Forwarding Not Working

I use Outlook 2003 and have been trying without success to forward a
message I received to another email account. My Internet connection is
through Cox so I have to use their SMTP server. The message goes out
but never gets to webmail.att.net even after I turn off AT&T's
spam-blocker.

I captured the OPMLOG in an attempt to prove that the problem is at
Cox. Could someone please look at this and confirm that this indeed
appears to be true?

Thanks.
Bob


2006.04.04 10:17:46 <<<< Logging Started (level is LTF_TRACE) >>>>
2006.04.04 10:17:46 ATT: Synch operation started (flags = 00000001)
2006.04.04 10:17:46 ATT: UploadItems: 1 messages to send
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Begin execution
2006.04.04 10:17:46 ATT: Synch operation started (flags = 00000030)
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Port: 25, Secure: no, SPA: no
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Finding host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Connecting to host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 ATT: DoPOPDownload(flags = 00000030, max msg =
ffffffff): full items
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Begin
execution
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): =========
Initial blob =========
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net):
===================================
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Port: 995,
Secure: SSL, SPA: no
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Finding host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Connected to host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Connecting to
host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 220 eastrmmtao02.cox.net
ESMTP server (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) ready
Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:17:44 -0400
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): [tx] EHLO BobDell
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Securing
connection
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-eastrmmtao02.cox.net
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-HELP
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-XREMOTEQUEUE
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-ETRN
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-PIPELINING
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-DSN
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250-8BITMIME
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250 SIZE 10485760
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Authorized to host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): Connected to host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): [tx] MAIL FROM: <*****>
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250 Sender <*****> Ok
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): [tx] RCPT TO: <*****>
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 250 Recipient <*****> Ok
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): [tx] DATA
2006.04.04 10:17:46 SMTP (smtp-host): 354 Ok Send data ending with
.
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Connected to
host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): +OK
<17670.1144163866@worldnet.att.net> (mtiwpxc04) Maillennium POP3/PROXY
server #79
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Authorizing to
server
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): [tx] USER
bsimon
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): +OK
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): [tx] PASS
*****
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): +OK ready
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Authorized to
host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Connected to
host
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): [tx] STAT
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): +OK 0 0
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): ==== Comparing
server and local blobs ====
2006.04.04 10:17:46 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net):
==========================================
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Do deletions:
LoS: no
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Disconnecting
from host
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): [tx] QUIT
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): +OK
worldnet.att.net
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): Disconnected
from host
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): ========= No
blob changes =========
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net):
===================================
2006.04.04 10:17:47 POP3 (ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net): End execution
2006.04.04 10:17:47 ATT: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr = 0x00000000
2006.04.04 10:17:47 ATT: Synch operation completed
2006.04.04 10:17:48 SMTP (smtp-host): [tx]
..
2006.04.04 10:17:48 SMTP (smtp-host): 250 Message received:
20060404151744.VNOA14821.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@BobDell
2006.04.04 10:17:49 SMTP (smtp-host): End execution
2006.04.04 10:17:49 ATT: ReportStatus: RSF_COMPLETED, hr = 0x00000000
2006.04.04 10:17:49 ATT: Synch operation completed
2006.04.04 10:17:54 Resource manager terminated

Re: Forwarding Not Working

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-18156-1144191571-0005
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Content-Disposition: inline
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bobneworleans@yahoo.com writes:

> I use Outlook 2003 and have been trying without success to forward a
> message I received to another email account. My Internet connection is
> through Cox so I have to use their SMTP server. The message goes out
> but never gets to webmail.att.net even after I turn off AT&T's
> spam-blocker.

[root@headache httpd]# telnet gateway1.att.net 25
Trying 204.127.134.23...
Connected to gateway1.att.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
450 busy - please try later
Connection closed by foreign host.
[root@headache httpd]#
[root@headache httpd]# telnet gateway2.att.net 25
Trying 12.102.240.23...
Connected to gateway2.att.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
450 busy - please try later
Connection closed by foreign host.

Try again when the rocket scientists at att.net round up all their hamsters,
put them back on their wheels, and begin accepting mail again.

> I captured the OPMLOG in an attempt to prove that the problem is at
> Cox. Could someone please look at this and confirm that this indeed
> appears to be true?

> 2006.04.04 10:17:48 SMTP (smtp-host): 250 Message received:
> 20060404151744.VNOA14821.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@BobDell

The above shows that cox.net definitely received your message.

This is all that you can document. Without looking at cox.net's mail
internal mail logs, it is not possible to conclude if they delivered the
message to att.net's mail servers, and then they lost it; or if they lost
the message; or if it's still stuck on cox.net's mail servers, waiting for
att.net to pay their electric bill, and be capable of accepting mail again.


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Re: Forwarding Not Working

Sam,
Thanks for the reply. Your analysis was interesting. I presume you
found the names gateway1 and gateway2.att.net by doing an MX lookup.

I'm a novice but I wonder if your approach (trying to make an smtp
connection via telnet) is valid because the pop3 server requires an
ssl connection using port 995. Given this, would you expect a 450
busy message even if the server is operational?

Bob

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:59:32 -0500, Sam wrote:

>bobneworleans@yahoo.com writes:
>
>> I use Outlook 2003 and have been trying without success to forward a
>> message I received to another email account. My Internet connection is
>> through Cox so I have to use their SMTP server. The message goes out
>> but never gets to webmail.att.net even after I turn off AT&T's
>> spam-blocker.
>
>[root@headache httpd]# telnet gateway1.att.net 25
>Trying 204.127.134.23...
>Connected to gateway1.att.net.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>450 busy - please try later
>Connection closed by foreign host.
>[root@headache httpd]#
>[root@headache httpd]# telnet gateway2.att.net 25
>Trying 12.102.240.23...
>Connected to gateway2.att.net.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>450 busy - please try later
>Connection closed by foreign host.
>
>Try again when the rocket scientists at att.net round up all their hamsters,
>put them back on their wheels, and begin accepting mail again.
>
>> I captured the OPMLOG in an attempt to prove that the problem is at
>> Cox. Could someone please look at this and confirm that this indeed
>> appears to be true?
>
>> 2006.04.04 10:17:48 SMTP (smtp-host): 250 Message received:
>> 20060404151744.VNOA14821.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@BobDell
>
>The above shows that cox.net definitely received your message.
>
>This is all that you can document. Without looking at cox.net's mail
>internal mail logs, it is not possible to conclude if they delivered the
>message to att.net's mail servers, and then they lost it; or if they lost
>the message; or if it's still stuck on cox.net's mail servers, waiting for
>att.net to pay their electric bill, and be capable of accepting mail again.


--
Bob Simon
Please remove X from domain for direct replies.

Re: Forwarding Not Working

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 23:13:25 -0500, Bob Simon wrote:

>I'm a novice but I wonder if your approach (trying to make an smtp
>connection via telnet) is valid because the pop3 server requires an
>ssl connection using port 995. Given this, would you expect a 450
>busy message even if the server is operational?

Apples and oranges. The SMTP MX servers listen on port 25, that is the
standard all over the Internet. If you want to get email from the
Internet, you have an MX server listening on port 25, otherwise you don't
get any email. Sam found that the MX servers for ATT were "too busy" to
accept email. If that just happens every now and then it shouldn't be a
problem, but if that is an ongoing situation, sending servers could be
refused too many times and eventually give up on trying deliver email to
that outfit.
None of the above has anything to do with POP3. The normal sequence of
events would be for an MX server to accept email, and then have it put
into user mailboxes. Then, the users would use POP3 to check out the
email that had been put into their mailboxes. The standard POP3 port is
110, dunno if there is a standard POP3 SSL port, but that doesn't matter.
What matters is apples and oranges. SMTP and POP3 are apples and oranges.

--
Steve Baker

Re: Forwarding Not Working

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 03:18:15 -0400, Steve Baker
wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 23:13:25 -0500, Bob Simon wrote:
>
>>I'm a novice but I wonder if your approach (trying to make an smtp
>>connection via telnet) is valid because the pop3 server requires an
>>ssl connection using port 995. Given this, would you expect a 450
>>busy message even if the server is operational?
>
> Apples and oranges. The SMTP MX servers listen on port 25, that is the
>standard all over the Internet. If you want to get email from the
>Internet, you have an MX server listening on port 25, otherwise you don't
>get any email. Sam found that the MX servers for ATT were "too busy" to
>accept email. If that just happens every now and then it shouldn't be a
>problem, but if that is an ongoing situation, sending servers could be
>refused too many times and eventually give up on trying deliver email to
>that outfit.
> None of the above has anything to do with POP3. The normal sequence of
>events would be for an MX server to accept email, and then have it put
>into user mailboxes. Then, the users would use POP3 to check out the
>email that had been put into their mailboxes. The standard POP3 port is
>110, dunno if there is a standard POP3 SSL port, but that doesn't matter.
>What matters is apples and oranges. SMTP and POP3 are apples and oranges.

Steve,
You're right, I did get SMTP and POP3 confused. Now that you've
straightened me out on that, let me try my question again:

Since the AT&T SMTP server requires that I set my Outlook client to
use authentication and an SSL connection on port 465, could that
explain why the server reported a 450 busy message to Sam's connection
attempt?

This server received and delivered to my account today's headlines
from NY Times, a daily newsletter, plus a half-dozen junk messages.
So even if it's overloaded, at least it's not down. On the other
hand, Outlook just popped up a window that said it could not connect
to my AT&T POP3 server, so there is at least some kind of intermittant
problem with their network or mail service.
Bob

--
Bob Simon
Please remove X from domain for direct replies.

Re: Forwarding Not Working

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

--=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-18224-1144365087-0008
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bob Simon writes:

> Steve,
> You're right, I did get SMTP and POP3 confused. Now that you've
> straightened me out on that, let me try my question again:
>
> Since the AT&T SMTP server requires that I set my Outlook client to
> use authentication and an SSL connection on port 465, could that
> explain why the server reported a 450 busy message to Sam's connection
> attempt?

No. One has nothing to do with the other.

> So even if it's overloaded, at least it's not down. On the other
> hand, Outlook just popped up a window that said it could not connect
> to my AT&T POP3 server, so there is at least some kind of intermittant
> problem with their network or mail service.

Yes. Generally, when it comes to E-mail, you get what you pay for. If your
webmail service from att is free, then that's that.

Furthermore, you're probably paying about forty bucks to Cox for your
cablemodem account. For that kind of money, I hope you're not expecting
their technical support people to even have the vague idea of what SMTP
means -- HAHAHAHAHAHA. All you'll get, when and if you call them, is
someone earning a minimum wage who'll read you a script, and will have only
the vaguest notion of what he's saying.

So, the only thing you can do is wait and hope that whatever the problem is,
somebody will fix it. There is nothing you can do. But, if you have plenty
of time, you can certainly try. You don't have much to lose, and you may
get lucky. I just read another guy's story who managed to find someone in
his ISP to know what DNS is, and what was broken with the ISP's DNS servers.
Even though it only took him two hours to do that, I think that it was a
*marvelous* accomplishment! So don't despair. There might be some hope for
you, just yet.



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Re: Forwarding Not Working

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 08:05:06 -0500, Bob Simon
wrote:

>Since the AT&T SMTP server requires that I set my Outlook client to
>use authentication and an SSL connection on port 465, could that
>explain why the server reported a 450 busy message to Sam's connection
>attempt?

No. Anyway, Sam "connected" OK, but the server just wasn't accepting
email at that time.
Now you're kinda talking Granny Smith vs Macintosh apples, but still
unrelated situations. It's extremely unlikely that the ATT MX servers are
the same servers that you use to send email, and even if they were, it
doesn't relate to what you're asking (even though we're talking SMTP
servers in both cases). An MX server is published in DNS as the server
that all Internet outfits are supposed to use to deliver email to an
outfit. Those servers all listen on port 25. That server that is
listening on port 465 has nothing to do with receiving email from the
Internet, it's about providing SMTP service to you to send your email to
the other Internet outfits.

A kinda amusing situation is that the Comcast MX servers won't accept
email from Comcast "consumer" addresses. Too many Comcast spam zombies.
But it does illustrate that incoming and outgoing email are often handled
by different servers, and that the two functions are pretty much
independent.

--
Steve Baker