Status update?

It's been nearly a year since we've heard about the status of MyODBC 3.51.xx
and MyODBC 5. Could you please post some sort of roadmap to the ODBC list
and forum, no matter how general it may be. A lot of developers are
expressing their frustration with the current driver vs. MySQL Server 4.1.xx
and 5.0.xx.

With MySQL Server 5.1 around the corner, it would be nice to know if we will
see a stable MyODBC 5 that supports all the features Server 5 has to offer.

Thanks in advance



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Re: Status update?

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Bill Williams said the following on 5/19/2006 2:38 PM:
> It's been nearly a year since we've heard about the status of MyODBC
> 3.51.xx and MyODBC 5. Could you please post some sort of roadmap to the
> ODBC list and forum, no matter how general it may be. A lot of
> developers are expressing their frustration with the current driver vs.
> MySQL Server 4.1.xx and 5.0.xx.
>
> With MySQL Server 5.1 around the corner, it would be nice to know if we
> will see a stable MyODBC 5 that supports all the features Server 5 has
> to offer.
>
> Thanks in advance


Bill, David and the rest of our ODBC user community,

First, let me apologize in advance, as I realize we haven't kept the
information flowing as much as we should.

We're on the cusp of another Connector/ODBC 5.0 release (honest, check
the commit messages at http://lists.mysql.com/commits). What we really
need from the community is testing, as we didn't get a lot of people
trying out the first alpha of 5.0, so we got basically zero feedback.

The more community testing we get of this release, the sooner we can
release fixes to it, ideally every week/two weeks or so until it becomes
stable.

In my heart-of-hearts, I'm hoping to have this all cleaned up by mid-summer.

Peter's been working on this release solid for the past two months. I've
also finally been given the go-ahead to hire one more developer to work
on ODBC in tandem with Peter. Our plan is to have this developer work on
the backlog of bugs in 3.51, as well as helping out with any new bugs
that that arrise with Connector/ODBC 5.0.

What we could really use from the community is the following:

(1) Testing of 5.0 releases, and testing of releases with fixes.

(2) Feedback on what bugs are most important to you. Unfortunately, we
don't have a really granular bug priority system, so I'd like to ask the
community what bugs are most painful for them to deal with (David I have
your list already). We have some good ideas on which ones are
large-impact, but some we might be missing.

(3) If you, or someone you know would be interested in working for MySQL
on our ODBC driver, please let me know.

What we promise in return:

* Connector/ODBC 5.0 released as soon as possible, at a quality level
that makes it usable for all of you that supports prepared statements,
views and stored procedures.

* Bugs fixed in 3.51 in an order that make sense, and solves the largest
problems first.

* Much more interaction with the community at large (it's actually a
quarterly goal for the entire team). Feel free to yell at me if you
don't see us on this mailing list or the forums enough.

-Mark





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Re: Status update? -- Guidelines for MyODBC 5 testers

Mark,

A quick thought on recruiting testers:

I think we can get more people involved with testing if we post the testing
guidelines, i.e. a quick HOWTO regarding searching for and submitting bugs,
where to get the most recent test builds, etc. I have a feeling there are
people on the forums that would like to help, but they are not familiar with
the procedures to do so. A "sticky" message on the MyODBC forum with the
HOWTO should help recruit more testers.


>From: Mark Matthews
>To: Bill Williams , ddi@dubex.dk
>CC: myodbc@lists.mysql.com, Peter Harvey
>Subject: Re: Status update?
>Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 15:24:02 -0500
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>Bill Williams said the following on 5/19/2006 2:38 PM:
> > It's been nearly a year since we've heard about the status of MyODBC
> > 3.51.xx and MyODBC 5. Could you please post some sort of roadmap to the
> > ODBC list and forum, no matter how general it may be. A lot of
> > developers are expressing their frustration with the current driver vs.
> > MySQL Server 4.1.xx and 5.0.xx.
> >
> > With MySQL Server 5.1 around the corner, it would be nice to know if we
> > will see a stable MyODBC 5 that supports all the features Server 5 has
> > to offer.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
>
>Bill, David and the rest of our ODBC user community,
>
>First, let me apologize in advance, as I realize we haven't kept the
>information flowing as much as we should.
>
>We're on the cusp of another Connector/ODBC 5.0 release (honest, check
>the commit messages at http://lists.mysql.com/commits). What we really
>need from the community is testing, as we didn't get a lot of people
>trying out the first alpha of 5.0, so we got basically zero feedback.
>
>The more community testing we get of this release, the sooner we can
>release fixes to it, ideally every week/two weeks or so until it becomes
>stable.
>
>In my heart-of-hearts, I'm hoping to have this all cleaned up by
>mid-summer.
>
>Peter's been working on this release solid for the past two months. I've
>also finally been given the go-ahead to hire one more developer to work
>on ODBC in tandem with Peter. Our plan is to have this developer work on
>the backlog of bugs in 3.51, as well as helping out with any new bugs
>that that arrise with Connector/ODBC 5.0.
>
>What we could really use from the community is the following:
>
>(1) Testing of 5.0 releases, and testing of releases with fixes.
>
>(2) Feedback on what bugs are most important to you. Unfortunately, we
>don't have a really granular bug priority system, so I'd like to ask the
>community what bugs are most painful for them to deal with (David I have
>your list already). We have some good ideas on which ones are
>large-impact, but some we might be missing.
>
>(3) If you, or someone you know would be interested in working for MySQL
>on our ODBC driver, please let me know.
>
>What we promise in return:
>
>* Connector/ODBC 5.0 released as soon as possible, at a quality level
>that makes it usable for all of you that supports prepared statements,
>views and stored procedures.
>
>* Bugs fixed in 3.51 in an order that make sense, and solves the largest
>problems first.
>
>* Much more interaction with the community at large (it's actually a
>quarterly goal for the entire team). Feel free to yell at me if you
>don't see us on this mailing list or the forums enough.
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
>
>
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RE: Status update? -- Guidelines for MyODBC 5 testers

I for one would be willing to carry out some testing for the MySQL group as
I use and benefit from their products. The least I can do is provide
feedback and be a part of the continued improvement.
As I have never been involved in such testing, Bill's suggestion of some How
To, or introduction would be much appreciated, as otherwise the prospect is
somewhat daunting.

NickHK

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Williams [mailto:billywill31@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:04 AM
To: mark@mysql.com
Cc: myodbc@lists.mysql.com; pharvey@mysql.com
Subject: Re: Status update? -- Guidelines for MyODBC 5 testers


Mark,

A quick thought on recruiting testers:

I think we can get more people involved with testing if we post the testing
guidelines, i.e. a quick HOWTO regarding searching for and submitting bugs,
where to get the most recent test builds, etc. I have a feeling there are
people on the forums that would like to help, but they are not familiar with
the procedures to do so. A "sticky" message on the MyODBC forum with the
HOWTO should help recruit more testers.


>From: Mark Matthews
>To: Bill Williams , ddi@dubex.dk
>CC: myodbc@lists.mysql.com, Peter Harvey
>Subject: Re: Status update?
>Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 15:24:02 -0500
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mailgate.mysql.com ([213.136.52.68]) by
>bay0-mc2-f2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 19
>May 2006 13:24:11 -0700
>Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by
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>
>Bill Williams said the following on 5/19/2006 2:38 PM:
> > It's been nearly a year since we've heard about the status of MyODBC
> > 3.51.xx and MyODBC 5. Could you please post some sort of roadmap to the
> > ODBC list and forum, no matter how general it may be. A lot of
> > developers are expressing their frustration with the current driver vs.
> > MySQL Server 4.1.xx and 5.0.xx.
> >
> > With MySQL Server 5.1 around the corner, it would be nice to know if we
> > will see a stable MyODBC 5 that supports all the features Server 5 has
> > to offer.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
>
>Bill, David and the rest of our ODBC user community,
>
>First, let me apologize in advance, as I realize we haven't kept the
>information flowing as much as we should.
>
>We're on the cusp of another Connector/ODBC 5.0 release (honest, check
>the commit messages at http://lists.mysql.com/commits). What we really
>need from the community is testing, as we didn't get a lot of people
>trying out the first alpha of 5.0, so we got basically zero feedback.
>
>The more community testing we get of this release, the sooner we can
>release fixes to it, ideally every week/two weeks or so until it becomes
>stable.
>
>In my heart-of-hearts, I'm hoping to have this all cleaned up by
>mid-summer.
>
>Peter's been working on this release solid for the past two months. I've
>also finally been given the go-ahead to hire one more developer to work
>on ODBC in tandem with Peter. Our plan is to have this developer work on
>the backlog of bugs in 3.51, as well as helping out with any new bugs
>that that arrise with Connector/ODBC 5.0.
>
>What we could really use from the community is the following:
>
>(1) Testing of 5.0 releases, and testing of releases with fixes.
>
>(2) Feedback on what bugs are most important to you. Unfortunately, we
>don't have a really granular bug priority system, so I'd like to ask the
>community what bugs are most painful for them to deal with (David I have
>your list already). We have some good ideas on which ones are
>large-impact, but some we might be missing.
>
>(3) If you, or someone you know would be interested in working for MySQL
>on our ODBC driver, please let me know.
>
>What we promise in return:
>
>* Connector/ODBC 5.0 released as soon as possible, at a quality level
>that makes it usable for all of you that supports prepared statements,
>views and stored procedures.
>
>* Bugs fixed in 3.51 in an order that make sense, and solves the largest
>problems first.
>
>* Much more interaction with the community at large (it's actually a
>quarterly goal for the entire team). Feel free to yell at me if you
>don't see us on this mailing list or the forums enough.
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
>
>
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>=n37u
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



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RE: Status update?

Mark Matthews writes:
> I've also finally been given the go-ahead to hire one more
> developer to work on ODBC in tandem with Peter.

Sounds like good news, congratulations!


> What we could really use from the community is the following:
> (1) Testing of 5.0 releases,

I'll sum up our situation, perhaps you can use it as input
(perhaps not).

The reasons we use Connector/ODBC are:

1) It's been around the longest and should thus be the stablest.

2) A Windows ODBC driver is a relatively small component compared
to a full-fledged DOTNET v2 data provider. Leaving most of the
DOTNET data provider implementation to Microsoft and their
System.Data.Odbc wrapper and instead concentrating on the ODBC
part seemed like the quickest way to achieve a stable connector.

If I had time to fiddle with alpha software I could also play with
Connector/NET. Connector/NET happens to have other things going for it:

a) It's easy to build.

b) Changes are documented in the commit log, so if I find a regression,
I can go look for related changes.

c) Bugfixes are documented in the commit log, so if I want to know when
a particular bug was fixed, I can look it up in the log.

d) Every commit has a log message. If I look at changes for the last
week, I instantly know whether there is something worth testing or
if it's all whitespace fixes, and which areas I should concentrate
my testing on.

Looking objectively at the situation as a DOTNET user of Connector/ODBC,
the primary thing that Connector/ODBC should have going for it is that
the GA release should be free of major bugs. I think you guys have
failed to deliver that, if it was indeed ever a goal for you.

With stability out of the picture, we can get everything else we
need from Connector/NET. With the Connector/NET development process
being friendlier towards users (testers) as described above, it looks
like a better place to spend time alpha testing.

I think that sums up our situation.


> we didn't get a lot of people trying out the first alpha of 5.0,
> so we got basically zero feedback.

Fixing a), b), c) and d) above would be enough incentive
for me personally to give a hand with alpha testing.

Constructive (or so I hope) suggestions for things
that you guys could try to attract testers:

a)
Release often. Don't expect people to come running when you happen to
want something tested, instead try to give users the possibility of
testing when they want. People generally want to help test, if only
it's not too much work. Hand them a release whenever you've fixed
something, by setting up a machine to do a nigthly build. Stuff the
version number that the build machine gets when it runs "svn update/
checkout" into the source code so there's an easy way for people to
report their version number. Make sure that old versions of PDB files
are available so users can easily report problems with symbols resolved.
Make sure that old versions of DLL files are available so users can
perform regression testing without setting up a build environment.

b), c) and d)
Document your changes. It takes 5 minutes to write a good log message,
but it takes one user half an hour to figure out what a change does
without a log message. Multiply that half hour by the number of commits
a day and the number of users that would like to test alpha releases.
Writing good log messages shows your users some courtesy by not wasting
their time.


> I'd like to ask the community what bugs are most painful for them to
> deal with (David I have your list already).

Since you're not on my payroll I don't expect you to pay any attention
to my list of priorities.


> What we promise in return:
....
> * Much more interaction with the community at large (it's actually a
> quarterly goal for the entire team).

A lofty and most welcome goal, but not very concrete..

I'd like to see a promise from you guys to respond to problem reports
within a given timeframe. I realize that support customers should get
much better service than community members, so the interval should be
large - say, a month from a problem is reported to you giving *some*
feedback.

By "feedback", I don't mean "fix". I just mean any status, could be:
- "yeah OK, we'll take a look at that when time permits" or
- "we're probably never going to look into that" or
- "you'll need to do more testing yourself" or
- "please make a more concise problem description" or
- "bug in another component; report instead"... whatever.
Could also be something more uplifting ;-), but that's by
no means a requirement.


> Feel free to yell at me if you
> don't see us on this mailing list or the forums enough.

Okey dokey. See this bug:
http://bugs.mysql.com/5225

Half a year ago, two people asked for a status. Since then, I've
personally asked the lead on the bug for a status - twice.

There's been no communication from you guys whatsoever.
IMHO this would be a fine place to start cleaning up your act ;-).


Lastly, kudos on the way you guys handled fx.:
http://bugs.mysql.com/18755

A timely response and (some) communication regarding
the root cause of the problem. I'm impressed!


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RE: Status update?

I wrote:
> b) Changes are documented in the commit log, so if I find a
> regression, I can go look for related changes.
>
> c) Bugfixes are documented in the commit log, so if I want to know
> when a particular bug was fixed, I can look it up in the log.
>
> d) Every commit has a log message. If I look at changes for the last
> week, I instantly know whether there is something worth testing or
> if it's all whitespace fixes, and which areas I should concentrate
> my testing on.

Regarding b), c) and d) above, in case other community members wonder
what I'm talking about, take a look here (Subversion needed):
svn log -r200:HEAD http://svn.mysql.com/svnpublic/connector-odbc/
versus:
svn log -r200:HEAD http://svn.mysql.com/svnpublic/connector-net/


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