Considered Spam
am 03.09.2006 21:46:46 von yonido
Hello,
I have developed a new mail service in which mail flow is:
users send mail to "someuser AT myserver.com". my server process it
(changes the mail body, lets say it "cleans it") - and forwards it to
the real user's email (which he has given me upon registration) -
"sameuser AT yahoo.com".
This acts like bigfoot.com if you're familiar with it, just that it
adds some processing to the message.
any ISP smart enough, like yahoo/hotmail - checks if the originating
sending smtp domain (myserver.com) == recipients domain (yahoo.com),
and there it fails - thus, marking the mails as spam.
I think this is the reason why my mails are considered spam.
With bigfoot it doesn't happen, but it acts EXACTLY the same.
any ideas what i can do?
thx.
Re: Considered Spam
am 03.09.2006 23:25:46 von Sam
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yonido@gmail.com writes:
> Hello,
> I have developed a new mail service in which mail flow is:
>
> users send mail to "someuser AT myserver.com". my server process it
> (changes the mail body, lets say it "cleans it") - and forwards it to
> the real user's email (which he has given me upon registration) -
> "sameuser AT yahoo.com".
>
> This acts like bigfoot.com if you're familiar with it, just that it
> adds some processing to the message.
>
> any ISP smart enough, like yahoo/hotmail - checks if the originating
> sending smtp domain (myserver.com) == recipients domain (yahoo.com),
> and there it fails - thus, marking the mails as spam.
>
> I think this is the reason why my mails are considered spam.
>
> With bigfoot it doesn't happen, but it acts EXACTLY the same.
> any ideas what i can do?
Although your description is a bit confusing, as I understand your question:
you are forwarding people's mail, and the recipient's mail server rejects
the forwarded mail because the message's return address does not belong to
you.
There are some defined Internet protocols by which any domain can publish
a list of IP addresses that are authorized to originate any mail naming the
domain as a return address. Verifying whether the message originated from
an authorized IP address is not mandatory, it is optional, but more and more
ISPs are doing it.
There's nothing that you can do. It is unquestionably anyone's prerogative
to publish a list of IP addresses authorized to originate mail with the
domain listed as a return address. It's their domain, they can do whatever
they want. It is also anyone's prerogative to configure their mail servers
any way it pleases them. If they choose to reject all mail that gives a
return address with a domain that publishes a list of authorized IP
addresses, and the mail does not originate from one of those IPs, then it is
their privilege to do so.
Your only option is to change the return address when you forward the mail.
Rather than keep the original return address, replace the original address
with one in your domain.
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Re: Considered Spam
am 03.09.2006 23:31:31 von Alan Connor
On comp.mail.misc, in <1157312806.456123.96000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "yonido@gmail.com" wrote:
http://slrn.sourceforge.net/docs/README.offline>
Yes. I consider posts from GG to be the equivalent of spam.
Don't read either.
Alan
--
If you replied to an article of mine and are wondering
why I didn't respond to you, the fact is that I didn't
even download your article. For an explanation, see:
http://home.earthlink.net/~alanconnor/newsfilter.html
Re: Re: Considered Spam - - Information about "Alan Connor"
am 03.09.2006 23:32:29 von unknown
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: Considered Spam
am 04.09.2006 00:57:09 von Sam
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Usenet Beavis writes:
> On comp.mail.misc, in <1157312806.456123.96000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "yonido@gmail.com" wrote:
>
>
Thank you for your kookfart, Beavis.
> Yes, I've met Bigfoot -- see http://tinyurl.com/23r3f
How's ol' Sasquatch doing, these days?
> Beavis
>
> --
> If you pointed your finger at me and laughed, and wondered why
> I'm such a Beavis, see http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/ac/
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Re: Considered Spam
am 05.09.2006 21:06:31 von yonido
Alright dont know wtf happened to this post - but here's my reply:
Sam, u misunderstood me, because of my own mistake:
The problem is not the return address, but the mail server that sends
the message in the name of someone else. here is the correct mail flow:
"dan at yahoo.com" sends a mail to "alex at myserver.com".
myserver.com processes the message, and forwards the message to alex's
REAL inbox which is "alex at yahoo.com".
now myserver.com's SMTP server negotiates with yahoo's smtp's server,
and sends a message on behalf of "dan at yahoo.com" (because that's
what the "from" field contains..). Now, as i understand - yahoo / any
other smart isp will detect this as spam, because the sending smtp's
address != the from user's domain.
bigfoot acts the same way exactly, excpet mail processing - but somehow
not considered spam.
Get the idea? what can i do? thanks.
Re: Considered Spam
am 06.09.2006 00:35:09 von Sam
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yonido@gmail.com writes:
> Alright dont know wtf happened to this post - but here's my reply:
>
> Sam, u misunderstood me, because of my own mistake:
> The problem is not the return address, but the mail server that sends
> the message in the name of someone else. here is the correct mail flow:
> "dan at yahoo.com" sends a mail to "alex at myserver.com".
> myserver.com processes the message, and forwards the message to alex's
> REAL inbox which is "alex at yahoo.com".
> now myserver.com's SMTP server negotiates with yahoo's smtp's server,
> and sends a message on behalf of "dan at yahoo.com" (because that's
> what the "from" field contains..).
Stop.
What the From: field is utterly and completely meaningless. Forget that it
exists. Wipe its existence from your memory. The return address of a
message has nothing to do with its From: header. I can send you an E-mail
message with a "From: president@whitehouse.gov" set, and if the recipient
refuses to accept the message, the bounce will go back to my own personal
mailbox.
You writing something like that, is a tell-tale clue that you're trying to
figure something out, but you are not really familiar with the underlying
protocols.
I think you need to take a time out, and educate yourself on the technical
fundamentals of SMTP, and other E-mail related technical documentation.
After you really understand how E-mail works you'll probably be in a better
position to figure out what you need to do.
> Now, as i understand - yahoo / any
> other smart isp will detect this as spam, because the sending smtp's
> address != the from user's domain.
And that's exactly what I told you. But, it looks like you did not
understand that, because you are not actually familiar with SMTP and SPF.
> bigfoot acts the same way exactly, excpet mail processing - but somehow
> not considered spam.
>
> Get the idea? what can i do? thanks.
Step 1: Educate yourself on how SMTP, and other related protocols (and,
preferrably, SPF and DNS) work.
Step 2: Like I told you in my last message, when you forward a message,
change its return address to point to your domain. That does NOT mean
changing its From: header. If you don't understand what I mean, just keep
reading RFC 2821 and RFC 2822 until you do. They are long documents, and
I'm not going to paraphrase the whole thing here or give you step-by-step
instructions. You'll need to read it, and figure it out yourself. If you
have some specific questions, regarding 2821 and 2822, this is the right
place to post them, but nobody's going to read them for you.
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Re: Considered Spam
am 11.09.2006 07:16:52 von SneakyP
Alan Connor wrote:
> On comp.mail.misc, in <1157312806.456123.96000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "yonido@gmail.com" wrote:
>
>
> http://slrn.sourceforge.net/docs/README.offline>
>
> Yes. I consider posts from GG to be the equivalent of spam.
>
> Don't read either.
>
> Alan
Just like you don't read this either.
Alan Connor is a known netK00K. Don't bother responding to him at all.
Re: Considered Spam
am 25.09.2006 19:50:27 von yonido
Hey Sam.
Just wanted to say thanks. As you can see - its been like 3 weeks so I
took your advice and read everything. Thanks for pointing me to the
right places.
Final solution is that
1- i published an SPF record
2- i am using VERP (aka SRS) to set rewrite the return path to
"original=domain.com@mydoma.com", and when bouncing im forward-bouncing
the message
seems like its working with most spam filters. some are more tough.
whats your opinion?
Sam wrote:
> yonido@gmail.com writes:
>
> > Alright dont know wtf happened to this post - but here's my reply:
> >
> > Sam, u misunderstood me, because of my own mistake:
> > The problem is not the return address, but the mail server that sends
> > the message in the name of someone else. here is the correct mail flow:
> > "dan at yahoo.com" sends a mail to "alex at myserver.com".
> > myserver.com processes the message, and forwards the message to alex's
> > REAL inbox which is "alex at yahoo.com".
> > now myserver.com's SMTP server negotiates with yahoo's smtp's server,
> > and sends a message on behalf of "dan at yahoo.com" (because that's
> > what the "from" field contains..).
>
> Stop.
>
> What the From: field is utterly and completely meaningless. Forget that it
> exists. Wipe its existence from your memory. The return address of a
> message has nothing to do with its From: header. I can send you an E-mail
> message with a "From: president@whitehouse.gov" set, and if the recipient
> refuses to accept the message, the bounce will go back to my own personal
> mailbox.
>
> You writing something like that, is a tell-tale clue that you're trying to
> figure something out, but you are not really familiar with the underlying
> protocols.
>
> I think you need to take a time out, and educate yourself on the technical
> fundamentals of SMTP, and other E-mail related technical documentation.
> After you really understand how E-mail works you'll probably be in a better
> position to figure out what you need to do.
>
> > Now, as i understand - yahoo / any
> > other smart isp will detect this as spam, because the sending smtp's
> > address != the from user's domain.
>
> And that's exactly what I told you. But, it looks like you did not
> understand that, because you are not actually familiar with SMTP and SPF.
>
> > bigfoot acts the same way exactly, excpet mail processing - but somehow
> > not considered spam.
> >
> > Get the idea? what can i do? thanks.
>
> Step 1: Educate yourself on how SMTP, and other related protocols (and,
> preferrably, SPF and DNS) work.
>
> Step 2: Like I told you in my last message, when you forward a message,
> change its return address to point to your domain. That does NOT mean
> changing its From: header. If you don't understand what I mean, just keep
> reading RFC 2821 and RFC 2822 until you do. They are long documents, and
> I'm not going to paraphrase the whole thing here or give you step-by-step
> instructions. You'll need to read it, and figure it out yourself. If you
> have some specific questions, regarding 2821 and 2822, this is the right
> place to post them, but nobody's going to read them for you.
>
>
> --=_mimegpg-commodore.email-scan.com-14783-1157495709-0004
> Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
> X-Google-AttachSize: 190