apt-get broken: exim connection?

I'm surprised at not having gotten more feedback on the zip disk problem I
posted about yesterday: seems like it should be a simple one, at least on
the surface. Anyway, I'll continue to wait and think on that one. But
now, another problem.

Debian Sid's package management system appears to have some major
dependency on exim. I'm not sure why, but I seem to have broken apt-get
in trying to rid my system of exim. You see, for sending email, I use
SMTP servers, so I could see no reason for having exim on my system. When
I installed Debian Sid, it automatically installed exim as well and tried
to get me to configure it. I never set it up, but tried to remove it
right away. I partially succeeded in removing it, only to get it back
again when I installed Mutt (I use Mutt only for checking mail at certain
pop servers: I never compose or try to send mail using it). I installed
Webmin today, since I was reading an article on its capabilities that made
it sound interesting. While looking through Webmin, I noted the add and
remove users and groups features. There, I saw reference to and exim
group - Debian-exim - and decided, in my attempt to get this uneeded
program off my system, I should delete it. I also disabled exim from
starting when I boot the system (though I didn't reboot). As a result,
when I now try to apt-get something, I get the error message
Need to get
0B/2654kB of archives.
After unpacking 6500kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Preconfiguring packages ...
dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statusoverride file
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
and, of course, nothing installs. Thus, my question. What do I need to
do to fix apt-get? Just recreate the group Debian-exim (not sure what
propoerties/permissions this group had)? Is there a way to get exim - and
any other sort of sendmail program - off my system, since I don't use
them? Frankly, I think they only add a further layer of complication to a
system I'm already stretched to comprehend and administer.

Feedback on this new problem will be appreciated.

James
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Re: apt-get broken: exim connection?

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, James Miller wrote:

> I'm surprised at not having gotten more feedback on the zip disk prob=
lem I
> posted about yesterday: seems like it should be a simple one, at lea=
st on
> the surface. Anyway, I'll continue to wait and think on that one. B=
ut
> now, another problem.
>

'more' implies you did get _some_ feedback, so I assume it was mine.
Did you have problems with my response ?

As to apt-get, I try not to use things I don't understand.

Ken
--=20
das eine Mal als Tragödie, das andere Mal als Farce

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Re: apt-get broken: exim connection?

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Ken Moffat wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, James Miller wrote:
>
> > I'm surprised at not having gotten more feedback on the zip disk problem I
> > posted about yesterday: seems like it should be a simple one, at least on
> > the surface. Anyway, I'll continue to wait and think on that one. But
> > now, another problem.
>
> 'more' implies you did get _some_ feedback, so I assume it was mine.
> Did you have problems with my response ?

Other than the fact that it did not help me to get the disk mounted, I had
no problem at all with it. Let me thank you for offering your help
directly, in case you didn't see the indirect thanks I inserted into my
response to Hal's post on the subject: thank you for your attempt. Any
failure in connection with it was doubtless due to my inexperience and
ineptness with things Linux.

Sincerely, James

PS Since I don't see the response I sent to the list after I got Hal's
post, I'll resend it after I send this one. Hal's advice got the thing
finally working for me.
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Re: apt-get broken: exim connection?

Responses interspersed.

At 10:38 AM 6/9/2004 -0500, James Miller wrote:
>I'm surprised at not having gotten more feedback on the zip disk problem I
>posted about yesterday: seems like it should be a simple one, at least on
>the surface. Anyway, I'll continue to wait and think on that one. But
>now, another problem.
>
>Debian Sid's package management system appears to have some major
>dependency on exim. I'm not sure why, but I seem to have broken apt-get
>in trying to rid my system of exim. You see, for sending email, I use
>SMTP servers, so I could see no reason for having exim on my system.

Local mail delivery. So, for example, crond can send e-mail to the userid
of a cron job that fails. Other examples too, but you get the idea.

And yes, exim is part of the Debian base install, allowing ANY .deb package
to assume that exim is present ... something fair to characterize as a
"major dependency". Messing with the Debian base is asking for trouble ...
in general, do it only if you have a compelling reason to change it, not
just because you "see no reason" for it being the way it is.

> When
>I installed Debian Sid, it automatically installed exim as well and tried
>to get me to configure it. I never set it up, but tried to remove it
>right away. I partially succeeded in removing it, only to get it back
>again when I installed Mutt (I use Mutt only for checking mail at certain
>pop servers: I never compose or try to send mail using it).

The mutt package probably depends on the exim package, so apt-get (or
dselect or whatever you used to install mutt) reinstalled it. That's the
way dependency management is supposed to work.

> I installed
>Webmin today, since I was reading an article on its capabilities that made
>it sound interesting. While looking through Webmin, I noted the add and
>remove users and groups features. There, I saw reference to and exim
>group - Debian-exim - and decided, in my attempt to get this uneeded
>program off my system, I should delete it.

I cannot follow this part of what you wrote. (Although I routinely install
and use Debian Sid, I don't use Webmin.) Is this a group that the webmin
install creates? My Sid systems have no such group (in fact, I *think* the
capital D departs from Debian install guidelines).

And am I even right in assuming that by "group" you mean an entry in
/etc/group ?

> I also disabled exim from
>starting when I boot the system (though I didn't reboot). As a result,
>when I now try to apt-get something, I get the error message

Any particular "something"? Or do you mean you get this response
(presumably the kB numbers vary, but the rest of it) with *any* package you
try to install? And you've actually tested several unrelated packages?

Honestly, from what you wrote, I don't even know if "something" here refers
to apt-get switches (install/remove/update/upgrade, and a few more) or the
name of a package you try to apt-get install. This sort of ambiguity is why
I keep saying that real, complete examples are better than paraphrases.

>Need to get
>0B/2654kB of archives.
>After unpacking 6500kB of additional disk space will be used.
>Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
>Preconfiguring packages ...
>dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statusoverride file
>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
>and, of course, nothing installs.

This is not an "of course". Often (alas, not always), even if apt-get has a
problem with some package, it will install others.

And is "statusoverride" a typo for "statoverride"? (Either your typo or the
package's.)

>Thus, my question. What do I need to
>do to fix apt-get? Just recreate the group Debian-exim (not sure what
>propoerties/permissions this group had)?

If you know what package created this group, you can simply apt-get remove
it, then apt-get install it. That should recreate the group properly. But
groups -- that is, entries in /etc/group -- don't have "permissions", only
names, GIDs, passwords, and user lists (for the details, "group" has a man
page) ... so either you are being unclear about what Debian-exim is or I am
minunderstanding you.

You might see what gid is associated with the exim executable, if you need
a clue to the gid to use when restoring the /etc/group entry.

Assuming I guessed right above about the stat/status typo, you might see if
you can correct the override setting with dpkg-statoverride (it has a man
page for the details). Or, if this is the only entry in the file
(/var/lib/dpkg/statoverride), you might just delete it (the line or the file).

Aside from that ... Sid is Debian unstable after all, and sometimes the
installing versions of packages have transient incompatibilities. (I ran
into one just yesterday, with console-tools, when doing a routine apt-get
dist-upgrade.) So it is worth asking if you've done an apt-get
update/upgrade (or dist-upgrade) in connection with this install. And if
you've redone the update/upgrade since the problem occurred. (My
console-tools problem was fixed this morning, for example.)

>Is there a way to get exim - and
>any other sort of sendmail program - off my system, since I don't use
>them? Frankly, I think they only add a further layer of complication to a
>system I'm already stretched to comprehend and administer.

Not a good one. I wouldn't do it myself unless I were modifying the system
in a way that involved no longer using the Debian package-management system
for updates, ungrades, and installs. Every distro sticks you with some bits
of overhead, and this is simply part of Debian's.



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Re: apt-get broken: exim connection?

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, James Miller wrote:

>
> Other than the fact that it did not help me to get the disk mounted, =
I had
> no problem at all with it. Let me thank you for offering your help
> directly, in case you didn't see the indirect thanks I inserted into =
my
> response to Hal's post on the subject: thank you for your attempt. A=
ny
> failure in connection with it was doubtless due to my inexperience an=
d
> ineptness with things Linux.
>
> Sincerely, James

Sorry, I'm not usually picky. The thing is, if advice doesn't help,
you have to come back and report.

>
> PS Since I don't see the response I sent to the list after I got Hal=
's
> post, I'll resend it after I send this one. Hal's advice got the thi=
ng
> finally working for me.
>

The dreaded scsi emulation strikes again ;-)

Ken
--=20
das eine Mal als Tragödie, das andere Mal als Farce

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Re: apt-get broken: exim connection?

James Miller wrote:

>I'm surprised at not having gotten more feedback on the zip disk problem I
>posted about yesterday: seems like it should be a simple one, at least on
>the surface. Anyway, I'll continue to wait and think on that one. But
>now, another problem.
>
>
>
>
Did you try apt-get remove (or some command to that effect?)
Think it should remove all traces of exim form your system.....
One word of advice though, Never do yourself what apt-get or dpkg or
aptitude can do for you...
They are the boss and like to show ti off as well ;-)

Joy.M.M

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