Brown>
Dedicated Servers, Cloud and Cloud Hybrid Solutions, VPS, Hosting
(866-) 725-4321
http://www.parasane.net/

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#4: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 20:15:13 by Joshua Kehn

I guess that's what I get for spending the last four weeks developing =
with JavaScript and Node.js.....

Regards,

-Josh
____________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn@gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Oct 7, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Daniel P. Brown wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 14:04, Joshua Kehn <josh.kehn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the case payment does come down to lines of code written I'm =
already covered.
>>=20
>> if( count > 5)
>> {
>> /* Bracing Style
>> }
>=20
> PHP Notice: Use of undefined constant count - assumed 'count' on =
line 1
> PHP Warning: Unterminated comment starting line 3 on line 3
> PHP Parse error: syntax error, unexpected $end on line 4
>=20
> --=20
> </Daniel P. Brown>
> Dedicated Servers, Cloud and Cloud Hybrid Solutions, VPS, Hosting
> (866-) 725-4321
> http://www.parasane.net/


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#5: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 21:04:06 by Robert Cummings

On 10-10-07 02:04 PM, Joshua Kehn wrote:
> In the case payment does come down to lines of code written I'm already covered.
>
> if( count> 5)
> {
> /* Bracing Style
> }

I hope your $count var is being incremented properly under this model:

<?php

function increment( &$count )
{
$count = 0;
if( $count == 0 )
{
$count = 1;
}
else
if( $count == 1 )
{
$count = 2;
}
else
if( $count == 2 )
{
$count = 3;
}
else
if( $count == 3 )
{
$count = 4;
}
else
if( $count == 4 )
{
$count = 5;
}
else
{
throw new Exception( 'Increment out of bounds' );
}
}

?>

Just think how much money could be made if you need to support large
datasets!!! CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-CHING!

Cheers,
Rob.
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#6: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 22:51:35 by TedD

At 6:50 PM +0100 10/7/10, ash@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote:
>Surely it would have been a bit more sensible to work out the time
>the programmer had spent on the project and then calculate it as a
>percentage of the total time that programmer would spend on it to
>complete it (which might not be the whole duration of the project)
>
>Also, counting code lines seems unfair. I know it used to be this
>way, but its a bit like paying firemen based on the number of fires
>they put out; don't be surprised if arson figures go up!
>
>I would guess though that this fellow likely had to pay some of that
>initial outlay of cash back though, and would further assume the
>total price attributed to each line was no more than 3 or 4 cents
>(damb English androids don't have the cent character)
>
>Thanks,
>Ash

As I said, this was a case that I worked on several years ago (20+).
I was not the programmer, but rather a consultant for an attorney.

The programmer wanted to have his payment based upon the hours he put
it, but the client wanted proof of the programmers effort. Both were
understandable positions.

Considering that the programmers effort did not work, and there were
no time clocks showing the actual hours the programmer worked, the
solution centered on an evaluation of the end-product. That
evaluation reduced to the amount of code written, which boiled down
to lines of code.

Granted, as Rob said, some lines are worth more than others, but
overall a case was made to pay a certain amount per line.

Now, back to the question at hand -- what price would you sell a line
of your code for?

Cheers,

tedd


--
-------
http://sperling.com/

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#7: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 22:53:30 by Phpster

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:51 PM, tedd <tedd.sperling@gmail.com> wrote:
> At 6:50 PM +0100 10/7/10, ash@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> Surely it would have been a bit more sensible to work out the time the
>> programmer had spent on the project and then calculate it as a percentage of
>> the total time that programmer would spend on it to complete it (which might
>> not be the whole duration of the project)
>>
>> Also, counting code lines seems unfair. I know it used to be this way, but
>> its a bit like paying firemen based on the number of fires they put out;
>> don't be surprised if arson figures go up!
>>
>> I would guess though that this fellow likely had to pay some of that
>> initial outlay of cash back though, and would further assume the total price
>> attributed to each line was no more than 3 or 4 cents (damb English androids
>> don't have the cent character)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ash
>
> As I said, this was a case that I worked on several years ago (20+). I was
> not the programmer, but rather a consultant for an attorney.
>
> The programmer wanted to have his payment based upon the hours he put it,
> but the client wanted proof of the programmers effort. Both were
> understandable positions.
>
> Considering that the programmers effort did not work, and there were no time
> clocks showing the actual hours the programmer worked, the solution centered
> on an evaluation of the end-product. That evaluation reduced to the amount
> of code written, which boiled down to lines of code.
>
> Granted, as Rob said, some lines are worth more than others, but overall a
> case was made to pay a certain amount per line.
>
> Now, back to the question at hand -- what price would you sell a line of
> your code for?
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd
>
>
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com/
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
<Dr Evil Laugh>
One Beelyon Dollars

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#8: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-07 22:53:43 by Joshua Kehn

$100 a line.

If you want more then one line let's meet and go over the project. I =
might give a significant discount.

Regards,

-Josh
____________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn@gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Oct 7, 2010, at 4:51 PM, tedd wrote:

> At 6:50 PM +0100 10/7/10, ash@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote:
>> Surely it would have been a bit more sensible to work out the time =
the programmer had spent on the project and then calculate it as a =
percentage of the total time that programmer would spend on it to =
complete it (which might not be the whole duration of the project)
>>=20
>> Also, counting code lines seems unfair. I know it used to be this =
way, but its a bit like paying firemen based on the number of fires they =
put out; don't be surprised if arson figures go up!
>>=20
>> I would guess though that this fellow likely had to pay some of that =
initial outlay of cash back though, and would further assume the total =
price attributed to each line was no more than 3 or 4 cents (damb =
English androids don't have the cent character)
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Ash
>=20
> As I said, this was a case that I worked on several years ago (20+). I =
was not the programmer, but rather a consultant for an attorney.
>=20
> The programmer wanted to have his payment based upon the hours he put =
it, but the client wanted proof of the programmers effort. Both were =
understandable positions.
>=20
> Considering that the programmers effort did not work, and there were =
no time clocks showing the actual hours the programmer worked, the =
solution centered on an evaluation of the end-product. That evaluation =
reduced to the amount of code written, which boiled down to lines of =
code.
>=20
> Granted, as Rob said, some lines are worth more than others, but =
overall a case was made to pay a certain amount per line.
>=20
> Now, back to the question at hand -- what price would you sell a line =
of your code for?
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> tedd
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> -------
> http://sperling.com/
>=20
> --=20
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20


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#9: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-08 17:30:44 by Nathan Rixham

tedd wrote:
> Now, back to the question at hand -- what price would you sell a line of
> your code for?

Interesting case and question Tedd! Quite sure we all realise the answer
is not black and white but various shades of grey, and I wouldn't fancy
doing this for real - however, given the assumption that it was
technically solid code "average", and assuming it was a functional
approach (as in there wasn't chunks of domain schema classes with
nothing but getters and setters around / boiler plate junk), then:

35-40 cents per line

The approach I've taken to working it out is to try and average out
lines of code produced per 8 hour working day, allowing time for
research, decision making, minor code reduction and refactoring, then
adding a small offset for any time spend on documentation which would
show further understanding and confidence in the code + make it more
usable. Whitespace and a coding styles which produce more lines but the
same amount of code not included. I've also made a small adjustment for
the 'several years ago' all though I'm assuming this to be early 2000s
and not the 1970s ;)

Anywhere near?

ps: tedd, please cc me in to the final answer as I won't have time to
check the list for a while, and I'm quite interested in this one - kudos
to you if you managed to do it and get both parties happy with the
result though!

Best,

Nathan

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#10: Re: tedd"s Friday Post ($ per line)

Posted on 2010-10-08 17:45:49 by Nathan Rixham

Nathan Rixham wrote:
> tedd wrote:
>> Now, back to the question at hand -- what price would you sell a line
>> of your code for?

Just realised I responded to the wrong question - the answer was how I'd
approach the original question "What do you think he was paid?"

For myself, I wouldn't place a price on a single line of code, you can
have one for free :) if you want me to do 25,000 lines of code then
it'll be circa £1 GBP per line, seeing as you aren't considering any of
the other factors. Unless it's open source as I cc-zero all my open
source / community stuff.

> Interesting case and question Tedd! Quite sure we all realise the answer
> is not black and white but various shades of grey, and I wouldn't fancy
> doing this for real - however, given the assumption that it was
> technically solid code "average", and assuming it was a functional
> approach (as in there wasn't chunks of domain schema classes with
> nothing but getters and setters around / boiler plate junk), then:
>
> 35-40 cents per line
>
> The approach I've taken to working it out is to try and average out
> lines of code produced per 8 hour working day, allowing time for
> research, decision making, minor code reduction and refactoring, then
> adding a small offset for any time spend on documentation which would
> show further understanding and confidence in the code + make it more
> usable. Whitespace and a coding styles which produce more lines but the
> same amount of code not included. I've also made a small adjustment for
> the 'several years ago' all though I'm assuming this to be early 2000s
> and not the 1970s ;)
>
> Anywhere near?
>
> ps: tedd, please cc me in to the final answer as I won't have time to
> check the list for a while, and I'm quite interested in this one - kudos
> to you if you managed to do it and get both parties happy with the
> result though!
>
> Best,
>
> Nathan


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