Off Topic - DNS Problem

I realize this is off topic. I'd be grateful for a pointer to the
correct NG if anyone knows. Of course, an answer would be gratefully
received too! ;-)

Here's the scenario:

Company has website and email hosted by "BadISP". For completely
unrelated reasons, company desires to bring email in house and
webhosting to another provider. They request BadISP's cooperation to
change domain registration.

BadISP replies in part "The request I received from your new IT person
was to change web/email hosting providers and DNS hosting. This is
separate from the $15+ per month fee we charge for dialup internet
service, which is setup for The web hosting and dns
transfer is a totally separate issue. Moving dns hosting could/will
result in email & website interruptions. There is an administrative
process associated with the request that must be handled as well as tech
time. We charge 10 hours time @ $75/hr to cover the entire transfer
process which takes 48-72 hours to fully propagate throughout the web."

Since BadISP is the admin and every other contact on the DNS listing, I
doubt that the Registrar will talk to the Company.

How could the transfer process possibly take 10 hours? Is there any way
As I understand it at this point, all that needs to be done is to amend
the registry for the domain so that DNS points to the correct place.
Anyone know of a way to force BadISP to sign off?

Thanks

JH

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

Your dns will be registered with a dns name provider. This provider
will be told that the domain master is BadISP. If you contact the dns
name provider directly, you can manage dns youself (make your firewall
the domain master) and need not involve BadISP at all. Your web and
email addresses are supplied by dns, so really all you need do is
cancel the monthly fee for their services.

They are right about it taking 10 hours for dns to propergate through
the internet, although you can do several things to reduce this time,
but thats a long story. Them charging for the full 10 hours I've never
heard of before and $750 for that service is way too expensive.

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

on 2/2/2006 6:06 PM rounner@yahoo.com said the following:
> Your dns will be registered with a dns name provider. This provider
> will be told that the domain master is BadISP. If you contact the dns
> name provider directly, you can manage dns youself (make your firewall
> the domain master) and need not involve BadISP at all. Your web and
> email addresses are supplied by dns, so really all you need do is
> cancel the monthly fee for their services.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Basically the actual work to point DNS
to a different IP is fairly minimal. I understand that the website
needs to "be there" when the transfer takes place, but that's our problem.

>
> They are right about it taking 10 hours for dns to propergate through
> the internet, although you can do several things to reduce this time,
> but thats a long story. Them charging for the full 10 hours I've never
> heard of before and $750 for that service is way too expensive.
>

I agree. Oh, and he's not saying that it would take 10 hours to
propogate, that he says would be 48 to 72 hours. He's saying that it
would be 10 hours of work to make the change. Im told our lawyer is
going to email. We'll see.

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

I bet a nicely worded letter from an attorney would change their view :)

John Hyde wrote:

> I realize this is off topic. I'd be grateful for a pointer to the
> correct NG if anyone knows. Of course, an answer would be gratefully
> received too! ;-)
>
> Here's the scenario:
>
> Company has website and email hosted by "BadISP". For completely
> unrelated reasons, company desires to bring email in house and
> webhosting to another provider. They request BadISP's cooperation to
> change domain registration.
>
> BadISP replies in part "The request I received from your new IT person
> was to change web/email hosting providers and DNS hosting. This is
> separate from the $15+ per month fee we charge for dialup internet
> service, which is setup for The web hosting and dns
> transfer is a totally separate issue. Moving dns hosting could/will
> result in email & website interruptions. There is an administrative
> process associated with the request that must be handled as well as tech
> time. We charge 10 hours time @ $75/hr to cover the entire transfer
> process which takes 48-72 hours to fully propagate throughout the web."
>
> Since BadISP is the admin and every other contact on the DNS listing, I
> doubt that the Registrar will talk to the Company.
>
> How could the transfer process possibly take 10 hours? Is there any way
> As I understand it at this point, all that needs to be done is to amend
> the registry for the domain so that DNS points to the correct place.
> Anyone know of a way to force BadISP to sign off?
>
> Thanks
>
> JH

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

John Hyde wrote:
> I realize this is off topic. I'd be grateful for a pointer to the
> correct NG if anyone knows. Of course, an answer would be gratefully
> received too! ;-)

BadISp sounds like a bunch of scammers. Get rid of them, pay them nothing.

1. Do a full FTP download of your site as a backup, and test it.
2. Recover your registry authinfo and keys.
3. Contect your new DNS/website host, give them the keys, they'll deal
with what needs to be done. BadISP cannot interfere - you own the
domain, not them. As soon as you nominate an new host/ISP BadISP is no
longer involved.
4. Ignore BadISP completely. Pay them nothing.

DNS record propogation will take up to 72 hours worldwide. You will
experience delays, mail bounces etc during this period.
My recommendation is to direct the new ISP to make the changes on a
friday afternoon @ close of business. By Monday am everything will be
working and all the DNS rcords will be correctly propogated on your
continent. Any servers in Antarctica may be still out of whack until
Tuesday but who cares.

Cheers,
E.

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

on 2/3/2006 4:09 PM E. said the following:
> John Hyde wrote:
>
>> I realize this is off topic. I'd be grateful for a pointer to the
>> correct NG if anyone knows. Of course, an answer would be gratefully
>> received too! ;-)
>
>
> BadISp sounds like a bunch of scammers. Get rid of them, pay them nothing.
>
> 1. Do a full FTP download of your site as a backup, and test it.
Done

> 2. Recover your registry authinfo and keys.

Not sure what you mean. You mean get the right to tell the Domain Name
Registrar to change DNS reg? Read on.

> 3. Contect your new DNS/website host, give them the keys, they'll deal
> with what needs to be done. BadISP cannot interfere - you own the
> domain, not them. As soon as you nominate an new host/ISP BadISP is no
> longer involved.

That's the problem, BadISP was not in the picture when the domain was
originally registered. But when it renewed @ 18 mo ago, BadISP did the
registration. When you do a Whois, it says that the "owner" of the name
is BadISP. The only way to change that is for the person that the
Registrar sees as the "owner" to give permission. Guess what, he's not
doing it.

> 4. Ignore BadISP completely. Pay them nothing.
Yeah, that would be nice . . . in a perfect world . . ..

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

on 2/3/2006 4:01 AM Robert Wahl said the following:
> I bet a nicely worded letter from an attorney would change their view :)
>
Ya know, we tried that. The answer was: Cant discuss account w/o
authorization from customer. Snail mail to this address . . .

The lawyer says that, yes he can do stuff, but it costs and takes time.
Still, if it comes down to it, I expect that the owners will pay the
lawyer to have the Sheriff kick down the S.O.B's door before they pay
BadISP blood money.

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

In article <11u5fvoqkq1593b@corp.supernews.com>,
John Hyde wrote:

> on 2/2/2006 6:06 PM rounner@yahoo.com said the following:
> > Your dns will be registered with a dns name provider. This provider
> > will be told that the domain master is BadISP. If you contact the dns
> > name provider directly, you can manage dns youself (make your firewall
> > the domain master) and need not involve BadISP at all. Your web and
> > email addresses are supplied by dns, so really all you need do is
> > cancel the monthly fee for their services.
>
> Thanks, that's what I thought. Basically the actual work to point DNS
> to a different IP is fairly minimal. I understand that the website
> needs to "be there" when the transfer takes place, but that's our problem.
>
> >
> > They are right about it taking 10 hours for dns to propergate through
> > the internet, although you can do several things to reduce this time,
> > but thats a long story. Them charging for the full 10 hours I've never
> > heard of before and $750 for that service is way too expensive.
> >
>
> I agree. Oh, and he's not saying that it would take 10 hours to
> propogate, that he says would be 48 to 72 hours. He's saying that it
> would be 10 hours of work to make the change. Im told our lawyer is
> going to email. We'll see.

Actually, I suspect they're saying that for any work they do, they
charge for a minimum of 10 hours.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

Re: Off Topic - DNS Problem

John Hyde wrote:
> on 2/3/2006 4:09 PM E. said the following:
>
>> John Hyde wrote:
>>
>>> I realize this is off topic. I'd be grateful for a pointer to the
>>> correct NG if anyone knows. Of course, an answer would be gratefully
>>> received too! ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> BadISp sounds like a bunch of scammers. Get rid of them, pay them
>> nothing.
>>
>> 1. Do a full FTP download of your site as a backup, and test it.
>
> Done
>
>> 2. Recover your registry authinfo and keys.
>
>
> Not sure what you mean. You mean get the right to tell the Domain Name
> Registrar to change DNS reg? Read on.
>
>> 3. Contect your new DNS/website host, give them the keys, they'll deal
>> with what needs to be done. BadISP cannot interfere - you own the
>> domain, not them. As soon as you nominate an new host/ISP BadISP is no
>> longer involved.
>
>
> That's the problem, BadISP was not in the picture when the domain was
> originally registered. But when it renewed @ 18 mo ago, BadISP did the
> registration. When you do a Whois, it says that the "owner" of the name
> is BadISP. The only way to change that is for the person that the
> Registrar sees as the "owner" to give permission. Guess what, he's not
> doing it.

If by owner you mean "administrative contact", then it's all good. If
they have portrayed themselves as the "owner" they have committed fraud.
Although I am yet to see the field "owner" in a domain record mean
anything.

Registrars deal with this sort of junk all the time. If you own the
domain name legally there is bugger all BadISP can do to stop you.

I've been in the situation you describe and it's not that hard to get
out of.

>> 4. Ignore BadISP completely. Pay them nothing.
> Yeah, that would be nice . . . in a perfect world . . ..

If they have claimed to own the domain (and you didn't sign something
giving them ownership) they have committed fraud, or false
representation type of thing. Look at filing a criminal complaint or
two. I dunno exactly how your laws stand on this so check with a lawyer,
or civil help/legal aid.

personally if there was a clear indication of a crime I would be walking
in to BadISP and saying..

"I am leaving in 5 minutes with the authinfo/keys/passphrase for my
domain, which you are going to give me. Or, I am leaving in 30 seconds
and proceeding to lay criminal charges, followed by contacting domains
authorities/ relevant Ombudsman to have your ability to register domains
removed. Pick one."

Whatever happens, you will have a headache. Only the size will vary.
Cheers,
E.