Catalog problems; windows installer woes

Hello all,

I have been able to reproduce success and failure of retrieving a table
list using Dolphin Smalltalk. The no catalog option allows it to work.

Now for the constructive criticism. This is partly an experience
report (so you know what did and didn't work well), and parlty advice.

I decided to try my no-catalog test on the machine that originally gave
me trouble, once again running 4.1.7. However, the re-installation of
the server was quite rocky. The config wizard never managed to work,
perhaps because it left the server and/or data files in an inconsistent
state. At one point, I had to remove the MySQL service to get it to
run. Then I was terribly confused about old vs. new passwords, and
which was in use. My goal was to get going using MySQL-front 2.5, so I
was fiddling with --old-passwords and the old_passwords variable [*]. I
am not certain, but I think this was interfering with the wizard.
Should the wizard offer an option to store the root password with old or
new format? I finally removed everything and then installed using the
zip distribution, and all was working in a matter of minutes.

A minor point: cr/lf concerns for Windows users. The sample ini files
are not terminated in a notepad-friendly way. Dolphin to the rescue
again, but it would be helpful to have them terminated such that notepad
understands them.

I was surprised when I read that you had chosen to create MSI files,
and while I admit being biased against them (having had some very poor
experience with them, both as a user and developer), I feel obligated to
suggest that you reconsider the idea. InnoSetup will do a nice job of
putting files on a machine, and more. That combined with a separate
program/wizard would be easier and cheaper for you, and I believe much
safer for users.

Thanks for some excellent software!

[*] is it just me, or is the Win2k service properties dialog
_completely_ broken with respect to startup parameters? AFAICT, that
field is not connected to anything. Am I missing something? I finally
followed the suggestion of putting a variable in the config file.

Bill



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bills@anest4.anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029


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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

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Bill Schwab wrote:
[snip]
> I was surprised when I read that you had chosen to create MSI files,
> and while I admit being biased against them (having had some very poor
> experience with them, both as a user and developer), I feel obligated to
> suggest that you reconsider the idea. InnoSetup will do a nice job of
> putting files on a machine, and more. That combined with a separate
> program/wizard would be easier and cheaper for you, and I believe much
> safer for users.

Bill,

Unfortunately, MSI is the industry-standard for windows, _and_ it is
required to have 'certified for windows' products (i.e. 'windows logo').

You can not build products that will meet certification for Windows if
the installers or installer tools don't use MSI. Unfortunately,
InnoSetup (and others such as NullSoft's installer) do not use MSI.

We have also had a not small amount of customers actually _request_ that
we make MSI-based installers, as they are bound by the same constraints,
and must install 'bundled' versions of MySQL using the same technology
for _their_ windows products.

There is also a whole industry segment centered around the management of
windows software installation and management for datacenters and large
amounts of desktops, and those all use MSI as well...So I think that our
installer team's hand was 'forced' on what they could choose.

Regards,

-Mark
- --
Mark Matthews
MySQL AB, Software Development Manager - Client Connectivity
Office: +1 708 332 0507
www.mysql.com
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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

Mark,

==============================
Unfortunately, MSI is the industry-standard for windows, _and_ it is
required to have 'certified for windows' products (i.e. 'windows
logo').

You can not build products that will meet certification for Windows if
the installers or installer tools don't use MSI. Unfortunately,
InnoSetup (and others such as NullSoft's installer) do not use MSI.

We have also had a not small amount of customers actually _request_
that
we make MSI-based installers, as they are bound by the same
constraints,
and must install 'bundled' versions of MySQL using the same technology
for _their_ windows products.

There is also a whole industry segment centered around the management
of
windows software installation and management for datacenters and large
amounts of desktops, and those all use MSI as well...So I think that
our
installer team's hand was 'forced' on what they could choose.
==============================

Fair enough. But let's take this in the other direction, just to see
if anyone salutes. Is a Microsoft logo a requirement? To be honest, I
see no value in it. If they wrote better software, I would probably be
using SQL Server. Somehow (I could be very wrong), I suspect that
people who want a logo would probably steer clear of that open source
stuff???

I maintain that the MSI rules are so incredibly complicated as to make
them dangerous. It is very rare for you guys to make something that
does not work, especially when it is labeled as a released product. I
find the intersection of your apparent failure and MSI to be suggestive.
Of course, your installer is very new and quite ambitious, so it is not
shocking that there would be problems, and/or simply missing features.

Re the "no catalog" option, should I report that elsewhere? I would
much rather us spend time on it than debugging MSI glitches. If we do
both, so be it.

Regards,

Bill



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bills@anest4.anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029


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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

> Unfortunately, MSI is the industry-standard for windows, _and_ it is
> required to have 'certified for windows' products (i.e. 'windows logo').

That's all well and good (OK, it's not but...) please, please don't stop
releasing a non-installer package, please.

I can't stand winodw installers, spewing files and keys, willey-nilley all
over my hard drive.

I have this nice installation/update method. Works great, my PC is stable
with it and I can backup and restore in minutes.

[web.torres.ws/waltes_way]

And I don't have a single reg key.

Speaking of reg keys, please, please, in future windows versions, please
don't require reg keys, please!

Thanks for a great DB server.

walter


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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I agree with Walter.

I have been a Windoze developer and administrator for well over a decade
and I really prefer your non-installer method of setting up MySQL. I loved
the fact that I didn't need to run an installer to get your product
working. A simple unzip and one move of an INI and I was up and running in
no time flat and I **KNEW** that if anything was wrong I could easily
remove all traces of MySQL without needing to prowl the registry. (I know
that nothing stopped you from creating registry entries on startup however
my anti-spyware didn't detect any changes so I felt much better about your
product the first time I used it. You actually did what your docs say you
do. It was AMAZING!!!)

I understand the prestige that comes with the Win logo. However, if
someone wants to become a MySQL administrator and they are loading MySQL
for the first time, learning where the executables and the data live is
critical to understanding what is going on. Using the non-MSI
installation and reading the documentation is an excellent first lesson as
it not only helps you to understand where everything is but also how to
set up your cnf/ini files and which executables are servers and which are
client tools. If an administrator can't grasp those simple nuts and bolts
of your server, they will be absolutely lost when something goes wrong.
Please keep the non-MSI Win32 installation package.

Thanks!
Shawn Green
Database Administrator
Unimin Corporation - Spruce Pine



"phpWalter" wrote on 12/15/2004 03:06:00 AM:

> > Unfortunately, MSI is the industry-standard for windows, _and_ it is
> > required to have 'certified for windows' products (i.e. 'windows
logo').
>
> That's all well and good (OK, it's not but...) please, please don't stop
> releasing a non-installer package, please.
>
> I can't stand winodw installers, spewing files and keys, willey-nilley
all
> over my hard drive.
>
> I have this nice installation/update method. Works great, my PC is
stable
> with it and I can backup and restore in minutes.
>
> [web.torres.ws/waltes_way]
>
> And I don't have a single reg key.
>
> Speaking of reg keys, please, please, in future windows versions, please
> don't require reg keys, please!
>
> Thanks for a great DB server.
>
> walter
>
>
> --
> MySQL Windows Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/win32
> To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/win32?unsub=sgreen@unimin.com
>

--=_alternative 0052167985256F6B_=--

Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

On 15 Dec 2004 at 9:54, SGreen@unimin.com wrote:

> I agree with Walter.

Hi MySQL developers,

I agree please keep the non-MSI installer as well.


Regards

Ian
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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

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I should just point out that MySQL AN has had a non-installer version
for as long as we have had an installer. So don't worry, I seriously
doubt the non-installer version is going away.

And as for the Windows Logo questions: there will always be a certain
group of customers for whom the Logo is important and for whom the MSI
installer is a great thing. And for those of you who know what they are
doing the non-installer version is a snap anyway.

--
Mike Hillyer, Technical Writer
MySQL AB, www.mysql.com
Office: +1 403-380-6535
Mobile: +1 403-330-0870

"The Open Source movement has become a major force across the software
industry, and MySQL is the world's most popular open source database."
--Fortune Magazine

Ian Gibbons wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2004 at 9:54, SGreen@unimin.com wrote:
>
>
>>I agree with Walter.
>
>
> Hi MySQL developers,
>
> I agree please keep the non-MSI installer as well.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ian

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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

My $.02. I bundle MySQL with another product I sell. To get my
distributable packages, I use the raw executables anyway, so the
"mysql-4.1.7-win-noinstall.zip" package will work for me. (My product line
is still using the 4.0 series.) The old installer never seemed to much
more than a self-extracting zip file anyway.

If there is something I think Windows MySQL installers should be annoyed
with, it would seem to be the "if you are using MySQL 4.1.5 or earlier, you
must UNINSTALL before running this spiffy new installation"
statement. That just looks like lazy installation coding.

BTW, here's the page with info about the 4.1 Windows installer if you're
interested.
(http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/4.1/installer. html)

And now I'm just going to go off on my own rant...

People will find in serious production environments will probably find the
default location of "C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 4.1"
annoying. It's common these days to keep the OS on C: and put the DB on a
separate D: partition...something which people may feel unwilling to do if
the default location is in Program Files.

This quote made me chuckle: "Using 'Developer Machine' will assign 12% of
the available memory to MySQL which is quite sufficient for development.
" Is it really that common to develop against mickey-mouse tables? And
people wonder why their applications don't scale in production...

This quote is kind of disturbing to a fellow who constantly needs to sell
MySQL against SQL Server in front of security teams: "Another feature that
is available after a new installation is an anonymous account that allows
guests to connect to the server. " Thanks, but no thanks, guys.

And finally...will 4.1 finally let me run MySQL as a service under a
non-Administator Windows account? That remains the one MySQL-on-Windows
security problem which keeps me awake at night, and I didn't see mention of
a "run as user" field in the new installer description...

That is all.

At 08:54 AM 12/15/2004, SGreen@unimin.com wrote:
>I have been a Windoze developer and administrator for well over a decade
>and I really prefer your non-installer method of setting up MySQL. I loved
>the fact that I didn't need to run an installer to get your product
>working. ...

- Jonathan Lampe, GCIA, GSNA
- MOVEit Product Manager
- Standard Networks, Inc.
- 608.227.6100 (US - CST)
- jonathan.lampe@standardnetworks.com

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RE: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

I see both sides of this fence.

I personally feel that MySQL should continue to provide BOTH the MSI and
Zipped versions of MySQL as they are targeted toward different users.

As a developer, I really like the Zipped version of MySQL, but I can
really see the need for the MSI based installer for less technical
people.

A well designed MSI will install and un-install without problems (no
really, a *WELL* designed one is pretty trouble free.)

Most Windows users expect software installations just to be a
double-click and you are done sort of thing. Once they installation is
done, they expect it to be ready to use (not have to select and install
a server service.) They also expect to be able to uninstall it without
remnants of services or whatever still hanging around. MSI based
installers can do this if they are designed correctly.

Another plus to MSI based installers is that you can install
applications using Windows Group Policy. Obviously, this is less
desirable for something like MySQL, but is still a plus and might be
useful in some environments, such as a classroom.

If we want the MySQL user base to grow, MSI is a good way to get less
savvy users to install and use it. If the messages on this list
regarding trouble installing and *starting* MySQL is any indication of
the mentality of Windows users, then MSI installers are definitely for
them.

I feel it would be best to make the MSI based installer as simple as
possible. Install support for MyIsam and possibly InnoDB with basic
settings. No setup wizard. No user defined preferences. These options
are just too much for newbies. Keep it simple. Just Next, Next, Next,
Done. If they like it, they will seek the documentation and find out how
to get more out of it. The more tech savvy people are using the Zipped
installation anyway.

That's my two cents worth.

-Kevin


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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

Greetings,

I agree with Kevin, most user have no idea how to deal with a database
server, they don't know some basic concepts (services, config files,
client x server interfaces, command line). In fact, some developers
don't know it, and I don't blame them, it takes a touch of geek to use
something and go around asking and reading about it, when it is just a
small part of a huge application. For example, if I am a Delphi
developer, I have pretty much trouble with my language, I don't want
more trouble with a database that will do a small part on my app.

But most of the people who really uses a database, and some like me
that use it eventually, but like to be in control of everything (geek
paranoia) in the computer (and have to deal with windows for technical
issues, I ratter prefer Linux), for those the .zip without install is
just perfect. I mean, if you can SHIFT-DELETE the MySQL folder (after
backing it up) without a nasty comment that you'll affect a registered
program, it means your registry has one less key to deal with ;) and
porting the server from one computer to another, or even mirroring the
server is just SO more simple.

You can't make everyone happy, but I like to think the MySQL team
tries, and does a good job.

*by the way, thanks MySQL Team, you ROX!!!

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:17:55 -0800, PF: MySQL wrote:
>
>
> I see both sides of this fence.
>
> I personally feel that MySQL should continue to provide BOTH the MSI and
> Zipped versions of MySQL as they are targeted toward different users.
>
> As a developer, I really like the Zipped version of MySQL, but I can
> really see the need for the MSI based installer for less technical
> people.
>
> A well designed MSI will install and un-install without problems (no
> really, a *WELL* designed one is pretty trouble free.)
>
> Most Windows users expect software installations just to be a
> double-click and you are done sort of thing. Once they installation is
> done, they expect it to be ready to use (not have to select and install
> a server service.) They also expect to be able to uninstall it without
> remnants of services or whatever still hanging around. MSI based
> installers can do this if they are designed correctly.
>
> Another plus to MSI based installers is that you can install
> applications using Windows Group Policy. Obviously, this is less
> desirable for something like MySQL, but is still a plus and might be
> useful in some environments, such as a classroom.
>
> If we want the MySQL user base to grow, MSI is a good way to get less
> savvy users to install and use it. If the messages on this list
> regarding trouble installing and *starting* MySQL is any indication of
> the mentality of Windows users, then MSI installers are definitely for
> them.
>
> I feel it would be best to make the MSI based installer as simple as
> possible. Install support for MyIsam and possibly InnoDB with basic
> settings. No setup wizard. No user defined preferences. These options
> are just too much for newbies. Keep it simple. Just Next, Next, Next,
> Done. If they like it, they will seek the documentation and find out how
> to get more out of it. The more tech savvy people are using the Zipped
> installation anyway.
>
> That's my two cents worth.
>
> -Kevin
>
>

--
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil

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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C4E287.70F60450
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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I have this wierd behavior on a machine that you guys are going to know =
how to solve easily. How do I delete an old MySQL service that was =
created by the MSI installer package?

I installed a gamma edition of MySQL about a year ago on one machine. =
Then I tried to uninstall and re-install a later edition (USING MSI =
naturally). The new install dies because the old uninstall doesn't =
remove the MySql Service it established. There seems to be no way to =
remove it without knowing how to hack it out somehow. One cannot just =
delete services from the service command_center/control_panel window =
(one can only start or stop them). The machine is effectively stopped =
from running or installing MySQL (unless I go back and install the old =
gamma edition that has the faulty intall/uninstall). I looked everywhere =
I could think of, and cannot figure out where the list of services lives =
in Windows.

Obviously when uninstalled, the MySQL service doesn't get started =
(because the MySql .exe file has been uninstalled and deleted). But the =
reference to the service lives on preventing installation of a new copy =
of MySQL...

Thanks and have a great day!

Bill Angus, MA
http://www.psychtest.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: SGreen@unimin.com=20
To: phpWalter=20
Cc: win32@lists.mysql.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes


I agree with Walter.=20

I have been a Windoze developer and administrator for well over a =
decade=20
and I really prefer your non-installer method of setting up MySQL. I =
loved=20
the fact that I didn't need to run an installer to get your product=20
working. A simple unzip and one move of an INI and I was up and =
running in=20
no time flat and I **KNEW** that if anything was wrong I could easily=20
remove all traces of MySQL without needing to prowl the registry. (I =
know=20
that nothing stopped you from creating registry entries on startup =
however=20
my anti-spyware didn't detect any changes so I felt much better about =
your=20
product the first time I used it. You actually did what your docs say =
you=20
do. It was AMAZING!!!)

I understand the prestige that comes with the Win logo. However, if=20
someone wants to become a MySQL administrator and they are loading =
MySQL=20
for the first time, learning where the executables and the data live =
is=20
critical to understanding what is going on. Using the non-MSI=20
installation and reading the documentation is an excellent first =
lesson as=20
it not only helps you to understand where everything is but also how =
to=20
set up your cnf/ini files and which executables are servers and which =
are=20
client tools. If an administrator can't grasp those simple nuts and =
bolts=20
of your server, they will be absolutely lost when something goes =
wrong.=20
Please keep the non-MSI Win32 installation package.

Thanks!
Shawn Green
Database Administrator
Unimin Corporation - Spruce Pine



"phpWalter" wrote on 12/15/2004 03:06:00 AM:

> > Unfortunately, MSI is the industry-standard for windows, _and_ it =
is
> > required to have 'certified for windows' products (i.e. 'windows=20
logo').
>=20
> That's all well and good (OK, it's not but...) please, please don't =
stop
> releasing a non-installer package, please.
>=20
> I can't stand winodw installers, spewing files and keys, =
willey-nilley=20
all
> over my hard drive.
>=20
> I have this nice installation/update method. Works great, my PC is=20
stable
> with it and I can backup and restore in minutes.
>=20
> [web.torres.ws/waltes_way]
>=20
> And I don't have a single reg key.
>=20
> Speaking of reg keys, please, please, in future windows versions, =
please
> don't require reg keys, please!
>=20
> Thanks for a great DB server.
>=20
> walter
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> MySQL Windows Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/win32
> To unsubscribe: =
http://lists.mysql.com/win32?unsub=3Dsgreen@unimin.com
>=20

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C4E287.70F60450--

Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

Jonathan broght up:

> And finally...will 4.1 finally let me run MySQL as a service under a
> non-Administator Windows account? That remains the one MySQL-on-Windows
> security problem which keeps me awake at night, and I didn't see mention
> of a "run as user" field in the new installer description...

Yet another reason for a non-installer version.

I run my MySQL with its own account.

Still fiddling with security and locking things down.

Walter


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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

To the gentleman having problems removing the service.
You can remove the service either editting the registry (a complicated
and unnecessary solution) or you can simply go to DOS command line,
enter the /bin directory of your MySQL installation, like this:

C:\> C:\mysql\bin\mysqld --remove

You must type the correct path to your MySQL folder, of course, this
will remove the service.

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:38:25 -0600 (CST), phpWalter wrote:
> Jonathan broght up:
>
> > And finally...will 4.1 finally let me run MySQL as a service under a
> > non-Administator Windows account? That remains the one MySQL-on-Windows
> > security problem which keeps me awake at night, and I didn't see mention
> > of a "run as user" field in the new installer description...
>
> Yet another reason for a non-installer version.
>
> I run my MySQL with its own account.
>
> Still fiddling with security and locking things down.
>
> Walter
>
>


--
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil

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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

At 11:07 AM 12/15/2004, Daniel da Veiga wrote:
>You can't make everyone happy, but I like to think the MySQL team
>tries, and does a good job.

I must respectfully disagree here with Windows issues. I'm very happy that
MySQL is as stable as it is under Windows, but the few rare
Windows-specific features in MySQL often appear to have been slammed
together at the last minute. (Read my Sep 23, 2004 comment here for an
example involving the Windows Event Log:
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Error_log.html)

It would seem that MySQL has a captive audience of Windows MySQL people
(yeah, that's us)...so why don't they send out a broadcast on this
newsgroup (win32@...mysql...) to solicit feedback when they introduce new
Windows-specific features? I know I'd chirp up...

-jgl

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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

Walter,

======================
>>> "phpWalter" 12/15/04 02:58AM >>>
> A minor point: cr/lf concerns for Windows users. The sample ini
files
> are not terminated in a notepad-friendly way. Dolphin to the
rescue
> again, but it would be helpful to have them terminated such that
notepad
> understands them.


I wouldn't want the files "fixed", then my Linux will break.
======================

Not with post-processing in a make file or similar that creates the
distributions, but...


======================
Use Wordpad.
======================

Thanks for the tip. I used one of Dolphin Smalltalk's workspaces, but
will give Wordpad a try.

Bill



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bills@anest4.anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029


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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jonathan G. Lampe wrote:
> At 11:07 AM 12/15/2004, Daniel da Veiga wrote:
>
>>You can't make everyone happy, but I like to think the MySQL team
>>tries, and does a good job.
>
>
> I must respectfully disagree here with Windows issues. I'm very happy that
> MySQL is as stable as it is under Windows, but the few rare
> Windows-specific features in MySQL often appear to have been slammed
> together at the last minute. (Read my Sep 23, 2004 comment here for an
> example involving the Windows Event Log:
> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Error_log.html)

Jonathan,

Sorry I didn't get a chance to see your original post when you posted
it, however the issue you get in the error log has more to do with how
MySQL handles errors internally, and less with the fact that it's
running on windows...(i.e. there's only one log message type).

The reason we added the eventlog stuff at all, is because you can run
into a situation where you've installed MySQL as a service, but have
something misconfigured, and can't diagnose why it's not starting, as it
can't write to the console.

>
> It would seem that MySQL has a captive audience of Windows MySQL people
> (yeah, that's us)...so why don't they send out a broadcast on this
> newsgroup (win32@...mysql...) to solicit feedback when they introduce new
> Windows-specific features? I know I'd chirp up...

We'd love to hear feedback on what features of our Windows tools you'd
like to see extended/fixed/created, etc...A better place to do that is
at http://bugs.mysql.com/ where you can file them as feature requests.

Regards,

-Mark

- --
Mark Matthews
MySQL AB, Software Development Manager - Client Connectivity
Office: +1 408 213 6557
www.mysql.com
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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

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Jonathan G. Lampe wrote:
[snip]
> And now I'm just going to go off on my own rant...
>
> People will find in serious production environments will probably find the
> default location of "C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 4.1"
> annoying. It's common these days to keep the OS on C: and put the DB on a
> separate D: partition...something which people may feel unwilling to do if
> the default location is in Program Files.
[snip]

Jonathan,

Unfortunately, SYSTEM_ROOT\Program Files is _required_ by MS to be the
default install root for any application that will ever be certified as
'logo-compliant', so maybe you need to direct your complaint to them?

See Requirement #2.5 "Install to Program Files by default" in the
'Designed for Windows XP' specification from Microsoft at
http://www.mysql.com/redir/redir.php?http://go.microsoft.com /fwlink/?LinkId=9775
if you don't believe me.

(and yes, I think it's silly too, but at least MySQL works when it's
_not_ installed in "Program Files"...I've had to work with my share of
Windows apps that _won't_ work if they're installed anywhere else :p )

-Mark
- --
Mark Matthews
MySQL AB, Software Development Manager - Client Connectivity
Office: +1 408 213 6557
www.mysql.com
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Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

--=_alternative 005B495D85256F6C_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Mark Matthews wrote on 12/15/2004 06:00:21 PM:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Jonathan G. Lampe wrote:
> [snip]
> > And now I'm just going to go off on my own rant...
> >
> > People will find in serious production environments will probably find
the
> > default location of "C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 4.1"
> > annoying. It's common these days to keep the OS on C: and put the DB
on a
[snip]
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Unfortunately, SYSTEM_ROOT\Program Files is _required_ by MS to be the
> default install root for any application that will ever be certified as
> 'logo-compliant', so maybe you need to direct your complaint to them?
>
> See Requirement #2.5 "Install to Program Files by default" in the
[snip]
>
> -Mark
> - --
> Mark Matthews
> MySQL AB, Software Development Manager - Client Connectivity
> Office: +1 408 213 6557
> www.mysql.com
The key phrase in that is "by default". As long as we have the opportunity
to customize the installation we should be able to override that default.

I haven't had much opportunity to make MSI packages but usually, if there
are enough choices (default executable location, default data location,
InnoDB or not, BDB or not, etc...), a windows installer could do a really
good job of setting up a new install. The issue gets trickier when it's
time to upgrade, especially if you are moving between versions that
require changes or conversions (permissions pre 4.1 vs. post 4.1, 4.1.0 to
4.1.3 datetime columns, pre UTF-8 to post UTF-8, etc.). Then the installer
package has to be careful to detect and perform the correct upgrade or
things will go "blooey". I think the MSI designers have their work cut out
for them.

Shawn Green
Database Administrator
Unimin Corporation - Spruce Pine
--=_alternative 005B495D85256F6C_=--

Re: Catalog problems; windows installer woes

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SGreen@unimin.com wrote:
> Mark Matthews wrote on 12/15/2004 06:00:21 PM:
>
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>Jonathan G. Lampe wrote:
>>[snip]
>>
>>>And now I'm just going to go off on my own rant...
>>>
>>>People will find in serious production environments will probably find
>
> the
>
>>>default location of "C:\Program Files\MySQL\MySQL Server 4.1"
>>>annoying. It's common these days to keep the OS on C: and put the DB
>
> on a
> [snip]
>
>>Jonathan,
>>
>>Unfortunately, SYSTEM_ROOT\Program Files is _required_ by MS to be the
>>default install root for any application that will ever be certified as
>>'logo-compliant', so maybe you need to direct your complaint to them?
>>
>>See Requirement #2.5 "Install to Program Files by default" in the
>
> [snip]
>
>> -Mark
>>- --
>>Mark Matthews
>>MySQL AB, Software Development Manager - Client Connectivity
>>Office: +1 408 213 6557
>>www.mysql.com
>
> The key phrase in that is "by default". As long as we have the opportunity
> to customize the installation we should be able to override that default.
>

You can override it:

msiexec /i mysql-4.1.8-essential-win.msi /quiet INSTALLDIR=D:\MySQL

-Mark



- --
Mark Matthews
MySQL AB, Software Development Manager - Client Connectivity
Office: +1 408 213 6557
www.mysql.com
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