Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 11.04.2006 07:29:02 von vjp2.at

You folks mean to tell me there's no program out there that would
take a file of simple text and blatherise it to the level of another
"reference" file? Or Adjust the "Fog Index" of a text file up or down
from its input level. I'm totally serious. I'm tired of fighting.
I just want to "get along".

I have one idea: you score each verb and noun on, say, five,
different scales, then you pile on similarly ranked adverbs and
adjectives until you meet the volume requirement. Or you remove
accordingly. In MS-Word type environments, you score less necessary
modifiers, say , with orange-collored undersquiggles, the less
necessary, the more undersquiggles.

Message-ID:

I'm sure I've seen programs that generate blather but now I
can't find one. I'm stuck in a wierd situation that comes up often
enough: Some third-worlders insist you write pretentious casuistry
when a few simple words are enough. It is sad in these day of "Fog
Index" that we have people who are commitedly ideological and even
theologically dogmatic about making prose incomprehensibly obfuscated
and complicated. I want it in perl so it can be extremely portable.

However, I want something I can control. For example, when it sees
the word "customer" or "strategy" it should randomly chose one of
three flowing phrases. I can write a simple one-to-one in sed, but I
really hope some ingenious soul has already compiled a blatherisation
table that I only need to tweak. The issue is the text should require
no more than, say, ten percent editing to make it seem like it came
from a genuinely glib casuistrous bullshit artist.

I wouldn't mind if the program is ingenious enough to go both ways,
or even to be adjustable (ie, "please set the fog index"). I am
confronted with enough blathermaniacs and antiblathermaniacs to make
my life way too complicated. By the time I get used to one lunatic, I
have to instead conform to the other.

Message-ID:

I think you could broadly generalise the most common writing styles are:

1. Cryptic misappropriated connotation (demanded by "scholars")
2. Telegraphic commercial (Taught by "Communications" programs)
3. Latinate bureaucratic (demanded by 3rd world bureaucrats)
4. Literary Synonymania (demanded by "English" professors/teachers)

And these variances seem to be used to discriminate and segregate
dogmatically and unfairly. "Can't we just all get along?"

Message-ID:

I went hunting on google for "chatterbot perl knowledge base". I
"knew" Hugh Kenner back on BiX ca 1988. Foggy is a riot, but not what
I needed, though I think sometime it may prove valuable when
frustration with fools triggers my evil streak. I need foggy with a
twist - a knowledge base I can tweak like foggy, but it should take a
simple paragraph and turn it into a long blatherous paper that I can
then spend a few minutes editing and it will say pretty much the same
thing as my simple paragraph. For example I write "The customer is a
petunia" and it writes "Our customers are very important to us. One of
our multifarous customers has proven to be a petunia. Wheretofore and
heretofore, this important,vaulabel and significant datum will be
assessed strategically and applied to our models wherefrom we shall
therefore optimise our tactics, strategy and operations so that we
fully capture the economic benefits derivable from this customer."
One form would work with a knowledge base where it is triggered by
words like customer and petunia into random but reasonably meaningful
ramblings. The other would be even better if it took a file with
writing similar to the target and transformed the source using the
target as a model (for style and size). I would really wish this was
in perl so I could use it on the fly anywhere!

nyc.transit Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:19:28 +0000 (UTC)

You remind me of how my folks got mistreated. They spoke with a
heavy accent but at the university level. A lot of academics would
love to converse endlessly with their precise and inquiring minds.
Some "customer service" types would just hang up the phone when they
heard the accent. One of my English teachers couldn't get over it how
my folks had the nerve to correct her spelling.

I was born here and once I had a boss say that the reason I
disgreed on policy issues was I needed to improve my writing since I
was Greeks and sent me to a writing class (she was Cuban and spoke
with an accent, but I don't have an accent). Once someone asked me
"You speak English so well, when did you come here" I looked at my
watch and said "Oh, about 120 yrs ago." (Technically true, though my
stowaway ancestors got sent back a month later) I once went to speak
to a dean about something and he mentioned the essence of the
conversation to a reporter and I saw in print that he described me as
a foreign student (he, too, had an accent and was foreign born). When
a previous president of my alma mater was introduced to alums, he saw
my name badge and said "Ohhhh, Greek" shaking his head knowingly as I
was seriously thinking of swatting him on the head like a fly.

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 11.04.2006 08:16:36 von vjp2.at

Please save me. If I have to keep dealing with such warped humanoids I
will end up becomingone of them. I need a program to deal with them so
I don't have to. (Ok, the following is a spoof, but believe it or not,
they think it's real. I tried it. This is what our cities are full of.)

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Director of Percutaneous Dememtiation

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 11.04.2006 08:16:36 von vjp2.at

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 11.04.2006 16:27:21 von uraniumcommittee

See:

http://www.drizzle.com/~jwalsh/sokal/articles/gkamiya.html

http://www.salon.com/media/media960517.html

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/trans gress_v2_singlefile.html

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> You folks mean to tell me there's no program out there that would
> take a file of simple text and blatherise it to the level of another
> "reference" file? Or Adjust the "Fog Index" of a text file up or down
> from its input level. I'm totally serious. I'm tired of fighting.
> I just want to "get along".
>
> I have one idea: you score each verb and noun on, say, five,
> different scales, then you pile on similarly ranked adverbs and
> adjectives until you meet the volume requirement. Or you remove
> accordingly. In MS-Word type environments, you score less necessary
> modifiers, say , with orange-collored undersquiggles, the less
> necessary, the more undersquiggles.
>
> Message-ID:
>
> I'm sure I've seen programs that generate blather but now I
> can't find one. I'm stuck in a wierd situation that comes up often
> enough: Some third-worlders insist you write pretentious casuistry
> when a few simple words are enough. It is sad in these day of "Fog
> Index" that we have people who are commitedly ideological and even
> theologically dogmatic about making prose incomprehensibly obfuscated
> and complicated. I want it in perl so it can be extremely portable.
>
> However, I want something I can control. For example, when it sees
> the word "customer" or "strategy" it should randomly chose one of
> three flowing phrases. I can write a simple one-to-one in sed, but I
> really hope some ingenious soul has already compiled a blatherisation
> table that I only need to tweak. The issue is the text should require
> no more than, say, ten percent editing to make it seem like it came
> from a genuinely glib casuistrous bullshit artist.
>
> I wouldn't mind if the program is ingenious enough to go both ways,
> or even to be adjustable (ie, "please set the fog index"). I am
> confronted with enough blathermaniacs and antiblathermaniacs to make
> my life way too complicated. By the time I get used to one lunatic, I
> have to instead conform to the other.
>
> Message-ID:
>
> I think you could broadly generalise the most common writing styles are:
>
> 1. Cryptic misappropriated connotation (demanded by "scholars")
> 2. Telegraphic commercial (Taught by "Communications" programs)
> 3. Latinate bureaucratic (demanded by 3rd world bureaucrats)
> 4. Literary Synonymania (demanded by "English" professors/teachers)
>
> And these variances seem to be used to discriminate and segregate
> dogmatically and unfairly. "Can't we just all get along?"
>
> Message-ID:
>
> I went hunting on google for "chatterbot perl knowledge base". I
> "knew" Hugh Kenner back on BiX ca 1988. Foggy is a riot, but not what
> I needed, though I think sometime it may prove valuable when
> frustration with fools triggers my evil streak. I need foggy with a
> twist - a knowledge base I can tweak like foggy, but it should take a
> simple paragraph and turn it into a long blatherous paper that I can
> then spend a few minutes editing and it will say pretty much the same
> thing as my simple paragraph. For example I write "The customer is a
> petunia" and it writes "Our customers are very important to us. One of
> our multifarous customers has proven to be a petunia. Wheretofore and
> heretofore, this important,vaulabel and significant datum will be
> assessed strategically and applied to our models wherefrom we shall
> therefore optimise our tactics, strategy and operations so that we
> fully capture the economic benefits derivable from this customer."
> One form would work with a knowledge base where it is triggered by
> words like customer and petunia into random but reasonably meaningful
> ramblings. The other would be even better if it took a file with
> writing similar to the target and transformed the source using the
> target as a model (for style and size). I would really wish this was
> in perl so I could use it on the fly anywhere!
>
>
> nyc.transit Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:19:28 +0000 (UTC)
>
> You remind me of how my folks got mistreated. They spoke with a
> heavy accent but at the university level. A lot of academics would
> love to converse endlessly with their precise and inquiring minds.
> Some "customer service" types would just hang up the phone when they
> heard the accent. One of my English teachers couldn't get over it how
> my folks had the nerve to correct her spelling.
>
> I was born here and once I had a boss say that the reason I
> disgreed on policy issues was I needed to improve my writing since I
> was Greeks and sent me to a writing class (she was Cuban and spoke
> with an accent, but I don't have an accent). Once someone asked me
> "You speak English so well, when did you come here" I looked at my
> watch and said "Oh, about 120 yrs ago." (Technically true, though my
> stowaway ancestors got sent back a month later) I once went to speak
> to a dean about something and he mentioned the essence of the
> conversation to a reporter and I saw in print that he described me as
> a foreign student (he, too, had an accent and was foreign born). When
> a previous president of my alma mater was introduced to alums, he saw
> my name badge and said "Ohhhh, Greek" shaking his head knowingly as I
> was seriously thinking of swatting him on the head like a fly.
>
>
>
>
> - = -
> Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
> BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 11.04.2006 16:27:21 von uraniumcommittee

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 13.04.2006 18:37:52 von vjp2.at

The problems with academia are a different issue than the one I was
talking about, but you are correct in bringing it to our
attention. You see, during the Cold War, Henry Meadows and Vannevar
Bush thought the way to beat the soviets was to do whatever the
soviets were doing, only do more of it, so they built up a scientific
bureaucracy that today is actually choking innovation and doing it at
taxpayer expence.

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 13.04.2006 18:37:52 von vjp2.at

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.07.2006 19:33:13 von harvelini

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> You folks mean to tell me there's no program out there that would
> take a file of simple text and blatherise it to the level of another
> "reference" file? Or Adjust the "Fog Index" of a text file up or down
> from its input level. I'm totally serious. I'm tired of fighting.
> I just want to "get along".
>
> I have one idea: you score each verb and noun on, say, five,
> different scales, then you pile on similarly ranked adverbs and
> adjectives until you meet the volume requirement. Or you remove
> accordingly. In MS-Word type environments, you score less necessary
> modifiers, say , with orange-collored undersquiggles, the less
> necessary, the more undersquiggles.
>
> Message-ID:
>
> I'm sure I've seen programs that generate blather but now I
> can't find one. I'm stuck in a wierd situation that comes up often
> enough: Some third-worlders insist you write pretentious casuistry
> when a few simple words are enough. It is sad in these day of "Fog
> Index" that we have people who are commitedly ideological and even
> theologically dogmatic about making prose incomprehensibly obfuscated
> and complicated. I want it in perl so it can be extremely portable.
>
> However, I want something I can control. For example, when it sees
> the word "customer" or "strategy" it should randomly chose one of
> three flowing phrases. I can write a simple one-to-one in sed, but I
> really hope some ingenious soul has already compiled a blatherisation
> table that I only need to tweak. The issue is the text should require
> no more than, say, ten percent editing to make it seem like it came
> from a genuinely glib casuistrous bullshit artist.
>
> I wouldn't mind if the program is ingenious enough to go both ways,
> or even to be adjustable (ie, "please set the fog index"). I am
> confronted with enough blathermaniacs and antiblathermaniacs to make
> my life way too complicated. By the time I get used to one lunatic, I
> have to instead conform to the other.
>
> Message-ID:
>
> I think you could broadly generalise the most common writing styles are:
>
> 1. Cryptic misappropriated connotation (demanded by "scholars")
> 2. Telegraphic commercial (Taught by "Communications" programs)
> 3. Latinate bureaucratic (demanded by 3rd world bureaucrats)
> 4. Literary Synonymania (demanded by "English" professors/teachers)
>
> And these variances seem to be used to discriminate and segregate
> dogmatically and unfairly. "Can't we just all get along?"
>
> Message-ID:
>
> I went hunting on google for "chatterbot perl knowledge base". I
> "knew" Hugh Kenner back on BiX ca 1988. Foggy is a riot, but not what
> I needed, though I think sometime it may prove valuable when
> frustration with fools triggers my evil streak. I need foggy with a
> twist - a knowledge base I can tweak like foggy, but it should take a
> simple paragraph and turn it into a long blatherous paper that I can
> then spend a few minutes editing and it will say pretty much the same
> thing as my simple paragraph. For example I write "The customer is a
> petunia" and it writes "Our customers are very important to us. One of
> our multifarous customers has proven to be a petunia. Wheretofore and
> heretofore, this important,vaulabel and significant datum will be
> assessed strategically and applied to our models wherefrom we shall
> therefore optimise our tactics, strategy and operations so that we
> fully capture the economic benefits derivable from this customer."
> One form would work with a knowledge base where it is triggered by
> words like customer and petunia into random but reasonably meaningful
> ramblings. The other would be even better if it took a file with
> writing similar to the target and transformed the source using the
> target as a model (for style and size). I would really wish this was
> in perl so I could use it on the fly anywhere!
>
>
> nyc.transit Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:19:28 +0000 (UTC)
>
> You remind me of how my folks got mistreated. They spoke with a
> heavy accent but at the university level. A lot of academics would
> love to converse endlessly with their precise and inquiring minds.
> Some "customer service" types would just hang up the phone when they
> heard the accent. One of my English teachers couldn't get over it how
> my folks had the nerve to correct her spelling.
>
> I was born here and once I had a boss say that the reason I
> disgreed on policy issues was I needed to improve my writing since I
> was Greeks and sent me to a writing class (she was Cuban and spoke
> with an accent, but I don't have an accent). Once someone asked me
> "You speak English so well, when did you come here" I looked at my
> watch and said "Oh, about 120 yrs ago." (Technically true, though my
> stowaway ancestors got sent back a month later) I once went to speak
> to a dean about something and he mentioned the essence of the
> conversation to a reporter and I saw in print that he described me as
> a foreign student (he, too, had an accent and was foreign born). When
> a previous president of my alma mater was introduced to alums, he saw
> my name badge and said "Ohhhh, Greek" shaking his head knowingly as I
> was seriously thinking of swatting him on the head like a fly.
>
>
>
>
> - = -
> Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
> BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
>

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.07.2006 19:33:13 von harvelini