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#1: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 11:56:02 by MIMF

After making a horrible mistake of migrating a large set of classic
ASP/MDB applications from IIS 5.0 to IIS 6.0, performance of the server
is nothing short of completely disastrous. It literally crashes and
hangs about once per hour on average. Sometimes it crashes 6 times in
an hour, sometimes even goes a day without a crash. Installed the
famous Jet hotfix. Installed IisCrashHang. Debugged the DMP's,
everything to NO AVAIL.

My only conclusion after 2 months of life under IIS 6.0 is an advice to
anyone considering migration to IIS 6.0 - >>>AVOID IT LIKE A PLAGUE<<<.

Report this message

#2: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 12:54:14 by Ken Schaefer

Please use IISState, and post the log produced to this group.

Frankly, anyone can post a "Windows is sh*t", or "*nix is sh*t" message -
doesn't make it true unless you've got some evidence to back it up.

Cheers
Ken

"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106045762.436028.319110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com.. .
> After making a horrible mistake of migrating a large set of classic
> ASP/MDB applications from IIS 5.0 to IIS 6.0, performance of the server
> is nothing short of completely disastrous. It literally crashes and
> hangs about once per hour on average. Sometimes it crashes 6 times in
> an hour, sometimes even goes a day without a crash. Installed the
> famous Jet hotfix. Installed IisCrashHang. Debugged the DMP's,
> everything to NO AVAIL.
>
> My only conclusion after 2 months of life under IIS 6.0 is an advice to
> anyone considering migration to IIS 6.0 - >>>AVOID IT LIKE A PLAGUE<<<.
>

Report this message

#3: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 15:20:40 by tomk (A

"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106045762.436028.319110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com.. .
> After making a horrible mistake of migrating a large set of classic
> ASP/MDB applications from IIS 5.0 to IIS 6.0, performance of the server
> is nothing short of completely disastrous. It literally crashes and
> hangs about once per hour on average. Sometimes it crashes 6 times in
> an hour, sometimes even goes a day without a crash. Installed the
> famous Jet hotfix. Installed IisCrashHang. Debugged the DMP's,
> everything to NO AVAIL.

That's strange, my ASP/SQL Server apps run like a charm.

Report this message

#4: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 16:25:59 by john cesta

On 18 Jan 2005 02:56:02 -0800, "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote:

>After making a horrible mistake of migrating a large set of classic
>ASP/MDB applications from IIS 5.0 to IIS 6.0, performance of the server
>is nothing short of completely disastrous. It literally crashes and
>hangs about once per hour on average. Sometimes it crashes 6 times in
>an hour, sometimes even goes a day without a crash. Installed the
>famous Jet hotfix. Installed IisCrashHang. Debugged the DMP's,
>everything to NO AVAIL.
>
>My only conclusion after 2 months of life under IIS 6.0 is an advice to
>anyone considering migration to IIS 6.0 - >>>AVOID IT LIKE A PLAGUE<<<.

I use it successfully. Over 5 years of hosting thousands of sites I've
never found IIS to be at fault during a high % or crash or hang. It's
always been client's code. There were a few times (i.e., nimda and
code red) that M$ provided a fix.

My advice start looking at the client code. Use iistracer to watch
your connections. Run IISState post it to the group.

John Cesta

The CPU Checker
LogFileManager - IIS LogFile Management Tool
WebPageChecker - Helps Maintain Server UpTime
DomainReportIt PRO - Helps Rebuild IIS
http://www.serverautomationtools.com

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#5: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 17:08:33 by MIMF

I'm happy for you, but I said I have problems with IIS 6 and Jet, not
IIS 6 and MSSQL.

Report this message

#6: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 17:17:24 by MIMF

First of all, I was CLEARLY refering to IIS version _six_ as a pile of
steaming shit, not just _any_ IIS.

Second, to say that IIS is never at fault just proves how little real
world experience you have with IIS.

Third, you didn't even mention hardware as a potential culprit,
identifying yourself again as an amateur. Five years is _shit_, my
friend.

And finally, if IIS was properly designed, it would not allow client's
code to crash it.

Report this message

#7: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 19:20:23 by patfilot

You are probably running into the problem described in KB 838306. Call
MS-Support and ask for the fix (the support incident is free). The issue is
with Jet DB drivers, not IIS. The issue has reproduced on all versions of
IIS, but IIS6 is the most prone to see it b/c it is the most aggressive at
scavenging resources.

Alternatively, you could install the RC for SP1. It includes the fix as
well.
Pat

"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106065044.367336.8520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> First of all, I was CLEARLY refering to IIS version _six_ as a pile of
> steaming shit, not just _any_ IIS.
>
> Second, to say that IIS is never at fault just proves how little real
> world experience you have with IIS.
>
> Third, you didn't even mention hardware as a potential culprit,
> identifying yourself again as an amateur. Five years is _shit_, my
> friend.
>
> And finally, if IIS was properly designed, it would not allow client's
> code to crash it.
>

Report this message

#8: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 21:56:20 by jeff.nospam

On 18 Jan 2005 02:56:02 -0800, "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote:

>After making a horrible mistake of migrating a large set of classic
>ASP/MDB applications from IIS 5.0 to IIS 6.0, performance of the server
>is nothing short of completely disastrous. It literally crashes and
>hangs about once per hour on average. Sometimes it crashes 6 times in
>an hour, sometimes even goes a day without a crash. Installed the
>famous Jet hotfix. Installed IisCrashHang. Debugged the DMP's,
>everything to NO AVAIL.
>
>My only conclusion after 2 months of life under IIS 6.0 is an advice to
>anyone considering migration to IIS 6.0 - >>>AVOID IT LIKE A PLAGUE<<<.

Were you looking for help in correcting your problems or just
bitching? We're willing to help you work to improve the performance,
or willing to move on and ignore your post, you're choice.

Jeff

Report this message

#9: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 22:00:09 by jeff.nospam

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:20:23 -0800, "Pat [MSFT]"
<patfilot@online.microsoft.com> wrote:

>You are probably running into the problem described in KB 838306. Call
>MS-Support and ask for the fix (the support incident is free). The issue is
>with Jet DB drivers, not IIS. The issue has reproduced on all versions of
>IIS, but IIS6 is the most prone to see it b/c it is the most aggressive at
>scavenging resources.
>
>Alternatively, you could install the RC for SP1. It includes the fix as
>well.

I'd advise against installing the SP1 RC on a production system.
While it is stable, it really isn't the final code and there may still
be issues. Definitely test it on your development or staging servers,
just not on a production system.

The Jet fix is stable and works on production servers though, if it
fixes your issue it's a good choice. And you can always install SP1
when it's actually released.

Jeff


>"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
>news:1106065044.367336.8520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> First of all, I was CLEARLY refering to IIS version _six_ as a pile of
>> steaming shit, not just _any_ IIS.
>>
>> Second, to say that IIS is never at fault just proves how little real
>> world experience you have with IIS.
>>
>> Third, you didn't even mention hardware as a potential culprit,
>> identifying yourself again as an amateur. Five years is _shit_, my
>> friend.
>>
>> And finally, if IIS was properly designed, it would not allow client's
>> code to crash it.
>>
>

Report this message

#10: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 22:05:03 by jeff.nospam

On 18 Jan 2005 08:17:24 -0800, "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote:

>First of all, I was CLEARLY refering to IIS version _six_ as a pile of
>steaming shit, not just _any_ IIS.
>
>Second, to say that IIS is never at fault just proves how little real
>world experience you have with IIS.

Yow! That'll surely get you help. John has plenty of solid
real-world IIS experience and has proven to have solid answers to
posts in this and other groups.

>Third, you didn't even mention hardware as a potential culprit,
>identifying yourself again as an amateur. Five years is _shit_, my
>friend.
>
>And finally, if IIS was properly designed, it would not allow client's
>code to crash it.

I understand your frustration, but seriously, if you want help fixing
the problem, just ask. If you're just whining, go away. At the
least, roll back to IIS5 on W2K and solve your problems in a test
environment, not a production one.

This group is here to help you, and the regulars here are very good at
that. You have a large amount of practical IIS experience here plus
direct connections to support people at Microsoft, don't screw them
over just because you're frustrated.

Jeff

Report this message

#11: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-18 23:04:17 by john cesta

On 18 Jan 2005 08:17:24 -0800, "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote:

>First of all, I was CLEARLY refering to IIS version _six_ as a pile of
>steaming shit, not just _any_ IIS.

I have hundreds of sites on IIS6.0 It runs substantially better than
5.

>
>Second, to say that IIS is never at fault just proves how little real
>world experience you have with IIS.

Thank you for the compliment? The problems were in IIS but not IIS
causing the problem. Bad code running in IIS caused the problems.

>
>Third, you didn't even mention hardware as a potential culprit,
>identifying yourself again as an amateur. Five years is _shit_, my
>friend.

OK, maybe your problem is hardware. But from your responses in this
forum to others I think you may have inherent problems that we may not
be able to diagnose.

See ya...

John "the amateur" Cesta

>
>And finally, if IIS was properly designed, it would not allow client's
>code to crash it.

Report this message

#12: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 00:32:15 by MIMF

Yeah, I'm just about to merrily take three weeks to test SPR1C on a
staging server while the production server is crashing every 10
minutes. Hooray!

The Jet hotfix didn't help.

Report this message

#13: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 00:37:05 by MIMF

Yes, whining help others avoid my mistake. The next time someone tells
me "well, I was thinking, since we're going to get a new server we
might as well install Windows Server 2003 instead of 2000. How
wonderful! How could anything could go horribly wrong, after all
Microsoft is so well known for their commitment to backward
compatibility. Yupee!", I'm going to smack him accross his face.

Report this message

#14: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 00:48:58 by Ken Schaefer

The problem is that you have done no "root cause analysis" to identify what
is causing the problem. Without knowing what the root issue, how can you say
that IIS6 is or isn't suitable for others to use.

Please use IISState as recommended by myself and others, and post the
resulting logfile here.
http://www.iisfaq.com/Default.aspx?tabid=2513

Thanks

Cheers
Ken

"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106091425.780746.74020@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Yes, whining help others avoid my mistake. The next time someone tells
> me "well, I was thinking, since we're going to get a new server we
> might as well install Windows Server 2003 instead of 2000. How
> wonderful! How could anything could go horribly wrong, after all
> Microsoft is so well known for their commitment to backward
> compatibility. Yupee!", I'm going to smack him accross his face.
>

Report this message

#15: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 02:58:32 by unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Report this message

#16: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 03:00:05 by jeff.nospam

On 18 Jan 2005 15:32:15 -0800, "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote:

>Yeah, I'm just about to merrily take three weeks to test SPR1C on a
>staging server while the production server is crashing every 10
>minutes. Hooray!
>
>The Jet hotfix didn't help.

Bummer. Revert to IIS5, find and fix the issue you're having or
switch to an alternat web server. You have choices. And likely
should have started with the testing long before this.

Again, and last time -- Do you want help fixing this?

Jeff

Report this message

#17: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 09:40:15 by Jona Gold

Jeff Cochran wrote:
> This group is here to help you, and the regulars here are very good at
> that. You have a large amount of practical IIS experience here plus
> direct connections to support people at Microsoft, don't screw them
> over just because you're frustrated.

But what about me? I asked how to get certificate from IIS > 5.0 via CGI
or ASP/JScript or if it must be ASP/VBScript but got no answer. Who
should I whine to now?

Report this message

#18: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 14:37:22 by someone

From the newsgroup, it looks like you got several answers. In general, I
would ask such questions to the ASP newsgroup
(microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general) since your question has more to do
with type/conversion than IIS configuration.

The KB article that you posted worked for me to retrieve the certificate
from ASP. What is generally confusing with scripting is in dealing with the
VARIANT data type -- some are usable in VBScript, some are usable in both,
and some are usable in neither. You want to go to a newsgroup where more
people deal with such topics.

As for access to the actual certificate from CGI -- that is not possible --
IIS has no way to get that binary data to your CGI via environment
variables. The reason that ASP has it is because there is an ISAPI
Extension function call to get that binary data. ISAPI is more native to IIS
and can take advantage of more IIS features. CGI is more generic and
portable, which tends to sacrifice functionality. Both CGI and ISAPI can
access various other certificate details like issuer, cert name, mapped
user, etc -- via names according to CGI spec.

--
//David
IIS
http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
//
"Jona Gold" <me@lurking.com> wrote in message
news:uxyPBKg$EHA.1296@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Jeff Cochran wrote:
> This group is here to help you, and the regulars here are very good at
> that. You have a large amount of practical IIS experience here plus
> direct connections to support people at Microsoft, don't screw them
> over just because you're frustrated.

But what about me? I asked how to get certificate from IIS > 5.0 via CGI
or ASP/JScript or if it must be ASP/VBScript but got no answer. Who
should I whine to now?

Report this message

#19: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 14:59:33 by someone

Getting back to your issue:

If you think the problem is with IIS or other Microsoft software, you
contact PSS to have them look at it. IF the issue is with supported
Microsoft software, you will not be charged any money and should have the
satisfaction of getting some bugs debugged and reported (and likely fixed).
At minimum, this should help any future users avoid your current situation.

On the other hand, you could just continue with the current thread, which
certainly is another way to help future users to avoid your current
situation. It is your decision as to whether you really want to help other
people or not.

It would be useful information to know if you are running in IIS5
Compatibility Mode or IIS6 native Worker Process Isolation Mode. While IIS5
Compatibility Mode is not 100% like IIS5, it should be close enough to
satisfy most common application issues.

If you really find IIS "crashing" it should be simple to use IIS State,
ADPLUS, or any similar crash-dump tool to obtain the offending stack trace,
post it to this newsgroup with IISSTATE or such title so that people can
analyze it, and you can quickly get confirmation as to whether the problem
is in IIS, other WS03 software, or your code. See:
http://www.iisfaq.com/default.aspx?view=P197
http://www.microsoft.com/ddk/debugging

Finally, I hope that you realize that testing an upgrade on staging servers
prior to production is a useful exercise to avoid such situations. If you
lack the physical server, you can consider trying Virtual PC/Server to run a
virtual image of your machine through the proposed upgrade and see what
happens afterwards -- with no risk to your existing setup. See:
http://www.microsoft.com/VirtualPC
http://www.microsoft.com/VirtualServer
Peer Newsgroup Support: microsoft.public.virtualpc or
microsoft.public.virtualserver -- they are both very active with a lot of
smart folks answering tough questions.


There are lots of options available to resolve your issue. I hope you will
consider some of them.

--
//David
IIS
http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
//
"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106091425.780746.74020@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yes, whining help others avoid my mistake. The next time someone tells
me "well, I was thinking, since we're going to get a new server we
might as well install Windows Server 2003 instead of 2000. How
wonderful! How could anything could go horribly wrong, after all
Microsoft is so well known for their commitment to backward
compatibility. Yupee!", I'm going to smack him accross his face.

Report this message

#20: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 18:25:46 by MIMF

> It would be useful information to know if you are running in IIS5
> Compatibility Mode or IIS6 native Worker Process Isolation Mode.
While IIS5
> Compatibility Mode is not 100% like IIS5, it should be close enough
to
> satisfy most common application issues.

It's running WPIM, because one of third party COM components would not
work in compatibility mode.

> If you really find IIS "crashing" it should be simple to use IIS
State,
> ADPLUS, or any similar crash-dump tool to obtain the offending stack
trace,
> post it to this newsgroup with IISSTATE or such title so that people
can
> analyze it, and you can quickly get confirmation as to whether the
problem
> is in IIS, other WS03 software, or your code. See:
> http://www.iisfaq.com/default.aspx?view=P197
> http://www.microsoft.com/ddk/debugging

I already use IisCrashHang agent and, aside from it being unreliable
and unintuitive, managed to produce some dumps, a collection of huge
DMP files, which, when opened from WinDbg, did not help me pinpoint the
problem in any way. I also installed the Jet hotfix (4.00.8704.0) which
didn't do anything.

> Finally, I hope that you realize that testing an upgrade on staging
servers
> prior to production is a useful exercise to avoid such situations.
If you
>

This situation would not be avoided if I used a staging server. The
applications work fine, except that IIS occasionally crashes ("crash" -
which I see you put in quotes, is a real crash, something that makes
IIS stop working and Microsoft's IISCrashHang agent write a log file
that begins with the word "Crash", so let's stop pretending IIS doesn't
ever crash).

Report this message

#21: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 18:35:46 by MIMF

> And anyone running a web server with a MS Access back end is asking
for
> trouble. At best you can get one or two sessions connecting to it
> without a problem, but when 8+ active users start hitting it you will

> have all sorts of little problems.
>
> If you can use MS Access you can use XML or SQL Server, or even
better,
> since Access is so far down the line, you could just install MySQL
and
> not have any problems.

Thank you, Einstein, it's just that there's this little problem of 2 MB
of ASP code to convert to whatever other database you now think will
'not have any problems'. MySQL is even worse pile of steaming shit, and
since when is XML a database technology? Please spare us your advice.

Other than that, those applications worked with far more than 8
concurrent users for years on Windows 2000.

Report this message

#22: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 20:21:20 by jeff.nospam

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:40:15 +0100, Jona Gold <me@lurking.com> wrote:

>Jeff Cochran wrote:
>> This group is here to help you, and the regulars here are very good at
>> that. You have a large amount of practical IIS experience here plus
>> direct connections to support people at Microsoft, don't screw them
>> over just because you're frustrated.
>
>But what about me? I asked how to get certificate from IIS > 5.0 via CGI
>or ASP/JScript or if it must be ASP/VBScript but got no answer. Who
>should I whine to now?

Start a new thread for this, and explain what you mean by "get
certificate".

Jeff

Report this message

#23: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 21:09:18 by unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Report this message

#24: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-19 22:21:06 by someone

I actually would not use IISCHAgent and use IIS State (URL posted earlier)
and post the log here so that someone who knows about IIS and debugging can
make an assessment. If you got the right DMP of the crashing process, had
symbols, and knew what you are debugging, you can make the determination as
well.

In other words -- if you have real crashes, you should be able to easily get
stack traces and send it to someone, either PSS or post it here. Until you
do that, no progress can be made on your issue.

Regarding "crash" -- let me clarify what is going on and what I mean.

In WPIM, "IIS" literally runs as a seperate process (svchost.exe), and
individual w3wp.exe are launched to run all user-code. This svchost.exe just
monitors w3wp.exe health and if w3wp.exe ever crashes, a new one will be
brought up in accordance to Application Pool settings. Thus, from the
perspective of serving web requests, IIS simply cannot crash and stop
accepting requests -- only user code in w3wp.exe can crash, and svchost.exe
will keep bringing up new w3wp.exe to handle requests -- so that is not
considered "IIS crashing" (which traditionally meant that IIS will not serve
any more requests). Of course, the user code that is crashing may have
other dependencies and hang upon restart, but that is a problem with the
user code.

Of course, users are rarely able to distinguish between this, so we
generally just call it "IIS crashed" so as to not confuse the user's
understanding. The key thing to recognize is that IIS, like Windows, is a
platform that runs applications -- so just as you say "Word crashed" and not
"Windows crashed" when your word processor crashes, you'd say "user code
crashed" vs "IIS crashed" when your web application crashes.

Another thing to note -- running in WPIM, IIS will only allow a certain
number of application crashes to happen before it completely disables the
application and start returning 503 and log event log messages -- this is a
safety mechanism, meant to alert the administrator to potential problem and
stop potential resource drain caused by repeatedly restarting applications.
The administrator can configure health monitoring/recycling so as to hobble
along (by recycling the application pool via various metrics) while
debugging the issue. I suggest you take advantage of this feature to let
IIS automatically restart your broken applications.

Now, it is possible for you to run code in inetinfo.exe via other services
like FTP, SMTP, NNTP, etc (no code from HTTP/S, though), which crash
inetinfo.exe, and that will unfortunately still halt IIS because it depends
on it for IIS configuration. If you can show me the stack traces of all
IIS6-related processes (w3wp.exe, inetinfo.exe, svchost.exe) of an instance
where literally IIS will not respond to handle a request (excluding
Application Pool offline 503s and stopping website 400s -- which are user
configuration issues), that will likely be very interesting to PSS as a
possible IIS bug.

If you are seeing anything else, like a 500 -- that likely indicates user
code somewhere. You will need to clearly describe:
1. What other applications are running on the server
2. Any ISAPI Filter DLLs or ISAPI Extension DLLs configured
3. Type of web application and all related technologies (ASP, ASP.Net, MSMQ,
SQL, Access, ODBC, PHP, JSP, Perl, MySQL, etc) that the web application uses

--
//David
IIS
http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
//
"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106155546.468692.66550@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> It would be useful information to know if you are running in IIS5
> Compatibility Mode or IIS6 native Worker Process Isolation Mode.
While IIS5
> Compatibility Mode is not 100% like IIS5, it should be close enough
to
> satisfy most common application issues.

It's running WPIM, because one of third party COM components would not
work in compatibility mode.

> If you really find IIS "crashing" it should be simple to use IIS
State,
> ADPLUS, or any similar crash-dump tool to obtain the offending stack
trace,
> post it to this newsgroup with IISSTATE or such title so that people
can
> analyze it, and you can quickly get confirmation as to whether the
problem
> is in IIS, other WS03 software, or your code. See:
> http://www.iisfaq.com/default.aspx?view=P197
> http://www.microsoft.com/ddk/debugging

I already use IisCrashHang agent and, aside from it being unreliable
and unintuitive, managed to produce some dumps, a collection of huge
DMP files, which, when opened from WinDbg, did not help me pinpoint the
problem in any way. I also installed the Jet hotfix (4.00.8704.0) which
didn't do anything.

> Finally, I hope that you realize that testing an upgrade on staging
servers
> prior to production is a useful exercise to avoid such situations.
If you
>

This situation would not be avoided if I used a staging server. The
applications work fine, except that IIS occasionally crashes ("crash" -
which I see you put in quotes, is a real crash, something that makes
IIS stop working and Microsoft's IISCrashHang agent write a log file
that begins with the word "Crash", so let's stop pretending IIS doesn't
ever crash).

Report this message

#25: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-20 08:10:16 by Jona Gold

Thank you very much for your time David. I'll try my luck in the
suggested newsgroup.

Report this message

#26: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-20 09:45:30 by MIMF

Only a total moron would suggest (and keep on suggesting) that XML
files are an equivalent of a relational database. Thank you for your
efforts very much, please keep your expertise to yourself, at least on
this thread.

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#27: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-20 09:59:45 by MIMF

Thank you for your detailed description.

No, I don't have either SMTP, NNTP nor FTP services running.

Judging by what you said, the way this IIS 6.0 instance crashes
indicates a problem with inetinfo.exe, not any of the application
pools. That's because IIS completely stops responding, but not as if
there's no IIS running at all (in which case the client would get
'connection refused' and IE would display the generic error straight
away), it looks like IIS accepts the TCP connection but 'waits'
forever. When I had analyzed the DMP files, I concentrated on WPIM
executables, not the inetinfo.exe, which now I see was probably a
mistake. Another reason why I think inetinfo.exe crashes is because
stopping and restarting the service (when it 'crashes') from
services.msc takes an age, and I have to use iisreset which forcefully
restarts it if it won't (and it normally won't) restart gracefully.

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#28: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-20 12:53:56 by unknown

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#29: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-20 16:36:31 by MIMF

"A mix of XML files and __small__ databases in Access" will solve
concurrency problems? XML files are text files, concurrent updates to
them are a fucking nightmare. And what's a SMALL access database, and
how do you force your database to be SMALL? You're fucking insane.
Please shut up before your embarass yourself even more, if that's
possible.

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#30: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-20 19:10:08 by unknown

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#31: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-21 02:10:57 by someone

If you are running in WPIM and inetinfo.exe is the culprit, then you will
want to get a stack trace for inetinfo.exe (using ADPLUS, IIS State,
IISCHAgent, etc) of the crash and contact PSS with it.

If you are running in IIS5 Compatibility mode, then crashing in inetinfo.exe
may indicate bugs in user code running in "low isolation" or from the
"InProcessIsapis" list (as well as IIS issue). You will want to first get a
stack trace, make sure it's not your code (PSS calls for your crashs cost
you money), and then contact PSS with it if it looks like Microsoft code
issues.

In all cases, it is quite important for you to get a stack trace of the
actual process crash in question and have it analyzed to make progress. I
wouldn't try random "guesses" with installing various QFE -- always just
capture the crash, debug/patch it, and repeat.

--
//David
IIS
http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
//
"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106211585.173566.98900@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thank you for your detailed description.

No, I don't have either SMTP, NNTP nor FTP services running.

Judging by what you said, the way this IIS 6.0 instance crashes
indicates a problem with inetinfo.exe, not any of the application
pools. That's because IIS completely stops responding, but not as if
there's no IIS running at all (in which case the client would get
'connection refused' and IE would display the generic error straight
away), it looks like IIS accepts the TCP connection but 'waits'
forever. When I had analyzed the DMP files, I concentrated on WPIM
executables, not the inetinfo.exe, which now I see was probably a
mistake. Another reason why I think inetinfo.exe crashes is because
stopping and restarting the service (when it 'crashes') from
services.msc takes an age, and I have to use iisreset which forcefully
restarts it if it won't (and it normally won't) restart gracefully.

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#32: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-21 09:19:40 by MIMF

With your XML gaffe you already shown how pathetically little you know
about this topic, so YOUR OPINION about Access and web IS WORTH SHIT.
Refrain from posting on this topic, asshole.

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#33: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-21 12:12:30 by MIMF

So you're saying IISCHAgent is no good when debugging IIS? I installed
it because various Microsoft and non-Microsoft sources recommended it,
but, based on your recommendation, I have now installed IISState and
WinDbg (latest version) on the server.

Upon installation, I copied the necessary DLLs from WinDbg folders into
IISState folder, uninstalled IISCHAgent, and started IIS.

I went to CMD and run

iisstate -p 3572 -hc -d

where 3572 is the PID of IIS.EXE.

I got these warnings:

C:\Program Files\IIS Resources\IISState>iisstate -p 3572 -hc -d

Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.4.0004.4
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

sxd av
WARNING: The debugger does not have a current process or thread
WARNING: Many commands will not work

and then a long list of DLLs.

I then waited. Sure enough, after a bit of time, this appeared:

(df4.1358): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1304): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1358): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1358): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1304): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)

and so on.

The "C:\Program Files\IIS Resources\IISState\output" folder is empty.
Why?

Thank you.



David Wang [Msft] wrote:
> If you are running in WPIM and inetinfo.exe is the culprit, then you
will
> want to get a stack trace for inetinfo.exe (using ADPLUS, IIS State,
> IISCHAgent, etc) of the crash and contact PSS with it.
>
> If you are running in IIS5 Compatibility mode, then crashing in
inetinfo.exe
> may indicate bugs in user code running in "low isolation" or from the
> "InProcessIsapis" list (as well as IIS issue). You will want to
first get a
> stack trace, make sure it's not your code (PSS calls for your crashs
cost
> you money), and then contact PSS with it if it looks like Microsoft
code
> issues.
>
> In all cases, it is quite important for you to get a stack trace of
the
> actual process crash in question and have it analyzed to make
progress. I
> wouldn't try random "guesses" with installing various QFE -- always
just
> capture the crash, debug/patch it, and repeat.
>
> --
> //David
> IIS
> http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> //
> "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
> news:1106211585.173566.98900@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you for your detailed description.
>
> No, I don't have either SMTP, NNTP nor FTP services running.
>
> Judging by what you said, the way this IIS 6.0 instance crashes
> indicates a problem with inetinfo.exe, not any of the application
> pools. That's because IIS completely stops responding, but not as if
> there's no IIS running at all (in which case the client would get
> 'connection refused' and IE would display the generic error straight
> away), it looks like IIS accepts the TCP connection but 'waits'
> forever. When I had analyzed the DMP files, I concentrated on WPIM
> executables, not the inetinfo.exe, which now I see was probably a
> mistake. Another reason why I think inetinfo.exe crashes is because
> stopping and restarting the service (when it 'crashes') from
> services.msc takes an age, and I have to use iisreset which
forcefully
> restarts it if it won't (and it normally won't) restart gracefully.

Report this message

#34: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-21 12:26:05 by someone

A crash hasn't happened yet, so there is nothing to log. You want to do
whatever you need to get IIS into the hanging state that you described.

FYI: Exceptions are thrown and handled in a process all the time -- they are
not all bad. Just certain ones are known to be "bad" -- like 0xC0000005.
The debugger will inform you of the problematic ones when it happens.

--
//David
IIS
http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
//
"MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
news:1106305950.839014.294840@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com.. .
So you're saying IISCHAgent is no good when debugging IIS? I installed
it because various Microsoft and non-Microsoft sources recommended it,
but, based on your recommendation, I have now installed IISState and
WinDbg (latest version) on the server.

Upon installation, I copied the necessary DLLs from WinDbg folders into
IISState folder, uninstalled IISCHAgent, and started IIS.

I went to CMD and run

iisstate -p 3572 -hc -d

where 3572 is the PID of IIS.EXE.

I got these warnings:

C:\Program Files\IIS Resources\IISState>iisstate -p 3572 -hc -d

Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.4.0004.4
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

sxd av
WARNING: The debugger does not have a current process or thread
WARNING: Many commands will not work

and then a long list of DLLs.

I then waited. Sure enough, after a bit of time, this appeared:

(df4.1358): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1304): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1358): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1358): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)
(df4.1304): Unknown exception - code 000006b5 (first chance)

and so on.

The "C:\Program Files\IIS Resources\IISState\output" folder is empty.
Why?

Thank you.



David Wang [Msft] wrote:
> If you are running in WPIM and inetinfo.exe is the culprit, then you
will
> want to get a stack trace for inetinfo.exe (using ADPLUS, IIS State,
> IISCHAgent, etc) of the crash and contact PSS with it.
>
> If you are running in IIS5 Compatibility mode, then crashing in
inetinfo.exe
> may indicate bugs in user code running in "low isolation" or from the
> "InProcessIsapis" list (as well as IIS issue). You will want to
first get a
> stack trace, make sure it's not your code (PSS calls for your crashs
cost
> you money), and then contact PSS with it if it looks like Microsoft
code
> issues.
>
> In all cases, it is quite important for you to get a stack trace of
the
> actual process crash in question and have it analyzed to make
progress. I
> wouldn't try random "guesses" with installing various QFE -- always
just
> capture the crash, debug/patch it, and repeat.
>
> --
> //David
> IIS
> http://blogs.msdn.com/David.Wang
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> //
> "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote in message
> news:1106211585.173566.98900@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you for your detailed description.
>
> No, I don't have either SMTP, NNTP nor FTP services running.
>
> Judging by what you said, the way this IIS 6.0 instance crashes
> indicates a problem with inetinfo.exe, not any of the application
> pools. That's because IIS completely stops responding, but not as if
> there's no IIS running at all (in which case the client would get
> 'connection refused' and IE would display the generic error straight
> away), it looks like IIS accepts the TCP connection but 'waits'
> forever. When I had analyzed the DMP files, I concentrated on WPIM
> executables, not the inetinfo.exe, which now I see was probably a
> mistake. Another reason why I think inetinfo.exe crashes is because
> stopping and restarting the service (when it 'crashes') from
> services.msc takes an age, and I have to use iisreset which
forcefully
> restarts it if it won't (and it normally won't) restart gracefully.

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#35: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-21 12:56:28 by unknown

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#36: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-22 16:07:26 by MIMF

What the hell would you know about what would a professional designer
decide? You can't tell an XML file from a relational database yet you
think you can give ANYONE advice. Just shut up, man.

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#37: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-22 18:03:46 by jeff.nospam

On 22 Jan 2005 07:07:26 -0800, "MIMF" <mimf@onvol.net> wrote:

>What the hell would you know about what would a professional designer
>decide? You can't tell an XML file from a relational database yet you
>think you can give ANYONE advice. Just shut up, man.

Yep. Plonk.

Jeff

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#38: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-22 19:02:59 by unknown

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#39: Re: IIS 6 is a steaming pile of shit

Posted on 2005-01-22 22:06:56 by MIMF

Apart from being ignorant, you're a liar too. Look what YOU SAID:

--- XML can work wonders as a small database

and then

--- Conversion, depending on the size of the database to XML
--- files is actually simple and could be a viable solution.

_CONVERTING_ a DATABASE to XML files... and _actually_ SIMPLE! And
_VIABLE_! If it wasn't funny, it would be sad. Anyone who has EVER
worked with an SQL database and XML will tell you that, although there
are simple ways of exchanging data between the two, they are EVERYTHING
but replacements for each other. Not to mention that I said that the
applications I was talking about consist of 2 MB of ASP code that works
with Access database, and now this retard suggests someone 'converts'
all this code to work with a bunch of XML files. NEVER MIND that 90% of
tables have tens of thousands of records. NEVER MIND that you can't do
SQL JOINs between tables and XML files. NEVER MIND that it would take 2
years to convert all that code, so that it would work 100 times worse
than it did in the first place. NEVER MIND that XML files are text
files so it's very difficult to make sure concurrent updates to them
are safe, not to mention horribly slow performance. NEVER MIND that
everything worked like a dream on Windows 2000 with an average of 50
concurrent users. Why do you talk about things you have NO CLUE about,
retard? I bet you never wrote a line of either SQL or XML in your
miserable life. So shut up finally and stop embarassing yourself.

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