looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Hello
Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
users)

For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has to be
kept, preferably in a mailbox. This should transparent, tamperproof to
the user, so best handled at a server level, not the client level (ie
from outlook)

It should be windows based, preferably a service.
I need pop3-mailbox download and smart host relay capability.
freeware applications with a large userbase are strongly fovered.
freeware for obvious reasons, large userbase in fact also for obvious
reasons :)

best regards
glenn

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:27:39 GMT, Glenn wrote:

>Hello
>Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
>I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
>users)
>
>For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has to be
>kept, preferably in a mailbox. This should transparent, tamperproof to
>the user, so best handled at a server level, not the client level (ie
>from outlook)
>
>It should be windows based, preferably a service.
>I need pop3-mailbox download and smart host relay capability.
>freeware applications with a large userbase are strongly fovered.
>freeware for obvious reasons, large userbase in fact also for obvious
>reasons :)
>
>best regards
>glenn


Hi Glenn

What about the embedded e-mail server?

http://www.shelco-as.com/default.php?6:1:1:1:0

US distributor:

http://www.ees-usa.com/

It does this (through the archiving function included) and lot's more
(spam & virus filtering, webmail, e-mail push to name a few) at very
reasonable price.

It's a box, which only consumes ~100mW of electric power, is fairly
small (3x3c1 inches in size) does not produce noise or heat etc. etc.
Basically this server was developed to be used in the soho market.

You should consider the costs for the electric power also if you
compare this solution with a PC based one. A PC (asuming ~300W) will
easily cost 100 times more per month. Depending on where you are these
costs are significant. I.e. here in Switzerland a PC consumes electric
energy for ~$20 / month whereas the EES consumes 20 CENTS in the same
time frame.

Setup is straight foreward - you configure the domains and users and
you are done.

HTH

Markus

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

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Glenn writes:

> Hello
> Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
> I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
> users)
>
> For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has to be
> kept, preferably in a mailbox. This should transparent, tamperproof to
> the user, so best handled at a server level, not the client level (ie
> from outlook)

All free mail servers can easily do this.

> It should be windows based, preferably a service.

Oops. You've just handcuffed yourself. Your self-imposed limitation just
severely restricted your options.

You'd have many more powerful and flexible options available to you on Linux
or BSD, with many free mail servers that can do that; in some cases as
simple as setting a single option, and every message handled by the mail
server gets archived together with a detailed record of everything that
happened to it, every delivery attempt to every recipient, timestamped, and
a final record noting when the message has been delivered to the recipient's
mail server, and its IP address at the time. All of this saved in ordinary
plain text files.

Too bad.


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Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Glenn wrote:

> Hello
> Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
> I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
> users)
>
> For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has to be
> kept, preferably in a mailbox. This should transparent, tamperproof to
> the user, so best handled at a server level, not the client level (ie
> from outlook)
>
> It should be windows based, preferably a service.
> I need pop3-mailbox download and smart host relay capability.
> freeware applications with a large userbase are strongly fovered.
> freeware for obvious reasons, large userbase in fact also for obvious
> reasons :)
>
> best regards
> glenn
Have a look at www.pmail.com "mercury mail".

It might be configurable to do what you want with the global filter
rules, etc.

AK

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2006-07-10, AK wrote:
> Glenn wrote:
>
>> Hello
>> Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
>> I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
>> users)
>>
>> For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has to be
>> kept, preferably in a mailbox. This should transparent, tamperproof to
>> the user, so best handled at a server level, not the client level (ie
>> from outlook)
>>
>> It should be windows based, preferably a service.
>> I need pop3-mailbox download and smart host relay capability.
>> freeware applications with a large userbase are strongly fovered.
>> freeware for obvious reasons, large userbase in fact also for obvious
>> reasons :)
>>
>> best regards
>> glenn
> Have a look at www.pmail.com "mercury mail".
>
> It might be configurable to do what you want with the global filter
> rules, etc.

It'll have no problem with it at all, I used to run mercury32 v4.01b
untill I had to move to linux


- --
apostle AT peculiar.homeip.net Encrypted email only @ this address
key-id: 0x72A69CD5 or 0x84D46604 Non-encrypted mail deleted unread.
http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/
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Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

G> For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has
G> to be kept, preferably in a mailbox.

QUEUE_EXTRA in qmail.
always_bcc in Postfix.

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

In article <6np4b2hkcsgcrdofnh4cprs2h2ukngdulv@4ax.com>, m.zingg@nct.ch
says...
8<
>
>
> Hi Glenn
>
> What about the embedded e-mail server?
>
> http://www.shelco-as.com/default.php?6:1:1:1:0
>
> US distributor:
>
> http://www.ees-usa.com/
>
> It does this (through the archiving function included) and lot's more
> (spam & virus filtering, webmail, e-mail push to name a few) at very
> reasonable price.
>
I'm not sure this is best suited for me now, but I'll keep it in mind
for another time.

thanks for your reply
glenn

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

In article ,
sam@email-scan.com says...
> Glenn writes:
>
> > Hello
> > Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
> > I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
> > users)
> >
> > For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has to be
> > kept, preferably in a mailbox. This should transparent, tamperproof to
> > the user, so best handled at a server level, not the client level (ie
> > from outlook)
>
> All free mail servers can easily do this.
>
> > It should be windows based, preferably a service.
>
> Oops. You've just handcuffed yourself. Your self-imposed limitation just
> severely restricted your options.

yes, I know. lets leave it at that.
>
> You'd have many more powerful and flexible options available to you on Linux
> or BSD, with many free mail servers that can do that; in some cases as
> simple as setting a single option, and every message handled by the mail
> server gets archived together with a detailed record of everything that
> happened to it, every delivery attempt to every recipient, timestamped, and
> a final record noting when the message has been delivered to the recipient's
> mail server, and its IP address at the time. All of this saved in ordinary
> plain text files.
>
> Too bad.
don't rub it in :)

thanks for replying
glenn

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

In article , aktrader2
@excite.com says...
> Glenn wrote:
>
> Have a look at www.pmail.com "mercury mail".
>
> It might be configurable to do what you want with the global filter
> rules, etc.
>
> AK

I already dl'ed mercury and trying to set it up.
Knowing where/what to look for, was not directly clear, but global
filters will now get a closer check

thanks for replying
glenn

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

In article ,
real.address@in.sig.invalid says...
8<
> >
> > It might be configurable to do what you want with the global filter
> > rules, etc.
>
> It'll have no problem with it at all, I used to run mercury32 v4.01b
> untill I had to move to linux
>
Good to hear it's possible.

best regards
glenn

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

In article ,
J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM says...
> G> For legal and security reasons, a copy of every mail (in &out) has
> G> to be kept, preferably in a mailbox.
>
> QUEUE_EXTRA in qmail.
> always_bcc in Postfix.
>
this sounds suspiciously like linux, which sadly will not be used here.
but good to know the exact words for the desired feature. that will save
some time searching for it the next time.

thanks for your input
glenn

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Sam wrote:
> Glenn writes:
[deleted]

> > It should be windows based, preferably a service.
>
> Oops. You've just handcuffed yourself. Your self-imposed limitation just
> severely restricted your options.
>
> You'd have many more powerful and flexible options available to you on Linux
> or BSD, with many free mail servers that can do that;

(More or less) Urban legend. The point isn't so much whether the user
has a UNIX/Linux *system*, but if he (also) has UNIX/Linux *expertise/
experience*.

Quite a lot of popular UNIX/Linux software, also email software, is
available for use on Cygwin [1] on (MS-)Windows. For the case at
hand for example exim (i.e. a perfectly suitable MTA), procmail, ssmtp,
etc.. For details, see the Cygwin Package List [2]. (Note that if
something is not on that list, it doesn't mean that it can't be used on
Cygwin. It just means that it's not available from the Cygwin site.)

[deleted]

> Too bad.

Indeed. Too bad that we still get these senseless "My OS is better
that yours!" (non-)arguments.

[1]

[2]

--
Frank "13 families of OSs and counting." Slootweg

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Glenn wrote:
> Hello
> Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
> I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
> users)

[requirements deleted]

See my other response (to Sam's response) for a Cygwin-on-Windows
based approach.

Seeing that your looking for a very small number of users, you may
want to have a look at the (native Windows) Hamster [1] email(/News)
server.

FYI, I'm using Hamster with, heaven forbid :-), UNIX/Linux software on
(Cygwin on) Windows, but use only the News server part, not the email
server part.

[1]

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

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Frank Slootweg writes:

> Sam wrote:
>> Glenn writes:
> [deleted]
>
>> > It should be windows based, preferably a service.
>>
>> Oops. You've just handcuffed yourself. Your self-imposed limitation just
>> severely restricted your options.
>>
>> You'd have many more powerful and flexible options available to you on Linux
>> or BSD, with many free mail servers that can do that;
>
> (More or less) Urban legend.

Really?

Feel free to make a list of mainstream free mail servers available under
Windows. Then we'll see if I can come up with a longer list.


> The point isn't so much whether the user
> has a UNIX/Linux *system*, but if he (also) has UNIX/Linux *expertise/
> experience*.
>
> Quite a lot of popular UNIX/Linux software, also email software, is
> available for use on Cygwin [1] on (MS-)Windows. For the case at
> hand for example exim (i.e. a perfectly suitable MTA), procmail, ssmtp,
> etc.. For details, see the Cygwin Package List [2].

Cygwin is nothing more than a tool to fit a square peg into a round hole. I
never heard of anyone seriously using Cygwin in anything other than
experimental, or non-critical operating more.



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Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Sam wrote:
> Frank Slootweg writes:
>
> > Sam wrote:
> >> Glenn writes:
> > [deleted]
> >
> >> > It should be windows based, preferably a service.
> >>
> >> Oops. You've just handcuffed yourself. Your self-imposed
> >> limitation just severely restricted your options.
> >>
> >> You'd have many more powerful and flexible options available to you
> >> on Linux or BSD, with many free mail servers that can do that;
> >
> > (More or less) Urban legend.
>
> Really?
>
> Feel free to make a list of mainstream free mail servers available under
> Windows. Then we'll see if I can come up with a longer list.

A longer list wasn't your argument and wasn't/isn't mine.

The example I gave is an example of a mainstream free mail server
which is more than suitable for the requirements at hand.

> > The point isn't so much whether the
> > user has a UNIX/Linux *system*, but if he (also) has UNIX/Linux
> > *expertise/ experience*.
> >
> > Quite a lot of popular UNIX/Linux software, also email software,
> > is available for use on Cygwin [1] on (MS-)Windows. For the case at
> > hand for example exim (i.e. a perfectly suitable MTA), procmail,
> > ssmtp, etc.. For details, see the Cygwin Package List [2].
>
> Cygwin is nothing more than a tool to fit a square peg into a round
> hole.

Belittlement, the 'weapon' of the zealot! :-(

As a UNIX support_person/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can
assure you that Cygwin is *very* well done.

> I never heard of anyone seriously using Cygwin in anything other than
> experimental, or non-critical operating more.

"experimental" is (IMO) a non-argument, but "non-critical" probably is
fair enough (and you did say "or"), considering the underlying OS [1].
What makes you think that we're talking critical here?

As always, the point is not which OS is 'better', but which OS serves
the *majority* of the users needs best, and if that OS can accomodate
some non-native software for which there is no good native alternative.

So if Windows serves the majority of the OP's needs best, there is no
reason to 'force' UNIX/Linux on him.

[1] Now *my* bias is talking! :-)

--
Frank "Mr. Five Nines." Slootweg

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

* Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Glenn wrote:
>> Hello
>> Let me explain the somewhat cryptic subject:
>> I'm looking for a mail server to be used in a small business. (now 3
>> users)

> [requirements deleted]

> See my other response (to Sam's response) for a Cygwin-on-Windows
> based approach.

> Seeing that your looking for a very small number of users, you may
> want to have a look at the (native Windows) Hamster [1] email(/News)
> server.

> FYI, I'm using Hamster with, heaven forbid :-), UNIX/Linux software on
> (Cygwin on) Windows, but use only the News server part, not the email
> server part.

> [1]

Link is broken here. This worked:

http://www.arcorhome.de/newshamster/tgl/misc/hamster_en.html

--
Troy Piggins : "Join the Army, meet interesting people, kill them."
,-o
o ) Ubuntu linux 6.06 http://ubuntu.com RLU#415538 http://counter.li.org
`-o uptime: 23:52:10 up 19 days,2:33,2 users,load average:0.03,0.03,0.00

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

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Frank Slootweg writes:

> As a UNIX support_person/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can
> assure you that Cygwin is *very* well done.

As a UNIX developer/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can assure you
that few people consider Cygwin anything more than an amusing toy.

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with Cygnus, but nobody in their
right mind would use it for anything resembling a mission-critical system.

> So if Windows serves the majority of the OP's needs best, there is no
> reason to 'force' UNIX/Linux on him.
>
> [1] Now *my* bias is talking! :-)

So they should stick with Windows, instead of some bastardized mutation of
Unix and Windows.

And don't complain that they don't have much free software available for
use.



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Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Troy Piggins wrote:
> * Frank Slootweg wrote:
[deleted]

> > [1]
>
> Link is broken here. This worked:
>
> http://www.arcorhome.de/newshamster/tgl/misc/hamster_en.html

Thanks, Troy! I often post this link and didn't know it was broken/
changed.

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Sam wrote:
> Frank Slootweg writes:
>
> > As a UNIX support_person/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can
> > assure you that Cygwin is *very* well done.
>
> As a UNIX developer/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can
> assure you that few people consider Cygwin anything more than an
> amusing toy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. In turn, I consider Linux
an amusing toy. Doesn't mean a thing either.

> Not that there's anything inherently wrong with Cygnus, but nobody in
> their right mind would use it for anything resembling a mission-
> critical system.

As I said: Five nines, no. Three nines, no probs.

> > So if Windows serves the majority of the OP's needs best, there is
> > no reason to 'force' UNIX/Linux on him.
>
> So they should stick with Windows, instead of some bastardized
> mutation of Unix and Windows.

Is your opinion. (Many) Others happen to think otherwise.

> And don't complain that they don't have much free software available
> for use.

The kind of free software which *you* consider important, i.e. not by
number (by any stretch of the imagination).

We should probably end this. Most has been said, we probably won't find
any more common ground and I dislike silent snipping and non-response.

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> As a UNIX support_person/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can
> assure you that Cygwin is *very* well done.

It is, but nonetheless Cygwin is properly seen as a compatibility package
that allows (most) UNIX software to (mostly) work under Windows.

The keywords are the "most" and "mostly".

For example, Cygwin implements fcntl() locking (which is advisory on UNIX)
as Windows LockFileEx() mandatory locking. This mostly works anyway, but
not if the application depends upon advisory locking or if the application
uses the misfeatures of fcntl() locking (I call 'em bugs; the BSD man
pages calls 'em "completely stupid semantics").

Cygwin does a clever mapping of the filesystem from Windows to UNIX, but
there are still some significant differences which Cygwin can't gloss
over.

Last but not least, neither the vendors of UNIX nor the vendor of Windows
have much of an interest in Cygwin. It isn't like some compatibility
packages, in which a vendor is trying to move its customers from its
earlier proprietary operating system to its newer operating system (e.g.,
Microsoft's support of 16-bit DOS and Windows applications on modern
NT-based Windows XP) or encourage the development of modern applications
by making it possible to run them on older systems (e.g., Microsoft's
Win32s which allowed running some 32-bit Windows applications on 16-bit
Windows).

Cygwin is an impressive effort, but it is not as easy as "just load
Cygwin, and now you can fully run all UNIX software under Windows."

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Re: looking for mail-server able to duplicate mail

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > As a UNIX support_person/admin/user of (well) over two decades, I can
> > assure you that Cygwin is *very* well done.
>
> It is, but nonetheless Cygwin is properly seen as a compatibility package
> that allows (most) UNIX software to (mostly) work under Windows.
>
> The keywords are the "most" and "mostly".

[some details deleted]

> Last but not least, neither the vendors of UNIX nor the vendor of Windows
> have much of an interest in Cygwin. It isn't like some compatibility
> packages, in which a vendor is trying to move its customers from its
> earlier proprietary operating system to its newer operating system (e.g.,
> Microsoft's support of 16-bit DOS and Windows applications on modern
> NT-based Windows XP) or encourage the development of modern applications
> by making it possible to run them on older systems (e.g., Microsoft's
> Win32s which allowed running some 32-bit Windows applications on 16-bit
> Windows).
>
> Cygwin is an impressive effort, but it is not as easy as "just load
> Cygwin, and now you can fully run all UNIX software under Windows."

Thanks for that excellent posting/summary, Mark! And for the record: I
fully agree.