Need help looking for email client

With all the email programs available, you would think that
authors would make it easy to figure out what their programs
do differently. From my examination of email client web
sites, it doesn't work that way. It seems like a number of
email client developers don't really want my money very
hard.

I now use Outlook Express. I have used it since I switched
from Netscape 4 Messenger because Netscape didn't support
multiple email accounts. That and Windows
Messaging/Microsoft fax are the only application programs I
use from Bill Gates. I wish I didn't use any.

My number one requirement is changing the subject line of
incoming messages. I get a lot of messages with subjects
like =FEFax message received=FE from RingCentral that I wish I
could make meaningful when I store them. This may force me
to move to Outlook Gross. unless I can find something equiv-
alent.

Plug: I recommend RingCentral.

My other requirements include the following. Most of these I
can't figure out from client program websites whether pro-
grams include them or not.

2 Compatibility with black background Windows color
schemes. Several programs I have tried have hardcoded black
fonts, which produce black text on a black background. A
lot of developers pay little heed to compatibility with the
Windows color scheme system. I credit Gates for following
his own standards in this regard.

3 Backupable by simply copying files without the need of a
separate back up program.

4 Rules that can be applied manually, so I can sort mes-
sages in directories after I have read them in the in box,
like in Outlook Express.

5 The space bar key can be made to do a screen down, like
in browsers.

6 The back space key can be made to do screen up, like
Netscape did.

7 . In messages listing the back space key goes up a direc-
tory level, like in Windows Explorer.

8 Personal message stores like in Outlook. I create a new
one every year and eventually delete them.

9 Compatibility with Microsoft Fax, unlike Edora.

10. A spelling checker or one compatible with MS checkers,
like the one in Outlook and Microsoft works or WordPerfect
office. You can find cheap copies of the latter with the MS
checker, which works in OE.

It would be nice if the client would run Microsoft Fax. It
would be nice not have to use Windows Messaging for outgoing
faxes. Although from experience I think there is some merit
is keeping outgoing faxes in a separate system.

There some other things that email client developers think
important but do not concern me.

1 HTML mail. I don't want it to avoid web bugs.

2 Spam filters. Not on my list at the moment, because the
spammers haven't found me yet. I know it's my ISP because I
do have one account with SPAM, and it averages 5 a day,
compared with zero to less than one per day in my other
accounts. Though I admit they may some day. Also I might
prefer a separate spam filter.

3 Newsgroups. I like Xnews. Also, I see a reason for
separate email and news programs. Backing up email concerns
me, while I couldn't care less about backing my newsgroups.
I would prefer not to waste space on email backup CD ROMs
with news group headers and articles.

Is there a email client that I have missed?

Re: Need help looking for email client

In article <1111831742.710341.144470@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, says..=
..



> My number one requirement is changing the subject line of
> incoming messages. I get a lot of messages with subjects
> like =FEFax message received=FE from RingCentral that I wish I
> could make meaningful when I store them. This may force me
> to move to Outlook Gross. unless I can find something equiv-
> alent.

I wasn't aware that MS Outlook Express would let you change the Subject:=20
line when you stored messages. I just tried it. I can't. I can use File >=
=20
Save As..., edit the Subject: line, then store it as "***.eml". I can do=20
that with Pegasus Mail. I can Reply, or Forward a message, alter the=20
Subject: line, then store the altered message; both in MSOE and in PM. But=
=20
neither lets me open the message, alter the Subject: line, then close the=
=20
message. I can open the message file in the message store with Notepad for=
=20
Pegasus Mail messages. I can't do that with MSOE because the ***.dbx files=
=20
used by MSOE are some weird MS-Only format.

Mozilla Thunderbird has similar behavior.



> My other requirements include the following. Most of these I
> can't figure out from client program websites whether pro-
> grams include them or not.

> 2. Compatibility with black background Windows color
> schemes. Several programs I have tried have hardcoded black
> fonts, which produce black text on a black background. A
> lot of developers pay little heed to compatibility with the
> Windows color scheme system. I credit Gates for following
> his own standards in this regard.

Just the message text, or the application menus? Pegasus Mail does allow fo=
r=20
text coloration within the messages.

Mozilla Thunderbird is skinable.

> 3. Backupable by simply copying files without the need of a
> separate back up program.

Pegasus Mail again.
Mozilla Thunderbird, as well.

> 4. Rules that can be applied manually, so I can sort mes-
> sages in directories after I have read them in the in box,
> like in Outlook Express.

Pegasus Mail. Well, after a fashion. I do it by creating a specific rule se=
t =20
which I attach to a folder for action on opening, or closing the folder.=20
Either way works. You can even create different rule sets for different=20
purposes.

Mozilla Thunderbird has a "Run now" button on the filter dialogue menu.

> 5. The space bar key can be made to do a screen down, like
> in browsers.

In Pegasus Mail the space bar does scan down.
In Mozilla Thunderbird the space bar does scan down.

> 6. The back space key can be made to do screen up, like
> Netscape did.

I can't find a button to scan up, but I did find a web site about adding=20
custom buttons. I will have to check into that for more information.

I can't find that option for Mozilla Thunderbird; but it is open source, an=
d=20
somebody may already have an add-in available to do that.

> 7 . In messages listing the back space key goes up a direc-
> tory level, like in Windows Explorer.

Back space doesn't work as you describe in Windows Explorer; it jumps my=20
folder pane listings, not my file view listings. In any case, the up/down=
=20
arrow keys scan up/down the message listing in Pegasus Mail. And also in=20
Mozilla Thunderbird.

> 8. Personal message stores like in Outlook. I create a new
> one every year and eventually delete them.

I don't use Outlook, I have no idea how to picture that. But you were=20
speaking of MS Outlook Express, no? MS Outlook !=3D MS Outlook Express. Are=
=20
you speaking of changing the message store location via the Maintenance tab=
=20
in MSOE? Pegasus Mail has an option to change the mailbox location.

It looks like Thunderbird can do that as well. Earlier versions were=20
trickier to do that with, but 1.0.2 has a browseable message store location=
=20
in the configuration menus.

> 9. Compatibility with Microsoft Fax, unlike Edora.

I wonder if any non-MSFT mail client will work with MS FAX?

> 10. A spelling checker or one compatible with MS checkers,
> like the one in Outlook and Microsoft works or WordPerfect
> office. You can find cheap copies of the latter with the MS
> checker, which works in OE.

The spelling checker that comes with Pegasus Mail is probably inadequate,=
=20
but there are third party spelling checkers available.

I have less experience with the Mozilla Thunderbird spelling checker; but i=
t=20
has one, and it is probably possible to find a customized dictionary file=
=20
somewhere on the Internet, if you need to improve the stock dictionary.

> It would be nice if the client would run Microsoft Fax. It
> would be nice not have to use Windows Messaging for outgoing
> faxes. Although from experience I think there is some merit
> is keeping outgoing faxes in a separate system.

I don't think Pegasus Mail can do that, either; nor Mozilla Thunderbird.

> There some other things that email client developers think
> important but do not concern me.

> 1. HTML mail. I don't want it to avoid web bugs.

You have to go out of your way to make Pegasus Mail load remote images; tha=
t=20
is not possible by default, and trying to change the default results in a=
=20
series of pop up warnings to wade through.

The default setting in Mozilla Thunderbird is to not load remote images. I=
=20
don't recall if I changed the second setting, or that was by default; you=
=20
can allow remote images for addresses in your Address Book, or deny them.

> 2. Spam filters. Not on my list at the moment, because the
> spammers haven't found me yet. I know it's my ISP because I
> do have one account with SPAM, and it averages 5 a day,
> compared with zero to less than one per day in my other
> accounts. Though I admit they may some day. Also I might
> prefer a separate spam filter.

Pegasus Mail comes with a pretty good set of filter rules. And also a pre-
loaded Content Checker file which uses regular expressions to test, and=20
score phrases. Sort of a do-it-yourself text scoring system.

I don't know of any prefabricated filter rules for Mozilla Thunderbird, but=
=20
there may be some out there.

> 3. Newsgroups. I like Xnews. Also, I see a reason for
> separate email and news programs. Backing up email concerns
> me, while I couldn't care less about backing my newsgroups.
> I would prefer not to waste space on email backup CD ROMs
> with news group headers and articles.

Pegasus Mail does not do news.
Mozilla Thunderbird does do news.
> Is there a email client that I have missed?=1A

Pegasus Mail. Free, unless you want to get the printed manuals; you can pay=
=20
for those.

http://www.pmail.com/overviews/ovw_winpmail.htm

If you liked Netscape 4 so much, you might want to give Mozilla Thunderbird=
=20
a try.

http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

--=20
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Re: Need help looking for email client

NormanM wrote in
news:MPG.1cafdfc58ed0b08c9897e0@news.sf.sbcglobal.net:

> In article <1111831742.710341.144470@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> says...
>
>
>
>> My number one requirement is changing the subject line of
>> incoming messages. I get a lot of messages with subjects
>> like þFax message receivedþ from RingCentral that I wish I
>> could make meaningful when I store them. This may force me
>> to move to Outlook Gross. unless I can find something equiv-
>> alent.
>
> I wasn't aware that MS Outlook Express would let you change the
> Subject: line when you stored messages. I just tried it. I can't.

My mistake. I thought everyone would understand that I meant regular
Outlook by "Outlook Gross," as opposed to Outlook Express. In retrospect
I think "Outlook Gross" is an ambiguous term.

>> 2. Compatibility with black background Windows color
>> schemes. Several programs I have tried have hardcoded black
>> fonts, which produce black text on a black background. A
>> lot of developers pay little heed to compatibility with the
>> Windows color scheme system.

I downloaded Pegasus and discovered that it has this very problem. A
significant number of the text labels on the forms are hardcoded black
and you can't read them on a black background. These include the bottom
of the page tabs, the text labels in the tool bar, the column headings
on all the lists, such as the inbox message listing, the from subject
little line at the bottom of the message listing. I looked everywhere
as was able to customize a number of fonts and colors to my liking, but
these seemed to be fixed both in color, black, and size, somewhere that
I could not find. to change.

This violates Windows standards. The color should come from the users
windows color scheme, not be hard coded. The result is that Pegasus
appears incompatible with a black background color scheme and useless to
me


Outlook Express does follow this standard, with one exception that I
know of. The boxes that turn rules off and on are hard coded black.


I also observed another problem with Pegasus. I use Windows font
magnification, 200 %, to make the minimum Windows dialog box font
readable. for me. The dialog boxes in Pegasus are programed to bypass
the magnification process and are very small on my monitor. Most of the
other fonts I found a place to change them to size them as I wanted.
But not the dialog box labels.

Re: Need help looking for email client

In looking at Pegasus, I couldn't find a function.

In Outlook Express, you can say, menu, edit, move to folder and select a
folder to move a message to.

I didn't see a move function in the menus. Is it hidden somewhere? Is
there a short cut key?

Re: Need help looking for email client

In article , Foo says...

> In looking at Pegasus, I couldn't find a function.

> In Outlook Express, you can say, menu, edit, move to folder and select a
> folder to move a message to.

Ah, yes. You must select the message in the message list, first.

> I didn't see a move function in the menus.

Not in the menus, that I can see.

> Is it hidden somewhere?

Nope. It seems to be out in the open, from what I can see; button on the
toolbar. When you see it depends upon whether you use the preview pane, or
list view. Look for three adjacent buttons: Copy, Move, Delete.

They are immediately visible in the preview pane, but you have to open a
folder in the list view to see them on the folder toolbar.

> Is there a short cut key?

Not that I cans see.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Re: Need help looking for email client

In article , Foo says...

> NormanM wrote in
> news:MPG.1cafdfc58ed0b08c9897e0@news.sf.sbcglobal.net:

> > In article <1111831742.710341.144470@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > says...

> > I wasn't aware that MS Outlook Express would let you change the
> > Subject: line when you stored messages. I just tried it. I can't.

> My mistake. I thought everyone would understand that I meant regular
> Outlook by "Outlook Gross," as opposed to Outlook Express. In retrospect
> I think "Outlook Gross" is an ambiguous term.

Non-standard jargon needs an obvious connection. I sometimes use
"DestructiveX" to refer to "ActiveX", and "Product Aggravation" to refer to
"Product Activation". I have seen "Outhouse Exploder", which seems to be a
cross of Outlook Express and Internet Explorer; or "Lookout" for "Outlook".

> >> 2. Compatibility with black background Windows color
> >> schemes. Several programs I have tried have hardcoded black
> >> fonts, which produce black text on a black background. A
> >> lot of developers pay little heed to compatibility with the
> >> Windows color scheme system.

> I downloaded Pegasus and discovered that it has this very problem. A
> significant number of the text labels on the forms are hardcoded black
> and you can't read them on a black background. These include the bottom
> of the page tabs, the text labels in the tool bar, the column headings
> on all the lists, such as the inbox message listing, the from subject
> little line at the bottom of the message listing. I looked everywhere
> as was able to customize a number of fonts and colors to my liking, but
> these seemed to be fixed both in color, black, and size, somewhere that
> I could not find. to change.

> This violates Windows standards. The color should come from the users
> windows color scheme, not be hard coded. The result is that Pegasus
> appears incompatible with a black background color scheme and useless to
> me

> Outlook Express does follow this standard, with one exception that I
> know of. The boxes that turn rules off and on are hard coded black.

I don't have Windows XP to play with, just Windows ME. Using the Desktop
Properties, I can manipulate the menu text label colors. Indeed, I got to
thrashing about, and now I will have to spend a goodly amount of time trying
to restore my Desktop to the scheme I had in place before I started
thrashing about. I even had a bright yellow font for text menus; but now
have a black background and Italic purple text to clean up. Arrrgggghhhh.
They did, indeed, change things in Pegasus Mail to match.

> I also observed another problem with Pegasus. I use Windows font
> magnification, 200 %, to make the minimum Windows dialog box font
> readable. for me. The dialog boxes in Pegasus are programed to bypass
> the magnification process and are very small on my monitor. Most of the
> other fonts I found a place to change them to size them as I wanted.
> But not the dialog box labels.

I never got that far in playing. But if I can manipulate the colors, and
italicize the text, I expect I can change the size. I did this by right
clicking on my Desktop and playing with the Properties. I am not sure, in
detail, what you are seeing, or not seeing.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint