Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

I have a program that generates an HTML mail which is currently around
96KB - which is acceptable I think.

However when I send it the resulting mail is over 200KB which is too
big.

I've tried sending the mail with Outlook 2000 (my mail client) and blat
(freeware utility) with no difference.

Can anybody explain what's going on and whether it's possible for me to
get the email down to be near the size of the HTML file?

Please don't engage in a plain text vs html mail debate - not
interested ;-)

Thanks

David

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

dxd@ptc.com wrote:
> I have a program that generates an HTML mail which is currently around
> 96KB - which is acceptable I think.
>
> However when I send it the resulting mail is over 200KB which is too
> big.
>
> I've tried sending the mail with Outlook 2000 (my mail client) and blat
> (freeware utility) with no difference.
>
> Can anybody explain what's going on and whether it's possible for me to
> get the email down to be near the size of the HTML file?
>
> Please don't engage in a plain text vs html mail debate - not
> interested ;-)

Could it be that it's sending both plain text and html version?

--
William Park , Toronto, Canada
Slackware Linux -- because it works.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

dxd@ptc.com writes:

> Please don't engage in a plain text vs html mail debate - not
> interested ;-)

Spoil sport.

--
David Magda , http://www.magda.ca/
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

On comp.mail.misc, in
<1111676706.792881.22090@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"dxd@ptc.com" wrote:


> I have a program that generates an HTML mail which is currently
> around 96KB - which is acceptable I think.

My filter sends any mail from strangers (anyone not passlisted)
that is over 20K straight to /dev/null and I don't accept HTML
mail at all.

Nor am I alone in my choices.

>
> However when I send it the resulting mail is over 200KB which
> is too big.
>
> I've tried sending the mail with Outlook 2000 (my mail client)
> and blat (freeware utility) with no difference.
>
> Can anybody explain what's going on and whether it's possible
> for me to get the email down to be near the size of the HTML
> file?
>
> Please don't engage in a plain text vs html mail debate - not
> interested ;-)

Your interests do not determine what I post on the Usenet.

HTML mail stinks.

You sound like a spammer to me. Who else would regularly send
a fixed size (huge) of HTML mail?

Spammers stink.

Stay out of my mailboxes.

That's an order I can and will enforce.

AC

--
Zero-Tolerance for Spam and Trollmail
Pass-list --> Block-List --> Challenge-Response
http://tinyurl.com/2t5kp

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

I don't know why I bother to respond, but I just can't help myself.

I am not a spammer, I send no unsolicited mail to anybody, I run a
Newsletter within our company that I send to interested parties, none
of whom object to HTML mail.

However I would like to minimise the size of the mail that I send,
hence the request for helpful suggestions.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

On 24 Mar 2005 11:49:19 -0800, thedavidsons@tiscali.fr wrote:

> I don't know why I bother to respond, but I just can't help myself.
>
> I am not a spammer, I send no unsolicited mail to anybody, I run a
> Newsletter within our company that I send to interested parties, none
> of whom object to HTML mail.
>
> However I would like to minimise the size of the mail that I send,
> hence the request for helpful suggestions.
>

Well, you'll not get any from Alan. Try a google on his name, bigfoot and
xena (yes, as in the warrior princess). Sam will also likely chime in with
a link soon. Alan thinks everyone is either a spammer, a sock of Sam's or
both.

--
_________________________________________
NetworkElf: Super Genius, Computer Guy, Harley Owner!
Blindly serving the covert purposes of the
criminal-minded maniac behind Spews since 2003.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

thedavidsons@tiscali.fr wrote:
> I don't know why I bother to respond, but I just can't help myself.
>
> I am not a spammer, I send no unsolicited mail to anybody, I run a
> Newsletter within our company that I send to interested parties, none
> of whom object to HTML mail.
>
> However I would like to minimise the size of the mail that I send,
> hence the request for helpful suggestions.

After waiting 48 hours for answer post URL to ziped html newsletter.

--
Andrzej [en:Andrew] Adam Filip anfi@priv.onet.pl anfi@xl.wp.pl

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

On comp.mail.misc, in , "Alan Connor" wrote:
>


w3m http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search

Results 1 - 4 of 4 for Searched all groups author:
thedavidsons@tiscali.fr. (0.09 seconds)

That's in the last year.

Obvious troll sockpuppet.

The post goes unread and has been deleted from the local cache
I read from.

The alias has been killfiled.

AC


--
Zero-Tolerance for Spam and Trollmail
Pass-list --> Block-List --> Challenge-Response
http://tinyurl.com/2t5kp

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.

--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-24884-1111709958-0002
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

thedavidsons@tiscali.fr writes:

> I don't know why I bother to respond, but I just can't help myself.
>
> I am not a spammer, I send no unsolicited mail to anybody, I run a
> Newsletter within our company that I send to interested parties, none
> of whom object to HTML mail.
>
> However I would like to minimise the size of the mail that I send,
> hence the request for helpful suggestions.

Don't worry about it. The kookbag you've replied to is our resident village
idiot, who'm we call Beavis, around here.

See http://angel.1jh.com/nanae/kooks/alanconnor.shtml for more information.

Beavis is personal friend of Bigfoot (http://tinyurl.com/6dkxn); he was also
recently kidnapped and molested by Xena, the Warrior Princess
(http://tinyurl.com/4otkh).

Beavis belongs to a UFO cult (http://tinyurl.com/2hhdx and
http://tinyurl.com/24jqm), he's also a dentist (http://tinyurl.com/3h6a5).
I'm sure your heart was broken after Beavis allegedly killfiled you
(http://angel.1jh.com/nanae/kooks/alanconnor.shtml#Killfiled For).




--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-24884-1111709958-0002
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCQ1kGx9p3GYHlUOIRAnXrAJ9u6J90u3Gluq4IpyNKEJAbgDD4DwCf U1Ae
Ikcvzy9nlnzpqhi0GPIdNUw=
=IyoR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-24884-1111709958-0002--

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.

--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-24884-1111710191-0003
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Beavis writes:

> On comp.mail.misc, in , "Alan Connor" wrote:
>>
>
>
> w3m http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
>
> Results 1 - 4 of 4 for Searched all groups author:
> thedavidsons@tiscali.fr. (0.09 seconds)
>
> That's in the last year.

Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 423,000 for beavis. (0.14 seconds)

That's also in the last year, or so.

> Obvious troll sockpuppet.

Obvious Beavis.

> The post goes unread and has been deleted from the local cache
> I read from.

Beavis, would you mind sharing your patch to slrn which creates some kind of
a "local cache"?

> The alias has been killfiled.

How about posting your killfile, Beavis, you know the one that you use with
procmail in order to replace the contents of all objectionable posts with
'X's?

Whatever.



--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-24884-1111710191-0003
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCQ1nvx9p3GYHlUOIRAq1ZAJ9mdOf6b6I8UmZQA6kHEaGIE22cLgCf X01C
lpUT4thwWd+mBmqJUe/3Y9g=
=U8x/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-24884-1111710191-0003--

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

In article , Alan
Connor says...

> You sound like a spammer to me. Who else would regularly send
> a fixed size (huge) of HTML mail?

Hey, Alan! I thought spammers hated C/R. I just stumbled on one who pitches
a "spam filter buster", and who actually uses one; Spam Arrest. Imagine
that! A spammer who loves C/R!!!

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 dxd@ptc.com wrote:
> I have a program that generates an HTML mail which is currently around
> 96KB - which is acceptable I think.

HTML is for web pages; not e-mail. Practically 90% of all HTML e-mail adds
NOTHING over its "text/plain" equivalent form and is thus a complete waste of
resources. You think wrong, unless you are really generating within that 10%
of HTML e-mail that isn't equivalent to "text/plain."

> However when I send it the resulting mail is over 200KB which is too
> big.

All those mailboxes you're spamming?

> I've tried sending the mail with Outlook 2000 (my mail client) and blat
> (freeware utility) with no difference.
>
> Can anybody explain what's going on and whether it's possible for me to
> get the email down to be near the size of the HTML file?
>
> Please don't engage in a plain text vs html mail debate - not
> interested ;-)

Too bad. You raised the issue.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, NormanM wrote:
> In article , Alan
> Connor says...
>
> > You sound like a spammer to me. Who else would regularly send
> > a fixed size (huge) of HTML mail?
>
> Hey, Alan! I thought spammers hated C/R. I just stumbled on one who pitches
> a "spam filter buster", and who actually uses one; Spam Arrest. Imagine
> that! A spammer who loves C/R!!!

Of course spammers LOVE C/R. They can be manipulated into the equivalent of an
open-relay.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

Well I think HTML mail is great and what's even better is knowing that
all you hobbits will be choking on your cornflakes in indignation. btw
thanks for nothing with the responses.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

dxd@ptc.com wrote:
[deleted]
> btw thanks for nothing with the responses.

Have you looked at the 'raw' mail message? [1] Perhaps something
encodes it in some 'stupid', wasteful, format. Quoted-Printable comes to
mind.

[1] IIRC, Outlook can not show the 'raw' format [2] of a message, at least
not if the server is MS-Exchange, so you may have to use a different
client and/or server to look ar the 'raw' format.

[2] Outlook *Express* calls this "Message Source", i.e. Properties ->
Details -> Message Source... Normal people call it mbox format. :-)

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

Thanks, I'll check this in Outlook Express. but if there is wasteful
data I don't know what I can do about it - it would have to be added by
our corporate Exchange mail server wouldn't it?

Or might it be added by the mail client? I know Outlook 2003 has an
option to reduce size of HTML mails, but I don't have that. My
assumption was that any additional data must be added by the server
because I tried sending the same HTML file using the free "blat"
command line client, and got the same results - i.e. a doubling of the
mail size.

Are there public mail servers that I could test sending an HTML mail
from? I thought about my MSN mail account, but can't seem to send HTML
mail from there.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

What I discovered is that it seems to be the incoming email client that
is causing the problem. I can send the same 95KB HTML email to two
addresses, one opens it with Outlook 2000 and the other with
Thunderbird. The Thunderbird client sees the email as 100KB (approx the
same size as the HTML file) and the Outlook 2000 client sees it as
200KB.

Strange but I guess there's nothing I can do about people's email
clients.

Re: Why is HTML mail much bigger than the HTML file being sent?

dxd@ptc.com wrote:
> What I discovered is that it seems to be the incoming email client that
> is causing the problem. I can send the same 95KB HTML email to two
> addresses, one opens it with Outlook 2000 and the other with
> Thunderbird. The Thunderbird client sees the email as 100KB (approx the
> same size as the HTML file) and the Outlook 2000 client sees it as
> 200KB.

Well, a factor of two is quite much, but if it is encoded in a
'stupid' format, the encoding could increase the size by a factor of
two, so perhaps Thunderbird shows the *decoded* size and perhaps Outlook
2000 shows the *encoded* size, i.e. a apple-to-oranges comparison.

I don't have Outlook (for testing), but Outlook Express gives *both*
sizes in different places:

I sent myself a 339,968 bytes .exe file. In the "Attach:" line of the
received message it says "...exe (340KB)" which is (about) the
real/unencoded/decoded size, but File -> Properties -> Size: says
"456KB" which is the encoded size (checked by saving the mail as an .eml
file). Since Outlook (at least Outlook XP) only has the latter, I assume
that the (Outlook) recipient is looking at the *encoded* size, which
probably solves the confusion.

> Strange but I guess there's nothing I can do about people's email
> clients.

Again: Just look at the 'raw' (= encoded) message to see how big that
really is. If that is 200KB, your 'mystery' is solved.