I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm

I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
guess there's no way to prevent it.

As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
Google to keep all that data about me.

What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
engine?

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a try, you
probably won't see any difference on a basic search. Alta Vista gives
a language and search area preference right on the search page .




* Anonymous Secure Offshore SHH-2 Surfing Tunnels
* Anonymous mail & news through SHH-2 Tunnels
* www.privacyoffshore.net (no logs Internet)
* www.privacyoffshore.info (no logs Internet)

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"WM" blackmail.demand@google.eu wrote in message
news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> Google to keep all that data about me.
>
> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> engine?

What IP address - these are normally negotiated on a per session basis.

Guess what Google don't even want to give this to Uncle Sam!

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband "(admins) privacyoffshore" wrote:
> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a try, you
> probably won't see any difference on a basic search. Alta Vista gives
> a language and search area preference right on the search page .

Err, what?
You really believe that neither of them logs ID?

The only way to do completely anonymous searching would be to use an
internet connection you can't be tied to in any way.

Basically, if you pay for it, you're almost certainly leaving some
trace.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Are fixed on broadband/not dynamic

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

WM wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> Google to keep all that data about me.
>
> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> engine?

MSN?

Let's face it, you are wanting a 'free' service, you have to expect to
give something back. Failing that bookmark your favourite URLs and never
use a search engine. Might be limiting, but you go through a proxy and
you'll be fine.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"WM" wrote in message
news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> Google to keep all that data about me.
>
> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> engine?

Some search engines:-
http://uk.altavista.com/
http://www.hotbot.co.uk/
http://www.lycos.co.uk/
http://uk.yahoo.com/
http://uk.ask.com/
http://www.mirago.co.uk/
http://www.ukplus.co.uk/
http://www.webcrawler.com/

These are general search engines, there are specialist search engines as
well.
Regards Mike.

--
"Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and
ability" (David Brent).

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

WM wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> Google to keep all that data about me.
>
> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> engine?

They _all_ keep records, Google, so far, are the only company refusing to
pass the records to the US government.
--
Adrian A

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:39:54 +0000 (UTC), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

>
>"WM" blackmail.demand@google.eu wrote in message
>news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>>
>> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
>> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
>> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>>
>> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
>> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
>> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
>> Google to keep all that data about me.
>>
>> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
>> engine?
>
>What IP address - these are normally negotiated on a per session basis.
>

Define "normally".

MANY ISPs give fixed IP addresses as standard with broadband accounts.

And even where they are theoretically dynamic, people who leave their
router on all the time will usually keep the same IP address, even
through reboots, for several months at a time.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:53:04 GMT, WM
wrote:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
>I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
>that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
>guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
>As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
>Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
>sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
>Google to keep all that data about me.
>

Do you really think they will do so?

>What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
>engine?

Quite a few, but I expect they all record very similar details to
Google, and being smaller will have fewer records overall for yours to
be a needle in a haystack.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Give instruction to a wise man and he will be yet wiser.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"(admins) privacyoffshore"
wrote in message
news:1137790975.866029.137290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a
> try, you probably won't see any difference on a basic
> search. Alta Vista gives a language and search area
> preference right on the search page .

I've been using Yahoo recently, but one thing I can't find on it that was
useful with Google is the facility to search again within results. Anyone
know if Yahoo supports this and if so how to do it..?

Ivor

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

WM wrote:

> I guess there's no way to prevent it.

Don't use google. Problem solved.

--
(AIM:troffasky) (gebssnfxl@ubgznvy.pbz)
23:30:30 up 5 days, 3:45, 2 users, load average: 0.42, 0.45, 0.37
This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"Alex Heney" wrote in message
>
> And even where they are theoretically dynamic, people who leave their
> router on all the time will usually keep the same IP address, even
> through reboots, for several months at a time.
> --
> Alex Heney, Global Villager

So US gov. has a list of what it was and where is was...

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:15:19 +0000 (UTC), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

>
>"Alex Heney" wrote in message
>>
>> And even where they are theoretically dynamic, people who leave their
>> router on all the time will usually keep the same IP address, even
>> through reboots, for several months at a time.
>> --
>> Alex Heney, Global Villager
>
>So US gov. has a list of what it was and where is was...
>

Only if you have used other (US based) search engines than Google.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
If nobody measures up, check your yardstick.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"WM" wrote in message
news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> Google to keep all that data about me.
>
> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> engine?

Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.

Just to prove it, go there, then from there, go to www.myipaddress.com and
see the results - it wont be your address it sees!

Sparks...

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Alex Heney wrote:

> MANY ISPs give fixed IP addresses as standard with broadband accounts.

I did two searches on ADSLguide. Everything the same except for IP:
Dynamic IP: 21 ISPs Static IP: 23 ISPs

Some offer static as a free option, some charge a one-off fee, some
charge a monthly extra, and others simply don't offer static anyway

How 'sticky' a dynamic IP address is, is another matter, depending
on the ISP.

> And even where they are theoretically dynamic, people who leave their
> router on all the time will usually keep the same IP address,

But as we already know, plenty of users have USB modems as supplied
by their ISP and therefore have a high likelihood of switching off
when the PC is off, or if not in use, the USB might 'go to sleep'

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"(admins) privacyoffshore" wrote in message
news:1137790975.866029.137290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com.. .
> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a try, you
> probably won't see any difference on a basic search. Alta Vista gives
> a language and search area preference right on the search page .
>
>
>
>
> * Anonymous Secure Offshore SHH-2 Surfing Tunnels
> * Anonymous mail & news through SHH-2 Tunnels
> * www.privacyoffshore.net (no logs Internet)
> * www.privacyoffshore.info (no logs Internet)
###############################
Alta Vista, yes, Yahoo, no
According to some articles, yahoo gives what the gov wants.
#################################

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"WM" wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>
> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> Google to keep all that data about me.
>
> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> engine?

Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

>
> What IP address - these are normally negotiated on a per session basis.
>
> Guess what Google don't even want to give this to Uncle Sam!
>
#################################
Dialup IPs are per session, not DSL or Cable. Besides, they have logs too.
donnie.

Google stock was Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

As a side note, google stock dropped 36 points today. My guess is that even
though most investors support the gov, they know enough to get rid of that
stock because chances are that google will win the battle but lose the war.
donnie.
###################################

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
>
> Just to prove it, go there, then from there, go to www.myipaddress.com and
> see the results - it wont be your address it sees!
>
> Sparks...
>
##############################
It looks good as long as proxify isn't owned by the gov. The CIA went by
the rule of thumb during Operation Mockingbird, that One journalist is worth
20 agents. That could be updated to: One proxy is worth 20 agents.
donnie.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Donnie wrote:
> #################################

Please don't put lines like the above into your article(s). They are
unnecessary, and they distract the reader from your information.

[snip]

> donnie.

There are norms for a Usenet signature. Please read about them,
since you apparently do not know what the norms are.

One place you can read about Usenet signatures is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In article <43d1855a$0$1458$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
Peter M wrote:

> Alex Heney wrote:
>
> > And even where they are theoretically dynamic, people who leave their
> > router on all the time will usually keep the same IP address,
>
> But as we already know, plenty of users have USB modems as supplied
> by their ISP and therefore have a high likelihood of switching off
> when the PC is off, or if not in use, the USB might 'go to sleep'

Even so, the DHCP server normally remembers the IP it gave to your MAC
address, and tries to give out the same address when you request an IP
again after starting up. It generally won't be assigned to another
customer unless the server uses up its pool, which is rare.

Most cable modem users keep the same address for months or years at a
time, even if they turn off the computer every night. You might get a
new IP if you turn off your computer while you go away on vacation, but
it's not uncommon to get the same one even then.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"Ant" writes:

>Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/

Which then will be able to track the OP.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"Sparks" writes:

>Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.

Right. Then, proxify.com can track you.

best regards
Patrick

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Patrick Schaaf wrote:

> "Sparks" writes:
>
>>Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
>
> Right. Then, proxify.com can track you.

Know what the most interesting part is? Not only will they be able to
track your Google search, but everything you look at afterwords. When you
stick your URL in one of these "anonymous" web proxies they follow you
around until you specifically break out of them. If they're run by people
who might want to log activity like TLA's or marketing firms, they're far
more dangerous than Google.

People don't *think* about this stuff. They see someone has plastered
"ANONYMOUS!" all over the top of a page and away they go. :( If you want
to hide your IP and do it with something that's at least marginally
secure, use Tor.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Patrick Schaaf wrote:
> "Ant" writes:
> >Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/
> Which then will be able to track the OP.

So Tor and AN.ON can help. And if there is one single node in the
network there you can trust, then they _cannot_ track you.

Yours,
VB.
--
Netzwerkgrundlagen anhand Windows lernen zu wollen ist doch wie seine
ersten sexuellen Erfahrungen mit einer Prostituierten zu sammlen: Die
Leidenschaft fehlt, das wirklich Wichtige lernt man dabei nicht, und die
Chance sich einen Schädling einzufangen ist hoch. (Lukas Graf in d.c.s.m)

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

What about Onion routing - works for me - but it is slow at times.

http://tor.eff.org/

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Sparks wrote:

> "WM" wrote in message
> news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>>
>>I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
>>that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
>>guess there's no way to prevent it.
>
> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
>
> Just to prove it, go there, then from there, go to www.myipaddress.com and
> see the results - it wont be your address it sees!

Also, Google Cookie Anonymizer:

(http://www.imilly.com/google-cookie.htm)

Ron :)

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"Patrick Schaaf" wrote:

> "Ant" writes:
>>Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/
>
> Which then will be able to track the OP.

http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm
says: "no search-term records", "access log deleted after 7 days".

See also here for some details:
http://www.scroogle.org/gscrape.html

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"(admins) privacyoffshore" wrote in message
news:1137790975.866029.137290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com.. .
> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a try, you
> probably won't see any difference on a basic search. Alta Vista gives
> a language and search area preference right on the search page .
>
>
>
>
> * Anonymous Secure Offshore SHH-2 Surfing Tunnels
> * Anonymous mail & news through SHH-2 Tunnels
> * www.privacyoffshore.net (no logs Internet)
> * www.privacyoffshore.info (no logs Internet)
>

These boys are already complying with the very BushAdmin request that
Google is fighting.
Are you suggesting we help further?

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband Alex Heney wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:39:54 +0000 (UTC), "R. Mark Clayton"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"WM" blackmail.demand@google.eu wrote in message
> >news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
> >>
> >> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent news
> >> that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP number. I
> >> guess there's no way to prevent it.
> >>
> >> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
> >> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences, shop
> >> sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I want
> >> Google to keep all that data about me.
> >>
> >> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
> >> engine?
> >
> >What IP address - these are normally negotiated on a per session basis.
> >
>
> Define "normally".
>
> MANY ISPs give fixed IP addresses as standard with broadband accounts.
>
A much better approach is to browse from a server system that hundreds
of people use, then the IP address is of no use at all, well some use
but not much.

--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Ant wrote:

> "Patrick Schaaf" wrote:
>
>> "Ant" writes:
>>>Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/
>>
>> Which then will be able to track the OP.
>
> http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm says: "no search-term
> records", "access log deleted after 7 days".

I have this bridge you may be interested in...

By the way, did I tell you my mother was a virgin?

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"Borked Pseudo Mailed" wrote:

> I have this bridge you may be interested in...

Keep it. Your need is greater than mine.

> By the way, did I tell you my mother was a virgin?

And your father smelled of elderberries.

By the way, your borked remailer borked your References header.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Altavista was bought out I think by Google or google-owned company.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
news:43d159e4$0$2689$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> In uk.telecom.broadband "(admins) privacyoffshore"
> wrote:
>> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a try, you
>> probably won't see any difference on a basic search. Alta Vista gives
>> a language and search area preference right on the search page .
>
> Err, what?
> You really believe that neither of them logs ID?
>
> The only way to do completely anonymous searching would be to use an
> internet connection you can't be tied to in any way.
>
> Basically, if you pay for it, you're almost certainly leaving some
> trace.

Or you could use an anonymous proxy!?

Go to http://fosi.ural.net - there's an anonymous proxy browser utility
there.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On 22 Jan 2006, Yozzi wrote:

> "Ian Stirling" wrote in message
> news:43d159e4$0$2689$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> In uk.telecom.broadband "(admins) privacyoffshore"
>> wrote:
>>> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a try,
>>> you probably won't see any difference on a basic search. Alta
>>> Vista gives a language and search area preference right on the
>>> search page .
>>
>> Err, what?
>> You really believe that neither of them logs ID?
>>
>> The only way to do completely anonymous searching would be to
>> use an internet connection you can't be tied to in any way.
>>
>> Basically, if you pay for it, you're almost certainly leaving
>> some trace.
>
> Or you could use an anonymous proxy!?
>
> Go to http://fosi.ural.net - there's an anonymous proxy browser
> utility there.
>


Tried it a few times before but it just doesn't seem to work. It
can't find any anon proxies.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On 20 Jan 2006, Ivor Jones wrote:

> "(admins) privacyoffshore"
> wrote in message
> news:1137790975.866029.137290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
>> Yahoo and Alta Vista are a great alternative, give them a
>> try, you probably won't see any difference on a basic
>> search. Alta Vista gives a language and search area
>> preference right on the search page .
>
> I've been using Yahoo recently, but one thing I can't find on it
> that was useful with Google is the facility to search again
> within results. Anyone know if Yahoo supports this and if so how
> to do it..?

ISTR that Yahoo search was powered by Google.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On 21 Jan 2006, Barry Margolin wrote:

>
>> Alex Heney wrote:
>>
>> > And even where they are theoretically dynamic, people who
>> > leave their router on all the time will usually keep the same
>> > IP address,
>>
>> But as we already know, plenty of users have USB modems as
>> supplied by their ISP and therefore have a high likelihood of
>> switching off when the PC is off, or if not in use, the USB
>> might 'go to sleep'
>
> Even so, the DHCP server normally remembers the IP it gave to
> your MAC address, and tries to give out the same address when
> you request an IP again after starting up. It generally won't
> be assigned to another customer unless the server uses up its
> pool, which is rare.
>
> Most cable modem users keep the same address for months or years
> at a time, even if they turn off the computer every night. You
> might get a new IP if you turn off your computer while you go
> away on vacation, but it's not uncommon to get the same one even
> then.
>

I can say that what you describe for cable users agrees with my
own experience.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On 21 Jan 2006, Sparks wrote:

> "WM" wrote in message
> news:9751D472FFFEE6AD265@204.153.244.170...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4631924.stm
>>
>> I zap my Google browser cookies but now I learn from the recent
>> news that Google tracks every inquiry I made including my IP
>> number. I guess there's no way to prevent it.
>>
>> As I'm on cable and my IP address hasn't changed in months then
>> Google can reliably track my interests, habits, preferences,
>> shop sites, etc etc. I have nothing to hide but I'm not sure I
>> want Google to keep all that data about me.
>>
>> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
>> engine?
>
> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you -
> easy.

Yes, this works nicely if a bit slowly.


>
> Just to prove it, go there, then from there, go to
> www.myipaddress.com and see the results - it wont be your
> address it sees!
>

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On 21 Jan 2006, Patrick Schaaf wrote:

>
>>Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you -
>>easy.
>
> Right. Then, proxify.com can track you.
>

ANd your Google cookie will need massaging too.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

On 21 Jan 2006, Ant wrote:

>
>> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
>> engine?
>
> Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/
>
>
>


Nice. I found this syntax to use as a shortcut to call Scroogle:
http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/nbbw.cgi?q=%s

BTW does anyone know what tweaks are needed to get Google (or
Scroogle) to return more than a two line extract of the found item?

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Yozzi wrote:

>> The only way to do completely anonymous searching would be to use an
>> internet connection you can't be tied to in any way.
>>
>> Basically, if you pay for it, you're almost certainly leaving some
>> trace.
>
> Or you could use an anonymous proxy!?

This is really poor advice.

Anonymous proxies aren't anonymous. They're usually misconfigured machines
whose owners are likely to log everything you do for a time before they
shut them down on you.

> Go to http://fosi.ural.net - there's an anonymous proxy browser utility
> there.

No, go to http://tor.eff.org and use that.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Zak wrote:

>>> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search engine?
>>
>> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
>
> Yes, this works nicely if a bit slowly.
>

Execpt that it's NOT anonymous. Proxify.com could be the NSA for all you
know, which would make it LESS secure than just going to Google and doing
the search.

No single point of contact can make you anonymous. Period. It's simply not
possible no matter what the snake oil peddlers tell you.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband George Orwell wrote:
> Zak wrote:
>
> >>> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search engine?
> >>
> >> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
> >
> > Yes, this works nicely if a bit slowly.
> >
>
> Execpt that it's NOT anonymous. Proxify.com could be the NSA for all you
> know, which would make it LESS secure than just going to Google and doing
> the search.
>
> No single point of contact can make you anonymous. Period. It's simply not
> possible no matter what the snake oil peddlers tell you.
>
Not anonymous no, but I still think that using a server which is used
by lots of other people as well is a fairly good ploy. If there are
(say) 50 developers using a Sun system to do their web browsing who is
going to know who browsed what? I suppose it might be possible to
trace the X connections to the Sun system but there wouldn't be any
history of what had been browsed still.

--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

usenet wrote:

>> >> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
>> >
>> > Yes, this works nicely if a bit slowly.
>> >
>> >
>> Execpt that it's NOT anonymous. Proxify.com could be the NSA for all you
>> know, which would make it LESS secure than just going to Google and
>> doing the search.
>>
>> No single point of contact can make you anonymous. Period. It's simply
>> not possible no matter what the snake oil peddlers tell you.
>>
> Not anonymous no, but I still think that using a server which is used by
> lots of other people as well is a fairly good ploy. If there are (say) 50

You miss the point entirely.... there IS no "ploy" that's going to work.
You're relying on a fallacy called security through obscurity. Such things
can not, and never should be even considered as an option. It's very
simple math. You're either protected from this sort of snooping, or you
are not. Period.

> developers using a Sun system to do their web browsing who is going to
> know who browsed what?

Anybody with access to the Sun system, or anyone who can gain access to
it. That would include the owners of the system, anyone who worked with
that system in any sort of administrative capacity, anyone who could crack
that system's security, and anyone who can exert enough legal or illegal
pressure on any of the above to get them to transfer THEIR access.

IOW, a whole boat load of people could, and the most likely ones would be
the very same people you're trying to hide from. Your "anonymous" Sun
proxy is a minor speed bump to them, at the very best.

> I suppose it might be possible to trace the X
> connections to the Sun system but there wouldn't be any history of what
> had been browsed still.

And you know this.... how? Unless you own that machine you don't, and if
you DO own it you're browsing from your own machine and defeating the
whole idea of being "anonymous". :)

There's very few choices out there if you want to have any sort of
realistic anonymity. They're all mathematically proved secure though, and
assumed by most to be practically unbreakable. I personally wouldn't look
any further than Tor and remailers. Between them they can handle almost
any sort of traffic you can imagine, and do so fairly reliably for a good
number of people which means your "blending in" criteria is met. :)

Anonymous proxies are NOT anonymous or secure. In a lot of cases you're
less secure using them than you are surfing naked. You have no way of
knowing if the "proxy" you're using is run by someone who specifically set
it up for the purposes of snooping, and I'd wager my left nut that such
proxies exist. Both paid, and "open". It's silly to even think they don't.
And those would be the ones that would look the most tempting because
their owners would let them run, as opposed to the moderately safe
open proxies that are discovered and immediately shut down.

If you want to use anonymous proxies or "subscription services" by all
means feel free. You can even delude yourself all you want into
believing you're in any way safe. But PLEASE don't mislead other people
to believing that ANY single point of contact or real time, connection
based system can give them any real security at all. they may be
sufficient to hide you from lesser net kooks, but there's no way in HELL
they'll stand up to a dedicated attacker, or any sort of government snoop.
Just ain't gonna happen brother... :(

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband Borked Pseudo Mailed wrote:
> usenet wrote:
>
> >> >> Just go here - http://proxify.com/ then Google cant track you - easy.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, this works nicely if a bit slowly.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Execpt that it's NOT anonymous. Proxify.com could be the NSA for all you
> >> know, which would make it LESS secure than just going to Google and
> >> doing the search.
> >>
> >> No single point of contact can make you anonymous. Period. It's simply
> >> not possible no matter what the snake oil peddlers tell you.
> >>
> > Not anonymous no, but I still think that using a server which is used by
> > lots of other people as well is a fairly good ploy. If there are (say) 50
>
> You miss the point entirely.... there IS no "ploy" that's going to work.
> You're relying on a fallacy called security through obscurity. Such things
> can not, and never should be even considered as an option. It's very
> simple math. You're either protected from this sort of snooping, or you
> are not. Period.
>
Pardon! What I was saying was that anyone running a browser on said
server will appear to be browsing from the same IP address. Thus
Google's (or whoever's) records will not be able to say who was
browsing, only that someone from that IP address was browsing.


> > developers using a Sun system to do their web browsing who is going to
> > know who browsed what?
>
> Anybody with access to the Sun system, or anyone who can gain access to
> it. That would include the owners of the system, anyone who worked with
> that system in any sort of administrative capacity, anyone who could crack
> that system's security, and anyone who can exert enough legal or illegal
> pressure on any of the above to get them to transfer THEIR access.
>
How will they know? You are assuming that the information is there to
be found, I'm not sure that it is and/or that you can't make it
unavailable. Say I log in as root (not su to root) and browse for a
while and then log off. Who has been browsing? There's no personal
record at all.


> IOW, a whole boat load of people could, and the most likely ones would be
> the very same people you're trying to hide from. Your "anonymous" Sun
> proxy is a minor speed bump to them, at the very best.
>
> > I suppose it might be possible to trace the X
> > connections to the Sun system but there wouldn't be any history of what
> > had been browsed still.
>
> And you know this.... how? Unless you own that machine you don't, and if
> you DO own it you're browsing from your own machine and defeating the
> whole idea of being "anonymous". :)
>
It's a corporate machine used by lots of people. Yes, it's one of
those people browsing but there's no record of who.

--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

usenet wrote:

>> You miss the point entirely.... there IS no "ploy" that's going to work.
>> You're relying on a fallacy called security through obscurity. Such
>> things can not, and never should be even considered as an option. It's
>> very simple math. You're either protected from this sort of snooping, or
>> you are not. Period.
>>
> Pardon! What I was saying was that anyone running a browser on said
> server will appear to be browsing from the same IP address. Thus Google's
> (or whoever's) records will not be able to say who was browsing, only that
> someone from that IP address was browsing.

That's completely irrelevant. And FWIW, partially incorrect. You have no
way of knowing for sure what information is forwarded to Google through
an "anonymous proxy".

I know first hand of cases where these proxies were made far from
anonymous by their admins for a time so that "targets" would have a good
eye full of exactly who was "attacking" them, before shutting the proxy
down to outside use.

Again, you're not in any way technically anonymous, and any perception of
anonymity is a crap shoot. Because of this, if you have any desire to
seriously mask you identity at all you HAVE to choose some other method.

>> > developers using a Sun system to do their web browsing who is going to
>> > know who browsed what?
>>
>> Anybody with access to the Sun system, or anyone who can gain access to
>> it. That would include the owners of the system, anyone who worked with
>> that system in any sort of administrative capacity, anyone who could
>> crack that system's security, and anyone who can exert enough legal or
>> illegal pressure on any of the above to get them to transfer THEIR
>> access.
>>
> How will they know? You are assuming that the information is there to be
> found, I'm not sure that it is and/or that you can't make it unavailable.

/me Shakes head....

The question is how would they NOT know?

> Say I log in as root (not su to root) and browse for a while and then log
> off. Who has been browsing? There's no personal record at all.

I take it you're not familiar with the *nix world?

In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you log in
you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a name or
address. That information *IS* logged in conjunction with your alleged
root login. And at the machine your logging in from is a nice record of
who was logged in at the same time of the remote "root" login. I see these
sorts of things in my logs every single day as a matter of fact. Usually
failed logins from script kiddies trying to crack my root through a rate
limited SSH daemon that doesn't even allow root , and logins from
various machines both locally and remotely. Each end every one logged with
the origin IP, time, etc...

And even if a given system is configured not to log, that can be changed
by any nefarious admin, attacker, or court order.

>> IOW, a whole boat load of people could, and the most likely ones would
>> be the very same people you're trying to hide from. Your "anonymous" Sun
>> proxy is a minor speed bump to them, at the very best.
>>
>> > I suppose it might be possible to trace the X connections to the Sun
>> > system but there wouldn't be any history of what had been browsed
>> > still.
>>
>> And you know this.... how? Unless you own that machine you don't, and if
>> you DO own it you're browsing from your own machine and defeating the
>> whole idea of being "anonymous". :)
>>
> It's a corporate machine used by lots of people. Yes, it's one of those
> people browsing but there's no record of who.

You are quite mistaken. Not only will there likely be an easy trail to
follow by default, it's possible to make the trail even more pronounced.
Hell, most unauthorized attempts or failed logins to my SSH servers
trigger boiler plate emails sent to the offender's abuse/admin addresses
with an incredible amount of information about the offender.

Took a couple months of tweaking, but I hardly ever even SEE them any more
unless I go looking it's so automatic. And the same thing could be done
for web browsing to certain "bad sites" from within my network if I so
desired, regardless of where you're logging in from or what account
you're using. Unless of course you truly ARE anonymous when you get here.

IOW, Tor. :)

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband George Orwell wrote:
> usenet wrote:
>
> >> You miss the point entirely.... there IS no "ploy" that's going to work.
> >> You're relying on a fallacy called security through obscurity. Such
> >> things can not, and never should be even considered as an option. It's
> >> very simple math. You're either protected from this sort of snooping, or
> >> you are not. Period.
> >>
> > Pardon! What I was saying was that anyone running a browser on said
> > server will appear to be browsing from the same IP address. Thus Google's
> > (or whoever's) records will not be able to say who was browsing, only that
> > someone from that IP address was browsing.
>
> That's completely irrelevant. And FWIW, partially incorrect. You have no
> way of knowing for sure what information is forwarded to Google through
> an "anonymous proxy".
>
I'm not talking about proxies! I'm talking about a corporate server
machine available to tens or hundreds of employees who don't
necessarily log on as themselves to use the machine.

Thus the rest of your rant is irrelevant.

>
> I take it you're not familiar with the *nix world?
>
I've only been working with Unix systems since around 1980.

> In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you log in
> you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a name or

Cobblers, what if I log in on the console?

--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

usenet wrote:

>> > Pardon! What I was saying was that anyone running a browser on said
>> > server will appear to be browsing from the same IP address. Thus
>> > Google's (or whoever's) records will not be able to say who was
>> > browsing, only that someone from that IP address was browsing.
>>
>> That's completely irrelevant. And FWIW, partially incorrect. You have no
>> way of knowing for sure what information is forwarded to Google through
>> an "anonymous proxy".
>>
> I'm not talking about proxies! I'm talking about a corporate server
> machine available to tens or hundreds of employees who don't necessarily
> log on as themselves to use the machine.
>
> Thus the rest of your rant is irrelevant.

You most certainly are talking about proxies, even if you don't recognize
them as such. And the rest applied to **any** connection no matter how
badly you want to discard it by calling it names.

You're straw grabbing, and it's not a pretty sight. If you're logging in
at some console you're giving away two out of three pieces of the "who are
you" puzzle by default... the "when" and "where". And you're making the
"who" part trivial to figure out. Even being one of a hundred
possibilities is light years from being any one of ALL the possibilities.

Your "console" scenario is in fact less anonymous than a known good public
proxy in a lot of ways. Not to mention the fact that if they exist at all
in the real world they're few, far between, and either grossly mismanaged
resources or corporate honeypots used to trap nefarious employees who are
stupid enough to think that "console" is going to make them in any way,
shape, or form anonymous.

>> I take it you're not familiar with the *nix world?
>>
> I've only been working with Unix systems since around 1980.

Obviously not, at least not in any sort of administrative capacity. Or
maybe you just have a gross misunderstanding of basic security concepts.
In any case you knowledge base is sorely lacking.

>> In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you log in
>> you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a name or
>
> Cobblers, what if I log in on the console?

Logged. The concept of "here" is a location, and an easier one to discover
than a map that points to "over there". :) Being physically AT a terminal
with a public facing exposure removes huge chunks of what real anonymity
depends on.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband George Orwell wrote:
> >> I take it you're not familiar with the *nix world?
> >>
> > I've only been working with Unix systems since around 1980.
>
> Obviously not, at least not in any sort of administrative capacity. Or
> maybe you just have a gross misunderstanding of basic security concepts.
> In any case you knowledge base is sorely lacking.
>
Stop being so condescending, I haven't "pulled seniority" but I do
have long and extensive experience in the Unix world. While we're
about it - what are your experience and qualifications?


> >> In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you log in
> >> you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a name or
> >
In a "typical" Unix setup - maybe, but that certainly doesn't apply to
all and doesn't apply to ours at present.

> > Cobblers, what if I log in on the console?
>
> Logged. The concept of "here" is a location, and an easier one to discover
> than a map that points to "over there". :) Being physically AT a terminal
> with a public facing exposure removes huge chunks of what real anonymity
> depends on.
>
Yes, but the point I was making was that you *still* don't know who it
was that logged in, just that it was one of several (tens, hundreds
maybe) people who have access to that terminal/machine.

In addition our machines have *lots* of effectively non-personal
logins which are used a lot. What do you do if you find that 'fsbmgr'
has been browsing?

--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

To all involved.

Now, now, don't fall out about it!

Very few of you understand very much how the Internet works. You are
just users without knowing what goes on in the intricacies under the
bonnet.

The real problem lies in the fact that the so-called engineers and
technicians and other hangers-on, they who install and maintain the
system, know no more about how it works than you do.

Service providers severely neglect technical training of staff. It's
not an immediately profitable investment. It's short-terminism. The
result is system unreliability, which often descends to chaos, as can
be judged from service providers' so-called 'support' newsgroup
enquiries and frustrations.

The service reliabilty of the old telephone, local and trunk dialling
system was almost perfect. It catered in a few hours for national
storm and flood disasters. The old General Post Office had staff
training amongst its top priorities under a Postmaster General of rank
equal to a cabinet minister, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, next
to the prime minister.

But Maggie buggered that up for the sake of the City of London and the
profit motive.

You voted for it - and that's what you got! Try not to do it again.
----
Reg.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Reg Edwards wrote:
> The service reliabilty of the old telephone, local and trunk dialling
> system was almost perfect.

Yes. Captain Crunch showed, that this is very true ;-)

Yours,
VB.
--
Netzwerkgrundlagen anhand Windows lernen zu wollen ist doch wie seine
ersten sexuellen Erfahrungen mit einer Prostituierten zu sammlen: Die
Leidenschaft fehlt, das wirklich Wichtige lernt man dabei nicht, und die
Chance sich einen Schädling einzufangen ist hoch. (Lukas Graf in d.c.s.m)

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

usenet wrote:

> In uk.telecom.broadband George Orwell wrote:
>> >> I take it you're not familiar with the *nix world?
>> >>
>> > I've only been working with Unix systems since around 1980.
>>
>> Obviously not, at least not in any sort of administrative capacity. Or
>> maybe you just have a gross misunderstanding of basic security concepts.
>> In any case you knowledge base is sorely lacking.
>>
> Stop being so condescending, I haven't "pulled seniority" but I do have
> long and extensive experience in the Unix world. While we're about it -
> what are your experience and qualifications?

30+ years of hands on including building my own ISP, designing,
implementing, and administering networks in hospitals, local/regional
government offices, courthouses, police stations, private businesses and
private homes.

Decades of ironing out problems in many scenarios where security has
always been a top priority, like patient confidentiality, attorney-client
privilege, and how to keep the competition from finding out you're rolling
out a new product with a ridiculously simple modification any of them
could implement that will make you millions if you get it there before
them.

You know..... silly things like that.

>> >> In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you log
>> >> in you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a name
>> >> or
>> >
> In a "typical" Unix setup - maybe, but that certainly doesn't apply to all
> and doesn't apply to ours at present.

So you're saying you have terminals that allow "community" logins and do
absolutely no logging? And they're connected to the outside world?



You're either a liar, crazy, or you have the worst admins the universe has
ever conceived. I suspect the truth is your mythical terminals aren't
quite as "anonymous" as you are misled to believe they are though.

>
>> > Cobblers, what if I log in on the console?
>>
>> Logged. The concept of "here" is a location, and an easier one to
>> discover than a map that points to "over there". :) Being physically AT
>> a terminal with a public facing exposure removes huge chunks of what
>> real anonymity depends on.
>>
> Yes, but the point I was making was that you *still* don't know who it was
> that logged in, just that it was one of several (tens, hundreds maybe)
> people who have access to that terminal/machine.

You just don't get it. Even in the absolute best case of nobody possibly
knowing which of X number of people were doing a deed, which you do NOT
have, you're still one of definable set X as opposed to 1 of ALL. You are
in no way, shape, or form anonymous. Anonymous by definition can not
include that sort of restriction.

You're also trivial to ferret out in the real world, where Joe is going
to remember something about Frank using that "anonymous terminal" last
Wednesday when the cops say Jane got that harassing email. The real life
implications of your misunderstanding of the term anonymous are even more
detrimental to the concept than the math. That terminal is a fixed point,
easily compromised under any of the scenarios I've already tried to lay
out for you, and more.

>
> In addition our machines have *lots* of effectively non-personal logins
> which are used a lot. What do you do if you find that 'fsbmgr' has been
> browsing?

I would find out who fsbmgr is, who has access to that account, and who
actually used it last Wednesday at 4:30 PM when the logs show it was used
to send that email. It's not going to be very hard at all. Certainly not
problematic enough to thwart even a coworker with any real desire to find
out.

You're just.... wrong. I don't know how to explain it any other way. The
question was about being hidden or anonymous, from government snoops no
less, and your "solution" won't even keep the average local snoop at bay.
It *might* fool your grandmother if she's technically illiterate, but I'd
wager even a bright high schooler could figure it out if given admin
access. Or set up something to figure it out automatically. It's a trivial
problem.

Like I said, security through obscurity..... bad medicine. :(

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband TwistyCreek wrote:
>
> >> >> In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you log
> >> >> in you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a name
> >> >> or
> >> >
> > In a "typical" Unix setup - maybe, but that certainly doesn't apply to all
> > and doesn't apply to ours at present.
>
> So you're saying you have terminals that allow "community" logins and do
> absolutely no logging? And they're connected to the outside world?
>
We have terminals and other access all within a reasonably secure
environment. There's a very secure (so I am told) firewall between us
and the outside world but within the building access is still pretty
free and easy - the 'Unix' way really.

>

Ho, ho, ho. (well you said I should)


> >>
> > Yes, but the point I was making was that you *still* don't know who it was
> > that logged in, just that it was one of several (tens, hundreds maybe)
> > people who have access to that terminal/machine.
>
> You just don't get it. Even in the absolute best case of nobody possibly
> knowing which of X number of people were doing a deed, which you do NOT
> have, you're still one of definable set X as opposed to 1 of ALL. You are
> in no way, shape, or form anonymous. Anonymous by definition can not
> include that sort of restriction.
>
Oh dear, maybe we're at cross purposes. *ALL* I said originally was
that there was no way to tell which of quite a large number of people
had accessed the web from a particular machine. I obviously wasn't
suggesting it could be anyone in the world.


> I would find out who fsbmgr is, who has access to that account, and who
> actually used it last Wednesday at 4:30 PM when the logs show it was used
> to send that email. It's not going to be very hard at all. Certainly not
> problematic enough to thwart even a coworker with any real desire to find
> out.
>
Dozens of people know the fsbmgr password and they probably keep the
logins live for days.


> You're just.... wrong. I don't know how to explain it any other way. The
> question was about being hidden or anonymous, from government snoops no
> less, and your "solution" won't even keep the average local snoop at bay.
> It *might* fool your grandmother if she's technically illiterate, but I'd
> wager even a bright high schooler could figure it out if given admin
> access. Or set up something to figure it out automatically. It's a trivial
> problem.
>
It wasn't a *solution* it was just a comment that there's no easy way
to tell which of a (finite) numebr of people accessed the web in this
particular case.


--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

usenet wrote:

> In uk.telecom.broadband TwistyCreek wrote:
>>
>> >> >> In a typical *nix setup all logins are recorded by origin. If you
>> >> >> log in you're doing so from a specific machine. That machine has a
>> >> >> name or
>> >> >
>> > In a "typical" Unix setup - maybe, but that certainly doesn't apply to
>> > all and doesn't apply to ours at present.
>>
>> So you're saying you have terminals that allow "community" logins and do
>> absolutely no logging? And they're connected to the outside world?
>>
> We have terminals and other access all within a reasonably secure
> environment. There's a very secure (so I am told) firewall between us and
> the outside world but within the building access is still pretty free and
> easy - the 'Unix' way really.

You're waffling.... "reasonably", "pretty free"....

Either you have the sort of unlogged, wide open access by groups of
hundreds who share a community login that supports your assertions, or you
don't. It's that simple.

And even if you DO, you're still far from being anything at remotely
resembles anonymous or secure from the types of snoops we're discussing.
There's a definable trial directly back to you that other methods simply
do not provide. A trail the something like a "government" could exploit on
a whim.

>
>>
>
> Ho, ho, ho. (well you said I should)

No, you're mistaken about that too. I was amused BY you, not along
side you. :)

>> You just don't get it. Even in the absolute best case of nobody possibly
>> knowing which of X number of people were doing a deed, which you do NOT
>> have, you're still one of definable set X as opposed to 1 of ALL. You
>> are in no way, shape, or form anonymous. Anonymous by definition can not
>> include that sort of restriction.
>>
> Oh dear, maybe we're at cross purposes. *ALL* I said originally was that
> there was no way to tell which of quite a large number of people had

100 isn't a larger number. Neither is 1000 in context. Compared to the
mathematical problems of sifting through billions, those are rather
laughable numbers in fact.

> accessed the web from a particular machine. I obviously wasn't
> suggesting it could be anyone in the world.

But there ARE ways to tell, and I've tried to explain some of them to you.
There's is a tangible, discoverable connection between that web site and
your fingers. What you're describing is "obscurity". It's a myth, a widely
accepted security fallacy. If you're depending on it to CYA against
anything but the most trivial attacks you are a misguided or self
deluding fool setting themselves up for a severe disappointment.

>> I would find out who fsbmgr is, who has access to that account, and who
>> actually used it last Wednesday at 4:30 PM when the logs show it was
>> used to send that email. It's not going to be very hard at all.
>> Certainly not problematic enough to thwart even a coworker with any real
>> desire to find out.
>>
> Dozens of people know the fsbmgr password and they probably keep the
> logins live for days.

Fine. We line them all up and start beating them with rubber hoses. Or we
extend those logs by court order. Or we install cameras. Or we question
everyone until someone remembers they saw "Dave" at the terminal on such
and such a date at such and such a time. Or we run a "sting" on whoever
we're after by leading them to a site that does a little more than fill
their eyes with naked ladies. Or we traffic analyze and collate access
with time cards.

Any number of things can be used to "catch" an individual in this scenario.

>> You're just.... wrong. I don't know how to explain it any other way. The
>> question was about being hidden or anonymous, from government snoops no
>> less, and your "solution" won't even keep the average local snoop at
>> bay. It *might* fool your grandmother if she's technically illiterate,
>> but I'd wager even a bright high schooler could figure it out if given
>> admin access. Or set up something to figure it out automatically. It's a
>> trivial problem.
>>
> It wasn't a *solution* it was just a comment that there's no easy way to
> tell which of a (finite) numebr of people accessed the web in this
> particular case.

You're just.... wrong. If there is a weakness that's within practical
limits it WILL be exploited by a dedicated attacker. The simple fact of
the matter is your "suggestion" has a few gaping holes in it. This makes
it a useless suggestion any way you turn it around, and even YOU realize
this because you've attempted to defend it with what essentially amounts
to a lie about the "anonymity" of some alleged terminal in your alleged
place of work.

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

In uk.telecom.broadband Borked Pseudo Mailed wrote:
> usenet wrote:
>
> >> You're just.... wrong. I don't know how to explain it any other way. The
> >> question was about being hidden or anonymous, from government snoops no
> >> less, and your "solution" won't even keep the average local snoop at
> >> bay. It *might* fool your grandmother if she's technically illiterate,
> >> but I'd wager even a bright high schooler could figure it out if given
> >> admin access. Or set up something to figure it out automatically. It's a
> >> trivial problem.
> >>
> > It wasn't a *solution* it was just a comment that there's no easy way to
> > tell which of a (finite) numebr of people accessed the web in this
> > particular case.
>
> You're just.... wrong. If there is a weakness that's within practical
> limits it WILL be exploited by a dedicated attacker. The simple fact of
> the matter is your "suggestion" has a few gaping holes in it. This makes
> it a useless suggestion any way you turn it around, and even YOU realize
> this because you've attempted to defend it with what essentially amounts
> to a lie about the "anonymity" of some alleged terminal in your alleged
> place of work.
>
>
The original question was about Google's ability to show usage based
on IP address. In the case of the systems I'm talking about we're
behind a firewall that also uses NAT. Thus every user in the business
will appear (to Google) to have the same IP address.

Yes, given a large number of heavies, you might beat the information
out of someone but that would really be the only way to do it and
you'd have to bash up quite a few people.

Apart from that it would be *very* difficult to assign particular
usage to particular people as we have lots of non-personal logins
which are used extensively by lots of different people and we
regularly change both timezones and actual system times on machines to
simulate operation in other countries and at different times of the
day (especially over midnight for example).

We do not have a lot of auditing of system usage simply *because*
this is a development environment and there is no sensitive personal
information on it, we go to considerable lengths to ensure that there
isn't any. Any system which does have sensitive information (HR
records, customer information, etc.) is not within the development
environment.

Thus browsing from of this environment is unlikely to provide any
useful information to be passed on by Google. Given that there are
probably quite a large number of businesses working behind similar
firewalls it makes the task of finding things out from Google's
records even more 'needle in a haystack'.

OK, if something really 'nasty' was spotted in the Google logs then,
with a huge amount of effort, something might be traced and uncovered
but I should think the bird would have flown long before the 'heavies'
arrived.

I would also point out that I don't think I (or anyone else here) is
doing anything that would be of the slightest interest to the US
government or anyone else for that matter.


--
Chris Green

Re: I zap Google cookies but it tracks me by IP - what else?

Ahhhh IP addresses....Ya just gotta love em! Even when someone uses
secondary or work computers to create different accounts. It makes no
difference.



"Zak" wrote in message
news:Xns97542514EACBF64A18E@66.250.146.159...
> On 21 Jan 2006, Ant wrote:
>
>>
>>> What good alternatives are there to Google as a regular search
>>> engine?
>>
>> Try the Google scraper at http://www.scroogle.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Nice. I found this syntax to use as a shortcut to call Scroogle:
> http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/nbbw.cgi?q=%s
>
> BTW does anyone know what tweaks are needed to get Google (or
> Scroogle) to return more than a two line extract of the found item?