It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
"piloted"
the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.

So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
not unlike the Miami-group scare.

Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.

Watch this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> "piloted"
> the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or
> planes; thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
>
> So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
> not unlike the Miami-group scare.
>
> Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
>
> Watch this:
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Part of this strategy included the maintenance of a state of continual
warfare, which Goldstein discussed in the third chapter. The three major
powers were not fighting this perpetual war for victory, they were fighting
to keep a state of emergency always present as the surest guarantee of
authoritarianism.

Orwell, 1984


To quote Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials:

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all,
it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or
no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country.
Les


--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply direct.

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/hxflyers/

http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/

http://www.xenu.net/

http://www.venganza.org/index.htm

Les Hemmings a.a #2251 SA

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> "piloted"
> the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> we saw was using autopilot technology.

Which all of those planes had.

> Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> collapsed because of an explosive called thermate,

No, because of gravity.

> not fires or planes;
> thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.

No, it didn't. The buildings left some chemicals, which could
have come from multiple sources.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In article <1155227364.955607.187030@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Regensburg" smoked some dope, sniffed a chemtrail,
wet the bed, howled at the moon and scribbled:

> If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> "piloted"
> the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
> thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
>
> So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
> not unlike the Miami-group scare.
>
> Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.

The fact is, a 9-year-old child could have flown the planes into the
buildings; thermate doesn't exist; there was no "chemical trail"; the
planes caused major structural damage, finished off by the raging fires
where the planes hit.

It is ignoramusus like "Regensburg," who have no knowledge of aviation,
structures or anything else useful, who fuel the idiotic conspiracy
notions, such as "chemtrails", lunar landing hoaxes, "9/11
conspiracies", etc., ad nauseum, who are the real threat to freedom.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

The same bunch was involved in Dale Earnhardtes death....

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

I think he/she meant Thermite.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article <1155227364.955607.187030@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Regensburg" smoked some dope, sniffed a chemtrail,
> wet the bed, howled at the moon and scribbled:
>
> > If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> > that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> > "piloted"
> > the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> > way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> > we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> > collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
> > thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
> >
> > So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
> > not unlike the Miami-group scare.
> >
> > Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
>
> The fact is, a 9-year-old child could have flown the planes into the
> buildings; thermate doesn't exist; there was no "chemical trail"; the
> planes caused major structural damage, finished off by the raging fires
> where the planes hit.
>
> It is ignoramusus like "Regensburg," who have no knowledge of aviation,
> structures or anything else useful, who fuel the idiotic conspiracy
> notions, such as "chemtrails", lunar landing hoaxes, "9/11
> conspiracies", etc., ad nauseum, who are the real threat to freedom.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

blackbrandon@gmail.com wrote:
> I think he/she meant Thermite.
>

No, the Jonesists are saying "Thermate",

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermate


Apparently the use of Thermate has left evidence the size of a penny,
that must be handled with plastic gloves, although there is no issue
with setting it directly on a conference table while handling it, and
it is apparently safe to simply carry it in your pocket.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

So, a group of people have actually been taken into custody,
actually in possession of liquid explosives? Or is something else the case?

Here's product info I'm getting from my pyromaniac, ex-military engineer
colleague:

http://www.mrel.com/FIXOR.html

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Les Hemmings wrote:

> Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
> England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all,
> it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a
> simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a
> fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or
> no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
> That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked,
> and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
> to danger. It works the same in any country.
> Les

"Bush said during a visit to Green Bay, Wis., that the foiled plot was
a "stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists.""

Funny how Bush failed to remind us that
he himself is a fascist or that his behavior
is very similar to that of a dictator. And
then there was grandpa Prescott Bush,
who helped the Nazis come to power.

Pot kettle black, Mr Bush.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> "piloted"
> the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
> thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
>
> So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
> not unlike the Miami-group scare.
>
> Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
>
> Watch this:
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Keep the laffs coming Sweetwater.

--

<^}})<
/\/\

See why we must wage war on terror and against whom we must wage it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6162397493278181614& q=Obsession%3A+What+The+War+on+Terror+Is+Really+About&hl=en

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fester wrote:
> Regensburg wrote:

> > Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
> >
> > Watch this:
> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

> See why we must wage war on terror and against whom we must wage it:

Are you speaking of the totalitarian terrorist Bush?

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

jmcgill wrote:
> blackbrandon@gmail.com wrote:
> > I think he/she meant Thermite.
> >
>
> No, the Jonesists are saying "Thermate",
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermate
>
> Apparently the use of Thermate has left evidence the size of a penny,

No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
molten iron under each building. For those of you
who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
which doesn't matter anyway because the molten iron
lacked elements found in the structural steel used
in the buildings. It did have elements markers indicating
it was from thermite.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:

> No, it didn't. The buildings left some chemicals, which could
> have come from multiple sources.

Incorrect. That possibility has been accounted for. Watch the video.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:

> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
> molten iron under each building. For those of you
> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel

I have personally melted steel enough to work it, in a forge made from a
coffee can and fueled with propane. I have made steel red hot with only
a hammer, and have welded this way. Any blacksmith, any ironworker,
will tell you there is a problem with your basic assumption.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In article <1155281970.896141.245940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
z444y@yahoo.com says...

> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
> molten iron under each building. For those of you
> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,

Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.

It's hard to give much credit to conspiracy theories that reject such
basic facts. Perhaps the people who cooked them up simply have no real-
world experience with melting metal?

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam

Braze your own bicycle frames. See

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:57:35 -0700, Joshua Putnam
wrote:

>In article <1155281970.896141.245940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>z444y@yahoo.com says...
>
>> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
>> molten iron under each building. For those of you
>> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
>> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
>
>Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
>With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
>draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>
>It's hard to give much credit to conspiracy theories that reject such
>basic facts. Perhaps the people who cooked them up simply have no real-
>world experience with melting metal?

People managed to melt metals with wood or coal fires for centuries
before modern technology came along. Perhaps the conspiracy geeks
aren't aware of that.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> jmcgill wrote:
> > blackbrandon@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I think he/she meant Thermite.
> > >
> >
> > No, the Jonesists are saying "Thermate",
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermate
> >
> > Apparently the use of Thermate has left evidence the size of a penny,
>
> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
> molten iron under each building. For those of you
> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
> which doesn't matter anyway because the molten iron
> lacked elements found in the structural steel used
> in the buildings. It did have elements markers indicating
> it was from thermite.

I haven't seen anyone provide any proof that a) there were pools of
ANYTHING underneath the WTC. b) that said pools were iron or c) that
said pools (if they existed) were molten for any length of time. The
only evidence someone posted here once was a video of a fireman
complaining that it was "red hot" in the rubble of the Towers. I
mentioned that most fire sites remain hot for weeks after the event and
that the fireman in the video makes no mention of pools, molten or
otherwise.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

John Baker wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:57:35 -0700, Joshua Putnam
> wrote:
>
> >In article <1155281970.896141.245940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >z444y@yahoo.com says...
> >
> >> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
> >> molten iron under each building. For those of you
> >> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
> >> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
> >
> >Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
> >With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
> >draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
> >
> >It's hard to give much credit to conspiracy theories that reject such
> >basic facts. Perhaps the people who cooked them up simply have no real-
> >world experience with melting metal?
>
> People managed to melt metals with wood or coal fires for centuries
> before modern technology came along. Perhaps the conspiracy geeks
> aren't aware of that.

You could fill volumes with the things conspiracy geeks aren't aware
of! :)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Joshua Putnam wrote:

> Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
> With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
> draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.

By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

edrhodes@hotmail.com wrote:

> I haven't seen anyone provide any proof that a) there were pools of
> ANYTHING underneath the WTC.

Did you both to look anywhere?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

edrhodes@hotmail.com wrote:

> You could fill volumes with the things conspiracy geeks aren't aware
> of! :)

Watch this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
> > Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
> > With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
> > draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>
> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.

What part of 'With a good draft' don't you understand?

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article <1155227364.955607.187030@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Regensburg" smoked some dope, sniffed a chemtrail,
> wet the bed, howled at the moon and scribbled:
>
> > If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> > that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> > "piloted"
> > the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> > way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> > we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> > collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
> > thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
> >
> > So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
> > not unlike the Miami-group scare.
> >
> > Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
>
> The fact is, a 9-year-old child could have flown the planes into the
> buildings; thermate doesn't exist; there was no "chemical trail"; the
> planes caused major structural damage, finished off by the raging fires
> where the planes hit.
>
> It is ignoramusus like "Regensburg," who have no knowledge of aviation,
> structures or anything else useful, who fuel the idiotic conspiracy
> notions, such as "chemtrails", lunar landing hoaxes, "9/11
> conspiracies", etc., ad nauseum, who are the real threat to freedom.

What nonsense. The only threat to freedom is the government. Period.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> Les Hemmings wrote:
>
> > Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
> > England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all,
> > it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a
> > simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a
> > fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or
> > no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
> > That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked,
> > and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
> > to danger. It works the same in any country.
> > Les
>
> "Bush said during a visit to Green Bay, Wis., that the foiled plot was
> a "stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists.""
>
> Funny how Bush failed to remind us that
> he himself is a fascist or that his behavior
> is very similar to that of a dictator.

And how many politicians (of any country) are going to be honest? It's
not like you can get the humps to vote for you if you told the truth
and said "Vote for me so I can screw you."

The US government is at war alright. It's at war with American
citizens.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg writes:

> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.

Perhaps you missed the words "with a good draft."

In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
using only fuels such as wood.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news:05mod29r5cli1879g8kapc98c516f5glua@4ax.com...
> Regensburg writes:
>
>> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.
>
> Perhaps you missed the words "with a good draft."
>
> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
> using only fuels such as wood.
>

You need a forced draught to melt iron, a natural draught
is not enough. In times gone by this was achieved with
a set of bellows, these days its down with a mechanicaly
operated blower. There's a reason we refer to the iron
smelters as Blast Furnaces

You dont use wood either, it includes too many impurities,
traditionally charcoal was used until displaced by coke.

Keith



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Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Regensburg" wrote in message
news:1155288737.510794.155580@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com.. .
>
> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
>> Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
>> With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
>> draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>
> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.
>

You've all missed the point

You dont have to melt steel to bring down a building. Steel loses
its strength LONG before it melts. At 600 C most steels have only
half the strength they possess at room temperature. At 800 C
they have no load bearing capability at all.

Keith



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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Keith W wrote:

>
> "Mxsmanic" wrote in message
> news:05mod29r5cli1879g8kapc98c516f5glua@4ax.com...
>> Regensburg writes:
>>
>>> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.
>>
>> Perhaps you missed the words "with a good draft."
>>
>> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
>> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
>> using only fuels such as wood.
>>
>
> You need a forced draught to melt iron, a natural draught
> is not enough. In times gone by this was achieved with
> a set of bellows, these days its down with a mechanicaly
> operated blower. There's a reason we refer to the iron
> smelters as Blast Furnaces

With that height, you'd get more of a draught (wish you Yaks could spell)
than anything forced!

> You dont use wood either, it includes too many impurities,
> traditionally charcoal was used until displaced by coke.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy
> via Encryption =----

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
>> Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
>> With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
>> draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>
> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.

Wood stoves are designed to keep the draft to a minimum, so your wood
lasts long enough to cook, or get to sleep.

Clearly, you have never seen a smith work on a homemade forge.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> edrhodes@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen anyone provide any proof that a) there were pools of
>> ANYTHING underneath the WTC.
>
> Did you both to look anywhere?
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586
>

It's simply perfect that you trotted out Jones again.

We've heard what Jones thinks. You need something else. Something
compelling, and preferably, independent from Jones and the ST911 bunch.

It is a mistake to assume that everyone who disagrees with you, has not
given an ear to Jones. Not everyone who looks into Jones winds up a
Jonesist, and the Jonesists would do well to come up with some
persuasive argument to make their case to these people.

What usually happens is the person who is not persuaded gets insulted,
or else simply gets a reference back to Jones and ST911.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On 11 Aug 2006 03:00:48 -0700, "Chris Hayes"
wrote:

>
>Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>> In article <1155227364.955607.187030@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Regensburg" smoked some dope, sniffed a chemtrail,
>> wet the bed, howled at the moon and scribbled:
>>
>> > If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
>> > that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
>> > "piloted"
>> > the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
>> > way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
>> > we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
>> > collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
>> > thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
>> >
>> > So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
>> > not unlike the Miami-group scare.
>> >
>> > Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
>>
>> The fact is, a 9-year-old child could have flown the planes into the
>> buildings; thermate doesn't exist; there was no "chemical trail"; the
>> planes caused major structural damage, finished off by the raging fires
>> where the planes hit.
>>
>> It is ignoramusus like "Regensburg," who have no knowledge of aviation,
>> structures or anything else useful, who fuel the idiotic conspiracy
>> notions, such as "chemtrails", lunar landing hoaxes, "9/11
>> conspiracies", etc., ad nauseum, who are the real threat to freedom.
>
>What nonsense. The only threat to freedom is the government. Period.

The only threat to the government is peace.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Regensburg" wrote in news:1155313972.437043.321630
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

>
> Chris Hayes wrote:
>
>> The US government is at war alright. It's at war with American
>> citizens.
>
> Yeah, but it used to be petty stuff, like the guy who got
> $1 million from Comcast wrote a law that lets Comcast
> get a $1 billion tax credit (link www.ctj.org/corpfed04an.pdf ).
>
> The whole tenor of it has changed. Now it's about
> setting up a police state.
>
> Do you realize the US military has set up 800 concentration
> camps that can hold about 18 million people?
>
> No wonder American cops are arresting people en masse at
> demonstrations. They want to know who they're gonna
> put in the gas chambers.
>

Why, last I heard they were arresting people who posted messages like that
on USENET.

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Truth is the first casualty in war - but it shouldn't be the news media
who kill it."

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In article <1155288737.510794.155580@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
z444y@yahoo.com says...
>
> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
> > Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
> > With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
> > draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>
> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.

Put a good draft in one and it will, been there, done that, melted the
back out of a potbelly stove while boosting the draft with a blower.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam

Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

> >What nonsense. The only threat to freedom is the government. Period.
>
> The only threat to the government is peace.

The only threat to peace is freedom. No, wait...

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Joshua Putnam writes:

> Put a good draft in one and it will, been there, done that, melted the
> back out of a potbelly stove while boosting the draft with a blower.

Are you one of those people who pours liquid oxygen on an outdoor
grill?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Joshua Putnam wrote:

> Put a good draft in one and it will, been there, done that, melted the
> back out of a potbelly stove while boosting the draft with a blower.

Sounds like a hillbilly's tall tale to me.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Joshua Putnam wrote in
news:MPG.1f464a70b478b605989727@news.zhonka.net:

> In article <1155288737.510794.155580@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> z444y@yahoo.com says...
>>
>> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>>
>> > Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt
>> > steel. With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel.
>> > With a good draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>>
>> By your logic, wood stoves would be melting everywhere.
>
> Put a good draft in one and it will, been there, done that, melted the
> back out of a potbelly stove while boosting the draft with a blower.
>

A couple of lumps of coal will do nicely too!

--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid
are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
-- Bertrand Russell

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote:

> The US government is at war alright. It's at war with American
> citizens.

Yeah, but it used to be petty stuff, like the guy who got
$1 million from Comcast wrote a law that lets Comcast
get a $1 billion tax credit (link www.ctj.org/corpfed04an.pdf ).

The whole tenor of it has changed. Now it's about
setting up a police state.

Do you realize the US military has set up 800 concentration
camps that can hold about 18 million people?

No wonder American cops are arresting people en masse at
demonstrations. They want to know who they're gonna
put in the gas chambers.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Mxsmanic wrote:

> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
> using only fuels such as wood.

Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,
and certainly not in WTC 7 which no plane ever hit.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
>> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
>> using only fuels such as wood.
>
> Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
> which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,

You make it sound as if the fire was somebody burning trash in a
wastebasket or something. Also, you seem to be trying to make the
case for some other cause besides crash damage and fires from jet fuel
and other fuels, but you show no real evidence for other causes, and
choose to attack the idea of the commonly accepted cause.

> and certainly not in WTC 7 which no plane ever hit.

No plane hit the building, but it certainly had more debris fall on it
than any other building in history.

How many buildings were destroyed on 9/11? Just 3? Or more than 3?

What was the nature and extent of damage to other buildings that were
also not hit by airplanes? Was the damage severe, or was it superficial?

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg writes:

> Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
> which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,
> and certainly not in WTC 7 which no plane ever hit.

I suppose that's why those buildings were not used to refine iron ore.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

John Baker wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:57:35 -0700, Joshua Putnam
>wrote:
>>In article <1155281970.896141.245940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>>z444y@yahoo.com says...
>>> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
>>> molten iron under each building. For those of you
>>> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
>>> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
>>Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
>>With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
>>draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>>It's hard to give much credit to conspiracy theories that reject such
>>basic facts. Perhaps the people who cooked them up simply have no real-
>>world experience with melting metal?
>People managed to melt metals with wood or coal fires for centuries
>before modern technology came along. Perhaps the conspiracy geeks
>aren't aware of that.

Irony: The word "horsepucky" used above. People used dried dung to
fire forges to melt metals as well and many still do.

---
Scientific research into the Theofascist Republican:
http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/CASMSC.pdf
---
"Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. National Vanguard a.k.a.
"Stormfront," a typical member: http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/sosmm.jpg

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Personally I find it comforting to know that a couple of wack jobs on the
internet, without the benefit of any actual knowledge or facts, have, in the
space of less than 24 hours, already determined that the whole thing was a
hoax.

I'll feel better when my two kids fly home from the UK in a couple of weeks
just knowing that the internet loon squad is already on the case...

You conspiracy theorists should run for office...

John E.

"Fredric L. Rice" wrote in message
news:12dqd34emn7hm76@corp.supernews.com...
> John Baker wrote:
> >On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:57:35 -0700, Joshua Putnam
> >wrote:
> >>In article <1155281970.896141.245940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >>z444y@yahoo.com says...
> >>> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
> >>> molten iron under each building. For those of you
> >>> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
> >>> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
> >>Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
> >>With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
> >>draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
> >>It's hard to give much credit to conspiracy theories that reject such
> >>basic facts. Perhaps the people who cooked them up simply have no real-
> >>world experience with melting metal?
> >People managed to melt metals with wood or coal fires for centuries
> >before modern technology came along. Perhaps the conspiracy geeks
> >aren't aware of that.
>
> Irony: The word "horsepucky" used above. People used dried dung to
> fire forges to melt metals as well and many still do.
>
> ---
> Scientific research into the Theofascist Republican:
> http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/CASMSC.pdf
> ---
> "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. National Vanguard a.k.a.
> "Stormfront," a typical member: http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/sosmm.jpg
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

jmcgill wrote:
> Regensburg wrote:
> > edrhodes@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I haven't seen anyone provide any proof that a) there were pools of
> >> ANYTHING underneath the WTC.
> >
> > Did you both to look anywhere?
> >
> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

OK, once again they're commenting that it's hot. (Supposedly "red
hot.") Nobody's saying anything in that clip about "molten pools."
Furthermore, I'd mentioned that I've seen several fires. They always
have to look for "hot spots" in the rubble for days (or even weeks)
afterwards. With the shear bulk of the Towers, you'd have to expect
even greater hot pockets. That's certainly NOT an indication of
explosives or thermite (thermAte?)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg a =E9crit :

> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>
> > No, it didn't. The buildings left some chemicals, which could
> > have come from multiple sources.
>
> Incorrect. That possibility has been accounted for. Watch the video.

The Conspirational worldview is flawed because it assumes agency is
limited to a small number of bad apples at the highest levels of
government. It is an inherently reactionary and conservative worldview,
because it assumes that our institutions would be forces for good if
they just weren't being subverted to the will of a small cabal. Hunt
the cabal, put in 'good leaders' and all will be well and dandy? I
don't think so. It is not the Man that is causing harm, it's the
Position.

In reality, the problem is a structural one. There is no small cabal,
there is only a number of social classes who pursue their own selfish
interest. The problem is not the Rothschild and the Bildenbergers. It's
Statist Capitalism as a whole, as a system of organization. The only
solution is social revolution.

---
Anarchy and Peace
No Gods. No Masters.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"DarkAngel" writes:


>Regensburg a =E9crit :

>> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>>
>> > No, it didn't. The buildings left some chemicals, which could
>> > have come from multiple sources.
>>
>> Incorrect. That possibility has been accounted for. Watch the video.

>The Conspirational worldview is flawed because it assumes agency is
>limited to a small number of bad apples at the highest levels of
>government. It is an inherently reactionary and conservative worldview,
>because it assumes that our institutions would be forces for good if
>they just weren't being subverted to the will of a small cabal. Hunt
>the cabal, put in 'good leaders' and all will be well and dandy? I
>don't think so. It is not the Man that is causing harm, it's the
>Position.

>In reality, the problem is a structural one. There is no small cabal,
>there is only a number of social classes who pursue their own selfish
>interest. The problem is not the Rothschild and the Bildenbergers. It's
>Statist Capitalism as a whole, as a system of organization. The only
>solution is social revolution.

Never ascribe to malice what could equally be ascribed to incompetence.

And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
Usually they get replaced by even more incompetent people,

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In article <1155314219.666799.150820@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
z444y@yahoo.com says...
>
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> > In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
> > be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
> > using only fuels such as wood.
>
> Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
> which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,

So all the smoke and flames visible days later were big theatrical
effects, and the firefighters were just pretending to suffer from smoke
inhalation?

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam

Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"jmcgill" wrote in message
news:Fw2Dg.456$cw.455@fed1read03...

> How many buildings were destroyed on 9/11? Just 3? Or more than 3?
>
> What was the nature and extent of damage to other buildings that were
> also not hit by airplanes? Was the damage severe, or was it superficial?


it was more than 3; mine was ... on 90 West Street ... severe fire damage
.... we never went back in there again ...

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"John Emmons" wrote:

>Personally I find it comforting to know that a couple of wack jobs on the
>internet, without the benefit of any actual knowledge or facts, have, in the
>space of less than 24 hours, already determined that the whole thing was a
>hoax.

Welcome to what "the preponderance of evidence" means, John. When you
have a regime that has an extensive and well documented history of lying
to the public and of committing crimes against humanity and treason, it
is reasonable to proclaim any further claims the regime makes as "just
more of the same."

Remember this fascist regime's claims about the fake "terrorists" in
Florida?

Right. Debunked. Again.

>I'll feel better when my two kids fly home from the UK in a couple of weeks
>just knowing that the internet loon squad is already on the case...

>You conspiracy theorists should run for office...

>John E.

>"Fredric L. Rice" wrote in message
>news:12dqd34emn7hm76@corp.supernews.com...
>> John Baker wrote:
>> >On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:57:35 -0700, Joshua Putnam
>> >wrote:
>> >>In article <1155281970.896141.245940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> >>z444y@yahoo.com says...
>> >>> No actually, the evidence consisted of huge pools of
>> >>> molten iron under each building. For those of you
>> >>> who are unfamiliar with science concept, jet fuel
>> >>> and office furniture do not burn hot enough to melt steel,
>> >>Horsepucky. With a good draft, wood burns hot enough to melt steel.
>> >>With a good draft, kerosene burns hot enough to melt steel. With a good
>> >>draft, paper burns hot enough to melt steel.
>> >>It's hard to give much credit to conspiracy theories that reject such
>> >>basic facts. Perhaps the people who cooked them up simply have no real-
>> >>world experience with melting metal?
>> >People managed to melt metals with wood or coal fires for centuries
>> >before modern technology came along. Perhaps the conspiracy geeks
>> >aren't aware of that.
>>
>> Irony: The word "horsepucky" used above. People used dried dung to
>> fire forges to melt metals as well and many still do.
>>
>> ---
>> Scientific research into the Theofascist Republican:
>> http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/CASMSC.pdf
>> ---
>> "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. National Vanguard a.k.a.
>> "Stormfront," a typical member: http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/sosmm.jpg
>>



---
Scientific research into the Theofascist Republican:
http://www.elmerfudd.us/temp/CASMSC.pdf

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2006 03:00:48 -0700, "Chris Hayes"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> >> In article <1155227364.955607.187030@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >> "Regensburg" smoked some dope, sniffed a chemtrail,
> >> wet the bed, howled at the moon and scribbled:
> >>
> >> > If you study the FACTS about the 9/11 terror attacks it's clear
> >> > that Bush's family was involved, that the so-called muslims who
> >> > "piloted"
> >> > the planes were drug-addled gambling libertines, and that the only
> >> > way to get those planes to their targets with the kind of accuracy
> >> > we saw was using autopilot technology. Oh, and the 3 WTC buildings
> >> > collapsed because of an explosive called thermate, not fires or planes;
> >> > thermate left a precise chemical signature at all 3 sites.
> >> >
> >> > So today's "big scare" is more than likely manufactured,
> >> > not unlike the Miami-group scare.
> >> >
> >> > Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
> >>
> >> The fact is, a 9-year-old child could have flown the planes into the
> >> buildings; thermate doesn't exist; there was no "chemical trail"; the
> >> planes caused major structural damage, finished off by the raging fires
> >> where the planes hit.
> >>
> >> It is ignoramusus like "Regensburg," who have no knowledge of aviation,
> >> structures or anything else useful, who fuel the idiotic conspiracy
> >> notions, such as "chemtrails", lunar landing hoaxes, "9/11
> >> conspiracies", etc., ad nauseum, who are the real threat to freedom.
> >
> >What nonsense. The only threat to freedom is the government. Period.
>
> The only threat to the government is peace.

Indeed, it was Randolph Bourne who pointed that out in "War is the
Health of the State."

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> Chris Hayes wrote:
>
> > The US government is at war alright. It's at war with American
> > citizens.
>
> Yeah, but it used to be petty stuff, like the guy who got
> $1 million from Comcast wrote a law that lets Comcast
> get a $1 billion tax credit (link www.ctj.org/corpfed04an.pdf ).
>
> The whole tenor of it has changed. Now it's about
> setting up a police state.
>
> Do you realize the US military has set up 800 concentration
> camps that can hold about 18 million people?
>

Yes, it's a contingency plan that was put in place by Ronald Raygun.

The US not only has the highest prison population on the planet., it
also imprisons a larger percentage of their citizens than any other
country on earth (maybe North Korea has the US beat on this).

> No wonder American cops are arresting people en masse at
> demonstrations. They want to know who they're gonna
> put in the gas chambers.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote:

> The US not only has the highest prison population on the planet., it
> also imprisons a larger percentage of their citizens than any other
> country on earth

For which countries do you have accurate data concerning prison
population? How can you be certain this information is reported
honestly or accurately to you? How can you even be certain that the
countries in question even know themselves how many people are in prison?

Countries that apply the death penalty more liberally than the US, might
tend to have a lower prison population. Think about that for a moment.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

jmcgill wrote:
> Chris Hayes wrote:
>
> > The US not only has the highest prison population on the planet., it
> > also imprisons a larger percentage of their citizens than any other
> > country on earth
>
> For which countries do you have accurate data concerning prison
> population? How can you be certain this information is reported
> honestly or accurately to you? How can you even be certain that the
> countries in question even know themselves how many people are in prison?
>

http://www.rense.com/general40/jaill.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/2925973.stm
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/06/world-prison-p opulation-tops-9-million.php
http://www.csdp.org/research/r234.pdf
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/us_prison_population_worlds _highest_up_again.php
http://www.nicic.org/Library/020631

You can dance around the issue any way you wish to, but the FACT
remains that the US has a higher incarceration rate than any other
nation on the planet.

> Countries that apply the death penalty more liberally than the US, might
> tend to have a lower prison population. Think about that for a moment.

Try again. Many countries don't even have the death penalty, whereas
the US does. Come and produce something that proves whatever point you
were trying to make. So far it only looks like you're blowing smoke
out of your ass and wasting people's time.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> oconnell@slr.orl.lmco.com wrote:
>
> > No, it didn't. The buildings left some chemicals, which could
> > have come from multiple sources.
>
> Incorrect. That possibility has been accounted for. Watch the video.

Why do folks always assume they are the only ones who have
read the book/watched the video/conducted the calculations/etc?

I have. His work is full of bad materials engineering. He is way out
of his field and when one does that, they are often likely to make
very stupid errors.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Unruh wrote:
> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?

No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
political power, but to eradicate political power.

---
No Gods. No Masters.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Unruh wrote:
> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?

No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
political power, but to eradicate political power.

---
No Gods. No Masters.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

wrote in message
news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Unruh wrote:
>> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
>
> No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> political power, but to eradicate political power.

And replace it with another political power... Which, depending on your
school of anarchism, is very possibly worse than the one removed. It's pure
silliness. The first anarchist nation will be gone in a day because it
completely lacks ability to defend itself.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 03:27:58 GMT, "John Emmons"
wrote in alt.atheism

>Personally I find it comforting to know that a couple of wack jobs on the
>internet, without the benefit of any actual knowledge or facts, have, in the
>space of less than 24 hours, already determined that the whole thing was a
>hoax.
>
>I'll feel better when my two kids fly home from the UK in a couple of weeks
>just knowing that the internet loon squad is already on the case...

They infest the former White House (now the shithouse) and "The Hill."

[]


--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On 11 Aug 2006 00:37:04 -0700, "Regensburg" wrote in
alt.atheism

>
>Fester wrote:
>> Regensburg wrote:
>
>> > Why? It's an age-old ploy to get you to approve of a police state.
>> >
>> > Watch this:
>> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586
>
>> See why we must wage war on terror and against whom we must wage it:
>
>Are you speaking of the totalitarian terrorist Bush?

'Pusturing Festule' picks the corn chunks out of Shrubs' arse.


--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In comp.security.misc drkangel666@hotmail.com wrote:
> No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> political power, but to eradicate political power.
> No Gods. No Masters.

But dreams...

VB.
--
Ich würde schätzen, dass ca. 87% aller spontanen Schätzungen völlig für
den Arsch sind.

Ralph Angenendt in debate@ccc.de

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fred Liken wrote:
> wrote in message
> news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Unruh wrote:
> >> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
> >
> > No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> > political power, but to eradicate political power.
>
> And replace it with another political power...

You'd do well to buy a clue.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Les Hemmings wrote:

> Part of this strategy included the maintenance of a state of continual
> warfare, which Goldstein discussed in the third chapter. The three major
> powers were not fighting this perpetual war for victory, they were fighting
> to keep a state of emergency always present as the surest guarantee of
> authoritarianism.
>
> Orwell, 1984

For additional info see:

#1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1002626006461047517

#2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7930933565201168

#3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3649090417189127240

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In comp.security.misc Chris Hayes wrote:
> > >> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
> > > No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> > > political power, but to eradicate political power.
> > And replace it with another political power...
> You'd do well to buy a clue.

Maybe you'd do well to buy a piece of reality.

Yours,
VB.
--
Viel schlimmer als die Implementation von PHP ist jedoch das Design.

Rudolf Polzer in de.comp.security.misc

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:25:08 -0700, drkangel666 wrote:

>
> Unruh wrote:
>> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
>
> No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> political power, but to eradicate political power.
>
> ---
> No Gods. No Masters.


So, everyone behaves the same and no one has the urge to take some
power? Oh, I see, everybody is SO full of the nice world that they do not
even have this urge, right?

Oh, and, euh, who will take the lead in rooting out the political power?

Keep on dreaming...

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

jmcgill wrote:
> Regensburg wrote:
> > Mxsmanic wrote:
> >
> >> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
> >> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
> >> using only fuels such as wood.
> >
> > Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
> > which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,
>
> You make it sound as if the fire was somebody burning trash in a
> wastebasket or something. Also, you seem to be trying to make the
> case for some other cause besides crash damage and fires from jet fuel
> and other fuels, but you show no real evidence for other causes, and
> choose to attack the idea of the commonly accepted cause.
>
> > and certainly not in WTC 7 which no plane ever hit.
>
> No plane hit the building, but it certainly had more debris fall on it
> than any other building in history.
>
> How many buildings were destroyed on 9/11? Just 3? Or more than 3?
>
> What was the nature and extent of damage to other buildings that were
> also not hit by airplanes? Was the damage severe, or was it superficial?



The WTC are the first skyscrappers to come down from a fire. 1 burned
for an hour the other only 30 minutes. While if you look there are
other buildings that have burned for hours and never fell.

There was molten steel at the site, there are many pictures that show
this.

If building 7 took on so much debri that caused it to fall why did it
take 5 hours later.

Why did the south tower burning only 30 minutes and which was hit in a
less severe spot (because most of the jet fuel blew up outside the
building) fall first?

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Chris Hayes" writes:


>Fred Liken wrote:
>> wrote in message
>> news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Unruh wrote:
>> >> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
>> >
>> > No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
>> > political power, but to eradicate political power.

And you would take over the running of the sewer system I assume.

>>
>> And replace it with another political power...

>You'd do well to buy a clue.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

duke_fan_in_ky@yahoo.com wrote:
> jmcgill wrote:
>> Regensburg wrote:
>>> Mxsmanic wrote:
>>>
>>>> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
>>>> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
>>>> using only fuels such as wood.
>>> Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
>>> which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,
>> You make it sound as if the fire was somebody burning trash in a
>> wastebasket or something. Also, you seem to be trying to make the
>> case for some other cause besides crash damage and fires from jet fuel
>> and other fuels, but you show no real evidence for other causes, and
>> choose to attack the idea of the commonly accepted cause.
>>
>>> and certainly not in WTC 7 which no plane ever hit.
>> No plane hit the building, but it certainly had more debris fall on it
>> than any other building in history.
>>
>> How many buildings were destroyed on 9/11? Just 3? Or more than 3?
>>
>> What was the nature and extent of damage to other buildings that were
>> also not hit by airplanes? Was the damage severe, or was it superficial?
>
>
>
> The WTC are the first skyscrappers to come down from a fire. 1 burned
> for an hour the other only 30 minutes. While if you look there are
> other buildings that have burned for hours and never fell.
>
> There was molten steel at the site, there are many pictures that show
> this.
>
> If building 7 took on so much debri that caused it to fall why did it
> take 5 hours later.
>
> Why did the south tower burning only 30 minutes and which was hit in a
> less severe spot (because most of the jet fuel blew up outside the
> building) fall first?
>


You did not answer the questions. How many buildings were destroyed on
9/11? Just 3, or more than 3? (Hint: The answer is closer to 20).

>There was molten steel at the site, there are many pictures that show\
>this.

Molten steel is notoriously difficult to photograph. Where are these
"many pictures" and what is the basis for claiming that they depict
"molten steel?"

>If building 7 took on so much debri that caused it to fall why did it
> take 5 hours later.

I agree that it's a complicated system to try to model. I don't see how
that justifies jumping straight to the "explosives" theory. I don't see
evidence to support the explosives theory, only speculation and poorly
considered attacks on anyone who chooses not to accept that theory for
lack of evidence.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Unruh wrote:
> "Chris Hayes" writes:
>
>
>> Fred Liken wrote:
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> Unruh wrote:
>>>>> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the
>>>>> revolution?
>>>>
>>>> No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
>>>> political power, but to eradicate political power.
>
> And you would take over the running of the sewer system I assume.

Nar, anarchists shit anywhere they feel like shitting, on the carpet etc.

>>> And replace it with another political power...
>
>> You'd do well to buy a clue.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:55:52 GMT, Leythos wrote:

>In article , jmcgill@email.arizona.edu
>says...
>> I agree that it's a complicated system to try to model. I don't see how
>> that justifies jumping straight to the "explosives" theory. I don't see
>> evidence to support the explosives theory, only speculation and poorly
>> considered attacks on anyone who chooses not to accept that theory for
>> lack of evidence.
>
>That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
>strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of evaluating
>their own belief.

Reminds me of Linda Thompson back in the early 1990s on Fidonet. She
would rant and rave, call people idiots, clueless, etc., Even if her
facts were correct on certain issues, she could never grasp the
concept that you win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

I find it interesting that anyone would worry about how many flies they can
catch using either honey or vinegar...

You're talking about scoring debate points on usenet...big F'ng deal.

If usenet could actually do something, the powers that be would eliminate
it. Treat it like it is, a bunch of folks who share some sort of common
interests where every once in a great while you might pick up some glimmer
of a good idea.

John E.


"Ugly Anna" wrote in message
news:d6o6e2tl7hchbr15hlpp608olb822bnb2l@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:55:52 GMT, Leythos wrote:
>
> >In article , jmcgill@email.arizona.edu
> >says...
> >> I agree that it's a complicated system to try to model. I don't see
how
> >> that justifies jumping straight to the "explosives" theory. I don't
see
> >> evidence to support the explosives theory, only speculation and poorly
> >> considered attacks on anyone who chooses not to accept that theory for
> >> lack of evidence.
> >
> >That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
> >strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of evaluating
> >their own belief.
>
> Reminds me of Linda Thompson back in the early 1990s on Fidonet. She
> would rant and rave, call people idiots, clueless, etc., Even if her
> facts were correct on certain issues, she could never grasp the
> concept that you win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

John Emmons wrote:
> I find it interesting that anyone would worry about how many flies they can
> catch using either honey or vinegar...


Raw sewage works better than honey or vinegar.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In article ,
Leythos wrote:

> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
> strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of evaluating
> their own belief.

Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

amde@aol.com wrote:
> I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..

New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> amde@aol.com wrote:
>
>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
>
>
> New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625

Number One:

May 18th, 2002. The first details of the President’s Daily Briefing of
August 6th, 2001, are revealed, including its title - “Bin Laden
Determined To Strike In U.S.” The same day another memo is discovered -
revealing the FBI knew of men with links to Al Qaeda training at an
Arizona flight school. The memo was never acted upon. Questions about
9/11 Intelligence failures are swirling.

May 20th, 2002. Two days later, FBI Director Mueller declares another
terrorist attack “inevitable.” The next day, the Department of Homeland
Security issues warnings of attacks against railroads nationwide, and
against New York City landmarks like the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue
of Liberty.

Number Two:

June 6th, 2002. Colleen Rowley, the FBI agent who tried to alert her
superiors to the specialized flight training taken by Zacarias
Moussaoui, whose information suggests the government missed a chance to
break up the 9/11 plot, testifies before Congress. Senate Intelligence
Committee Chair Graham says Rowley’s testimony has inspired similar
pre-9/11 whistle-blowers.

June 10th, 2002. Four days later, speaking from Russia, Attorney General
John Ashcroft reveals that an American named Jose Padilla is under
arrest, accused of plotting a radiation bomb attack in this country.
Padilla had, by this time, already been detained for more than a month.

Number Three:

February 5th, 2003. Secretary of State Powell tells the United Nations
Security Council of Iraq’s concealment of weapons, including 18 mobile
biological weapons laboratories, justifying a U.N. or U.S. first strike.
Many in the UN are doubtful. Months later, much of the information
proves untrue.

February 7th, 2003. Two days later, as anti-war demonstrations continue
to take place around the globe, Homeland Security Secretary Ridge cites
“credible threats” by Al Qaeda, and raises the terror alert level to
orange. Three days after that, Fire Administrator David Paulison - who
would become the acting head of FEMA after the Hurricane Katrina
disaster - advises Americans to stock up on plastic sheeting and duct
tape to protect themselves against radiological or biological attack.

Number Four:

July 23rd, 2003: The White House admits the CIA -- months before the
President's State of the Union Address -- expressed "strong doubts"
about the claim that Iraq had attempted to buy uranium from Niger. On
the 24th, the Congressional report on the 9/11 attacks is issued; it
criticizes government at all levels; it reveals an FBI informant had
been living with two of the future hijackers; and it concludes that Iraq
had no link to Al-Qaeda. 28 pages of the report are redacted. On the
26th, American troops are accused of beating Iraqi prisoners.

July 29th, 2003. Three days later, amid all of those negative headlines,
Homeland Security issues warnings of further terrorist attempts to use
airplanes for suicide attacks.

Number Five:

December 17th, 2003. 9/11 Commission Co-Chair Thomas Kean says the
attacks were preventable. The next day, a Federal Appeals Court says the
government cannot detain suspected radiation-bomber Jose Padilla
indefinitely without charges, and the chief U.S. Weapons inspector in
Iraq, Dr. David Kay, who has previously announced he has found no
Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, announces he will resign his post.

December 21st, 2003. Three days later, just before Christmas, Homeland
Security again raises the threat level to Orange, claiming “credible
intelligence” of further plots to crash airliners into U.S. cities.
Subsequently, six international flights into this country are cancelled
after some passenger names purportedly produce matches on government
no-fly lists. The French later identify those matched names: one belongs
to an insurance salesman from Wales, another to an elderly Chinese
woman, a third to a five-year old boy.

Number Six:

March 30th, 2004. The new chief weapons inspector in Iraq, Charles
Duelfer tells Congress we have still not found any WMD there. And, after
weeks of refusing to appear before the 9/11 Commission, Condoleezza Rice
finally relents and agrees to testify. On the 31st: Four Blackwater-USA
contractors working in Iraq are murdered, their mutilated bodies dragged
through the streets and left on public display in Fallujah. The role of
civilian contractors in Iraq is widely questioned.

April 2nd, 2004. Homeland Security issues a bulletin warning that
terrorists may try to blow up buses and trains, using fertilizer and
fuel bombs - like the one detonated in Oklahoma City - stuffed into
satchels or duffel bags.

Number Seven:

May 16th, 2004. Secretary of State Powell appears on “Meet The Press.”
Moderator Tim Russert closes by asking him about the “enormous personal
credibility” Powell had placed before the U.N. in laying out a case
against Saddam Hussein. An aide to Powell interrupts the question,
saying the interview is over. Powell finishes his answer, admitting that
much of the information he had been given about Weapons of Mass
Destruction was “inaccurate and wrong, and, in some cases, deliberately
misleading.”

May 21st, 2004, new photos showing mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at
Abu Ghraib Prison are released. On the 24th - Associated Press video
from Iraq confirms U.S. forces mistakenly bombed a wedding party -
killing more than 40.

Wednesday the 26th. Two days later, Attorney General Ashcroft and FBI
Director Mueller warn that intelligence from multiple sources, in
Ashcroft’s words, “indicates Al-Qaeda’s specific intention to hit the
United States hard,” and that “90 percent of the arrangements for an
attack on the United States were complete.” The color-coded warning
system is not raised, and Homeland Security Secretary Ridge does not
attend the announcement.

Number Eight:

July 6th, 2004. Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry selects
Senator John Edwards as his vice presidential running mate, producing a
small bump in the election opinion polls, and a huge swing in media
attention towards the Democratic campaign.

July 8th, 2004. Two days later, Homeland Secretary Ridge warns of
information about Al-Qaeda attacks during the summer or autumn. Four
days after that, the head of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission,
DeForest B. Soaries, Junior, confirms he has written to Ridge about the
prospect of postponing the upcoming Presidential election in the event
it is interrupted by terrorist acts.

Number Nine:

July 29th, 2004. At their party convention in Boston, the Democrats
formally nominate John Kerry as their candidate for President. As in the
wake of any convention, the Democrats dominate the media attention over
the ensuing weekend.

Monday, August 1st, 2004. The Department of Homeland Security raises the
alert status for financial centers in New York, New Jersey, and
Washington to orange. The evidence supporting the warning -
reconnaissance data, left in a home in Iraq - later proves to be roughly
four years old and largely out-of-date.

Number Ten:

Last Thursday. At 10 AM Eastern Time, the President addresses the
National Endowment for Democracy, once again emphasizing the importance
of the war on terror and insisting his government has broken up at least
10 terrorist plots since 9/11.

At 3 PM Eastern Time, five hours after the President’s speech has begun,
the Associated Press reports that Karl Rove will testify again to the
CIA Leak Grand Jury, and that Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald has told
Rove he cannot guarantee that he will not be indicted.

At 5:17 PM Eastern Time, seven hours after the President’s speech has
begun, New York officials disclose a bomb threat to the city’s subway
system - based on information supplied by the Federal Government. A
Homeland Security spokesman says the intelligence upon which the
disclosure is based is “of doubtful credibility.” And it later proves
that New York City had known of the threat for at least three days, and
had increased police presence in the subways long before making the
announcement at that particular time. Local New York television station,
WNBC, reports it had the story of the threat days in advance, but was
asked by "high ranking federal officials" in New York and Washington to
hold off its story.

Less than four days after revealing the threat, Mayor Michael Bloomberg
says "Since the period of the threat now seems to be passing, I think
over the immediate future, we'll slowly be winding down the enhanced
security."

While news organizations ranging from the New York Post to NBC News
quote sources who say there was reason to believe that informant who
triggered the warning simply ‘made it up’, a Senior U.S.
Counter-terrorism official tells the New York Times: "There was no
there, there."

The list of three additional examples follows.

Number Eleven:

October 22nd, 2004. After weeks of Administration insistence that there
are terrorist plans to disrupt the elections, FBI, Law Enforcement, and
other U.S. Intelligence agencies report they have found no direct
evidence of any plot. More over, they say, a key CIA source who had
claimed knowledge of the plot, has been discredited.

October 29, 2004. Seven days later - four days before the Presidential
election - the first supposedly new, datable tape of Osama Bin Laden
since December 2001 is aired on the Al-Jazeera Network. A Bush-Cheney
campaign official anonymously tells the New York Daily News that from
his campaign’s point of view, the tape is quote “a little gift.”

Number Twelve:

May 5th, 2005. 88 members of the United States House of Representatives
send a letter to President Bush demanding an investigation of the
so-called “Downing Street Memo” - a British document which describes
purported American desire dating to 2002 to "fix" the evidence to fit
the charges against Iraq. In Iraq over the following weekend, car
bombings escalate. On the 11th, more than 75 Iraqis are killed in one.

May 11th, 2005. Later that day, an instructor and student pilot violate
restricted airspace in Washington D.C. It is an event that happens
hundreds of times a year, but this time the plane gets to within three
miles of the White House. The Capitol is evacuated; Vice President
Cheney, the First Lady, and Nancy Reagan are all rushed to secure
locations. The President, biking through woods, is not immediately notified.

Number Thirteen:

June 26th, 2005. A Gallup poll suggests that 61 percent of the American
public believes the President does not have a plan in Iraq. On the 28th,
Mr. Bush speaks to the nation from Fort Bragg: "We fight today because
terrorists want to attack our country and kill our citizens, and Iraq is
where they are making their stand. So we'll fight them there, we'll
fight them across the world, and we will stay in the fight until the
fight is won."

June 29th 2005. The next day, another private pilot veers into
restricted airspace, the Capitol is again evacuated, and this time, so
is the President.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In article ,
Leythos wrote:

> In article ,
> bearclaw@cruller.invalid says...
> > In article ,
> > Leythos wrote:
> >
> > > That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
> > > strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of evaluating
> > > their own belief.
> >
> > Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.
>
> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?

Two

>
> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say that
> many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to honor any
> of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.

I guess, as an American, we will have to disagree. I saw no threat to
the United States during the run up to the war. I saw no evidence of any
connection between the events of 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.

I only saw weapons inspectors literally *begging* the U.S. to allow them
to finish their work; crowds in the streets across the globe protesting
unprovoked aggression; phony estimates of the costs of invasion and
occupation; phony documentation presented as fact; no-bid contracts to
conduct the war; U.S. covert agents betrayed by their own government;
ongoing government attempts to rigidly control media coverage of the
war; official suspicion cast upon any naysayers, regardless of their
past patriotism (i.e., Sen. Murtha); a nation of good guys transformed
into a nation of torturers and on and on.

All in all, I see a dishonorable, dishonest and corrupt cadre of
"elected" officials profiting wildly from the conduct of a dishonorable
and corrupt war visited upon an undeserving foreign land. I cannot
imagine that it will not return to haunt us.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On 16 Aug 2006 04:19:49 -0700, duke_fan_in_ky@yahoo.com wrote:

>
>jmcgill wrote:
>> Regensburg wrote:
>> > Mxsmanic wrote:
>> >
>> >> In fact, with a good draft, iron will melt, which is why furnaces must
>> >> be lined with refractories instead. Iron has been fused for millennia
>> >> using only fuels such as wood.
>> >
>> > Such conditions did not exist in the WTC 1 & 2buildings,
>> > which burned for a mere 30 minutes and 1 hour respectively,
>>
>> You make it sound as if the fire was somebody burning trash in a
>> wastebasket or something. Also, you seem to be trying to make the
>> case for some other cause besides crash damage and fires from jet fuel
>> and other fuels, but you show no real evidence for other causes, and
>> choose to attack the idea of the commonly accepted cause.
>>
>> > and certainly not in WTC 7 which no plane ever hit.
>>
>> No plane hit the building, but it certainly had more debris fall on it
>> than any other building in history.
>>
>> How many buildings were destroyed on 9/11? Just 3? Or more than 3?
>>
>> What was the nature and extent of damage to other buildings that were
>> also not hit by airplanes? Was the damage severe, or was it superficial?
>
>
>
>The WTC are the first skyscrappers to come down from a fire. 1 burned
>for an hour the other only 30 minutes. While if you look there are
>other buildings that have burned for hours and never fell.
>
>There was molten steel at the site, there are many pictures that show
>this.
>
>If building 7 took on so much debri that caused it to fall why did it
>take 5 hours later.
>
>Why did the south tower burning only 30 minutes and which was hit in a
>less severe spot (because most of the jet fuel blew up outside the
>building) fall first?


You talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Do you have any cite
other than a whack-job conspiricy website that supports your claims
for the burn time at the WTC?

For example:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.h tml
http://wtc.nist.gov/
http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.shtml
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/06/30/towers.safety/
http://english.people.com.cn/200112/20/eng20011220_87119.sht ml

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:11:44 -0700, jmcgill
wrote:

>John Emmons wrote:
>> I find it interesting that anyone would worry about how many flies they can
>> catch using either honey or vinegar...
>
>
>Raw sewage works better than honey or vinegar.


OOOOO!...Snap!

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:48:47 GMT, "John Emmons"
wrote:

>I find it interesting that anyone would worry about how many flies they can
>catch using either honey or vinegar...
>
>You're talking about scoring debate points on usenet...big F'ng deal.
>
>If usenet could actually do something, the powers that be would eliminate
>it. Treat it like it is, a bunch of folks who share some sort of common
>interests where every once in a great while you might pick up some glimmer
>of a good idea.
>
>John E.

Take it easy! I was merely reminiscing. After all, Mrs. Thompson was
the one who thought that she had to win followers.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

jmcgill wrote:
>duke_fan_in_ky@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Why did the south tower burning only 30 minutes and which was hit in a
>> less severe spot (because most of the jet fuel blew up outside the
>> building) fall first?
>You did not answer the questions. How many buildings were destroyed on
>9/11? Just 3, or more than 3? (Hint: The answer is closer to 20).

And building #7 had burned a great deal, something that the 911
kooks don'ty want to admit -- even going so far as to never put
photographs of the North or West face of the building on their
insane conspiracy kook web sites.

---
Blow up Glenn Canyon Dam.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:25:08 -0700, drkangel666 wrote:
>> Unruh wrote:
>>> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
>>
>> No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
>> political power, but to eradicate political power.
>> No Gods. No Masters.
>
>
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:23:45 +0200, NO_spamm
wrote:>
So, everyone behaves the same and no one has the urge to take some
>power? Oh, I see, everybody is SO full of the nice world that they do not
>even have this urge, right?
>
>Oh, and, euh, who will take the lead in rooting out the political power?
>
>Keep on dreaming...

Several years back when the self-proclaimed anarchists came to Seattle
during the WTO riots, er meetings, the irony was that they had
planning and organizational meetings ahead of time. Oxymoron alert.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > amde@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
> >
> > New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
> >
>
> www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625

There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
in the Qu'ran that says so.

No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
you dead.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

>>Fred Liken wrote:
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> >
>>> > Unruh wrote:
>>> >> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the
>>> >> revolution?
>>> >
>>> > No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
>>> > political power, but to eradicate political power.
>>>
>>> And replace it with another political power...
>
>>You'd do well to buy a clue.

lol. Classic. Everything will run great because the gangsters will beat
their guns into business suits. lol. We don't live in the 18th century.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Carole Allen wrote:
>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:25:08 -0700, drkangel666 wrote:
>>
>>>Unruh wrote:
>>>
>>>>And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
>>>
>>>No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
>>>political power, but to eradicate political power.
>>>No Gods. No Masters.
>>
>>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:23:45 +0200, NO_spamm
> wrote:>
> So, everyone behaves the same and no one has the urge to take some
>
>>power? Oh, I see, everybody is SO full of the nice world that they do not
>>even have this urge, right?
>>
>>Oh, and, euh, who will take the lead in rooting out the political power?
>>
>>Keep on dreaming...
>
>
> Several years back when the self-proclaimed anarchists came to Seattle
> during the WTO riots, er meetings, the irony was that they had
> planning and organizational meetings ahead of time. Oxymoron alert.

I don't think anarchy is terribly workable either, but let's
be fair. Anarchists are not and have never been against organization,
or even following orders. They simply object to being made a part
of an organization or made to follow orders *without their consent*.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Regensburg wrote:
> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
> > Put a good draft in one and it will, been there, done that, melted the
> > back out of a potbelly stove while boosting the draft with a blower.
>
> Sounds like a hillbilly's tall tale to me.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_rome/

Note the melted gate. Just from wood and cloth fires

I also went to the Maryland FIre Museum resently and saw melted iron
artifacts from the Great Fire of Baltimore.

And you didn't even need a mixure of Jet fuel and the largest draft
chimeny outside of a vacano like the WTC was.

Hatter

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
>>>
>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
>>>
>>
>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
>
>
> There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
> thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a

There is a great deal of truth in what you say.

> religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> in the Qu'ran that says so.
>
> No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> you dead.

Same old strawman arguments, I see.

>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >
> >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>amde@aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
> >>>
> >>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
> >>>
> >>
> >>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
> >
> >
> > There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
> > thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
>
> There is a great deal of truth in what you say.

So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
Would that make you feel better about the world?

> > religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> > in the Qu'ran that says so.
> >
> > No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> > and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> > you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> > you dead.
>
> Same old strawman arguments, I see.

So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
dangerous to you than the current US government?
You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
these Islamic extremists than you would be living
in the USA?

You can't control, nor completely understand the
Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
something you think you *can* control, the US
government...you kid yourself into thinking that
if you use your power to protest and vote and
change your government, all will be better with
the world. This belief protects you from having
to think about the fact that there are people in
the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
and don't care what changes you've made to
your government in your attempts to appease
them.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>
>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> amde@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
>>>>> New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
>>>>>
>>>> www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
>>>
>>> There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
>>> thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
>> There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
>
> So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
> Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
> Would that make you feel better about the world?
>
>>> religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
>>> in the Qu'ran that says so.
>>>
>>> No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
>>> and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
>>> you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
>>> you dead.
>> Same old strawman arguments, I see.
>
> So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> dangerous to you than the current US government?
> You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
> these Islamic extremists than you would be living
> in the USA?
>
> You can't control, nor completely understand the
> Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
> something you think you *can* control, the US
> government...you kid yourself into thinking that
> if you use your power to protest and vote and
> change your government, all will be better with
> the world. This belief protects you from having
> to think about the fact that there are people in
> the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
> and don't care what changes you've made to
> your government in your attempts to appease
> them.

If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
would expect the world would become a better place in short order.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>
>
>
> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> would expect the world would become a better place in short order.

It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.

Notan

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Notan wrote:
> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> > and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> > would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>
> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.

They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
because they've got information and goals that you
don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
major governments.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Notan wrote:
> > Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> > > and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> > > would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >
> > It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> because they've got information and goals that you
> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> major governments.

Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

Notan

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Notan wrote
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>> Notan wrote
>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote

>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a better
>>>> place in short order.

>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.

>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>> because they've got information and goals that you
>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>> major governments.

> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In comp.security.misc firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> > It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> They are thinking and behaving rationally.

That's not true.

Bush is arguing with religion, not with ratio. And what he's doing,
obviously is not based on ratio.

Yours,
VB.
--
Viel schlimmer als die Implementation von PHP ist jedoch das Design.

Rudolf Polzer in de.comp.security.misc

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Notan wrote:

> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
believe.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In comp.security.misc Rod Speed wrote:
[U.S.]
> > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
> Yep

OMN! How feeble-minded some people are...

VB.
--
Viel schlimmer als die Implementation von PHP ist jedoch das Design.

Rudolf Polzer in de.comp.security.misc

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

jmcgill wrote:
>
> Notan wrote:
>
> > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
> I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
> of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
> believe.

That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.

Notan

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:
>
> In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
> notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
> > jmcgill wrote:
> > >
> > > Notan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
> > >
> > > I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
> > > of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
> > > believe.
> >
> > That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
>
> The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
> and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
> the communist media wants you to believe.

So, financially, security-wise, healthcare-wise, etc., we're really in
good shape... It's the media that's trying to make us look bad?

ROFL

Notan

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:33:35 GMT, Leythos wrote:

>In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
>notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
>> jmcgill wrote:
>> >
>> > Notan wrote:
>> >
>> > > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>> >
>> > I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
>> > of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
>> > believe.
>>
>> That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
>
>The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
>and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
>the communist media wants you to believe.

What colour is the sky on your planet?

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
>>>>>
>>>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
>>>
>>>
>>>There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
>>>thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
>>
>>There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
>
>
> So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
> Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
> Would that make you feel better about the world?
>
>
>>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
>>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
>>>
>>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
>>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
>>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
>>>you dead.
>>
>>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
>
>
> So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> dangerous to you than the current US government?

Where did I say that? Same old strawman.

> You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
> these Islamic extremists than you would be living
> in the USA?

Where did I say that? Same old strawman.

>
> You can't control, nor completely understand the
> Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
> something you think you *can* control, the US
> government...you kid yourself into thinking that
> if you use your power to protest and vote and
> change your government, all will be better with
> the world. This belief protects you from having
> to think about the fact that there are people in
> the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
> and don't care what changes you've made to
> your government in your attempts to appease
> them.

Where did I say appease? Same old strawman.

As a patriot, it is my duty to protest the actions of my misguided
government and vote to change it. Supporting a government that is
destroying the US Constitution, destroying America's reputation in the
world, and creating more Islamic terrorists every day is an act of treason.

>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Notan wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Notan wrote:
> > > Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> > > > and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> > > > would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> > >
> > > It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> >
> > They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> > not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> > because they've got information and goals that you
> > don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> > think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> > major governments.
>
> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

I don't see how you can interpret my observation in that
fashion. Whether you or I see the government as "doing
a good job" is orthogonal to whether the government leaders
are making rational decisions based on their information
and goals. If you think the leaders have wrong information
or disagree with their goals, they could all be geniuses
and you'd still consider them to be doing a bad job.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Notan wrote:
>
>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>>
>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>
> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> because they've got information and goals that you
> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> major governments.

The facts are otherwise. Rummy told us the war in Iraq would be no more
than six months. Shooter told us "weeks, not months." Georgie told Pat
Roberts that there would be no U.S. casualties. Shooter told us that
the insurgency was "in its last throes, if you will." These are not the
comments of people who can think rationally.

People who think rationally stated that Iraq had no WMD. People who
think rationally stated that invading Iraq would be walking into a
quagmire. People think rationally stated that invading Iraq would
result in an influx of Islamic extremists. People who think rationally
stated that invading Iraq would inflame followers of Islam and breed new
extremists. People who think rationally stated that invading Iraq would
result in an Iraqi civil war.

The statements of people who think rationally were dismissed by people
who can't think rationally -- people much like you.


>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:

> Notan wrote
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>
>>>Notan wrote
>>>
>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>
>
>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a better
>>>>>place in short order.
>
>
>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>
>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>major governments.
>
>
>>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
>
> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>
>

The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Notan wrote:
>
>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>>
>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>
> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> because they've got information and goals that you
> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> major governments.

Except in the USA! (You don't REALLY consider the Shrub
"rational", do you?)
>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Notan wrote:
> >
> >>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> >>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> >>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >>
> >>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> >
> >
> > They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> > not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> > because they've got information and goals that you
> > don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> > think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> > major governments.
>
> The facts are otherwise.

You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Notan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
>>>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
>>>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>>>>
>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>
>>>
>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>major governments.
>>
>>The facts are otherwise.
>
>
> You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
> Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
> Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?

No, the word I was looking for was the word that I used: facts. You,
being a member of the Bush flock, wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in
the face.

Here's the part of my post (the facts) that you snipped:

The facts are otherwise. Rummy told us the war in Iraq would be no more
than six months. Shooter told us "weeks, not months." Georgie told Pat
Roberts that there would be no U.S. casualties. Shooter told us that
the insurgency was "in its last throes, if you will." These are not the
comments of people who can think rationally.

People who think rationally stated that Iraq had no WMD. People who
think rationally stated that invading Iraq would be walking into a
quagmire. People think rationally stated that invading Iraq would
result in an influx of Islamic extremists. People who think rationally
stated that invading Iraq would inflame followers of Islam and breed new
extremists. People who think rationally stated that invading Iraq would
result in an Iraqi civil war.

The statements of people who think rationally were dismissed by people
who can't think rationally -- people much like you.


>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >
> >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Notan wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> >>>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> >>>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >>>>
> >>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> >>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> >>>because they've got information and goals that you
> >>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> >>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> >>>major governments.
> >>
> >>The facts are otherwise.
> >
> > You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
> > Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
> > Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?
>
> No, the word I was looking for was the word that I used: facts. You,
> being a member of the Bush flock, wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in
> the face.

Thus providing evidence that you *don't* understand the
difference between a fact and an opinion. Thank you
for making that clear.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Notan wrote:
> >
> >>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> >>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> >>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >>
> >>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> >
> >
> > They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> > not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> > because they've got information and goals that you
> > don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> > think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> > major governments.
>
> Except in the USA! (You don't REALLY consider the Shrub
> "rational", do you?)

Certainly. I'm simply aware of the fact that rational people
don't always agree, due to differences in information, goals,
or simply perspective. Partisan extremism on either side
is no evidence of irrationality on the part of the Bush
administration.

Are you really convinced that a person incapable of
rational thought could perform the necessary actions
required to attain a governorship and then a presidency?
Go on and on all you like about his mental limitations,
eventually you'll realize that he's the one sitting in the
Oval Office ignoring your opinion instead of vice versa,
and he didn't get there by accident.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >
> >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
> >>>thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
> >>
> >>There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
> >
> >
> > So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
> > Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
> > Would that make you feel better about the world?
> >
> >
> >>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> >>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
> >>>
> >>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> >>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> >>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> >>>you dead.
> >>
> >>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
> >
> >
> > So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> > dangerous to you than the current US government?
>
> Where did I say that? Same old strawman.

Same old dodge, I see. You're afraid to answer
the question. Who do you think wants you dead,
the US government or Islamic extremists?

> > You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
> > these Islamic extremists than you would be living
> > in the USA?
>
> Where did I say that? Same old strawman.

You avoid the question again, and again and again.

> > You can't control, nor completely understand the
> > Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
> > something you think you *can* control, the US
> > government...you kid yourself into thinking that
> > if you use your power to protest and vote and
> > change your government, all will be better with
> > the world. This belief protects you from having
> > to think about the fact that there are people in
> > the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
> > and don't care what changes you've made to
> > your government in your attempts to appease
> > them.
>
> Where did I say appease? Same old strawman.

What's your master plan, then? Come on, show
me what a genius you are. What's your plan for
making the world - or at least yourself - safe from
people who want you dead simply because you
don't follow Allah? "Impeach Bush" isn't a plan,
since you haven't said what you'd do in his
stead. Get around your swallowing and spewing
venom and think for a change.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Notan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
>>>>>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
>>>>>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>major governments.
>>>>
>>>>The facts are otherwise.
>>>
>>>You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
>>>Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
>>>Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?
>>
>>No, the word I was looking for was the word that I used: facts. You,
>>being a member of the Bush flock, wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in
>>the face.
>
>
> Thus providing evidence that you *don't* understand the
> difference between a fact and an opinion. Thank you
> for making that clear.

What's clear is that you get your "facts" from the likes of George W.
Bush, a chronic liar.

Here are the facts that you snipped from my response:

The facts are otherwise. Rummy told us the war in Iraq would be no more
than six months. Shooter told us "weeks, not months." Georgie told Pat
Roberts that there would be no U.S. casualties. Shooter told us that
the insurgency was "in its last throes, if you will." These are not the
comments of people who can think rationally.

People who think rationally stated that Iraq had no WMD. People who
think rationally stated that invading Iraq would be walking into a
quagmire. People think rationally stated that invading Iraq would
result in an influx of Islamic extremists. People who think rationally
stated that invading Iraq would inflame followers of Islam and breed new
extremists. People who think rationally stated that invading Iraq would
result in an Iraqi civil war.

The statements of people who think rationally were dismissed by people
who can't think rationally -- people much like you.
>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Notan wrote
>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote

>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a better
>>>>>> place in short order.

>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.

>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>> major governments.

>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.

> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.

Has to happen on someone's, stupid.

If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and
prevented...

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
>>>>>thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
>>>>
>>>>There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
>>>
>>>
>>>So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
>>>Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
>>>Would that make you feel better about the world?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
>>>>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
>>>>>
>>>>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
>>>>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
>>>>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
>>>>>you dead.
>>>>
>>>>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
>>>
>>>
>>>So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
>>>dangerous to you than the current US government?
>>
>>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
>
>
> Same old dodge, I see. You're afraid to answer
> the question. Who do you think wants you dead,
> the US government or Islamic extremists?
>
>
>>>You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
>>>these Islamic extremists than you would be living
>>>in the USA?
>>
>>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
>
>
> You avoid the question again, and again and again.
>
>
>>>You can't control, nor completely understand the
>>>Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
>>>something you think you *can* control, the US
>>>government...you kid yourself into thinking that
>>>if you use your power to protest and vote and
>>>change your government, all will be better with
>>>the world. This belief protects you from having
>>>to think about the fact that there are people in
>>>the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
>>>and don't care what changes you've made to
>>>your government in your attempts to appease
>>>them.
>>
>>Where did I say appease? Same old strawman.
>
>
> What's your master plan, then? Come on, show
> me what a genius you are. What's your plan for
> making the world - or at least yourself - safe from
> people who want you dead simply because you
> don't follow Allah? "Impeach Bush" isn't a plan,
> since you haven't said what you'd do in his
> stead. Get around your swallowing and spewing
> venom and think for a change.

I neither swallowed nor spewed venom. Don't judge others by your own
shortcomings.

There is absolutely no proof that anybody wants me dead just because I
don't follow Allah. Talk about not thinking. You are worse than Bush
who says they want us dead because they don't like our freedoms. They
want us dead because we have meddled in the affairs of their countries
for a hundred years. It's really as easy as that.

>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:
> Lamont Cranston wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Notan wrote
>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>
>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a better
>>>>>>> place in short order.
>
>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>> major governments.
>
>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>
>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>
> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>
> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
> anticipated and prevented...



bush,jr was warned....then went on vacation.


It's been all downhill for America since

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
> Lamont Cranston wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Notan wrote
>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>
>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> place in short order.
>
>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>> major governments.
>
>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>
>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>
> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>
> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
> anticipated and prevented...


Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Les Hemmings wrote:

[snip]

About that subject line. Isn't "terrorist scare" redundant? Just a
matter of who's causing the terror, I guess. To the ones who profit
from it, doesn't really matter whether the plot was real or not -- they
get the same CNN/Fox coverage either way.

eyelessgame

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

> >
> >> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
> >
> > Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
> >
> > If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
> > anticipated and prevented...
>
>
>
> bush,jr was warned....then went on vacation.
>
>
> It's been all downhill for America since
>

Its was downhill for every colony after the brits left....

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>
>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>
>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>
>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>> major governments.
>>
>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>
>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>>
>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>
>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>
>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>> anticipated and prevented...
>
>
> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
> since such attacks cannot be prevented?

Presumably you actually are that stupid.

Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
and be able to drive the plane etc.

The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
> Lefty wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>
>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>
>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>> trash.
>>>
>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>
>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>
>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>
>>
>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>
> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>
> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>
> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>
> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.

Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe something
like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."
Wasn't it.
Which is it?

>
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >
> >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=22625
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
> >>>>>thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
> >>>>
> >>>>There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
> >>>Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
> >>>Would that make you feel better about the world?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> >>>>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> >>>>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> >>>>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> >>>>>you dead.
> >>>>
> >>>>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> >>>dangerous to you than the current US government?
> >>
> >>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
> >
> >
> > Same old dodge, I see. You're afraid to answer
> > the question. Who do you think wants you dead,
> > the US government or Islamic extremists?
> >
> >
> >>>You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
> >>>these Islamic extremists than you would be living
> >>>in the USA?
> >>
> >>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
> >
> >
> > You avoid the question again, and again and again.
> >
> >
> >>>You can't control, nor completely understand the
> >>>Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
> >>>something you think you *can* control, the US
> >>>government...you kid yourself into thinking that
> >>>if you use your power to protest and vote and
> >>>change your government, all will be better with
> >>>the world. This belief protects you from having
> >>>to think about the fact that there are people in
> >>>the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
> >>>and don't care what changes you've made to
> >>>your government in your attempts to appease
> >>>them.
> >>
> >>Where did I say appease? Same old strawman.
> >
> >
> > What's your master plan, then? Come on, show
> > me what a genius you are. What's your plan for
> > making the world - or at least yourself - safe from
> > people who want you dead simply because you
> > don't follow Allah? "Impeach Bush" isn't a plan,
> > since you haven't said what you'd do in his
> > stead. Get around your swallowing and spewing
> > venom and think for a change.
>
> I neither swallowed nor spewed venom. Don't judge others by your own
> shortcomings.

I judge you by what you write. If you want better, do better.

> There is absolutely no proof that anybody wants me dead just because I
> don't follow Allah.

Then you don't listen to Bin Laden or any of his underlings
when they post their rantings to the world. You
ignore uncomfortable facts so that you can shout your
comfortable opinions as facts, imagine my surprise that
you shout down others because you think they are doing
so instead of you.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote
>
>>Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>Notan wrote
>>>
>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>
>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>
>
>>>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a better
>>>>>>>place in short order.
>
>
>>>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>
>>>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>major governments.
>
>
>>>>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
>
>>>Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>
>
>>The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>
>
> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.

What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to happen
at all.

>
> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and
> prevented...

9/11 was anticipated and could have been prevented. Al Gore led a
commission to improve air security in the US, but the Republican
Congress blocked its recommendations. Gore stressed action against bin
Laden in his 2000 Campaign Platform. He would have continued Clinton /
Gore policies holding the Taliban accountable while pursuing Al Queda.

In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American
Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating the hijacking
of airliners and use them as weapons to crash into targets and cause
mass casualties.

9/11 happened on Bush's watch for a reason: incompetence. The Bushies
were too busy passing tax cuts for their wealthy friends and clearing
brush in Texas to pay any attention to the security of the country.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:

> Lefty wrote:
>
>>"Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote
>>>>
>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>
>>>>>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>>>thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>>emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>better
>>>>>>>>>place in short order.
>>>
>>>>>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>
>>>>>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>major governments.
>>>
>>>>>>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>
>>>>>Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>>>
>>>>The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>
>>>Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>
>>>If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>anticipated and prevented...
>>
>>
>>Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>
>
> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>
> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
> and be able to drive the plane etc.

That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time before
9/11. The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it
much harder to hijack aircraft. Unfortunately, the
Republican-controlled Congress was much too busy fixating on Clinton's
dick to take any action on those recommendations.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=2262 5
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
>>>>>>>thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
>>>>>Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
>>>>>Would that make you feel better about the world?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
>>>>>>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
>>>>>>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
>>>>>>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
>>>>>>>you dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
>>>>>dangerous to you than the current US government?
>>>>
>>>>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
>>>
>>>
>>>Same old dodge, I see. You're afraid to answer
>>>the question. Who do you think wants you dead,
>>>the US government or Islamic extremists?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
>>>>>these Islamic extremists than you would be living
>>>>>in the USA?
>>>>
>>>>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
>>>
>>>
>>>You avoid the question again, and again and again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>You can't control, nor completely understand the
>>>>>Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
>>>>>something you think you *can* control, the US
>>>>>government...you kid yourself into thinking that
>>>>>if you use your power to protest and vote and
>>>>>change your government, all will be better with
>>>>>the world. This belief protects you from having
>>>>>to think about the fact that there are people in
>>>>>the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
>>>>>and don't care what changes you've made to
>>>>>your government in your attempts to appease
>>>>>them.
>>>>
>>>>Where did I say appease? Same old strawman.
>>>
>>>
>>>What's your master plan, then? Come on, show
>>>me what a genius you are. What's your plan for
>>>making the world - or at least yourself - safe from
>>>people who want you dead simply because you
>>>don't follow Allah? "Impeach Bush" isn't a plan,
>>>since you haven't said what you'd do in his
>>>stead. Get around your swallowing and spewing
>>>venom and think for a change.
>>
>>I neither swallowed nor spewed venom. Don't judge others by your own
>>shortcomings.
>
>
> I judge you by what you write. If you want better, do better.
>
>
>>There is absolutely no proof that anybody wants me dead just because I
>>don't follow Allah.
>
>
> Then you don't listen to Bin Laden or any of his underlings
> when they post their rantings to the world. You

But, I do. They say things about wanting the U.S. out of the Middle East.

> ignore uncomfortable facts so that you can shout your

What you call "uncomfortable facts" are your opinions.

> comfortable opinions as facts, imagine my surprise that
> you shout down others because you think they are doing
> so instead of you.

I have shouted down nobody.

>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
>> Lefty wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>> trash.
>>>>
>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>
>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>
>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>
>>>
>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>
>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>
>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>
>> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
>> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
>> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>>
>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
>> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
>> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.

> Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe something
> like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."

That was BEFORE either had occurred, fuckwit.

> Wasn't it.
> Which is it?

Thats what you do after the first one, fuckwit.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Lefty wrote:
>>
>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>> trash.
>>>>
>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>
>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>
>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>
>>>
>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>
>>
>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>
>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>> and be able to drive the plane etc.

> That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time before 9/11.

Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.

It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself either.

> The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it much harder to hijack
> aircraft.

The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like that.

> Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too busy fixating on
> Clinton's dick to take any action on those recommendations.

Easy to be wise after the event.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote

>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>> better place in short order.

>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.

>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>> major governments.

>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.

>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.

>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.

> What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to happen at all.

Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.

>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and
>> prevented...

> 9/11 was anticipated

Pig ignorant lie.

> and could have been prevented.

Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
would actually be stupid enough to go that route.

Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>
>>Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lefty wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>>>>>thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>>>>emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>>better
>>>>>>>>>>>place in short order.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>major governments.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>trash.
>>>>>
>>>>>>The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>>
>>>>>Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>>anticipated and prevented...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>>>since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>
>>>
>>>Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>
>>>Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>and be able to drive the plane etc.
>
>
>>That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time before 9/11.
>
>
> Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
> enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
> some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
> clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.
>
> It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
> that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
> bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
> would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself either.
>
>
>>The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it much harder to hijack
>>aircraft.
>
>
> The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like that.

I didn't say that it did.

>
>
>>Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too busy fixating on
>>Clinton's dick to take any action on those recommendations.
>
>
> Easy to be wise after the event.

Many were wise before the event.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:

> Lamont Cranston wrote
>
>>Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>
>>>>Rod Speed wrote
>>>>
>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Notan wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>
>
>>>>>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>>>thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>>emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>better place in short order.
>
>
>>>>>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
>
>>>>>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>major governments.
>
>
>>>>>>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
>
>>>>>Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>
>
>>>>The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>
>
>>>Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>
>
>>What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to happen at all.
>
>
> Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
> like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.
>
>
>>>If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and
>>>prevented...
>
>
>>9/11 was anticipated
>
>
> Pig ignorant lie.
>
>
>>and could have been prevented.
>
>
> Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
> would actually be stupid enough to go that route.
>
> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.

Sure, flush the part which proves that 9/11 was anticipated, you lying
cocksucker. In it you will see that, contrary to your assertion that I
was lying when I said that 9/11 was anticipated, the North American
Aerospace Defense Command did, in fact, anticipate it:

9/11 was anticipated and could have been prevented. Al Gore led a
commission to improve air security in the US, but the Republican
Congress blocked its recommendations. Gore stressed action against bin
Laden in his 2000 Campaign Platform. He would have continued Clinton /
Gore policies holding the Taliban accountable while pursuing Al Queda.

In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American
Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating the hijacking
of airliners and use them as weapons to crash into targets and cause
mass casualties.

9/11 happened on Bush's watch for a reason: incompetence. The Bushies
were too busy passing tax cuts for their wealthy friends and clearing
brush in Texas to pay any attention to the security of the country.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kmm80Fc72e1U1@individual.net...
> Lefty wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>> news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>
>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>
>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>
>>> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
>>> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
>>> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>>>
>>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
>>> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
>>> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.
>
>> Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe
>> something
>> like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."
>
> That was BEFORE either had occurred, fuckwit.

Pretty lame.
The FBI had a line on the 911 plotters.

>
>> Wasn't it.
>> Which is it?
>
> Thats what you do after the first one, fuckwit.

You spend gigabucks fighting the last war, all the while serene in the
knowledge that any new threat is impossible to prevent?
Who's defeatist?
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kmmf2Fd0k77U1@individual.net...
> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>
>>>
>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>
>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>
>> That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time
>> before 9/11.
>
> Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
> enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
> some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
> clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.

The G8 summit in Italy, attended by Bush and Rice in the summer of
2001, had defenses against precisely that threat.
>
> It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
> that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
> bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
> would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself either.
>
>> The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it much
>> harder to hijack aircraft.
>
> The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like
> that.
>
>> Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too busy
>> fixating on Clinton's dick to take any action on those
>> recommendations.
>
> Easy to be wise after the event.
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kmm80Fc72e1U1@individual.net...
>> Lefty wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>> news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>
>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>>
>>>> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
>>>> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
>>>> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>>>>
>>>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
>>>> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
>>>> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.
>>
>>> Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe
>>> something
>>> like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."
>>
>> That was BEFORE either had occurred, fuckwit.

> Pretty lame.

Yep, your line was just that.

> The FBI had a line on the 911 plotters.

Like hell they ever did in the sense that they realised that
there was any plan to crash 5 planes simultaneously into
a variety of sites of national significance, let alone bring
down the twin towers as spectacularly as actually happened.

>>> Wasn't it.
>>> Which is it?

>> Thats what you do after the first one, fuckwit.

> You spend gigabucks fighting the last war, all the while serene in the knowledge that
> any new threat is impossible to prevent?

Nope, you do what is feasible to prevent another 9/11,
and accept the fact that it is never going to be feasible
to prevent some loons blowning up cars wherever they
feel like it like is happening in Iraq today, and that its just
not feasible to apply the sorts of searches and ID checks
that are quite effective with heavy aircraft to all public
transport and eliminate all risks of another London or Madrid.

> Who's defeatist?

Just another mindless stupid straw man.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>> start thinking and behaving rationally, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>> religiously or emotionally, then I would expect the world
>>>>>>>>>>>> would become a better
>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>
>>
>>> That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time
>>> before 9/11.
>>
>>
>> Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
>> enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
>> some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
>> clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.
>>
>> It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
>> that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
>> bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
>> would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself either.
>>
>>
>>> The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it much
>>> harder to hijack aircraft.
>>
>>
>> The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like
>> that.

> I didn't say that it did.

I didnt say you did.

>>> Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too busy
>>> fixating on Clinton's dick to take any action on those
>>> recommendations.
>>
>>
>> Easy to be wise after the event.
>
> Many were wise before the event.

Like hell they were with such an effectively coordinated attempt
to crash 5 planes into buildings of national significance, or even
that the twin towers would collapse so spectacularly.

There had been previous attempts to damage those
towers, which had amounted to no more than a nuisance.

Its now obvious that mass public transport is quite vulnerable
to what happened with London and Madrid and its become
clear that there is a significant problem with home grown
arseholes who are stupid enough to blow themselves to bits.

The problem is that there isnt a lot you can do to stop that sort of thing.

Its quite feasible to stop aircraft being hijacked and the Israelis
have demonstrated that it aint anything like rocket science.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kmmf2Fd0k77U1@individual.net...
>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is meaningless,
>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>
>>> That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time
>>> before 9/11.
>>
>> Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
>> enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
>> some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
>> clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.

> The G8 summit in Italy, attended by Bush and Rice in the summer of 2001, had defenses
> against precisely that threat.

But didnt stop London and Madrid, did it ?

>> It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
>> that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
>> bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
>> would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself either.

>>> The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it much
>>> harder to hijack aircraft.

>> The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like that.

>>> Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too busy
>>> fixating on Clinton's dick to take any action on those recommendations.

>> Easy to be wise after the event.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>> better place in short order.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>
>>
>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>
>>
>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>> trash.
>>
>>
>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>
>>
>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>
>>
>>> What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to
>>> happen at all.
>>
>>
>> Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
>> like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.
>>
>>
>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>
>>
>>> 9/11 was anticipated
>>
>>
>> Pig ignorant lie.
>>
>>
>>> and could have been prevented.
>>
>>
>> Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
>> would actually be stupid enough to go that route.
>>
>> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.

> Sure, flush the part which proves that 9/11 was anticipated,

Pigs arse it ever was you pathological lair.

Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kmrn8Fc4f33U1@individual.net...
> Lefty wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>> news:4kmm80Fc72e1U1@individual.net...
>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>> news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
>>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current
>>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is
>>>>>> meaningless,
>>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>>
>>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
>>>>> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
>>>>> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
>>>>> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
>>>>> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.
>>>
>>>> Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe
>>>> something
>>>> like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."
>>>
>>> That was BEFORE either had occurred, fuckwit.
>
>> Pretty lame.
>
> Yep, your line was just that.

You should be more graceful in defeat.
>
>> The FBI had a line on the 911 plotters.
>
> Like hell they ever did in the sense that they realised that
> there was any plan to crash 5 planes simultaneously into
> a variety of sites of national significance, let alone bring
> down the twin towers as spectacularly as actually happened.

So, only threats that are anticipated in their exact detail can be
stopped?
Or are you just flailing?
>
>>>> Wasn't it.
>>>> Which is it?
>
>>> Thats what you do after the first one, fuckwit.
>
>> You spend gigabucks fighting the last war, all the while serene in
>> the knowledge that any new threat is impossible to prevent?
>
> Nope, you do what is feasible to prevent another 9/11,
> and accept the fact that it is never going to be feasible
> to prevent some loons blowning up cars wherever they
> feel like it like is happening in Iraq today, and that its just
> not feasible to apply the sorts of searches and ID checks
> that are quite effective with heavy aircraft to all public
> transport and eliminate all risks of another London or Madrid.

You said "nope," but then answered in the affirmative.
>
>> Who's defeatist?
>
> Just another mindless stupid straw man.

It's just that you didn't get it.
If you're going to post crap, at least make it plausible.
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kms3gFd36kvU1@individual.net...
> Lefty wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>> news:4kmmf2Fd0k77U1@individual.net...
>>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current
>>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is
>>>>>> meaningless,
>>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>
>>>> That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time
>>>> before 9/11.
>>>
>>> Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
>>> enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
>>> some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
>>> clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.
>
>> The G8 summit in Italy, attended by Bush and Rice in the summer of
>> 2001, had defenses against precisely that threat.
>
> But didnt stop London and Madrid, did it ?

Which is a country mile from the point. You seemed to think only
"Japs" had used planes as missiles, or planned to.
Do you still think that, or is this more flailing?
>
>>> It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
>>> that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
>>> bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
>>> would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself
>>> either.
>
>>>> The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it
>>>> much
>>>> harder to hijack aircraft.
>
>>> The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like
>>> that.
>
>>>> Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too
>>>> busy
>>>> fixating on Clinton's dick to take any action on those
>>>> recommendations.
>
>>> Easy to be wise after the event.
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4kms5qFcg8agU1@individual.net...
> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>> better place in short order.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>> trash.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>
>>>
>>>> What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to
>>>> happen at all.
>>>
>>>
>>> Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
>>> like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>
>>>
>>>> 9/11 was anticipated
>>>
>>>
>>> Pig ignorant lie.
>>>
>>>
>>>> and could have been prevented.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
>>> would actually be stupid enough to go that route.
>>>
>>> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.
>
>> Sure, flush the part which proves that 9/11 was anticipated,
>
> Pigs arse it ever was you pathological lair.

Here it is again. You might consider changing your nym from "speed"
to something more apt - perhaps "snail's pace."

"In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American
Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating the hijacking
of airliners and use them as weapons to crash into targets and cause
mass casualties."

>
> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.

"In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks..." is not hindsight.

Defeatist.
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kms3gFd36kvU1@individual.net...
>> Lefty wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>> news:4kmmf2Fd0k77U1@individual.net...
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current
>>>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is
>>>>>>> meaningless,
>>>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>>
>>>>> That planes could be used as weapons was known for a long time
>>>>> before 9/11.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but it wasnt clear that anyone would actually be stupid
>>>> enough to kill themselves that way. While it was clear that
>>>> some stupid Japs had done that in the past, it wasnt at all
>>>> clear that some stupid rag heads would try it now.
>>
>>> The G8 summit in Italy, attended by Bush and Rice in the summer of
>>> 2001, had defenses against precisely that threat.

>> But didnt stop London and Madrid, did it ?

> Which is a country mile from the point.

Nope.

> You seemed to think only "Japs" had used planes as missiles,

Nope.

> or planned to. Do you still think that,

No still involved, since it never happened in the first place.

> or is this more flailing?

Just more of your pathetic excuse for bullshit.

>>>> It was certainly clear that some stupid rag heads would try
>>>> that truck bomb after quite a few US marines got blown to
>>>> bits in Beirut earlier, it wasnt clear that a home grown fuckwit
>>>> would actually be stupid enough to do that in the US itself
>>>> either.
>>
>>>>> The recommendations of the Gore Commission would have made it
>>>>> much
>>>>> harder to hijack aircraft.
>>
>>>> The commission didnt anticipate that the planes would be used like
>>>> that.
>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, the Republican-controlled Congress was much too
>>>>> busy
>>>>> fixating on Clinton's dick to take any action on those
>>>>> recommendations.
>>
>>>> Easy to be wise after the event.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kms5qFcg8agU1@individual.net...
>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
>>>>>>>>>>>> better place in short order.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to
>>>>> happen at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
>>>> like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 9/11 was anticipated
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pig ignorant lie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and could have been prevented.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
>>>> would actually be stupid enough to go that route.
>>>>
>>>> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.
>>
>>> Sure, flush the part which proves that 9/11 was anticipated,
>>
>> Pigs arse it ever was you pathological lair.

> Here it is again. You might consider changing your nym from "speed" to something more
> apt - perhaps "snail's pace."

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead, gutless.

> "In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense
> Command conducted exercises simulating the hijacking of airliners and use them as
> weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties."

And it was considered that the risk of that happening didnt
warrant the massive cost of avoiding that until it happened.

>> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.

> "In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks..." is not hindsight.

Never said it was. The hindsight involved realising that some
would actually be stupid enough to actually do that with 5 planes.

> Defeatist.

Fuckwit.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lefty wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:4kmrn8Fc4f33U1@individual.net...
>> Lefty wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>> news:4kmm80Fc72e1U1@individual.net...
>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>> news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
>>>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current
>>>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is
>>>>>>> meaningless,
>>>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort of
>>>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
>>>>>> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
>>>>>> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
>>>>>> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
>>>>>> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe
>>>>> something
>>>>> like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."
>>>>
>>>> That was BEFORE either had occurred, fuckwit.
>>
>>> Pretty lame.
>>
>> Yep, your line was just that.

> You should be more graceful in defeat.

Pathetic, really.

>>> The FBI had a line on the 911 plotters.

>> Like hell they ever did in the sense that they realised that
>> there was any plan to crash 5 planes simultaneously into
>> a variety of sites of national significance, let alone bring
>> down the twin towers as spectacularly as actually happened.

> So, only threats that are anticipated in their exact detail can be stopped?

Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that.

With any threat there is a tradeoff between the cost and effort
required to eliminate it and what might happen if you dont.

We dont bother to have the same level of checks of bags and
ID with public transport as we do with the airlines, for a reason.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that it just
isnt practical to eliminate any possibility of some fool stuffing
their car with explosives and blowing it up with them in it. Even
tho we know that some fools are doing that in Iraq right now.

> Or are you just flailing?

Or you couldnt bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

>>>>> Wasn't it.
>>>>> Which is it?

>>>> Thats what you do after the first one, fuckwit.

>>> You spend gigabucks fighting the last war, all the while serene in
>>> the knowledge that any new threat is impossible to prevent?

>> Nope, you do what is feasible to prevent another 9/11,
>> and accept the fact that it is never going to be feasible
>> to prevent some loons blowning up cars wherever they
>> feel like it like is happening in Iraq today, and that its just
>> not feasible to apply the sorts of searches and ID checks
>> that are quite effective with heavy aircraft to all public
>> transport and eliminate all risks of another London or Madrid.

> You said "nope," but then answered in the affirmative.

Lie.

>>> Who's defeatist?

>> Just another mindless stupid straw man.

> It's just that you didn't get it.

Nope.

> If you're going to post crap, at least make it plausible.

Pathetic, really.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Miss L. Toe wrote:

>> >
>> >> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>> >
>> > Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>> >
>> > If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>> > anticipated and prevented...
>>
>> bush,jr was warned....then went on vacation.
>>
>> It's been all downhill for America since
>
> Its was downhill for every colony after the brits left....

That's a crock. I think you mean "after the French left..."

--
Cheers,
Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\
I remember when everybody posted to Usenet with their real, deliverable
e-mail address. Of all the sins committed by the spammers, destroying
the viability of the open Internet was the worst.
(Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, news.admin.net-abuse.email)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >
> >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>amde@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I'm so sick of all these fake terrorist scares..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>New York City, Bali, Madrid, London, Mumbai...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=2262 5
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>There ya go, nothing to worry about, this whole Islamic terrrorism
> >>>>>>>thing is nothing but a political scam to get votes. Islam is a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>There is a great deal of truth in what you say.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>So you' dlike to believe that the victims in New York City,
> >>>>>Bali, Madrid, London, and Mumbai were all ficticious?
> >>>>>Would that make you feel better about the world?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> >>>>>>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> >>>>>>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> >>>>>>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> >>>>>>>you dead.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> >>>>>dangerous to you than the current US government?
> >>>>
> >>>>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Same old dodge, I see. You're afraid to answer
> >>>the question. Who do you think wants you dead,
> >>>the US government or Islamic extremists?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>You would be more comfortable in a polity run by
> >>>>>these Islamic extremists than you would be living
> >>>>>in the USA?
> >>>>
> >>>>Where did I say that? Same old strawman.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You avoid the question again, and again and again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>You can't control, nor completely understand the
> >>>>>Islamic extremists. Therefore you run back to
> >>>>>something you think you *can* control, the US
> >>>>>government...you kid yourself into thinking that
> >>>>>if you use your power to protest and vote and
> >>>>>change your government, all will be better with
> >>>>>the world. This belief protects you from having
> >>>>>to think about the fact that there are people in
> >>>>>the world who want you either dead or enslaved,
> >>>>>and don't care what changes you've made to
> >>>>>your government in your attempts to appease
> >>>>>them.
> >>>>
> >>>>Where did I say appease? Same old strawman.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>What's your master plan, then? Come on, show
> >>>me what a genius you are. What's your plan for
> >>>making the world - or at least yourself - safe from
> >>>people who want you dead simply because you
> >>>don't follow Allah? "Impeach Bush" isn't a plan,
> >>>since you haven't said what you'd do in his
> >>>stead. Get around your swallowing and spewing
> >>>venom and think for a change.
> >>
> >>I neither swallowed nor spewed venom. Don't judge others by your own
> >>shortcomings.
> >
> >
> > I judge you by what you write. If you want better, do better.
> >
> >
> >>There is absolutely no proof that anybody wants me dead just because I
> >>don't follow Allah.
> >
> >
> > Then you don't listen to Bin Laden or any of his underlings
> > when they post their rantings to the world. You
>
> But, I do. They say things about wanting the U.S. out of the Middle East.

I see you missed the parts about the US's only hope being
complete submission to Islam, and the parts about spreading
the caliphate to Spain and beyond. You ignore the facts that
make you uncomfortable.

> > ignore uncomfortable facts so that you can shout your
>
> What you call "uncomfortable facts" are your opinions.

You've repeatedly shown no ability to differentiate between
fact and opinion.

> > comfortable opinions as facts, imagine my surprise that
> > you shout down others because you think they are doing
> > so instead of you.
>
> I have shouted down nobody.

A lack of competence on your part, not a lack of effort.
Exactly what would be expected of you.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Lamont Cranston wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >
> >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Lamont Cranston wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Notan wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> >>>>>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> >>>>>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> >>>>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> >>>>>because they've got information and goals that you
> >>>>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> >>>>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> >>>>>major governments.
> >>>>
> >>>>The facts are otherwise.
> >>>
> >>>You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
> >>>Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
> >>>Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?
> >>
> >>No, the word I was looking for was the word that I used: facts. You,
> >>being a member of the Bush flock, wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in
> >>the face.
> >
> >
> > Thus providing evidence that you *don't* understand the
> > difference between a fact and an opinion. Thank you
> > for making that clear.
>
> What's clear is that you get your "facts" from the likes of George W.
> Bush, a chronic liar.

Lamont, I'd trust either Clinton as a source of
facts long before I'd pay any attention to you.
Think about that for a second.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:38:12 GMT, in alt.atheism
Leythos wrote in
:
>In article <44E5B527.F960C6FF@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
>notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
>> Leythos wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
>> > notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
>> > > jmcgill wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Notan wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>> > > >
>> > > > I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
>> > > > of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
>> > > > believe.
>> > >
>> > > That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
>> >
>> > The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
>> > and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
>> > the communist media wants you to believe.
>>
>> So, financially, security-wise, healthcare-wise, etc., we're really in
>> good shape... It's the media that's trying to make us look bad?
>
>I'm glad you agree. Other than National Debt, everything is better than
>what Clinton left us with.

You are delusional.

>Heck, I even started a company from scratch,
>no clients, 4 years ago, and have business all over the United States.

Good for you, but Bush made it much harder for you.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:
>
> In article <44E5B527.F960C6FF@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
> notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
> > Leythos wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
> > > notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
> > > > jmcgill wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Notan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
> > > > >
> > > > > I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
> > > > > of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
> > > > > believe.
> > > >
> > > > That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
> > >
> > > The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
> > > and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
> > > the communist media wants you to believe.
> >
> > So, financially, security-wise, healthcare-wise, etc., we're really in
> > good shape... It's the media that's trying to make us look bad?
>
> I'm glad you agree. Other than National Debt, everything is better than
> what Clinton left us with. Heck, I even started a company from scratch,
> no clients, 4 years ago, and have business all over the United States.

I'm sure the tens of thousands who have lost their jobs, the thousands who have
lost their lives, not to mention countless others, are as impressed with you as
the rest of the world is with this country and its current leadership.

Notan

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:59:10 GMT, in alt.atheism
Leythos wrote in
<28vFg.77593$Eh1.20201@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>:
>In article ,
>lunch@nofreelunch.us says...
>> On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:38:12 GMT, in alt.atheism
>> Leythos wrote in
>> :
>> >In article <44E5B527.F960C6FF@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
>> >notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
>> >> Leythos wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
>> >> > notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
>> >> > > jmcgill wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Notan wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
>> >> > > > of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
>> >> > > > believe.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
>> >> >
>> >> > The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
>> >> > and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
>> >> > the communist media wants you to believe.
>> >>
>> >> So, financially, security-wise, healthcare-wise, etc., we're really in
>> >> good shape... It's the media that's trying to make us look bad?
>> >
>> >I'm glad you agree. Other than National Debt, everything is better than
>> >what Clinton left us with.
>>
>> You are delusional.
>>
>> >Heck, I even started a company from scratch,
>> >no clients, 4 years ago, and have business all over the United States.
>>
>> Good for you, but Bush made it much harder for you.
>
>LOL, as Clinton permitted, with his group in power, companies to farm
>out work, give work/jobs to Mexico and other countries, etc... In the
>final years of Clinton hundreds of thousand of technical workers were
>replaced by foreigners and during the Bush years I've started a tech
>company, providing services all over the USA (and India) from the USA,
>in some of the highest unemployment areas - Bush made things a lot
>easier for the common business person.

Nice story, too bad for you its false. Too bad for you that you know its
false.

>Oh, not to mention that Clinton did nothing as Americans were killed by
>terrorists all over the world and left the country in a decline and
>ready for an attack when he turned it over to Bush.

You know that is a lie, of course, but Republicans have so fouled up
that you cannot say anything true about them that wouldn't embarrass
you. Why do you still defend their incompetence?

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Notan wrote:
>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>> because they've got information and goals that you
>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>> major governments.
>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?

The answer depends upon what the task is that the Bush regime is doing.
If it's a question of fomenting terrorism and slaughtering children and
committing massive treason against America, the Bush regime is doing a
great job. If it's a question of upholding the Constitution and abiding
by the laws of civilized nations, the Bush regime are mass baby killers.

---
Blow up Glen Canyon Dam.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote:
>Lamont Cranston wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote

>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>Has to happen on someone's, stupid.

And Osama waited for Bush who deliberately gutted the nation's
security programs and ignored every FBI and CIA warning about
bin Laden's efforts.

This fascist regime _wanted_ September 11'th to happen. It has
worked wopnders on insane traitors like you.

---
"I've stood with President Bush in the war on terrorism."
Minnesota Representative Mark Kennedy, baby killing traitor.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fredric L. Rice wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.

>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.

> And Osama waited for Bush who deliberately
> gutted the nation's security programs

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

What they did would have worked just as well under Slick's watch.

> and ignored every FBI and CIA warning about bin Laden's efforts.

Like hell they did. They just didnt realise that those fools were
prepared to kill themselves in such numbers to do that sort of
thing or that they could even organise it that effectively either.

> This fascist regime _wanted_ September 11'th to happen.

SURE they did. And you wouldnt know what a fascist
regime was if it bit you on your lard arse anyway.

> It has worked wopnders on insane traitors like you.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Slick did fuck all about bin Laden.

Even now, there is quite a bit that just isnt feasible to do much about.

Its perfectly possible to put a nuke into a shipping container
and blow it up as the ship enters a major US port. It just aint
feasible to inspect all of those offshore before they can get
close enough to be a problem.

Its perfectly possible to had a semi with explosives ala Oklahoma
and flick the switch where its going to cause the maximum of chaos.
Its just not feasible to inspect all trucks and cars to avoid that either.

In spades with mass public transport to avoid the likes of London and Madrid.

Froth at the mouth all you like, clown, its clear why
you get no say what so ever on anything at all, ever.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fredric L. Rice wrote:
> Notan wrote:
>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>> major governments.
>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>
> The answer depends upon what the task is that the Bush regime is
> doing. If it's a question of fomenting terrorism and slaughtering
> children and committing massive treason against America, the Bush
> regime is doing a great job. If it's a question of upholding the
> Constitution and abiding by the laws of civilized nations, the Bush
> regime are mass baby killers.

Bet that will have the shrub and rummy slashing
their wrists as soon as they read your post.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Fred Liken" writes:

>>>Fred Liken wrote:
>>>> wrote in message
>>>> news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> >
>>>> > Unruh wrote:
>>>> >> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the
>>>> >> revolution?
>>>> >
>>>> > No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
>>>> > political power, but to eradicate political power.
>>>>
>>>> And replace it with another political power...
>>
>>>You'd do well to buy a clue.

>lol. Classic. Everything will run great because the gangsters will beat
>their guns into business suits. lol. We don't live in the 18th century.

And the sewage will run into the self run processing plants on its own.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com writes:

>Notan wrote:
>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
>> > and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
>> > would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>>
>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.

>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>because they've got information and goals that you
>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>major governments.

??? History was not your strong subject was it.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com writes:

>EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > Notan wrote:
>> >
>> >>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
>> >>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
>> >>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
>> >>
>> >>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>> >
>> >
>> > They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>> > not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>> > because they've got information and goals that you
>> > don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>> > think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>> > major governments.
>>
>> Except in the USA! (You don't REALLY consider the Shrub
>> "rational", do you?)

>Certainly. I'm simply aware of the fact that rational people
>don't always agree, due to differences in information, goals,
>or simply perspective. Partisan extremism on either side
>is no evidence of irrationality on the part of the Bush
>administration.

>Are you really convinced that a person incapable of
>rational thought could perform the necessary actions
>required to attain a governorship and then a presidency?
>Go on and on all you like about his mental limitations,
>eventually you'll realize that he's the one sitting in the
>Oval Office ignoring your opinion instead of vice versa,
>and he didn't get there by accident.


You could say the same for those guys sitting the pilot seats of those
planes.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Unruh wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com writes:
> >Are you really convinced that a person incapable of
> >rational thought could perform the necessary actions
> >required to attain a governorship and then a presidency?
> >Go on and on all you like about his mental limitations,
> >eventually you'll realize that he's the one sitting in the
> >Oval Office ignoring your opinion instead of vice versa,
> >and he didn't get there by accident.
>
>
> You could say the same for those guys sitting the pilot seats of those
> planes.

They only had to operate in terms of a few dozen people.
That's a far cry from the groups presidents and governors
have to work with.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Unruh wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com writes:
>
> >Notan wrote:
> >> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> >> > and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> >> > would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >>
> >> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
> >They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> >not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> >because they've got information and goals that you
> >don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> >think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> >major governments.
>
> ??? History was not your strong subject was it.

You're ignoring the majority of my post because it
presents conclusions you're uncomfortable with.
In the extreme case, it is possible to proceed
rationally from an insane basis towards a goal
that most people would identify as mad. In the
less extreme case - which is what we have in
the US - there are a number of very vocal
Americans who believe that the US government
is irrational simply because they don't accept
the basis and goals of the current administration
as reasonable, they don't realize that they're
talking about two entirely different things.

If you are unwilling to accept your opponent as
rational, then there's no reason to examine their
perspective or goals, it makes it easier to just
dismiss them altogether - and that really gets
you nowhere, since you comfort yourself with
the idea that they are somehow lesser in
intellect than you instead of understanding
what they're up to.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:
> In article ,
> bearclaw@cruller.invalid says...
> > In article ,
> > Leythos wrote:
> >
> > > That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
> > > strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of evaluating
> > > their own belief.
> >
> > Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.
>
> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?
>
> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say that
> many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to honor any
> of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.
>

Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism? Even the Bush
Administration backed off that lie. And you have to be on some serious
drugs to believe that the cause of the current Iraq war was anyone
other than the US government.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> you dead.
>

It's nice to see fuckwits like yourself using the false dichotomy
falacy. You have to be a total idiot to not see how Bush and his
chronies do indeed use the overblown hype of a terrorist attack to
score political points. Bush is just as bad (and in many cases worse)
than these "Islamofascists" (whatever the fuck that word means).

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fred Liken wrote:
> >>Fred Liken wrote:
> >>> wrote in message
> >>> news:1155576307.348121.83190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >>> >
> >>> > Unruh wrote:
> >>> >> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the
> >>> >> revolution?
> >>> >
> >>> > No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> >>> > political power, but to eradicate political power.
> >>>
> >>> And replace it with another political power...
> >
> >>You'd do well to buy a clue.
>
> lol. Classic. Everything will run great because the gangsters will beat
> their guns into business suits.

You still haven't bought a clue, I see.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Carole Allen wrote:
> >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:25:08 -0700, drkangel666 wrote:
> >> Unruh wrote:
> >>> And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
> >>
> >> No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> >> political power, but to eradicate political power.
> >> No Gods. No Masters.
> >
> >
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:23:45 +0200, NO_spamm
> wrote:>
> So, everyone behaves the same and no one has the urge to take some
> >power? Oh, I see, everybody is SO full of the nice world that they do not
> >even have this urge, right?
> >
> >Oh, and, euh, who will take the lead in rooting out the political power?
> >
> >Keep on dreaming...
>
> Several years back when the self-proclaimed anarchists came to Seattle
> during the WTO riots, er meetings, the irony was that they had
> planning and organizational meetings ahead of time.

Nothing ironic because anarchists aren't against organization. They're
against governments. What is ironic is that you would advertise your
ignorance like this and not even realize you're being ignorant.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Mattern wrote:
> Carole Allen wrote:
> >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:25:08 -0700, drkangel666 wrote:
> >>
> >>>Unruh wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>And who would replace the incompetent people with after the revolution?
> >>>
> >>>No one. The aim of the anarchist social revolution is not to take
> >>>political power, but to eradicate political power.
> >>>No Gods. No Masters.
> >>
> >>
> > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:23:45 +0200, NO_spamm
> > wrote:>
> > So, everyone behaves the same and no one has the urge to take some
> >
> >>power? Oh, I see, everybody is SO full of the nice world that they do not
> >>even have this urge, right?
> >>
> >>Oh, and, euh, who will take the lead in rooting out the political power?
> >>
> >>Keep on dreaming...
> >
> >
> > Several years back when the self-proclaimed anarchists came to Seattle
> > during the WTO riots, er meetings, the irony was that they had
> > planning and organizational meetings ahead of time. Oxymoron alert.
>
> I don't think anarchy is terribly workable either, but let's
> be fair. Anarchists are not and have never been against organization,
> or even following orders. They simply object to being made a part
> of an organization or made to follow orders *without their consent*.

Indeed. O' course, it's a lot more comfortable for the terminally
ignorant to assume all anarchists fall into a strawman which opposes
any form of organization.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> > > in the Qu'ran that says so.
> > >
> > > No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> > > and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> > > you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> > > you dead.
> >
> > Same old strawman arguments, I see.
>
> So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> dangerous to you than the current US government?

Why of course. The US government can imprison him, takes nearly half
of what he earns, and starts wars which cause these Islamic extremists
to hate us in the first place.

But you're still a moron using strawman arguments, in any case.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> Notan wrote:
> > Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> > > and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> > > would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> >
> > It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>
> They are thinking and behaving rationally.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

In comp.security.misc Chris Hayes wrote:
> Nothing ironic because anarchists aren't against organization. They're
> against governments.

How can an organization exist without leadership?

Yours,
VB.
--
Viel schlimmer als die Implementation von PHP ist jedoch das Design.

Rudolf Polzer in de.comp.security.misc

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> Lamont Cranston wrote:
> > firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> > >
> > >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Notan wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> > >>>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> > >>>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> > >>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> > >>>because they've got information and goals that you
> > >>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> > >>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> > >>>major governments.
> > >>
> > >>The facts are otherwise.
> > >
> > > You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
> > > Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
> > > Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?
> >
> > No, the word I was looking for was the word that I used: facts. You,
> > being a member of the Bush flock, wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in
> > the face.
>
> Thus providing evidence that you *don't* understand the
> difference between a fact and an opinion.

You know, it's not a really good idea for you to lie in the Age of
Google. Nobody is being fooled by your dishonest snippage and lies,
kiddo.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:
> Lamont Cranston wrote:
> > Rod Speed wrote:
> >
> >> Lamont Cranston wrote
> >>
> >>> Rod Speed wrote
> >>>
> >>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>> Rod Speed wrote
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Notan wrote
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Notan wrote
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start
> >>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or
> >>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would become a
> >>>>>>>>>> better place in short order.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> >>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> >>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
> >>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> >>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> >>>>>>>> major governments.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
> >>>>>> trash.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
> >>
> >>
> >>> What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to
> >>> happen at all.
> >>
> >>
> >> Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
> >> like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
> >>>> anticipated and prevented...
> >>
> >>
> >>> 9/11 was anticipated
> >>
> >>
> >> Pig ignorant lie.
> >>
> >>
> >>> and could have been prevented.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
> >> would actually be stupid enough to go that route.
> >>
> >> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.
>
> > Sure, flush the part which proves that 9/11 was anticipated,
>
> Pigs arse it ever was you pathological lair.
>

The only one that is lying is you. Google proves as much. That's why
you continue to snip his posts in a pathetic attempt to avoid admitting
that you have been owned.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:
> In article <44E5B527.F960C6FF@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
> notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
> > Leythos wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
> > > notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
> > > > jmcgill wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Notan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
> > > > >
> > > > > I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
> > > > > of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
> > > > > believe.
> > > >
> > > > That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
> > >
> > > The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
> > > and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
> > > the communist media wants you to believe.
> >
> > So, financially, security-wise, healthcare-wise, etc., we're really in
> > good shape... It's the media that's trying to make us look bad?
>
> I'm glad you agree. Other than National Debt, everything is better than
> what Clinton left us with.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What drugs are you on? Seriously.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

>> I can honestly say that many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before
>> they failed to honor any of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.
>
> Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism? Even the Bush
> Administration backed off that lie. And you have to be on some
> serious drugs to believe that the cause of the current Iraq war was
> anyone other than the US government.

The OP is an arrogant buffoon. The 9/11 commission, as impartial
a group as exists in the government, concluded that there were no
ties to terrorism before Bush invaded. Not to mention the fact that
both the 9/11 commission and former top US weapons inspector
David Kay concluded that there were no WMD in Iraq. A Harris
Poll was just conducted asking the question of whether Iraq had
WMD. In 2005 36% of people thought Iraq did. Now 50% of
people think Iraq did. This can only be explained by politics and
lots of gullible people listening to talk radio. Use Google to search
on "36% 50% WMD Iraq" to find articles on this Harris Poll.
The Washington Post URL is
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08 /07/AR2006080700189.html

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos Bug-brain wrote:
> In article <1156072294.938091.215400@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> hayes12@fadmail.com says...
>> Leythos wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>> bearclaw@cruller.invalid says...
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Leythos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
>>>>> strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of evaluating
>>>>> their own belief.
>>>> Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.
>>> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?
>>>
>>> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say that
>>> many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to honor any
>>> of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.
>>>
>> Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism? Even the Bush
>> Administration backed off that lie. And you have to be on some serious
>> drugs to believe that the cause of the current Iraq war was anyone
>> other than the US government.
>
> Got any proof that they didn't support Terrorism?
>
> Got any proof of anything you claim?

So, show me the proof that you do not have a parasitic alien-being
living inside your brain that's making you have these bouts of selective
amnesia. SHOW ME THE CITE, BUG-INFESTED BRAIN! Ha! Did not think you could.

> Iraq caused Iraq - they refused to follow the UN Mandates for 10+ years,
> kept building their weapons program, kept refusing to allow inspections
> take place according to the rules....

Still keeping the lie alive?

You mean inspectors like Hans Blix and the IAEA Team that we told to
leave Iraq or else we could not guarantee their safety? ["We could not
guarantee their safety," is diplo-speak for "You'll be our next target
as soon we murder the people at the Al-Jazeera studio in Baghdad."]

Here, I will give a cite. Warning: It's from known liars.

Timeline of UN-Iraq-Coalition Activity 1991-2002

http://lists.state.gov/SCRIPTS/WA-USIAINFO.EXE?A2=ind0302d&L =us-iraqpolicy&H=1&O=D&P=1553

Show me where it says Iraq refused to comply with UN mandates.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:

>In article <44E5692F.341DFAF5@ddress.thatcanbespammed>,
>notan@ddress.thatcanbespammed says...
>
>
>>jmcgill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Notan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I would suggest that the current government is closer to an expression
>>>of the consensed general will of the people, than some would like to
>>>believe.
>>>
>>>
>>That might be true, but it still doesn't answer my question.
>>
>>
>
>The current leadership, majority, not minority, is doing a very good job
>and has major support of the overall American population - despite what
>the communist media wants you to believe.
>
>
>
You really need to watch / get news from a source other than FOX.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:

>>false.
>>
>>
>
>You can keep believing it's false but there are a LOT of people that say
>it's true, not to mention all of the actual laws Clinton put into place
>to make this possible.
>
>
>

At least 22% and maybe 25% agree. The rest........well...............

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Notan wrote:

>I'm sure the tens of thousands who have lost their jobs, the thousands who have
>lost their lives, not to mention countless others, are as impressed with you as
>the rest of the world is with this country and its current leadership.
>
>Notan
>
>


Walmart employees are happy - the 100's of thousands of them who
represent most all the job growth under GW.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fredric L. Rice wrote:

>
>
>The answer depends upon what the task is that the Bush regime is doing.
>If it's a question of fomenting terrorism and slaughtering children and
>committing massive treason against America, the Bush regime is doing a
>great job.
>
>


Yep - he's done a great job fueling terrorism plus there are likely more
children being slaughtered / bombed today than prior to his invasion
into Iraq.

A definite growth industry growing by the day under GW policies.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote:
>Fredric L. Rice wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local trash.
>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>> And Osama waited for Bush who deliberately
>> gutted the nation's security programs
>Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

And the Christofascist rightard admits he's got nothing.

---
"I've stood with President Bush in the war on terrorism."
Minnesota Representative Mark Kennedy, baby killing traitor.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Leythos wrote:
> In article <1156072294.938091.215400@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> hayes12@fadmail.com says...
>>
>> Leythos wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>> bearclaw@cruller.invalid says...
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Leythos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you
>>>>> give strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of
>>>>> evaluating their own belief.
>>>>
>>>> Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.
>>>
>>> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?
>>>
>>> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say
>>> that many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to
>>> honor any of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.
>>>
>>
>> Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism? Even the Bush
>> Administration backed off that lie. And you have to be on some
>> serious drugs to believe that the cause of the current Iraq war was
>> anyone other than the US government.
>
> Got any proof that they didn't support Terrorism?
>
> Got any proof of anything you claim?
>
> Iraq caused Iraq - they refused to follow the UN Mandates for 10+
> years, kept building their weapons program, kept refusing to allow
> inspections take place according to the rules....


http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/bs/

Fear is old hat. It doesn't sell anymore.
bush,jr's lies don;t fly any more

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote
> Leythos wrote
>> bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote
>>> Leythos wrote

>>>> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
>>>> strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of
>>>> evaluating their own belief.

>>> Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.

>> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?

>> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say
>> that many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to
>> honor any of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.

> Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism?

Yep, most obviously the financial support for those left
behind by the terminal fuckwits that blew themselves
to bits taking others with them in Isreal.

> Even the Bush Administration backed off that lie.

Like hell they ever did on that financial support.

> And you have to be on some serious drugs to believe that the cause
> of the current Iraq war was anyone other than the US government.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Lamont Cranston wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>> start thinking and behaving rationally, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>> religiously or emotionally, then I would expect the world
>>>>>>>>>>>> would become a better place in short order.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good job?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What a brilliant fucking comment. Actually, it did not have to
>>>>> happen at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Easy to claim. Maybe you would care to explain just how something
>>>> like London or Madrid can be completely eliminated now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can be
>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 9/11 was anticipated
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pig ignorant lie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and could have been prevented.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, after the event when it became clear that someone
>>>> would actually be stupid enough to go that route.
>>>>
>>>> Reams of your mindless 20/20 hindsight flushed where it belongs.
>>
>>> Sure, flush the part which proves that 9/11 was anticipated,
>>
>> Pigs arse it ever was you pathological lair.

> The only one that is lying is you.

You wouldnt know what a lie was if it bit you on your lard arse, child.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Fredric L. Rice wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote:
>> Fredric L. Rice wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the local
>>>>>> trash.
>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current government.
>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>> And Osama waited for Bush who deliberately
>>> gutted the nation's security programs
>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>
> And the Christofascist rightard admits he's got nothing.

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

> Follow forward, to where the interviewed inspectors that clearly state
> that they were not permitted access to some locations, where they
> were blocked from access for many days from other locations, etc...
>
> Read the report yourself and not what the WP wants you to believe.

The WP was only the last report I have read. I read lots of sources,
including BBC News. No WMD were ever found, were they?

> Don't be a sheep - read the report yourself.

Don't be a ditto-head; read actual news sources instead of biased
opinions like Rush and Fox News.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Rod Speed wrote:
> Chris Hayes wrote
> > Leythos wrote
> >> bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote
> >>> Leythos wrote
>
> >>>> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you give
> >>>> strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of
> >>>> evaluating their own belief.
>
> >>> Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.
>
> >> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?
>
> >> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say
> >> that many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to
> >> honor any of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.
>
> > Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism?
>
> Yep, most obviously the financial support for those left
> behind by the terminal fuckwits that blew themselves
> to bits taking others with them in Isreal.
>

Cite it, 'tard boy. You have no credibility.

> > Even the Bush Administration backed off that lie.
>
> Like hell they ever did on that financial support.
>

They certainly DID back off that lie. You really need to lay off the
drugs, hump.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Chris Hayes wrote
>>> Leythos wrote
>>>> bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote
>>>>> Leythos wrote

>>>>>> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them,
>>>>>> or if you give strong evidence they are wrong, they
>>>>>> attack you instead of evaluating their own belief.

>>>>> Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.

>>>> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?

>>>> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly
>>>> say that many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they
>>>> failed to honor any of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.

>>> Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism?

>> Yep, most obviously the financial support for those left
>> behind by the terminal fuckwits that blew themselves
>> to bits taking others with them in Isreal.

> Cite it,

Go and fuck yourself, child.

>>> Even the Bush Administration backed off that lie.

>> Like hell they ever did on that financial support.

> They certainly DID back off that lie.

Your bare faced lie.

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> > > firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lamont Cranston wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>Notan wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>If the US were the only nation in the world to suddenly start thinking
> > > >>>>>and behaving rationally, instead of religiously or emotionally, then I
> > > >>>>>would expect the world would become a better place in short order.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
> > > >>>not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
> > > >>>because they've got information and goals that you
> > > >>>don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
> > > >>>think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
> > > >>>major governments.
> > > >>
> > > >>The facts are otherwise.
> > > >
> > > > You've previously demonstrated your grasp of "facts",
> > > > Lamont - and I was somewhat less than impressed.
> > > > Perhaps the word you were looking for was "opinions"?
> > >
> > > No, the word I was looking for was the word that I used: facts. You,
> > > being a member of the Bush flock, wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in
> > > the face.
> >
> > Thus providing evidence that you *don't* understand the
> > difference between a fact and an opinion.
>
> You know, it's not a really good idea for you to lie in the Age of
> Google. Nobody is being fooled by your dishonest snippage and lies,
> kiddo.

And another "kiddo" who doesn't understand the difference
between a fact and an opinion chimes in. Here's a hint,
"kiddo", calling someone's opinion a "lie" isn't a great
way to convince other people that you're a beacon of wisdom.
I say "other people", because apparently you've done a
bang-up job of convincing yourself.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
> > > > in the Qu'ran that says so.
> > > >
> > > > No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> > > > and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> > > > you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> > > > you dead.
> > >
> > > Same old strawman arguments, I see.
> >
> > So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
> > dangerous to you than the current US government?
>
> Why of course. The US government can imprison him, takes nearly half
> of what he earns, and starts wars which cause these Islamic extremists
> to hate us in the first place.
>
> But you're still a moron

Your opinion, and worth every penny I paid for it.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

Chris Hayes wrote:
> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
> > and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
> > you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
> > you dead.
> >
>
> It's nice to see fuckwits

If you want to convince me that you're worth listening
to, you'll have to do far better than that.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:

> Chris Hayes wrote:
>
>>firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>religion of peace, there's a quote you can take out of context
>>>>>in the Qu'ran that says so.
>>>>>
>>>>>No matter how much you hate the Bush administration
>>>>>and love the Islamofacists, it really should be evident to
>>>>>you by now which group is most fervent about wanting
>>>>>you dead.
>>>>
>>>>Same old strawman arguments, I see.
>>>
>>>So it is your opinion that Islamic extremists are less
>>>dangerous to you than the current US government?
>>
>>Why of course. The US government can imprison him, takes nearly half
>>of what he earns, and starts wars which cause these Islamic extremists
>>to hate us in the first place.
>>
>>But you're still a moron
>
>
> Your opinion, and worth every penny I paid for it.

You have proven beyond all doubt that you are a moron, so it is now a fact.

>
> --
> Walt Smith
> Firelock on DALNet
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:4krp94FdhuqpU1@individual.net...
> Chris Hayes wrote
>> Leythos wrote
>>> bearclaw@cruller.invalid wrote
>>>> Leythos wrote
>
>>>>> That's how kooks work, if you don't agree with them, or if you
>>>>> give
>>>>> strong evidence they are wrong, they attack you instead of
>>>>> evaluating their own belief.
>
>>>> Which pretty much describes how the U.S. attacked Iraq.
>
>>> How many countries have you spent any amount of time in?
>
>>> As an American, and looking like a non-Muslim, I can honestly say
>>> that many Terrorist factions existed in Iraq before they failed to
>>> honor any of the UN Resolutions and caused this war.
>
>> Got evidence that Iraq supported terrorism?
>
> Yep, most obviously the financial support for those left
> behind by the terminal fuckwits that blew themselves
> to bits taking others with them in Isreal.

And that's your idea of fighting terrorism?
You might as well run up the white flag, if you're going to justify a
$2 trillion war, an open-ended committment, tens upon tens of
thousands of casualties and civil war in the name of cutting off
funding for a few dozen suicide bombers who have never targeted the
US.
>
>> Even the Bush Administration backed off that lie.
>
> Like hell they ever did on that financial support.
>
>> And you have to be on some serious drugs to believe that the cause
>> of the current Iraq war was anyone other than the US government.
>
>
>

Re: It"s a fake terrorist scare, folks

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:44e649eb$0$315$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net .au...
> Lefty wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>> news:4kmrn8Fc4f33U1@individual.net...
>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>> news:4kmm80Fc72e1U1@individual.net...
>>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4kmj25Fcv248U1@individual.net...
>>>>>>> Lefty wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4kmf4kFcri2fU1@individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> Lamont Cranston wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> firelock_ny@hotmail.com wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Notan wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the US were the only nation in the world to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suddenly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking and behaving rationally, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religiously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotionally, then I would expect the world would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place in short order.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not "the US," it's the LEADERS(?) of the US.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are thinking and behaving rationally. They're just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not reacting how your emotions tell you they should,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because they've got information and goals that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand. Make no mistake, people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think rationally don't rise to positions of control in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> major governments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying the current government is doing a good
>>>>>>>>>>>> job?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, there aint been another since 9/11 except by the
>>>>>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>>>>>> trash.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only 9/11 occurred on the watch of the current
>>>>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Has to happen on someone's, stupid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you seriously believe something like that or Oklahoma can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> anticipated and prevented...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then all this bluster about "fighting them there" is
>>>>>>>> meaningless,
>>>>>>>> since such attacks cannot be prevented?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Presumably you actually are that stupid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post 9/11 it was obvious to anyone with a clue that that sort
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> thing could be done, so anyone with a clue makes it harder to
>>>>>>> hijack aircraft and makes it harder to deliberately crash them
>>>>>>> into what matters by making it impossible to get up the front
>>>>>>> and be able to drive the plane etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Isrealis didnt realise the problem with aircraft hijacking
>>>>>>> initially, but when they did, no one has been able to hijack
>>>>>>> one of theirs since, over quite a few decades now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed
>>>>>>> that its much harder to drive a truck up to the front
>>>>>>> of anything that matters post Oklahoma too.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but it was you who said: "...If you seriously believe
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> like that or Oklahoma can be anticipated and prevented..."
>>>>>
>>>>> That was BEFORE either had occurred, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>> Pretty lame.
>>>
>>> Yep, your line was just that.
>
>> You should be more graceful in defeat.
>
> Pathetic, really.
>
>>>> The FBI had a line on the 911 plotters.
>
>>> Like hell they ever did in the sense that they realised that
>>> there was any plan to crash 5 planes simultaneously into
>>> a variety of sites of national significance, let alone bring
>>> down the twin towers as spectacularly as actually happened.
>
>> So, only threats that are anticipated in their exact detail can be
>> stopped?
>
> Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like
> that.

The line the FBI had was that the hijackers were learning to fly
airplanes.
>
> With any threat there is a tradeoff between the cost and effort
> required to eliminate it and what might happen if you dont.

So, the FBI shouldn't pursue anyone planning to blow himself up in a
Starbucks?
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
>
> We dont bother to have the same level of checks of bags and
> ID with public transport as we do with the airlines, for a reason.


>
> Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that it just
> isnt practical to eliminate any possibility of some fool stuffing
> their car with explosives and blowing it up with them in it. Even
> tho we know that some fools are doing that in Iraq right now.

We haven't stopped the violence in Iraq because we can't.

>
>> Or are you just flailing?
>
> Or you couldnt bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.


>
>>>>>> Wasn't it.
>>>>>> Which is it?
>
>>>>> Thats what you do after the first one, fuckwit.
>
>>>> You spend gigabucks fighting the last war, all the while serene
>>>> in
>>>> the knowledge that any new threat is impossible to prevent?
>
>>> Nope, you do what is feasible to prevent another 9/11,
>>> and accept the fact that it is never going to be feasible
>>> to prevent some loons blowning up cars wherever they
>>> feel like it like is happening in Iraq today, and that its just
>>> not feasible to apply the sorts of searches and ID checks
>>> that are quite effective with heavy aircraft to all public
>>> transport and eliminate all risks of another London or Madrid.
>
>> You said "nope," but then answered in the affirmative.
>
> Lie.

Then refute, genius.
>
>>>> Who's defeatist?
>
>>> Just another mindless stupid straw man.
>
>> It's just that you didn't get it.
>
> Nope.
>
>> If you're going to post crap, at least make it plausible.
>
> Pathetic, really.

If you're going to post crap, at least make it plausible.
>
>
>