Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?

As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
approximately two or three times a week.

Currently I unplug the DSL router and plug it back in (it doesn't have an
on/off switch). Likewise, I unplug and plug back in my wireless router (why
don't these things have a simple on/off switch?). I turn off my Windows XP
computer. I leave the whole setup in the off state for various periods of
time (depending on what's going on that day). Then I reboot this entire
setup in sequence.

Often, (about three quarters of the time), that clears the old IP address
and gets me a new IP address where I can start fresh.

But, about a quarter of the time, I can't get connected to the Internet
when it all boots back up. I have to fiddle around for fifteen or twenty
minutes until I can get reconnected (killing the software firewall,
powering the dsl modem down, powering the linksys router down, removing the
cat5 cables, waiting 30 seconds, powering back up in sequence, rehooking
the cat5 cables, resetting the linksys router passwords and settings,
re-enabling the software firewall, etc.).

You guys are smarter than I am.
Is there an easier more reliable way to get a new IP address every day?
If there is ... pray tell ...

What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?

How you get assigned an IP address is up to your provider.

> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP
> address approximately two or three times a week.

Changing your IP address adds neither to your privacy nor to your
security. Just spare yourself the trouble.

cu
59cobalt
--
"If a software developer ever believes a rootkit is a necessary part of
their architecture they should go back and re-architect their solution."
--Mark Russinovich

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Aluxe wrote in
news:86jz6dn13k6c$.1d9wq7xx3uhdi.dlg@40tude.net:

> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?
>
> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP
> address approximately two or three times a week.
>
> Currently I unplug the DSL router and plug it back in (it doesn't have
> an on/off switch). Likewise, I unplug and plug back in my wireless
> router (why don't these things have a simple on/off switch?). I turn
> off my Windows XP computer. I leave the whole setup in the off state
> for various periods of time (depending on what's going on that day).
> Then I reboot this entire setup in sequence.
>
> Often, (about three quarters of the time), that clears the old IP
> address and gets me a new IP address where I can start fresh.
>
> But, about a quarter of the time, I can't get connected to the
> Internet when it all boots back up. I have to fiddle around for
> fifteen or twenty minutes until I can get reconnected (killing the
> software firewall, powering the dsl modem down, powering the linksys
> router down, removing the cat5 cables, waiting 30 seconds, powering
> back up in sequence, rehooking the cat5 cables, resetting the linksys
> router passwords and settings, re-enabling the software firewall,
> etc.).
>
> You guys are smarter than I am.
> Is there an easier more reliable way to get a new IP address every
> day? If there is ... pray tell ...
>
> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>

The way you're doing it is about the only way it can be done.

--
--- A dyslexic man walks into a bra ---

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

In article <86jz6dn13k6c$.1d9wq7xx3uhdi.dlg@40tude.net>,
Aluxe wrote:

>Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?

>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
>approximately two or three times a week.

>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?


Dial-up.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:29:03 GMT, Aluxe wrote:


>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
>approximately two or three times a week.

A pointless waste of time and effort, giving you neither privacy or
security.

What the hell do you think you're protecting yourself against ?
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:86jz6dn13k6c$.1d9wq7xx3uhdi.dlg@40tude.net...
> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?
>
> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
> approximately two or three times a week.
>
First - what do you seek to accomplish by the frequent changes?
Being on a different IP address each day (or week) does not, in itself, make
you any more (or any less) secure.
This kind of activity may lead your ISP to suspect that you are either
paranoid or have something illegal to hide.
If an attacker has found you either the damage has already been done, or
your security measures have prevented any damage and will prevent any future
damage from that attacker.
Take a close look at what security benefit you think you will achieve - and
'feeling more secure' does not count as a benefit


The IP address assignment is often a function of your MAC address and the IP
address lease policy of your ISP, and may not respond well to this kind of
manipulation. Also, check your router documentation - there is often a
command to obtain a new lease.

Stuart

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:86jz6dn13k6c$.1d9wq7xx3uhdi.dlg@40tude.net...
> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?
>
> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
> approximately two or three times a week.
>
> Currently I unplug the DSL router and plug it back in (it doesn't have an
> on/off switch). Likewise, I unplug and plug back in my wireless router
> (why
> don't these things have a simple on/off switch?). I turn off my Windows XP
> computer. I leave the whole setup in the off state for various periods of
> time (depending on what's going on that day). Then I reboot this entire
> setup in sequence.
>
> Often, (about three quarters of the time), that clears the old IP address
> and gets me a new IP address where I can start fresh.
>
> But, about a quarter of the time, I can't get connected to the Internet
> when it all boots back up. I have to fiddle around for fifteen or twenty
> minutes until I can get reconnected (killing the software firewall,
> powering the dsl modem down, powering the linksys router down, removing
> the
> cat5 cables, waiting 30 seconds, powering back up in sequence, rehooking
> the cat5 cables, resetting the linksys router passwords and settings,
> re-enabling the software firewall, etc.).
>
> You guys are smarter than I am.
> Is there an easier more reliable way to get a new IP address every day?
> If there is ... pray tell ...

All of that above with you trying to come-up with a new IP on some kind of
periodic basis with a machine or machines setting behind a Linksys router
is too ridiculous and funny.

>
> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?

You don't pay your bill, you get your service cut-off, you pay the bill,
you get service turned on and you will for sure get a new IP from the ISP.

Other than that, get a dial-up service which will change the IP each time
you dial-up to the ISP.

I suggest you stop turning things such as a modem and router on/off on some
kind of routine basis as it can only lead to equipment failure if you
continue it.

You don't have anything running on your set-up that would cause someone to
lock in on the IP and try to come past the router. Your set-up is below
small potatoes, the potatoes don't exist and no one cares. ;-)

Duane :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 17 Oct 2006 17:41:35 GMT, Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers wrote:
> In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
>> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?
>
> How you get assigned an IP address is up to your provider.

Hi Ansgar,
Thanks for your attempt at help. I appreciate your time.
My IP obviously "lends" me an IP address for a period of time. I can tell
because if I link right back up, I get the "same" IP address. But if I wait
long enough (say an hour) I get a "different" IP address.

All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
software) way.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:52:45 -0500, Lil' Abner wrote:
>> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>
> The way you're doing it is about the only way it can be done.

Hi Lil' Abner,
Thank you for taking the time to try to advise a fellow computer user.
I was hoping that there was a simple software way to lose the lease on the
IP address and then come back an hour later and regain the lease.

I have a few computers on the home network, so I wonder if I go to each and
do an ipconfig /release it would work?

Do you think that will work?

Is there a better software way to give up an IP address for an hour or two
and then ask for a new one from the ISP (no, dialup isn't an answer)?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>
> Dial-up.

I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
painfully slow compared to dsl.

Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:09:21 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
>>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
>>approximately two or three times a week.
>
> A pointless waste of time and effort, giving you neither privacy or
> security.

All security is pointless if you think your way.
There are big things you can do to raise security and little things.

Big things are obvious (like locking your car doors or not doing personal
email at work).

But, little security measures add up too.

Each little thing (like rolling up your windows or like driving a different
way to work each day) helps turn off the bad guy who is looking for an easy
steal.

Some of the little things, like changing your MAC address, WPA keys, login,
password, and IP address periodically are well known and often advocated.

Why do you think only big security measures are useful?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:ncxh1k01x61t$.qa8ivabmo4xo.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:52:45 -0500, Lil' Abner wrote:
> >> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
> >
> > The way you're doing it is about the only way it can be done.
>
> Hi Lil' Abner,
> Thank you for taking the time to try to advise a fellow computer user.
> I was hoping that there was a simple software way to lose the lease on the
> IP address and then come back an hour later and regain the lease.

A little script will do this.
>
> I have a few computers on the home network, so I wonder if I go to each
and
> do an ipconfig /release it would work?

You may get the same IP from your ISP
>
> Do you think that will work?
>
> Is there a better software way to give up an IP address for an hour or two
> and then ask for a new one from the ISP (no, dialup isn't an answer)?

The question remains, why do you think it is needed to get a different IP
address.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:28:24 GMT, Stuart Miller wrote:
> First - what do you seek to accomplish by the frequent changes?

Hi Stuart,

Thank you for taking the time to ask a probing question. I understand the
concept of security in that it comprises little things and big things
together.

Adding big things, like turning on a firewall, using strong encryption,
shutting down the computer when not in use, etc. are, of course, additive
to security.

Little things, like changing the password, changing the MAC address,
changing the SSID, changing the IP address, etc., are also additive to
security.

The whole point is to make the bad guys do more work to follow your
footsteps and invade on your privacy.

For example, I seal my snail mail. I lick that horrid tasting envelope and
I shut it down tight. Do I think that will stop a determined snooper. No
way. But I do it as a "little thing" to enhance my security.

Anyone who seals their envelope should understand why I'd want to change my
IP address periodically.

The question is "What is the easiest way to release that lease on the IP
address such that it is easy to regain a new IP address in a few hours'
time?".

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:leshe4070rht.1xgo9svytfrdm.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 17 Oct 2006 17:41:35 GMT, Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers wrote:
> > In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
> >> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?
> >
> > How you get assigned an IP address is up to your provider.
>
> Hi Ansgar,
> Thanks for your attempt at help. I appreciate your time.
> My IP obviously "lends" me an IP address for a period of time. I can tell
> because if I link right back up, I get the "same" IP address. But if I
wait
> long enough (say an hour) I get a "different" IP address.
>
> All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
> software) way.

There is really no need to do that.
What are you trying to accomplish, we may have a different solution for you.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:05:32 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>
> You don't have anything running on your set-up that would cause someone to
> lock in on the IP and try to come past the router. Your set-up is below
> small potatoes, the potatoes don't exist and no one cares. ;-)

Hi Duane,
Thank you for taking the time to advise me.

All I'm asking is for the easiest software way to change my IP address
without having to give up the lease by shutting down all the equipment.

It's the unsuspecting little old lady who gets hit the hardest.
I used to not lock my car until I got my car seat stolen! Yes. A baby seat
stolen in a mall parking lot! A little thing like locking my doors or
rolling up my windows could have prevented that (and made the car-seat
thief go elsewhere for an easier picking).

I lick and seal my envelopes before mailing them. Do I think that will stop
a determined thief? Nope. But it will stop a lot of them. Why do you think
credit card companies send you the card in a plain envelope and not one
emblazened with the credit company logo on the outside? Little things
enhance security (sometimes more than the big obvious things). Let the
thief go elsewhere.

Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.

There must be an easier way to give up a lease without having to shut down
the router and dsl modem ... isn't there?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:4acmyzeeumco$.14yzpqd7hijla.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:09:21 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> >>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP
address
> >>approximately two or three times a week.
> >
> > A pointless waste of time and effort, giving you neither privacy or
> > security.
>
> All security is pointless if you think your way.
> There are big things you can do to raise security and little things.

Getting a different ip address every couple of hours is not one of them.
A decent firewall is all you need, and zone alarm has a free one for home
use.
If you are more concerned about being annoymous on the internet, check into
proxy connections to the internet.
You can do a google on anonymous browsing or related search and find all
kind of proxy servers.
>
> Big things are obvious (like locking your car doors or not doing personal
> email at work).
>
> But, little security measures add up too.
>
> Each little thing (like rolling up your windows or like driving a
different
> way to work each day) helps turn off the bad guy who is looking for an
easy
> steal.
>
> Some of the little things, like changing your MAC address, WPA keys,
login,
> password, and IP address periodically are well known and often advocated.

I have not seen where people have advocated changing their mac addresses or
ip addresses is a good security practice.
I have seen spammers, mass mailers, and other unsavory characters use those
techniques to try to hide.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

From: "Aluxe"

| On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:28:24 GMT, Stuart Miller wrote:
>> First - what do you seek to accomplish by the frequent changes?
|
| Hi Stuart,
|

Please remove alt.privacy.spyware as there is no non-viral malware relation to this
thread.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:33:24 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
>> software) way.
>
> There is really no need to do that.
> What are you trying to accomplish, we may have a different solution for you.

Hi Dana,

I want to enhance my privacy in a lot of little ways.

For example, do you know who I REALLY am?
My name. My address. My employer. My ISP. My phone. My MAC ID. My SSID. My
IP address. My operating system. My habits. My country of origin. My
newsreader, My spouse. My school. My bank. etc.

Some of these things, you DO know!

For example, you can easily see my ISP and my newsreader and my IP address
.... and if you dig a bit further, you can connect to some of the rest of
the things in this list above (and more). Just like a carnivore, tracking
down prey. A whole bunch of little clues lead to the unsuspecting clueless
innocent prey.

I just want to change my tracks by changing my IP address in an easier way
(read software rather than hardware) than shutting down the dsl modem and
router.

Is there an easier way to release an IP address to gain a new one a few
hours later (say overnight)?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Dana" wrote in message
news:12jac8pealjfed4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Aluxe" wrote in message
> news:4acmyzeeumco$.14yzpqd7hijla.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:09:21 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> > >>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP
> address
> > >>approximately two or three times a week.
> > >
> > > A pointless waste of time and effort, giving you neither privacy or
> > > security.
> >
> > All security is pointless if you think your way.
> > There are big things you can do to raise security and little things.
>
> Getting a different ip address every couple of hours is not one of them.
> A decent firewall is all you need, and zone alarm has a free one for home
> use.
> If you are more concerned about being annoymous on the internet, check
into
> proxy connections to the internet.
> You can do a google on anonymous browsing or related search and find all
> kind of proxy servers.

Take a look at these links

http://www.the-cloak.com/anonymous-surfing-home.html
http://proxify.com/
http://www.pcmesh.com/surf-anonymous.htm
http://www.megaproxy.com/
http://www.searchlores.org/anonyweb.htm
http://www.idzap.com/
> >
> > Big things are obvious (like locking your car doors or not doing
personal
> > email at work).
> >
> > But, little security measures add up too.
> >
> > Each little thing (like rolling up your windows or like driving a
> different
> > way to work each day) helps turn off the bad guy who is looking for an
> easy
> > steal.
> >
> > Some of the little things, like changing your MAC address, WPA keys,
> login,
> > password, and IP address periodically are well known and often
advocated.
>
> I have not seen where people have advocated changing their mac addresses
or
> ip addresses is a good security practice.
> I have seen spammers, mass mailers, and other unsavory characters use
those
> techniques to try to hide.
>
>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:31:28 -0800, Dana wrote:
> A little script will do this.
>> I have a few computers on the home network,
>> so I wonder if I go to each and
>> do an ipconfig /release it would work?
>
> You may get the same IP from your ISP

Hi Dana,
Thank you again for your willingness to help approach a technical problem.

Previously I answered (as best I could) WHY I want to do this small bit of
privacy enhancement (it's similar to the reason there are little walls
between telephones attached to a hotel lobby).

A lot of little things enhance privacy and security; changing ones IP
address periodically is a little change of direction that helps prevent
carnivores from tracking down their innocent sleeping prey.

Back to the technical aspect of the problem ... I found that I need at
least an hour of down time before the ISP will release the lease on the IP
address. That's OK as I generally do it overnight (which always gets me a
new IP address).

So, let's assume that, say, 5 hours of down time always gets me a new IP.
What is a software way to accomplish that task (bearing in mind there is a
dsl modem and linksys router in between the computers and the ISP).

Do you think that writing a script to run an "ipconfig /release" on every
WinXP computer inside the home network would cause the ISP to release the
IP address. Wouldn't the DSL modem or router (which dials back periodically
into the ISP) maintain the connection even without computers on the home
side?

Is there a way to tell the linksys router to only dial in when we want to
(without shutting it down which is what I do today to accomplish the same
task)?

The technical solution must be out there ... does anyone know enough about
home networks to help out?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:19:39 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <16evhz1yifcwd$.ijb6z8uuf2h2$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
>>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>>
>> Dial-up.
>
>I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
>those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
>painfully slow compared to dsl.
>
>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?

No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
slow, painful, and/or not free.

I'd personally worry much more about tracking cookies than about IP,
which is way down the list of real concerns.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

From: "Aluxe"

| On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:31:28 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> A little script will do this.
>>> I have a few computers on the home network,
>>> so I wonder if I go to each and
>>> do an ipconfig /release it would work?
>>
>> You may get the same IP from your ISP
|
| Hi Dana,
| Thank you again for your willingness to help approach a technical problem.
|

< snip >

I ask you again to remove alt.privacy.spyware from your posts.

All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is the ONLY News Group
you need to post to.

Additionally, you set Follow-Ups and fail to honour them yourself.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:23:26 GMT, Aluxe wrote:


>Some of the little things, like changing your MAC address,

a.n other utterly pointless measure.

> WPA keys,

See above. Generating a proper wpa key is far more important.

>login,

Causing ridiculous inconvenience. Changing a login does not prevent any
audit trail from being followed. If the TPTB want to figure out WTF you're
upto, a warrant + sniffer at the ISP will do the rest.

>password, and IP address periodically are well known and often advocated.
>
>Why do you think only big security measures are useful?

Changing IP address is categorically *not* a security measure in any way
shape or form.

It is no more a security measure than utilising crapware such as Evidence
Eliminator.

Wasting time and energy changing things which do not need to be changed
will make you less secure in the long run.


What possible threats do you think changing IP address is protecting you
from ?


greg
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:11c0w7ry7tsry.yvgiat7p9hfq$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:33:24 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
> >> software) way.
> >
> > There is really no need to do that.
> > What are you trying to accomplish, we may have a different solution for
you.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> I want to enhance my privacy in a lot of little ways.
>
> For example, do you know who I REALLY am?
> My name. My address. My employer. My ISP. My phone. My MAC ID. My SSID. My
> IP address. My operating system. My habits. My country of origin. My
> newsreader, My spouse. My school. My bank. etc.
>
> Some of these things, you DO know!
>
> For example, you can easily see my ISP and my newsreader and my IP address
> ... and if you dig a bit further, you can connect to some of the rest of
> the things in this list above (and more). Just like a carnivore, tracking
> down prey. A whole bunch of little clues lead to the unsuspecting clueless
> innocent prey.
>
> I just want to change my tracks by changing my IP address in an easier way
> (read software rather than hardware) than shutting down the dsl modem and
> router.

Than what you really want to do is connect through a proxy server.
There are quite a few ways to do that, but you will have to pay because you
are using someone elses server.
do a google search on "anonymous web surfing"
From that search you will see quite a few results.
Changing your assigned IP address from your ISP is really not doing anything
for you. Because think about it, you are changing the address of your
computer, you are not changing the address of the device that directly
connects you to the internet, I.E. your cable/DSL modem.
>
> Is there an easier way to release an IP address to gain a new one a few
> hours later (say overnight)?

Yes there is, you can write a script to run the command you have already
posted in this thread.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:39:13 -0800, Dana wrote:
> If you are more concerned about being annoymous on the internet, check into
> proxy connections to the internet.

Yes. This is the most important concern.

What is a "proxy connection".
I once set a 'proxy server' on a browser but it was horribly slow.
But that was way back in 1995 so maybe things are different now.

Is there a way to send this newsgroup message and have more privacy than I
have now?

For example, you already know (just from this message):
- My ISP
- My MAC (unique)
- My IP address (temporary)
- My Town (you get this from my IP address)
- My Newsreader
- My Operating System
(what else can you tell from this one news post?)

How can I post to the usenet without giving you all that information?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.

While some of the above are good security practices, like password changing
and even SSID. People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found (while
yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found that
mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
forever and eventually they do get caught.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:54:28 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <11ckcvvqmovrj$.1g5ay03lipcg8$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>So, let's assume that, say, 5 hours of down time always gets me a new IP.
>What is a software way to accomplish that task (bearing in mind there is a
>dsl modem and linksys router in between the computers and the ISP).

There isn't any.

>Do you think that writing a script to run an "ipconfig /release" on every
>WinXP computer inside the home network would cause the ISP to release the
>IP address.

You'll likely be given the same address.

>Wouldn't the DSL modem or router (which dials back periodically
>into the ISP) maintain the connection even without computers on the home
>side?

Modem no; router yes if PPPoE, no if bridged.

>Is there a way to tell the linksys router to only dial in when we want to
>(without shutting it down which is what I do today to accomplish the same
>task)?

Yes if PPPoE; no otherwise.

>The technical solution must be out there ...

It's not, short of using an anonymizer service.

>does anyone know enough about
>home networks to help out?

Sure.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:19 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
> All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is the ONLY News Group
> you need to post to.
>
Hi David,
I don't know what a COMSEC is but I will look it up.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:19:39 GMT, Aluxe wrote
> in <16evhz1yifcwd$.ijb6z8uuf2h2$.dlg@40tude.net>:
>
>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
>>>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>>>
>>> Dial-up.
>>
>>I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
>>those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
>>painfully slow compared to dsl.
>>
>>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
>>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?
>
> No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
> slow, painful, and/or not free.
>
> I'd personally worry much more about tracking cookies than about IP,
> which is way down the list of real concerns.

Thank you John Naves for the advice.
I do already use software that cleans up my cookies, removes and prevents
adware and spyware.

At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
system. And other things that I don't even know.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:02:57 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <9zdxf66b0znf.6yppb87o2zb.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:39:13 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> If you are more concerned about being annoymous on the internet, check into
>> proxy connections to the internet.
>
>Yes. This is the most important concern.
>
>What is a "proxy connection".

Consult Wikipedia. That's what it's there for.

>Is there a way to send this newsgroup message and have more privacy than I
>have now?

Sure -- use a news service that allows anonymous postings.

>For example, you already know (just from this message):
>- My ISP

Yes.

>- My MAC (unique)

No.

>- My IP address (temporary)

Yes.

>- My Town (you get this from my IP address)

Not necessarily.

>- My Newsreader

[yawn]

>- My Operating System

[yawn]

>(what else can you tell from this one news post?)

Who are you hiding from? ;)

>How can I post to the usenet without giving you all that information?

See above.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
<12jadnemj9f1k96@corp.supernews.com>:

>"Aluxe" wrote in message
>news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
>> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.
>
>While some of the above are good security practices, like password changing

Yes.

>and even SSID.

No. Only the wireless security authentication matters.

>People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
>reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found (while
>yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found that
>mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
>changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
>forever and eventually they do get caught.

Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

> What possible threats do you think changing IP address
> is protecting you from ?

Why do they have little walls between the phones on the wall at the hotel
lobby?

This is a little way to protect your conversation from prying ears.

Why does my hatchback have a sliding cover over it. Another little way to
protect privacy.

I'm hoping that changing my IP address prevents a casual observer from
taking all my usenet posts and figuring out who I am, where I work, where i
live, who is my spouse, what I do for a living, etc.

Doesn't it make it harder for you to track all my usenet posts?
Can you easily track the last five hundred of my usenet posts otherwise?













n Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:59:28 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:23:26 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
>
>
>>Some of the little things, like changing your MAC address,
>
> a.n other utterly pointless measure.
>
>> WPA keys,
>
> See above. Generating a proper wpa key is far more important.
>
>>login,
>
> Causing ridiculous inconvenience. Changing a login does not prevent any
> audit trail from being followed. If the TPTB want to figure out WTF you're
> upto, a warrant + sniffer at the ISP will do the rest.
>
>>password, and IP address periodically are well known and often advocated.
>>
>>Why do you think only big security measures are useful?
>
> Changing IP address is categorically *not* a security measure in any way
> shape or form.
>
> It is no more a security measure than utilising crapware such as Evidence
> Eliminator.
>
> Wasting time and energy changing things which do not need to be changed
> will make you less secure in the long run.
>
>
> What possible threats do you think changing IP address is protecting you
> from ?
>
>
> greg

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:12:15 -0400, Warren Oates
wrote in
<453539a8$0$27089$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>:

>You might want to go through a port scan at
> https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2
>(you don't have to buy anything from him; I find his port-scan very
>useful).

Don't trust anything at GRC -- Steve doesn't know what he's doing.
Much better services are readily available.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:11ckcvvqmovrj$.1g5ay03lipcg8$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:31:28 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > A little script will do this.
> >> I have a few computers on the home network,
> >> so I wonder if I go to each and
> >> do an ipconfig /release it would work?
> >
> > You may get the same IP from your ISP
>
> Hi Dana,
> Thank you again for your willingness to help approach a technical problem.
>
> Previously I answered (as best I could) WHY I want to do this small bit of
> privacy enhancement (it's similar to the reason there are little walls
> between telephones attached to a hotel lobby).
>
> A lot of little things enhance privacy and security; changing ones IP
> address periodically is a little change of direction that helps prevent
> carnivores from tracking down their innocent sleeping prey.

But a firewall will prevent them from coming in.
And using a proxy server would actually hide you from those you think may be
tracking you.

>
> Back to the technical aspect of the problem ... I found that I need at
> least an hour of down time before the ISP will release the lease on the IP
> address. That's OK as I generally do it overnight (which always gets me a
> new IP address).

Depends on the ISP. You can do an IPCONFIG /ALL and determine what the
renewal rate is for the ISP. The above command will show when you got your
lease and when it expires.
>
> So, let's assume that, say, 5 hours of down time always gets me a new IP.
> What is a software way to accomplish that task (bearing in mind there is a
> dsl modem and linksys router in between the computers and the ISP).

A script or bat file using the command.
>
> Do you think that writing a script to run an "ipconfig /release" on every
> WinXP computer inside the home network would cause the ISP to release the
> IP address. Wouldn't the DSL modem or router (which dials back
periodically
> into the ISP) maintain the connection even without computers on the home
> side?

Depends on how long the ISP holds the lease, and how busy they are.
So if as you say you have seen that it takes around 5 hours to sometimes get
a new lease, it depends on your ISP. Your DSL/Cable modem maintaing the link
does not enter the solution at all, as your computers are being assigned an
IP address.
Now your DSL/Cable modem has an address, and if it is static or dynamic,
that is dependent on the ISP. But even changing your PC address, you cannot
change the DSL modem ip address.
>
> Is there a way to tell the linksys router to only dial in when we want to
> (without shutting it down which is what I do today to accomplish the same
> task)?

I would have to look into that.
Other devices allow schedules to be implemented, you would have to look at
your user guide.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, Dana wrote:

> "Aluxe" wrote in message
> news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
>> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.
>
> While some of the above are good security practices, like password changing
> and even SSID. People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
> reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found (while
> yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found that
> mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
> changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
> forever and eventually they do get caught.

LOL. Hi Dana,
I'm not a bad guy ... If I were, I wouldn't be posting this using my own
ISP would I?

Here's the test:
a) Can you casually track my last ten posts?
Of course you can. Just look for my login on google.

b) OK. Then, can you easily track my last twenty posts?
Of course you can. Just look for my IP address.

c) The real question is can you track my last fifty posts?
I'm hoping changing my IP address makes this step just a wee bit harder.

Otherwise, why close your window shutters when you're going to bed?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:14:56 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
<12jaeblfe3fu14a@corp.supernews.com>:

>Now your DSL/Cable modem has an address, and if it is static or dynamic,
>that is dependent on the ISP. But even changing your PC address, you cannot
>change the DSL modem ip address.

With all due respect, that's not at all accurate -- you should read up
on DOCSIS (cable modem) and DMT (ADSL). The only IP seen by the outside
world is the public IP assigned to a computer or NAT router.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:13:35 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <10ttexze4eqnv$.1qiaxnv3efv7t.dlg@40tude.net>:

>> What possible threats do you think changing IP address
>> is protecting you from ?
>
>Why do they have little walls between the phones on the wall at the hotel
>lobby?
>
>This is a little way to protect your conversation from prying ears.
>
>Why does my hatchback have a sliding cover over it. Another little way to
>protect privacy.
>
>I'm hoping that changing my IP address prevents a casual observer from
>taking all my usenet posts and figuring out who I am, where I work, where i
>live, who is my spouse, what I do for a living, etc.
>
>Doesn't it make it harder for you to track all my usenet posts?
>Can you easily track the last five hundred of my usenet posts otherwise?

Changing your IP won't have any real bearing on that.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:16:26 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in :

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, Dana wrote:
>
>> "Aluxe" wrote in message
>> news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
>>> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.
>>
>> While some of the above are good security practices, like password changing
>> and even SSID. People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
>> reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found (while
>> yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found that
>> mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
>> changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
>> forever and eventually they do get caught.
>
>LOL. Hi Dana,
>I'm not a bad guy ... If I were, I wouldn't be posting this using my own
>ISP would I?
>
>Here's the test:
>a) Can you casually track my last ten posts?
>Of course you can. Just look for my login on google.
>
>b) OK. Then, can you easily track my last twenty posts?
>Of course you can. Just look for my IP address.
>
>c) The real question is can you track my last fifty posts?
>I'm hoping changing my IP address makes this step just a wee bit harder.

It doesn't.

>Otherwise, why close your window shutters when you're going to bed?

To make the room dark.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:9zdxf66b0znf.6yppb87o2zb.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:39:13 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > If you are more concerned about being annoymous on the internet, check
into
> > proxy connections to the internet.
>
> Yes. This is the most important concern.
>
> What is a "proxy connection".
> I once set a 'proxy server' on a browser but it was horribly slow.
> But that was way back in 1995 so maybe things are different now.

Still kind of slow.
>
> Is there a way to send this newsgroup message and have more privacy than I
> have now?

You would have to use a company that offers anonymous newsgroup posting.
And yes they exist

http://www.usenet.com/articles/anonymous_posting.htm
>
> For example, you already know (just from this message):
> - My ISP
> - My MAC (unique)
> - My IP address (temporary)
> - My Town (you get this from my IP address)
> - My Newsreader
> - My Operating System
> (what else can you tell from this one news post?)
>
> How can I post to the usenet without giving you all that information?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:05:32 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>>> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>>
>> You don't have anything running on your set-up that would cause someone
>> to
>> lock in on the IP and try to come past the router. Your set-up is below
>> small potatoes, the potatoes don't exist and no one cares. ;-)
>
> Hi Duane,
> Thank you for taking the time to advise me.
>
> All I'm asking is for the easiest software way to change my IP address
> without having to give up the lease by shutting down all the equipment.

It's worthless.

>
> It's the unsuspecting little old lady who gets hit the hardest.
> I used to not lock my car until I got my car seat stolen! Yes. A baby seat
> stolen in a mall parking lot! A little thing like locking my doors or
> rolling up my windows could have prevented that (and made the car-seat
> thief go elsewhere for an easier picking).
>

You really think so do you.

> I lick and seal my envelopes before mailing them. Do I think that will
> stop
> a determined thief? Nope. But it will stop a lot of them. Why do you think
> credit card companies send you the card in a plain envelope and not one
> emblazened with the credit company logo on the outside? Little things
> enhance security (sometimes more than the big obvious things). Let the
> thief go elsewhere.
>

Not if the machine has been compromised by malware and you don't know it, as
you give up this information.

> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.

You can change them but if someone really wanted to come after your set-up
on the wireless side, none of it means anything, particularly about the IP
from the ISP being changed. They have already hacked the wireless on the
router and they would know what the IP is from the ISP. And more and more
people are finding out about the tools used to hack a wireless system. It
don't take a genius to figure it out as more and more users are using
wireless.

>
> There must be an easier way to give up a lease without having to shut down
> the router and dsl modem ... isn't there?

You're setting there with a wireless set-up and you're expecting some kind
of security, then what can I say about it.

How you're going to get attacked is someone with happy fingers clinking on
unknown emails or dubious URL(s) that install things on the machine that
compromise the machine and they have control of the machine. None of this
other stuff you're talking about means anything, nothing, if they have
control of the machine.

They can also do this on the wireless side of the router and attack and
install things on a wired or wireless machine as they are most likely wide
open to attack.

At the very least, if the router has a syslog that you can use Wallwatcher
(free) so you can see what traffic is leaving the router to remote IP(s) for
possible dubious connections, then you should implement it. You shouldn't
sit there and fly blind if you can help it, as you don't even know what
traffic is leaving the network/router.

You should try to implement safehex as much as possible.

http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html

You should try to secure/harden the O/S to attack as much as possible.

http://labmice.techtarget.com/articles/winxpsecuritychecklis t.htm

This thing with you trying to change the IP from the ISP is worthless if the
machine has been compromised. In general, you changing the IP from the ISP
on a routine basis is worthless.

Duane :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"John Navas" wrote in message
news:avdaj25b5moslju5rseql75kpb28dravjb@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:02:57 GMT, Aluxe wrote
> in <9zdxf66b0znf.6yppb87o2zb.dlg@40tude.net>:
>
> >On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:39:13 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> If you are more concerned about being annoymous on the internet, check
into
> >> proxy connections to the internet.
> >
> >Yes. This is the most important concern.
> >
> >What is a "proxy connection".
>
> Consult Wikipedia. That's what it's there for.

Just use google and do a search.
>
> >Is there a way to send this newsgroup message and have more privacy than
I
> >have now?
>
> Sure -- use a news service that allows anonymous postings.
>
> >For example, you already know (just from this message):
> >- My ISP
>
> Yes.
>
> >- My MAC (unique)
>
> No.
>
> >- My IP address (temporary)
>
> Yes.
>
> >- My Town (you get this from my IP address)
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> >- My Newsreader
>
> [yawn]
>
> >- My Operating System
>
> [yawn]
>
> >(what else can you tell from this one news post?)
>
> Who are you hiding from? ;)
>
> >How can I post to the usenet without giving you all that information?
>
> See above.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
> Wi-Fi How To:
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:10ttexze4eqnv$.1qiaxnv3efv7t.dlg@40tude.net...
> > What possible threats do you think changing IP address
> > is protecting you from ?
>
> Why do they have little walls between the phones on the wall at the hotel
> lobby?
>
> This is a little way to protect your conversation from prying ears.
>
> Why does my hatchback have a sliding cover over it. Another little way to
> protect privacy.
>
> I'm hoping that changing my IP address prevents a casual observer from
> taking all my usenet posts and figuring out who I am, where I work, where
i
> live, who is my spouse, what I do for a living, etc.

OK, so lets say a bad guy gets your ip address, and he runs a whois search
on that ip.
Guess what, the listing of that IP is your ISP, not you, so there is no way
he can identify you to that IP address. Now if the cops came up with a
warrant, they can force the ISP into giving out information that will
identify you, but ISP's will not give out information about your surfing
unless they are forced to by a court order, and some have even fought that.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"John Navas" wrote in message
news:l5eaj2d7asc89km99qufnmt70k89ehsrqv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
> <12jadnemj9f1k96@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >"Aluxe" wrote in message
> >news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
> >> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
> >> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.
> >
> >While some of the above are good security practices, like password
changing
>
> Yes.
>
> >and even SSID.
>
> No

for enhanced security measures changing your SSID will not hurt.

> >People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
> >reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found (while
> >yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found that
> >mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
> >changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
> >forever and eventually they do get caught.
>
> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.

While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
> Wi-Fi How To:
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:q3yfghv589x7$.aswlk1e4dgup$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, Dana wrote:
>
> > "Aluxe" wrote in message
> > news:1dkuinb40fc1h.a2axsvtjnkc2$.dlg@40tude.net...
> >> Same with periodically changing my MAC address, my SSID, my encryption
> >> keys, my login, my password, and my IP address.
> >
> > While some of the above are good security practices, like password
changing
> > and even SSID. People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for
security
> > reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found
(while
> > yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found
that
> > mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
> > changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
> > forever and eventually they do get caught.
>
> LOL. Hi Dana,
> I'm not a bad guy ... If I were, I wouldn't be posting this using my own
> ISP would I?
>
> Here's the test:
> a) Can you casually track my last ten posts?
> Of course you can. Just look for my login on google.
>
> b) OK. Then, can you easily track my last twenty posts?
> Of course you can. Just look for my IP address.
Just using your IP address to track messages would also give me the other
people who were assigned that IP address by your ISP.
Remember the ISP is who is identified by that IP address when you run a
whois.

>
> c) The real question is can you track my last fifty posts?
Yep, just type in your name you use to post, or the email address you are
using.
> I'm hoping changing my IP address makes this step just a wee bit harder.

It will not.
If you want to post anonymously, you have to use a remailer type of service.
They strip your headers, and replace them with theirs.
>
> Otherwise, why close your window shutters when you're going to bed?
I leave mine open. But I do not have any visible neighbors

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"John Navas" wrote in message
news:geeaj2tmgunfju34q2ann2l9gdk0i7d5qt@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:14:56 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
> <12jaeblfe3fu14a@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >Now your DSL/Cable modem has an address, and if it is static or dynamic,
> >that is dependent on the ISP. But even changing your PC address, you
cannot
> >change the DSL modem ip address.
>
> With all due respect, that's not at all accurate -- you should read up
> on DOCSIS (cable modem) and DMT (ADSL). The only IP seen by the outside
> world is the public IP assigned to a computer or NAT router.

And again John jumps in with both feet in his mouth.
And that IP address when ran by a whois will state it belongs to the ISP in
question, not to the person who has been assigned that IP by the ISP.
And the cable modems and DSL modems do have an address, it may be a layer
two only address, or if a router is built into the device they can have a
layer 3 address. My cable modem has a mac address that the cable company
uses. So again John, you have displayed that you really are not that well
informed.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1g5u1r8q8ztgp$.1a9ngqoflqnt2.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:19 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
> > All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is
the ONLY News Group
> > you need to post to.
> >
> Hi David,
> I don't know what a COMSEC is but I will look it up.

Communication security.
Crypto and all that fancy stuff.
Very interesting stuff by the way, especially in the signal intelligence
side of the house.
If you are paranoid about your ISP address, you do not want to know what can
be done by signals intelligence, and other forms of electronic warfare and
electroncic countermeasures.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:00:54 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
<12jah1rmfd0r152@corp.supernews.com>:

>"John Navas" wrote in message
>news:geeaj2tmgunfju34q2ann2l9gdk0i7d5qt@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:14:56 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
>> <12jaeblfe3fu14a@corp.supernews.com>:
>>
>> >Now your DSL/Cable modem has an address, and if it is static or dynamic,
>> >that is dependent on the ISP. But even changing your PC address, you
>cannot
>> >change the DSL modem ip address.
>>
>> With all due respect, that's not at all accurate -- you should read up
>> on DOCSIS (cable modem) and DMT (ADSL). The only IP seen by the outside
>> world is the public IP assigned to a computer or NAT router.
>
>And again John jumps in with both feet in his mouth.
>And that IP address when ran by a whois will state it belongs to the ISP in
>question, not to the person who has been assigned that IP by the ISP.
>And the cable modems and DSL modems do have an address, it may be a layer
>two only address,

You said "ip address". No other address is visible to the outside world.

>or if a router is built into the device they can have a
>layer 3 address. My cable modem has a mac address that the cable company
>uses.

You said "ip address". No other address is visible to the outside world.

>So again John, you have displayed that you really are not that well
>informed.

Scramble noted and apology accepted.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Aluxe wrote:
> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
> approximately two or three times a week.

This will not give you privacy or more security at all.

Better consider using Tor network.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Ich lache nie."
Besim Karadeniz in d.c.s.m.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:27:05 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
<12jaf2fn8qmmu48@corp.supernews.com>:

>"John Navas" wrote in message
>news:avdaj25b5moslju5rseql75kpb28dravjb@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:02:57 GMT, Aluxe wrote
>> in <9zdxf66b0znf.6yppb87o2zb.dlg@40tude.net>:

>> >What is a "proxy connection".
>>
>> Consult Wikipedia. That's what it's there for.
>
>Just use google and do a search.

For some things, yes, but in cases like this Google search is much less
efficient than going to a reference like Wikipedia.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
<12jaffdfv589705@corp.supernews.com>:

>"John Navas" wrote in message
>news:l5eaj2d7asc89km99qufnmt70k89ehsrqv@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
>> <12jadnemj9f1k96@corp.supernews.com>:

>> >and even SSID.
>>
>> No
>
>for enhanced security measures changing your SSID will not hurt.

It won't actually help at all. Anyone with even minor clue can get the
MAC address or otherwise identify it.

>> >People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
>> >reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found (while
>> >yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found that
>> >mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding by
>> >changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot hide
>> >forever and eventually they do get caught.
>>
>> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.
>
>While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
>There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.

Sure. But security isn't one of them.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

From: "Dana"

|
| "Aluxe" wrote in message
| news:1g5u1r8q8ztgp$.1a9ngqoflqnt2.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:19 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
>>> All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is
| the ONLY News Group
>>> you need to post to.
>>>
>> Hi David,
>> I don't know what a COMSEC is but I will look it up.
|
| Communication security.
| Crypto and all that fancy stuff.
| Very interesting stuff by the way, especially in the signal intelligence
| side of the house.
| If you are paranoid about your ISP address, you do not want to know what can
| be done by signals intelligence, and other forms of electronic warfare and
| electroncic countermeasures.
|

Make him even MORE pranoid. Tell him about Tempest Monitoring :-)

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas
wrote:


>>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
>>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?
>
>No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
>slow, painful, and/or not free.
>

And not particularly effective either


http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss



greg
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 17 Oct 2006 23:08:44 +0200, Volker Birk wrote:

>Aluxe wrote:
>> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
>> approximately two or three times a week.
>
>This will not give you privacy or more security at all.
>
>Better consider using Tor network.
>

Yeah that'll work....

http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss



greg
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:13:35 GMT, Aluxe wrote:

>> What possible threats do you think changing IP address
>> is protecting you from ?
>
>Why do they have little walls between the phones on the wall at the hotel
>lobby?


I suggest figuring out how the basic tcp/ip networking works before you
really do shoot yourself in both feet.
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"David H. Lipman" wrote in message
news:%RbZg.3467$4T6.993@trnddc02...
> From: "Dana"
>
> |
> | "Aluxe" wrote in message
> | news:1g5u1r8q8ztgp$.1a9ngqoflqnt2.dlg@40tude.net...
> >> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:19 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
> >>> All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is
> | the ONLY News Group
> >>> you need to post to.
> >>>
> >> Hi David,
> >> I don't know what a COMSEC is but I will look it up.
> |
> | Communication security.
> | Crypto and all that fancy stuff.
> | Very interesting stuff by the way, especially in the signal intelligence
> | side of the house.
> | If you are paranoid about your ISP address, you do not want to know what
can
> | be done by signals intelligence, and other forms of electronic warfare
and
> | electroncic countermeasures.
> |
>
> Make him even MORE pranoid. Tell him about Tempest Monitoring :-)

Now he is going to shield his house with lead.

>
> --
> Dave
> http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
> http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Greg Hennessy" wrote in message
news:k7iaj2tsfa1oanql5r15gttd1g4nvrfgsv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas
> wrote:
>
>
> >>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then
ask
> >>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?
> >
> >No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
> >slow, painful, and/or not free.
> >
>
> And not particularly effective either
>
>
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss

Thanks for the link. Very interesting read.
>
>
>
> greg
> --
> "He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"John Navas" wrote in message
news:alhaj2hdrsd8gub9ljrkb1cma3esafik83@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
> <12jaffdfv589705@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >"John Navas" wrote in message
> >news:l5eaj2d7asc89km99qufnmt70k89ehsrqv@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:04:09 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
> >> <12jadnemj9f1k96@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >> >and even SSID.
> >>
> >> No
> >
> >for enhanced security measures changing your SSID will not hurt.
>
> >> >People who change MAC addresses are not doing so for security
> >> >reasons, but are changing their MAC addresses to avoid being found
(while
> >> >yes you can call that security), the point is that it has been found
that
> >> >mass mailers, spammers, phishers and such are the ones who are hiding
by
> >> >changing their MAC addresses. But like everything else, they cannot
hide
> >> >forever and eventually they do get caught.
> >>
> >> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.
> >
> >While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
> >There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.
>
> Sure. But security isn't one of them.

Never said it was.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
> Wi-Fi How To:
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"John Navas" wrote in message
news:3ihaj29ktv312b66vu38ksiruvi0ebdqiu@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:27:05 -0800, "Dana" wrote in
> <12jaf2fn8qmmu48@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >"John Navas" wrote in message
> >news:avdaj25b5moslju5rseql75kpb28dravjb@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:02:57 GMT, Aluxe wrote
> >> in <9zdxf66b0znf.6yppb87o2zb.dlg@40tude.net>:
>
> >> >What is a "proxy connection".
> >>
> >> Consult Wikipedia. That's what it's there for.
> >
> >Just use google and do a search.
>
> For some things, yes, but in cases like this Google search is much less
> efficient than going to a reference like Wikipedia.

People need to be aware that Wikipedia is not a real reference, and that the
material there is not checked for accuracy.

>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
> Wi-Fi How To:
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:12:08 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
>software) way.

Sure, but the question is, why? What good does it do you?
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:31:28 -0800, in alt.internet.wireless , "Dana"
wrote:

>> I have a few computers on the home network, so I wonder if I go to each
>and
>> do an ipconfig /release it would work?

Nope, the IP of your router is the one you need to refresh.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:09:15 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
>you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
>example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
>system. And other things that I don't even know.

FCOL this is pointless stuff to worry about.

If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in, and your IP
will do no better for them. You can tell from mine I'm in Oxford. But
where? There's 100,000 people here. And who cares about your ISP or
newsreader?

And nobody can tell your MAC by the way. Except your ISP, who needs to
know.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:23:26 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>But, little security measures add up too.

Sure but this isn't a security measure.

>Some of the little things, like changing your MAC address,

Eh? This is NOT a security feature at all. You've been reading the
wrong books.
#
>WPA keys, login, password,

Yes

> and IP address periodically are well known and often advocated.

Again, no. Whoever said this is clueless.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:13:35 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>> What possible threats do you think changing IP address
>> is protecting you from ?
>
(snip examples of real actual privacy measures).

>I'm hoping that changing my IP address prevents a casual observer from
>taking all my usenet posts and figuring out who I am, where I work, where i
>live, who is my spouse, what I do for a living, etc.

They can't figure any of that out from an IP, no matter how hard they
try. The best someone can do from your IP is work out which town
you're posting from. Unless you're the only guy in town with a net
connection, thats useless to them.

Stop chasing chimeras and please read some proper literature about
this stuff.

>Doesn't it make it harder for you to track all my usenet posts?

Nope.

>Can you easily track the last five hundred of my usenet posts otherwise?

I'm beginning to wonder if your'e paranoid. Who the heck would want to
do this? And bear in mind that anyone that obsessive isn't going to be
stopped by trivia like your IP.

--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:44:20 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>For example, do you know who I REALLY am?

Nope.

>My name. My address. My employer.

Can't work any of that out from IP address or any other public info,
unless you delivberately publish it.

>My ISP.

Prodigy apparently. So you're one of how many tens of thousands of
customers? Hardly earth shattering revelation.

>My phone. My MAC ID. My SSID.

Can't work out any of that either, unless you deliberately post it.

>My IP address. My operating system.

Yes (guess: 69.110.12.220, Windows) but what concievable use is that?

>My habits. My country of origin.

Nope.

>My newsreader,

40tude. So what?

>My spouse. My school. My bank. etc.

Nope.

>Some of these things, you DO know!

So what? I know you're a computer illiterate too (no offense, you
really are) but its not useful info for anything at all.

>For example, you can easily see my ISP and my newsreader and my IP address
>... and if you dig a bit further, you can connect to some of the rest of
>the things in this list above (and more).

You have absolutely no clue at all. From an IP address you can
possibly determine the town someone is in, at most. From the
newsreader you can determine the approximate OS. Thats it. End.
Finito. To find out where you live, your real name, your age etc I'd
have to subpoena your ISP.

>Just like a carnivore, tracking
>down prey. A whole bunch of little clues lead to the unsuspecting clueless
>innocent prey.

Total paranoia. See a doctor. Seriously.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:16:26 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>Here's the test:
>a) Can you casually track my last ten posts?

The question is, why do you care? There are two possible answers:
1) you're clinically paranoid
2) you have a guilty concience

I can't currently think of a third.

>c) The real question is can you track my last fifty posts?
>I'm hoping changing my IP address makes this step just a wee bit harder.

Not really. Anyone who REALLY wanted to track you would monitor posts
for your characteristic posting style, and would catch you very
quickly.

>Otherwise, why close your window shutters when you're going to bed?

I don't. I'm not paranoid.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:48:04 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>Some of these things, you DO know!
>
> So what? I know you're a computer illiterate too (no offense, you
> really are) but its not useful info for anything at all.

Hi Mark McIntyre,
Yes. I am. That's why I'm asking for this kind of help.

Pretty much I've learned a lot from all of you.

For example, that TEMPEST stuff is real scary.

I'm ready to shroud my computer in a wire mesh now!

:)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:29:43 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:12:08 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
> wrote:
>
>>All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
>>software) way.
>
> Sure, but the question is, why? What good does it do you?

I'm trying to gain 'free' anonimity.
That's all.
It's not the end all to privacy.

It's just an ounce more of privacy.

Just like we do when we lick and seal an envelope.
Or when we close the curtain at the voting booth.
Or when we close the bathroom door.

It's not that we are all criminals for doing these things.
And it's not that we 'expect' someone to be peeking in on us.

It's just normal to expect an ounce of privacy even on the Internet.
That's all I want to achieve.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:06:37 -0800, Dana wrote:
> If you are paranoid about your ISP address, you do not want to know what can
> be done by signals intelligence, and other forms of electronic warfare and
> electroncic countermeasures.

Yes. Indeed. I read that stuff about driving around sniffing everyone's WEP
security out. Apparently it's trivial for my neighbor to read all my
communications. Sigh.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:24:11 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
> Make him even MORE pranoid. Tell him about Tempest Monitoring :-)

Oh my.

Apparently, unless I drape a wire mesh over my computer monitor, anyone can
read what I am typing from 300 yards away with just 100 dollars of common
equipment!

http://bss.sfsu.edu/fischer/IR%20360/Readings/tempest.htm

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:08:29 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> Make him even MORE pranoid. Tell him about Tempest Monitoring :-)
>
> Now he is going to shield his house with lead.

Wouldn't a simple wire-mesh screen suffice?

Luckily, most of the radiation eminates from monitors (according to what I
just read), and not from portable PC screens without any wires attached to
act as antennae.

Seems to me we could create a light conductive cloth (carbon fiber?) which
we could drape over the screen to prevent these tell tale emissions.

I'm going outside now to check the trucks parked on the street to see if
any have an antenna ... :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:30:21 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>> do an ipconfig /release it would work?
>
> Nope, the IP of your router is the one you need to refresh.

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the advice that the ROUTER is the IP I need to refresh.

That must be why I have to unplug the router and plug it back in after
leaving the dsl modem off for a few hours. The ppoe (or whatever it's
called) must kick in when I plug it in.

I wonder if we can kick off the ppoe (or whatever it is) login to the ISP
from the winXP PC?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
>> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
>> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
>> system. And other things that I don't even know.
>
> No, we don't get your MAC address.

Hi Warren Oates,

I guess I was wrong.

I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

It's not that we expect everyone to duck their head under the IP packet to
look at us, but, we still close the door so as to have a modicum of
privacy.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:33:03 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in,

Hi Mark,

I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
reverse lookup on the Internet to find not only where they live, but the
price of their house and that of their neighbors (I've done it at times
myself to see who called me).

However, you don't phone ten thousand people at a time (which is what we
are doing here on the Internet).

Having one person be able to identify you vs having ten thousand be able to
identify you lets in a lot of kooks, don't you think?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:33:59 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss

Hi Greg,

I read the reference article but I must agree with Mark that I am nearly
clueless.

For example, this key sentence was supposed to make sense but it didn't/

For example, the article stated:
" ... it replicated data which was apparently being submitted to the host
via an HTTP cookie so it seemed that the idea was to have the cookie travel
to the unwitting Tor user and be sent back via DNS tunnel to an external
host to confirm the real identity of the host. "

Unfortunately, to me, these are too complicated.
Sorry.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:22:33 -0800, Dana wrote:
> You would have to use a company that offers anonymous newsgroup posting.
> http://www.usenet.com/articles/anonymous_posting.htm

Hi Dana,

Thanks again for providing useful information that works toward a solution
fo the technical problem, which, I didn't realize before, but is really all
about remaining as anonymous as possible, for free, when posting on the
Internet.

The main problem (and I know that's not your fault) is that the access
costs, essentially, $250 dollars a year for the same access that I have
today already paid for.

I think, if the choice is to figure out how to send a wake-up signal to my
linksys router or pay the $250 per year to usenet.com, I'll try to see if I
can figure out (somehow) how to send a wake-up signal to my router without
having to literally unplug it.

If there is a 'free' usenet news service out there ... then that would
solve the problem though.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:20:54 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>>Doesn't it make it harder for you to track all my usenet posts?
>>Can you easily track the last five hundred of my usenet posts otherwise?
>
> Changing your IP won't have any real bearing on that.

Hi John,
Again, I thank you for your advice but this one I don't understand.

When I look at the header of my posts I can easily see my router's IP
address in the header ...

If I kept the same IP address for, say, a year, wouldn't ALL my posts in
that year have the same IP address on it?

If anyone wanted to gather up all my posts (no matter what name or
newsreader I used), wouldn't keeping the same IP address make that task
trivial?

Sort of like someone gathering up all my snail mail and reading it if they
felt like it without having to bother opening the letters.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:30:53 -0800, Dana wrote:
> Now if the cops came up with a
> warrant, they can force the ISP into giving out information

Hi Dana,

Thanks for the warning but I wasn't at all worried about the law.
If they wanted to get to me, they would.
If they wanted to get you, they would.
Nothing you could do would stop them as your ISP knows everything.

It's the same with my car keys. Nothing I do is going to stop the law from
towing my car away even if I lock it up with chains around it.

But, I don't lock my car door to keep the cops away.
I lock my car door to keep some kid in the neighborhood from rifling
through my purse and makeup I keep in the glove compartment.

I'm just trying to gain a modicum of privacy on the internet by switching
my identity and any connecting factors.

Do you know if there is a way to send a wake-up signal to make the Linksys
router send the ppoe (or whatever it is) signal to dial back into an ISP
once I plug the dsl router back in?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:42:17 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> They can't figure any of that out from an IP, no matter how hard they
> try. The best someone can do from your IP is work out which town
> you're posting from.

Hi Mark,
Are you sure about that?

It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted (assuming
you kept the same IP address the whole time) just by grabbing the header
line that stores your nntp posting host (which in my case, is unique).

If I can do it that easily (and you've already said I am computer
illiterate), I shudder to think how easy it would be for a "bad guy" to do
it for me.

What is wrong with what I said above?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.
>
> While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
> There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.

Hi Dana,
I'll give you a real life, albeit embarrassing, reason for changing a MAC
address.

When I was in high school, a student made a lot of fun of my body. Said I
was a "twiggy" (those old enough out there will know what that means).

Well, recently I was back home, and I saw her, and she looked positively
huge. She must have doubled in weight. I wanted to get her back. So, I
logged into NetZero from a blocked phone line, and I sent her a message
calling her all sorts of names to get her back. I even said I was a
"friend" of hers way back when but I thought she looked like a pig now.

Point is, I figured the only way they could track that email I sent her was
through my MAC address since the IP address would have been registered to
NetZero and the phone number I called from would have been blocked.

Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
Or did I give myself away even then?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:38:20 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> b) OK. Then, can you easily track my last twenty posts?
>> Of course you can. Just look for my IP address.
> Just using your IP address to track messages would also give me the other
> people who were assigned that IP address by your ISP.

Hi Dana,
I think you are making my point for me (I think).

If I had the lease on an IP address for, say, the past three months, then
you could find all my posts (no matter which pseudonym I chose) for that
three-month period, simply by searching for one line in the nntp header.

If I had the same IP address for, say, six months, then I just doubled that
vulnerable tracking period.

Likewise, if I held the lease only for a day, then you'd only be able to
track my posts for one day.

Arent' you agreeing with me then on the need to change the IP address
periodically for those of us whose ISP lists the IP address of our routers?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:50:14 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> The question is, why do you care? There are two possible answers:
> 1) you're clinically paranoid
> 2) you have a guilty concience

Hi Mark McIntyre,

Wanting privacy doesn't mean you're clinically paranoid. Are you saying
everyone who closes the bathroom door is clinically paranoid? Or that they
have a guilty conscience?

Are you implying that everyone who pulls the voting booth curtain shut has
a guilty conscience (maybe they are a tax evader?).

And, everyone who licks an envelope shut has a guilty conscience?

I like you (and I appreciate your help) ... but I think you are stretching
the situation to say that everyone who desires a modicum of privacy has a
guilty conscience or is paranoid except you.

All I want to do is figure out a way to tell the router to wake up and dial
into the DSL PPOE (or whatever it is) when I give it a command from the
computer.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1fk5sri9s0x95.1ddaoxajezb2u.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:20:54 GMT, John Navas wrote:
> >>Doesn't it make it harder for you to track all my usenet posts?
> >>Can you easily track the last five hundred of my usenet posts otherwise?
> >
> > Changing your IP won't have any real bearing on that.
>
> Hi John,
> Again, I thank you for your advice but this one I don't understand.
>
> When I look at the header of my posts I can easily see my router's IP
> address in the header ...

But if someone was to check on that IP address, they would find it belonged
to your ISP. It would be one of many addresses in a block that your ISP was
assigned.
Unless of course you went out and had your own IP address assigned, which we
know is not the case.
>
> If I kept the same IP address for, say, a year, wouldn't ALL my posts in
> that year have the same IP address on it?

It is your ISP's address. Unless you go out and get a static address from
your ISP, than yes that IP can be associated with you. But if you just use
your cable modem like most everyone else, you are only being assigned an IP
from your ISP, it is your ISP who will be identified with that address.

As a test go ahead and do a whois lookup. If you do not know what that is,
do a google on whois.

Once you get to a whois lookup site, type in the IP address your computer
was given by your ISP.
Do an ipconfig /all at the command prompt.
You will see that whois returns your ISP as being the owner of that IP
address.
Hence all your work of trying to change your IP is doing nothing for your
privacy.


>
> If anyone wanted to gather up all my posts (no matter what name or
> newsreader I used), wouldn't keeping the same IP address make that task
> trivial?

Just using your name in Google group search would show all your posts, would
not even need your address.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:edcseosgycsk$.1q8hpxz5f1h1.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:30:53 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > Now if the cops came up with a
> > warrant, they can force the ISP into giving out information
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Thanks for the warning but I wasn't at all worried about the law.
> If they wanted to get to me, they would.
> If they wanted to get you, they would.
> Nothing you could do would stop them as your ISP knows everything.
>
> It's the same with my car keys. Nothing I do is going to stop the law from
> towing my car away even if I lock it up with chains around it.
>
> But, I don't lock my car door to keep the cops away.
> I lock my car door to keep some kid in the neighborhood from rifling
> through my purse and makeup I keep in the glove compartment.
>
> I'm just trying to gain a modicum of privacy on the internet by switching
> my identity and any connecting factors.

And the only way to do that is by using a proxy server.
>
> Do you know if there is a way to send a wake-up signal to make the Linksys
> router send the ppoe (or whatever it is) signal to dial back into an ISP
> once I plug the dsl router back in?

This will not protect your privacy one iota

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1bmxxlp6c5bep.17uhbudn22tqq.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:42:17 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> > They can't figure any of that out from an IP, no matter how hard they
> > try. The best someone can do from your IP is work out which town
> > you're posting from.
>
> Hi Mark,
> Are you sure about that?

Yes.
As a test run a whois on the ip assigned to your computer right now.
You will find that it is assigned to your ISP and your name will be no where
to be found associated with that IP.
Now if you do a graphical trace route on that IP, it may get you down to
your town and that is about it.

>
> It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
> address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted

Google search can do that just by typing in the name you post under.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:6xpsis0n7z26$.1bpm30hw360sr$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> Changing the MAC address is totally pointless.
> >
> > While I see where you are coming from, I would not say it is pointless.
> > There are valid and invalid reasons for wanting to change a MAC address.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I'll give you a real life, albeit embarrassing, reason for changing a MAC
> address.
>
> When I was in high school, a student made a lot of fun of my body. Said I
> was a "twiggy" (those old enough out there will know what that means).
>
> Well, recently I was back home, and I saw her, and she looked positively
> huge. She must have doubled in weight. I wanted to get her back. So, I
> logged into NetZero from a blocked phone line, and I sent her a message
> calling her all sorts of names to get her back. I even said I was a
> "friend" of hers way back when but I thought she looked like a pig now.
>
> Point is, I figured the only way they could track that email I sent her
was
> through my MAC address since the IP address would have been registered to
> NetZero and the phone number I called from would have been blocked.
>
> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
> Or did I give myself away even then?

The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a court
order for your ISP to show it to them.
The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:vzloblvv12sb.1bxgj1skd95qr$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:38:20 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> b) OK. Then, can you easily track my last twenty posts?
> >> Of course you can. Just look for my IP address.
> > Just using your IP address to track messages would also give me the
other
> > people who were assigned that IP address by your ISP.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I think you are making my point for me (I think).
>
> If I had the lease on an IP address for, say, the past three months, then
> you could find all my posts (no matter which pseudonym I chose) for that
> three-month period, simply by searching for one line in the nntp header.

So you are an abuser of the system, or else you would not have to change
your pseudonym all the time. People who do that is the newsgroups are either
spammers, or people just trying to disrupt the newsroup, or people who keep
getting blocked by their other ISPs from posting to newsgroups.


> Arent' you agreeing with me then on the need to change the IP address
> periodically for those of us whose ISP lists the IP address of our
routers?

No.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:24:04 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> All I'm asking is for the easiest software way to change my IP address
>> without having to give up the lease by shutting down all the equipment.
>
> It's worthless.

Hi Duane,
I thank you for the suggested URLs which I read with interest.
Please don't feel I am picking on you when I report the following
information.
You happen to list your NNTP posting host, as do I, so you are just easily
tracked, that's all.

YOUR NNTP POSTING HOST: 4.252.215.137
YOUR APPROXIMATE LOCATION: Chicago
YOUR ASSUMED ISP: EarthLink Inc. in Colorado
YOUR ASSUMED NEWSREADER: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM: Microsoft Windows XP (based on the above newsreader)
You're a programmer by trade having started in 1971 as an IT employee.
You write insurance applications, among other tasks since 1980.
You've contracted with Maine, and Ohio, Minnesota, and Illinois on taxation
software in the past, mostly on Microsoft platforms as you're not a friend
of Linux.
Your posts: many hundreds each of which supplies a bit of your personality

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:49:33 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
>> address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted
>
> Google search can do that just by typing in the name you post under.

Not true. I go into my newsreader and change the name for each topic that I
ask (I ask about once a month or so to solve a particularly vexing
problem).

I never use the same name twice. I just randomly pick them.

Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.

The usenet analogy is I change my pseudonym even when I ask a question that
can be seen by ten thousand people for ten years or more. I don't want one
of these questions embarrassing me in the future, for example, with my kids
(I post to more than just the technical groups).

I think you've agreed with me that the IP address is the only other factor
that can easily trace me with a simple search.

Now the technical question really is how to force the router to do a PPOE
dialup on command without having to unplug it and plug it back in. Is this
the right newsgroup to ask that technical question?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1m2g2nhwk5ckw$.8qr6ipjz2j4g$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> >> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to
give
> >> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress,
for
> >> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
> >> system. And other things that I don't even know.
> >
> > No, we don't get your MAC address.
>
> Hi Warren Oates,
>
> I guess I was wrong.
>
> I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
> communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

Yes if that is your ISP. and if you change your computers mac address, they
can track that as well.
And unless there is somekind of court order, ISP's do not track or give out
the surfing patterns of their users.
>
> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
out that information.


> It's not that we expect everyone to duck their head under the IP packet to
> look at us, but, we still close the door so as to have a modicum of
> privacy.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:51:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
>> Or did I give myself away even then?
>
> The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a court
> order for your ISP to show it to them.
> The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.

Hi Dana,
Sorry to keep hammering on this but the question I asked was "didn't
changing the MAC address add a modicum of privacy to my email"?

For example, if she had a packet sniffer or if she got a court order to
track the email, wouldn't the MAC address have been a key component of the
traceback?

And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
extra level of privacy to that traceback?

Yes or no is what I'd expect the answer to be.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:55:01 -0800, Dana wrote:
> So you are an abuser of the system, or else you would not have to change
> your pseudonym all the time.

Hi Dana,
I do appreciate your help ... and this conversation will help many others
.... but I must wonder why you instantly assume anyone who wants privacy is
an "abuser of the system".

Am I an abuser of the system because I close the bathroom door?
Am I an abuser of the system because I lick my envelopes shut?
Am I an abuser of the system because I participate in anonymous surveys?

Of course not.

Please don't assume that a sincere desire to remain private is an automatic
conviction for system abuse.

I have posted to many alt.personals groups, for example, and I don't want
my kids to see them. Are you saying that I'm an abuser of the system
because I don't post using my real name? Or that I don't use the same name
for the personal posts vs the technical posts vs the work related posts?

Which of my actions above caused me to be condemned as an abuser of the
system?

All I want to know is how to wake up the PPPOE part of the linksys router
so that it dials back into the DSL ISP with my login and password so that I
don't have to unplug the router to force it to do so.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:dpvkonxs8q77.3yud78hztcn6$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:49:33 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
> >> address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted
> >
> > Google search can do that just by typing in the name you post under.
>
> Not true. I go into my newsreader and change the name for each topic that
I
> ask (I ask about once a month or so to solve a particularly vexing
> problem).
>
> I never use the same name twice. I just randomly pick them.
>
> Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
> enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.
>
> The usenet analogy is I change my pseudonym even when I ask a question
that
> can be seen by ten thousand people for ten years or more. I don't want one
> of these questions embarrassing me in the future, for example, with my
kids
> (I post to more than just the technical groups).
>
> I think you've agreed with me that the IP address is the only other factor
> that can easily trace me with a simple search.

No.
There are other parts of the header that can be used to track you. As it is
IP addresses are the most common item that people change, followed closely
by their email address, and their posting name.
Google groups search function makes it easy to track a poster. And if people
really wanted they can run programs to search for your posts based on your
language style. It would take time, but it can be done.

>
> Now the technical question really is how to force the router to do a PPOE
> dialup on command without having to unplug it and plug it back in. Is this
> the right newsgroup to ask that technical question?

Doing that will not give you the privacy you think it would. It seems you
have other reasons why you may want to hide yourself, kind of like what
spammers, and mass mailers, and other unsavory people try to do.

>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
>> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).
>
> Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
> out that information.

Hi Dana,
I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
answers.

May I ask again?

TEST: Assume this scenario:
- I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
- I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
- I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
back to me
- I disconnect from NetZero
- I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8

QUESTION:
Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

This should be a YES or NO kind of answer.
I assume YES based on the fact that nothing in the IP packet header was
true. But, you seem to be saying my original MAC address (which can be
tracked back not only to the manufacturer of the PC but to the owner based
on store records) is also appended to the packet.

Are you saying BOTH the original and the bogus MAC address are appended to
the packets?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:6reykj1cl80a$.svm6xifnvsrq.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:51:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some
privacy?
> >> Or did I give myself away even then?
> >
> > The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a
court
> > order for your ISP to show it to them.
> > The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.
>
> Hi Dana,
> Sorry to keep hammering on this but the question I asked was "didn't
> changing the MAC address add a modicum of privacy to my email"?

No.

>
> For example, if she had a packet sniffer or if she got a court order to
> track the email, wouldn't the MAC address have been a key component of the
> traceback?

Your ISP will always have whatever MAC address you use, hence if they were
given a court order, they would have to give it up.


>
> And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
> extra level of privacy to that traceback?

No, because your isp would know it is associated with your account, hence
they would have to give that info out if there was a court order.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:30:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> I think you've agreed with me that the IP address is the only other factor
>> that can easily trace me with a simple search.
>
> No.
> There are other parts of the header that can be used to track you. As it is
> IP addresses are the most common item that people change, followed closely
> by their email address, and their posting name.

Hi Dana,
Now we're getting somewhere useful!

Your answer is the kind of meat that gets us somewhere (as opposed to
instantly and publically stating anyone who closes their front door, lowers
their window shades at night, and at any time flushes the toilet is a
despicable drug runner trying to hide their nasty drug habit).

WHAT else in my header gives away my privacy other than:
IP address (changed daily), email address (spoofed), posting name (spoofed)

Here are my header lines (which of these give away details about me)?
Path:
Newsgroups:
User-Agent:
MIME-Version:
Content-Type:
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
References:
Message-ID:
Lines: 28
NNTP-Posting-Host:
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace:
NNTP-Posting-Date:
Organization:
X-UserInfo1:
Xref:

I presume the most important header line is the "X-UserInfo1" line.
It seems to uniquely identify me.

Are you saying that, since the "X-UserInfo1" line uniquely identifies me,
all other attempts at securing a modicum of privacy are for naught?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:8r03f7mb5zxm$.1oztuq2848t1y$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:55:01 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > So you are an abuser of the system, or else you would not have to change
> > your pseudonym all the time.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I do appreciate your help ... and this conversation will help many others
> ... but I must wonder why you instantly assume anyone who wants privacy is
> an "abuser of the system".

But you do not want privacy, you are trying to circumvent the system.
For all we know is maybe you harass people on the newsgroups, hence filters
were put in place against you, and you are trying to get around them.

> Please don't assume that a sincere desire to remain private is an
automatic
> conviction for system abuse.

It seems you may have different motives for masking your location
>
> I have posted to many alt.personals groups, for example, and I don't want
> my kids to see them. Are you saying that I'm an abuser of the system
> because I don't post using my real name?

Nope. There are many different screen names running around the internet

> Or that I don't use the same name
> for the personal posts vs the technical posts vs the work related posts?

Nope, again that is common practice
>
> Which of my actions above caused me to be condemned as an abuser of the
> system?

Your insistence on trying to hide you Mac address. Since you use DHCP your
IP address is not important. Your Mac address is what identifies your
computer.
While people from the outside, except your ISP cannot see your MAC, the fact
that you want to change it, indicates you may be up to something that forces
you to want to hide. Just like what mass mailers, spammers, and phishers do.

>
> All I want to know is how to wake up the PPPOE part of the linksys router
> so that it dials back into the DSL ISP with my login and password so that
I
> don't have to unplug the router to force it to do so.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
> >> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).
> >
> > Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to
give
> > out that information.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
> answers.
>
> May I ask again?
>
> TEST: Assume this scenario:
> - I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
> - I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
> - I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
> back to me
> - I disconnect from NetZero
> - I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8

And your friend has the mac address you changed via a court order.
As the changed mac address still is associated with your account with net
zero.
It would be no different if you used a different computer to log into your
netzero account.
>
> QUESTION:
> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:34:50 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
>> extra level of privacy to that traceback?
>
> No, because your isp would know it is associated with your account, hence
> they would have to give that info out if there was a court order.

Hi Dana,
I do appreciate your taking the time to explain this to me.
Let me see if I have it correct this time:

CASE 1 (home ISP):
In the case of a home ISP, where I have to log in with a user name and a
password from a dedicated account, changing the MAC address provides
absolutely no additional privacy since the ISP knows the MAC address used,
even if it is 00-00-00-00-00-00.

CASE 2 (NetZero dialup):
Even in the case of NetZero dialup, there may not be an additional level of
privacy gained by changing the MAC address because you have to first
establish an account with NetZero which requires a previous account which
will have your original MAC address associated with it - which can always
be traced back to you by your ISP.

CASE 3 (hotel free hotspot):
However, in the case of a hotel freebie hotspot, changing the MAC address
to 00-00-00-00-00-00 DOES PROVIDE AN EXTRA LEVEL OF PRIVACY because in this
case, the MAC address is the only factor they have in tracing the
connection back to you.

Did I summarize the implications of changing the MAC address correctly?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> QUESTION:
>> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.

Hi Dana,

Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.

CASE 1:
In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.

CASE 2:
In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.

CASE 3:
However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a temporary
change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:00:45 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <1m2g2nhwk5ckw$.8qr6ipjz2j4g$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>>> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
>>> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
>>> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
>>> system. And other things that I don't even know.
>>
>> No, we don't get your MAC address.
>
>Hi Warren Oates,
>
>I guess I was wrong.
>
>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

No.

Do you believe everything you hear?

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
>>> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
>>> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).
>>
>> Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
>> out that information.
>
>Hi Dana,
>I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
>answers.
>
>May I ask again?
>
>TEST: Assume this scenario:
>- I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
>- I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
>- I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
>back to me
>- I disconnect from NetZero
>- I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8
>
>QUESTION:
>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

No.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:24:36 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <1bmxxlp6c5bep.17uhbudn22tqq.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:42:17 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> They can't figure any of that out from an IP, no matter how hard they
>> try. The best someone can do from your IP is work out which town
>> you're posting from.
>
>Hi Mark,
>Are you sure about that?

I am.

>It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
>address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted (assuming
>you kept the same IP address the whole time) just by grabbing the header
>line that stores your nntp posting host (which in my case, is unique).
>
>If I can do it that easily (and you've already said I am computer
>illiterate), I shudder to think how easy it would be for a "bad guy" to do
>it for me.
>
>What is wrong with what I said above?

You don't understand how the Internet works.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:15:38 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <6reykj1cl80a$.svm6xifnvsrq.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:51:59 -0800, Dana wrote:
>>> Isn't that a case where the MAC address change afforded me some privacy?
>>> Or did I give myself away even then?
>>
>> The person would have never seen your MAC address, unless they got a court
>> order for your ISP to show it to them.
>> The only mac address a station will see, is the next station upstream.
>
>Hi Dana,
>Sorry to keep hammering on this but the question I asked was "didn't
>changing the MAC address add a modicum of privacy to my email"?

Nope. Nada. Zilch.

>For example, if she had a packet sniffer or if she got a court order to
>track the email, wouldn't the MAC address have been a key component of the
>traceback?
>
>And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
>extra level of privacy to that traceback?
>
>Yes or no is what I'd expect the answer to be.

Nope. Nada. Zilch.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:02 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
>>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?
> No.
> Do you believe everything you hear?

Hi John Navas,

I was under the impression that the MAC address contained two parts.

The first part identified the manufacturer and the second part uniquely
identified the unit.

That unit (probably a daughterboard card or part of the motherboard) could
then easily be traced back to the serial number of the computer.

Which, in turn, could be traced to an individual owner of that computer by
a variety of common methods.

Is that not true?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 03:46:08 GMT, Aluxe wrote
in <3kn3ltmeeamz$.1wu7pl3dxqsj0.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:29:43 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:12:08 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
>> wrote:
>>
>>>All I'm trying to do is get a different IP address in an easier (read
>>>software) way.
>>
>> Sure, but the question is, why? What good does it do you?
>
>I'm trying to gain 'free' anonimity.
>That's all.

There is no such thing. Get over it. I'm done with this waste of time.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
Wi-Fi How To:
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:49 GMT, John Navas wrote::
>>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No.

Hi John Navas,
I agree with you (and Dana) about these two cases:
CASE 1:
Changing the MAC when dialed into your own ISP provides no extra privacy.

CASE 2:
Changing the MAC when dialed into NetZero, effectively provides no extra
privacy.

But, is it the same answer for a free hotspot?

CASE 3:
Does changing the MAC address when connected to a free anonymous hotspot
provide any extra level of privacy?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Steve Riley [MSFT] wrote:
> An IP address is only an identifier. Knowledge of an identifier is
> never enough to attack a system. By doing the right things, such as
> running a firewall and maintaining good anti-malware, then it matters
> not whether someone knows your IP address or how long you happen to
> be using it.
>
> Don't rely on secrecy as an element of security. The bad guys will
> find you anyway.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Steve Riley
> steve.riley@microsoft.com
> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>
>
> "Aluxe" wrote in message
> news:8fe6c1ra451z.1t1ksdcxm3n25.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:28:24 GMT, Stuart Miller wrote:
> > First - what do you seek to accomplish by the frequent changes?
>
> Hi Stuart,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to ask a probing question. I
> understand the
> concept of security in that it comprises little things and big
> things
> together.
>
> Adding big things, like turning on a firewall, using strong
> encryption,
> shutting down the computer when not in use, etc. are, of course,
> additive
> to security.
>
> Little things, like changing the password, changing the MAC address,
> changing the SSID, changing the IP address, etc., are also additive
> to
> security.
>
> The whole point is to make the bad guys do more work to follow your
> footsteps and invade on your privacy.
>
> For example, I seal my snail mail. I lick that horrid tasting
> envelope and
> I shut it down tight. Do I think that will stop a determined
> snooper. No
> way. But I do it as a "little thing" to enhance my security.
>
> Anyone who seals their envelope should understand why I'd want to
> change my
> IP address periodically.
>
> The question is "What is the easiest way to release that lease on
> the IP
> address such that it is easy to regain a new IP address in a few
> hours'
> time?".

I'll play the devil's advocate here. Even though it may not be noticeable
for everyday use what about generating a report from a large database like
the ones that always seem to be on lost/stolen laptops? It seems we are
always hearing about 100's of thousands of compromised identities when a
laptop is stolen. If these are stored in a SQL database then a measurable
slowdown may indeed be perceptible when generating reports from that
database. Knowing in advance what the actual slowdown is would allow someone
contemplating using bitlocker to compare it to other solutions.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:el08vggrgg3b$.34blm2k3v78j$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:34:50 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> And, if it was, wouldn't the bogus MAC address I provided have added an
> >> extra level of privacy to that traceback?
> >
> > No, because your isp would know it is associated with your account,
hence
> > they would have to give that info out if there was a court order.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I do appreciate your taking the time to explain this to me.
> Let me see if I have it correct this time:
>
> CASE 1 (home ISP):
> In the case of a home ISP, where I have to log in with a user name and a
> password from a dedicated account, changing the MAC address provides
> absolutely no additional privacy since the ISP knows the MAC address used,
> even if it is 00-00-00-00-00-00.

Yes, that is how the protocol works. The next upstream device (your ISP has
to know what mac address to send the replies to.
>
> CASE 2 (NetZero dialup):
> Even in the case of NetZero dialup, there may not be an additional level
of
> privacy gained by changing the MAC address because you have to first
> establish an account with NetZero which requires a previous account which
> will have your original MAC address associated with it - which can always
> be traced back to you by your ISP.

They may have your original MAC, but they will now use whatever MAC address
you are using now, as that identifies the machine you are using.
So if you log on using your friends lap top, netzero will associate you to
that lap top once you sign in.
>
> CASE 3 (hotel free hotspot):
> However, in the case of a hotel freebie hotspot, changing the MAC address
> to 00-00-00-00-00-00 DOES PROVIDE AN EXTRA LEVEL OF PRIVACY because in
this
> case, the MAC address is the only factor they have in tracing the
> connection back to you.

I am thinking this is a yes. When you change your MAC, that is a software
mac, yet your NIC has a burned in address. I am not sure if your first
connection to the hotspot will use the burned in address, or the software
changed MAC.
I will have to look into this one. For now I will say yes it works like you
are saying.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1frsu1jxpmmcq$.vkb0d7mzmta9$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> QUESTION:
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
> wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.
>
> CASE 1:
> In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
> with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.
>
> CASE 2:
> In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
> the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.
>
> CASE 3:
> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a
temporary
> change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?

For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC, that cannot be change
by you. When you change your MAC, you are telling the protocol to use the
MAC address you provide, vice the normally used burned in MAC. I need to see
how the protocol works to establish the public free connection. I am pretty
sure it is going to use the MAC you tell it to use and not use the burned in
address. Of course you would have to change this mac prior to enabling the
wireless adapter, or else the wireless adapter would communicate with the
hotspot network looking for a connection using the burned in address.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:wz955p5whmg4$.18d9wx0vriwom$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:02 GMT, John Navas wrote:
> >>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all
my
> >>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?
> > No.
> > Do you believe everything you hear?
>
> Hi John Navas,
>
> I was under the impression that the MAC address contained two parts.
>
> The first part identified the manufacturer and the second part uniquely
> identified the unit.

What is called the NIC, network interface card.
This is where you plug in the cable from your ISP.
Can be a standalone card, or now it is a chip on the mother board.

>
> That unit (probably a daughterboard card or part of the motherboard) could
> then easily be traced back to the serial number of the computer.

So long as you do not replace it. The serial number of the computer will
never be used over the network, nor does the NIC care what the serial number
is.
The burned in MAC address is all the NIC cares about.
>
> Which, in turn, could be traced to an individual owner of that computer by
> a variety of common methods.

Yes, by using that MAC addressed which will be shown to be associated to
your ISP account once you log in, or hook that computer up to your always on
DSL/cable connection.
What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of your
DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find a
way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.
>
> Is that not true?

Mostly yes.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1frsu1jxpmmcq$.vkb0d7mzmta9$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> QUESTION:
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
> wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.

Like we have been trying to tell you.
Now realize that if you want to stay anon on the net, the use of a proxy
server while you surf, will slow you down a little, but would conceal what
IP you are using.
For mail and newsgroup posting, a remailer works, yes I gave you one link
already that may have been expensive, but you could probably find one
cheaper depending on how much you expect to post and download.
Really the only one who has the goods on you, is your ISP. But unless they
have a reason (court order, complaints, etc ) they are not tracking you.
There is technology that will track surfing behavior and block sites that
are not allowed.
Kuwait and other middle eastern countries and I heard China tracks your
surfing and blocks sites.
The military network has devices installed where it records what sites
people go to by MAC address, so the military can identify what computer was
used. Yes the military tracks which MAC address is assigned to what computer
(the units I supported recently in Iraq were).

>
> CASE 1:
> In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
> with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.
>
> CASE 2:
> In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
> the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.
>
> CASE 3:
> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a
temporary
> change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weeklyon DSL

Aluxe wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:24:11 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
>
>>Make him even MORE pranoid. Tell him about Tempest Monitoring :-)
>
>
> Oh my.
>
> Apparently, unless I drape a wire mesh over my computer monitor, anyone can
> read what I am typing from 300 yards away with just 100 dollars of common
> equipment!
>
> http://bss.sfsu.edu/fischer/IR%20360/Readings/tempest.htm

You need to change your meds Aluxe.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weeklyon DSL

Steve Riley [MSFT] wrote:
> An IP address is only an identifier. Knowledge of an identifier is never
> enough to attack a system. By doing the right things, such as running a
> firewall and maintaining good anti-malware, then it matters not whether
> someone knows your IP address or how long you happen to be using it.
>
> Don't rely on secrecy as an element of security. The bad guys will find
> you anyway.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Steve Riley
> steve.riley@microsoft.com
> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>
>
>
> "Aluxe" >
> wrote in message news:8fe6c1ra451z.1t1ksdcxm3n25.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:28:24 GMT, Stuart Miller wrote:
> > First - what do you seek to accomplish by the frequent changes?
>
> Hi Stuart,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to ask a probing question. I
> understand the
> concept of security in that it comprises little things and big things
> together.
>
> Adding big things, like turning on a firewall, using strong encryption,
> shutting down the computer when not in use, etc. are, of course,
> additive
> to security.
>
> Little things, like changing the password, changing the MAC address,
> changing the SSID, changing the IP address, etc., are also additive to
> security.
>
> The whole point is to make the bad guys do more work to follow your
> footsteps and invade on your privacy.
>
> For example, I seal my snail mail. I lick that horrid tasting
> envelope and
> I shut it down tight. Do I think that will stop a determined snooper. No
> way. But I do it as a "little thing" to enhance my security.
>
> Anyone who seals their envelope should understand why I'd want to
> change my
> IP address periodically.
>
> The question is "What is the easiest way to release that lease on the IP
> address such that it is easy to regain a new IP address in a few hours'
> time?".


-- Isn't the average time to get an
intrusion attempt/probe while on the net
about 15 mins? So you would need to
change your IP address constantly if you
considered this to be a form of security

Cheers Tom

* Thankfully this message was not
scanned by AVG Free *

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

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Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:c6l1h5gzj5kf$.1z5l96isp7hd.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:24:04 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>>> All I'm asking is for the easiest software way to change my IP address
>>> without having to give up the lease by shutting down all the equipment.
>>
>> It's worthless.
>
> Hi Duane,
> I thank you for the suggested URLs which I read with interest.
> Please don't feel I am picking on you when I report the following
> information.
> You happen to list your NNTP posting host, as do I, so you are just easily
> tracked, that's all.
>
> YOUR NNTP POSTING HOST: 4.252.215.137

It doesn't mean anything in the long run as it changes each time I dial-up
to the ISP and the IP changes. And even if I was not using a dial-up
connection, it doesn't mean *jack*.

> YOUR APPROXIMATE LOCATION: Chicago
> YOUR ASSUMED ISP: EarthLink Inc. in Colorado

So? It doesn't mean anything to me and I am not so paranoid to think that it
means anything to anyone else. It would mean something if I was doing some
kind of Internet crime, where I would want to hide any traces of my
activities.

> YOUR ASSUMED NEWSREADER: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869

So? I use a couple of NG readers. Again what is your point here?

> YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM: Microsoft Windows XP (based on the above
> newsreader)

So? I have a couple of O/S(s) I use. What is your point here?

The only thing that matters in all of this is if my real e-mail address is
posted.

> You're a programmer by trade having started in 1971 as an IT employee.
> You write insurance applications, among other tasks since 1980.

So? Who cares about this? I don't even care about it.

> You've contracted with Maine, and Ohio, Minnesota, and Illinois on
> taxation
> software in the past, mostly on Microsoft platforms as you're not a friend
> of Linux.

So? Who cares about this?

I have Linux running on my network, when it's up and running.

I am on the road now. So what is your point here with any of it?

> Your posts: many hundreds each of which supplies a bit of your personality

Well, I am being impersonated on the Internet by a troll, and I am not
making hundreds of posts.

This information you have posted doesn't mean *jack* to me and anyone can
read it if they wanted to do that. It only means something to you and your
paranoia.

I don't know what the purpose of you making all these posts to various
people, along with this ridiculous post, but as far as I am concerned, you
need to stop posting as it's making you look kind of pathetic with all of
this privacy BS. ;-)

Man oh man

Duane :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:50:16 -0800, Dana wrote:

>> CASE 3:
>> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot.
>> Wouldn't a prior change of the MAC address add privacy?
>
> For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
> As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC,
> that cannot be changed by you.

The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?) bit
on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the burned-in MAC
or a modified MAC.

So, as far as I know, the only thing they can tell is that you're not using
the original MAC ... but that in and of itself doesn't give them the
original MAC (AFAIK).

The problem with this assumption (of the change bit) is that means the MAC
address is NOT the FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF we think it is because that doesn't
allow for the change bit. This change-bit part confuses me.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:33:01 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>> Assuming a free hotspot ...
>> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No.

Hi Warren Oates,
I think this particular question is still out for a reasonable jury to
decide.

My hypothesis (needs to stand the test of reason) is that all "they" know
about the computer and owner is the (bogus) MAC address and the fact that
the bogus MAC address is not the original burned-in MAC address (due to a
presumed change bit being flipped that you can not unflip once you change
the MAC address). They don't have any other identifying information (other
than the content of the messages sent by this means).

One other question I have is what happens if you change the MAC address
back.

Does than 'unchange' the change bit on the MAC address?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:01:35 -0800, Dana wrote:
> What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of your
> DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find a
> way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
> probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.

Hi Dana,

We're getting somewhere here. I'm sorry I was so thick as to not understand
prior comments about changing the MAC address not adding privacy under most
curcumstances. But, I still think under the free hotspot circumstance,
changing the MAC address is additive to privacy.

I can answer your concerns above - having done it many times .
yes
no
maybe

Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/macmakeup/macmakeup.asp

No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
nothing bad has happened).

Maybe there is a change bit (I read that somewhere) in the MAC address so
the ISP and the hotel lobby both know you changed the MAC address. In the
case of the ISP, they never had your original MAC address (since I changed
it looong ago before joining my current ISP) ... so all they ever had were
the random MAC addresses but they can associate some of those random MAC
addresses to me so I must be careful not to reuse them.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Aluxe wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:52:45 -0500, Lil' Abner wrote:
> >> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
> >
> > The way you're doing it is about the only way it can be done.
>
> Hi Lil' Abner,
> Thank you for taking the time to try to advise a fellow computer user.
> I was hoping that there was a simple software way to lose the lease on the
> IP address and then come back an hour later and regain the lease.
>
> I have a few computers on the home network, so I wonder if I go to each and
> do an ipconfig /release it would work?
>
> Do you think that will work?
>

As other's have said yes a script can do this, however, what you'd
likely accomplish is releasing/renewing the lease of the IP on your LAN
(ie: between your computers and access point/router). What you really
want to accomplish is scripting a release/renew (with a hour or two
between aparently) between your modem and ISP, which is not easily
accomplished.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:15:50 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> I'm not even sure how a [PC] MAC address is relevant.
> My ISP only sees the MAC address of my router.

Hmmm... I am learning of the subtlties of privacy.

CASE 1 (ISP from a home network):
Is it true that the ISP never sees the spoofed PC MAC address; the ISP only
sees the ROUTER MAC address?

CASE 2 (modem dialup to NetZero from a blocked phone):
NetZero only sees your spoofed MAC address assuming you obtained the
NetZero software separately (e.g., from a library computer). However, the
initial establishment of an account may provide identifying information
since it requires an email address and a valid ISP just to download the
NetZero software. Even if you saved the NetZero software on a flash card,
you still would have needed to establish an initial connection to NetZero
to obtain the software even if that were years ago - which is the weak
link (as far as we can tell).

CASE 3 (free hotspot):
It seems that changing the MAC address prior to connection is additive to
privacy. I think there is a "change bit" which indicates the MAC address
were changed but I am unsure of that.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 18 Oct 2006 07:14:51 -0700, kingthorin@gmail.com wrote:
> What you really want to accomplish is scripting a release/renew
> between your modem and ISP, which is not easily accomplished.

Hi kingthorin,
I much appreciate your willingness to help and your reasonable ideas.
What always works is to unplug BOTH the modem & router overnight.

Note an "ipconfig /all" does NOT tell us the new IP address of the ROUTER;
I have to obtain the new router IP address from my NNTP server posting line
in my subsequent USENET posts.

Also note that I can't seem to "force" the PPPOE dialup by the router from
the computer so often I need to unplug and replug in the linksys router to
force the router to dial into the dsl isp.

Is there any way you know of to force the linksys router to dial into the
PPPOE account on demand?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:09:52 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
> Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/macmakeup/macmakeup.asp
>
> No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> nothing bad has happened).

Oh my!

I finally understand I've been changing the wrong MAC address in the case
of the ISP because in this home-networking case, I am behind a ROUTER.

So, it's the router's MAC that I should have been changing.

Ouch. I was dumb. I was wasting my time.

I don't know how to change the linksys router's MAC yet. But, even so, I
understand that in CASE 1 (home ISP), changing the MAC isn't additive to
privacy so it's a moot point.

But, if I did change the router's MAC, it _might_ wreak havoc with the ISP
as you noted (I would assume not though as you can change routers all you
want and it shouldn't bother the ISP).

I am learning from you all!
THANKS

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Warren Oates" wrote in message
news:45360c9f$0$5543$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> In article <12jbf5ifjqmhr9e@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Dana" wrote:
>
> > Your ISP will always have whatever MAC address you use, hence if they
were
> > given a court order, they would have to give it up.
>
> I'm not even sure how a MAC address is relevant. My ISP only sees the
> MAC address of my router. So what? And my router will let me change
> that, if I want.
>
> This is a nutbar.

More akin to how they busted foley.
Just by using your internet account. For a lot of us, that is our always on
connection to the internet.
You logged on to the internet from somewhere.
> --
> W. Oates
> Teal'c: He is concealing something.
> O'Neil: Like what?
> Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Warren Oates" wrote in message
news:453610a7$0$5595$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> In article <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> Aluxe wrote:
>
> > QUESTION:
> > Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> > brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No.

That was my point about the MAC. His changing it made no change in
identifying him, if someone really wanted too.

> --
> W. Oates
> Teal'c: He is concealing something.
> O'Neil: Like what?
> Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:15rr9bxve2jce.1k78vxx9eshov$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:33:01 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> >> Assuming a free hotspot ...
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No.
>
> Hi Warren Oates,
> I think this particular question is still out for a reasonable jury to
> decide.
>
> My hypothesis (needs to stand the test of reason) is that all "they" know
> about the computer and owner is the (bogus) MAC address and the fact that
> the bogus MAC address is not the original burned-in MAC address (due to a
> presumed change bit being flipped that you can not unflip once you change
> the MAC address). They don't have any other identifying information (other
> than the content of the messages sent by this means).

This really is now getting into computer forensics, kind of interesting.

>
> One other question I have is what happens if you change the MAC address
> back.
>
> Does than 'unchange' the change bit on the MAC address?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1v7ug0nbbi6a1.12l9iu6bomjvs$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:50:16 -0800, Dana wrote:
>
> >> CASE 3:
> >> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot.
> >> Wouldn't a prior change of the MAC address add privacy?
> >
> > For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
> > As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC,
> > that cannot be changed by you.
>
> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?) bit
> on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the burned-in MAC
> or a modified MAC.

I have needed to change MAC's for a couple of systems I worked on. I never
really dug that deep, I only knew that it was called a software MAC when I
would direct the PC to use the MAC I gave it, instead of the burned in
address. I read what Warren wrote, and I am now going to dig into that.
>
> So, as far as I know, the only thing they can tell is that you're not
using
> the original MAC ... but that in and of itself doesn't give them the
> original MAC (AFAIK).

No, if you are using the changed MAC address, they will not see the burned
in address, which really only identifies the NIC.
>
> The problem with this assumption (of the change bit) is that means the MAC
> address is NOT the FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF we think it is because that doesn't
> allow for the change bit. This change-bit part confuses me.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1t5h7zv6bwftc$.5wot8fcjgjwh.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:01:35 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of
your
> > DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find
a
> > way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
> > probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> We're getting somewhere here. I'm sorry I was so thick as to not
understand
> prior comments about changing the MAC address not adding privacy under
most
> curcumstances. But, I still think under the free hotspot circumstance,
> changing the MAC address is additive to privacy.

Besides the change bit, I tend to agree with the hotspot.
But you would have to change the address before an initial connection.
>
> I can answer your concerns above - having done it many times .
> yes
> no
> maybe
>
> Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/macmakeup/macmakeup.asp
>
> No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> nothing bad has happened).

Correct because they have no idea how many computers you may own or have
access to. They give you the login information, not a paticular device.

>
> Maybe there is a change bit (I read that somewhere) in the MAC address so
> the ISP and the hotel lobby both know you changed the MAC address. In the
> case of the ISP, they never had your original MAC address (since I changed
> it looong ago before joining my current ISP) ... so all they ever had were
> the random MAC addresses but they can associate some of those random MAC
> addresses to me so I must be careful not to reuse them.

This topic has really opened up some interesting issues.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:efkny47u3i04$.17uacptedm8qb.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:09:52 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
> > Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> > MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> > http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/macmakeup/macmakeup.asp
> >
> > No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> > nothing bad has happened).
>
> Oh my!
>
> I finally understand I've been changing the wrong MAC address in the case
> of the ISP because in this home-networking case, I am behind a ROUTER.
>
> So, it's the router's MAC that I should have been changing.

But even at that, if you are doing this from a DSL or cable modem or dial up
internet account, you have to log in. So once you log in with your account
info, whatever mac address you use will be associated to your name.
The only way around that would be to set up an account with a different
name.
That may work for awhile with a dial up account, but with a DSL or cable
Modem that is actually kind of placed at a paticular residence, just
changing your name may not hide the identity.
>
> Ouch. I was dumb. I was wasting my time.
>
> I don't know how to change the linksys router's MAC yet. But, even so, I
> understand that in CASE 1 (home ISP), changing the MAC isn't additive to
> privacy so it's a moot point.

You may want to post this question to the hacker type groups
>
> But, if I did change the router's MAC, it _might_ wreak havoc with the ISP
> as you noted (I would assume not though as you can change routers all you
> want and it shouldn't bother the ISP).

Not your router, but the cable modem or DSL modem, that is the last address
prior to hitting the network, so that would be the address to change, but
then that is usually your providers equipment, and they would probably be a
tad upset about you getting in there making changes like that.
>
> I am learning from you all!
> THANKS

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Duane Arnold" wrote in message
news:3jpZg.15496$UG4.102@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Aluxe" wrote in message
> news:c6l1h5gzj5kf$.1z5l96isp7hd.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:24:04 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> >>> All I'm asking is for the easiest software way to change my IP address
> >>> without having to give up the lease by shutting down all the
equipment.
> >>
> >> It's worthless.
> >
> > Hi Duane,
> > I thank you for the suggested URLs which I read with interest.
> > Please don't feel I am picking on you when I report the following
> > information.
> > You happen to list your NNTP posting host, as do I, so you are just
easily
> > tracked, that's all.
> >
> > YOUR NNTP POSTING HOST: 4.252.215.137
>
> It doesn't mean anything in the long run as it changes each time I dial-up
> to the ISP and the IP changes. And even if I was not using a dial-up
> connection, it doesn't mean *jack*.

I may be wrong here, but I believe the NNTP posting host will be a news
server from the ISP. So depending on how many news servers they have for
where you connect, this address may not change that often if you post from
the same location.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Gotta add my 2 cents to this:

You use many real world examples to try and justify what you are trying
to protect. But changing your IP is not really the same thing as
closing the bathroom stall door as you put it. It more like just moving
over to the next stall.

Closing the blinds, closing the door, closing your windows, locking
your car. All firewall similes.
Going out and moving your car a couple of spots over, that would be
changing your IP.

Leaving your purse in the shopping cart. vs
Leaving your purse in the shopping cart in one aisle over. Same end
effect as changing your IP. The person that wants the purse only has to
walk one more aisle over. Don't know about you, but that doesn't take
much effort if I want that purse.

Now locking your doors and rolling up your windows (firewall) vs
locking your doors and rolling up your windows and moving your car over
a couple of spots in the same parking lot (firewall and changing IP)
added nothing for security. It just means the person looking just had
to move over a couple of spots. Not only is this useless but it doesn't
take real amount of time. Once again, walking that extra little bit if
I want your car or its contents isn't going to do anything.

Also, you grabbed another posters information earlier to show the ease
to retrieve informaiton. Question is, was this information that the
poster had freely posted before? I find it safe to assume that if I
were to post it, then people are going to know about it. If I don't
want people to know it, I don't post it. So really, to say you've
discovered something about a person when the person sat there and told
a large group of people isn't much of an acomplishment.

Since I am posting from a static address, people are going to be able
to tell where I work. Good for them. Here I'll make it easy: I work for
a company called PAMI.
Now people know and will be able to look it up for a long time to come.
Does it matter? Of course not. Had it mattered I wouldn't have posted
it.
So if you do not people knowing were you work or such information,
don't post it.

FBI director wants ISPs to track users

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/cnet/2006-10-18-isp-tr acking_x.htm
FBI director wants ISPs to track users
Declan McCullagh, for News.com

FBI Director Robert Mueller on Tuesday called on Internet service providers
to record their customers' online activities, a move that anticipates a
fierce debate over privacy and law enforcement in Washington next year.
"Terrorists coordinate their plans cloaked in the anonymity of the Internet,
as do violent sexual predators prowling chat rooms," Mueller said in a
speech at the International Association of Chiefs of Police conference in
Boston.
"All too often, we find that before we can catch these offenders, Internet
service providers have unwittingly deleted the very records that would help
us identify these offenders and protect future victims," Mueller said. "We
must find a balance between the legitimate need for privacy and law
enforcement's clear need for access."
The speech to the law enforcement group, which approved a resolution on the
topic earlier in the day, echoes other calls from Bush administration
officials to force private firms to record information about customers.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, for instance, told Congress last month
that "this is a national problem that requires federal legislation."
Justice Department officials admit privately that data retention legislation
is controversial enough that there wasn't time to ease it through the U.S.
Congress before politicians left to campaign for re-election. Instead, the
idea is expected to surface in early 2007, and one Democratic politician has
already promised legislation.
Law enforcement groups claim that by the time they contact Internet service
providers, customers' records may be deleted in the routine course of
business. Industry representatives, however, say that if police respond to
tips promptly instead of dawdling, it would be difficult to imagine any
investigation that would be imperiled.
It's not clear exactly what a data retention law would require. One proposal
would go beyond Internet providers and require registrars, the companies
that sell domain names, to maintain records too. And during private meetings
with industry officials, FBI and Justice Department representatives have
cited the desirability of also forcing search engines to keep logs - a
proposal that could gain additional law enforcement support after AOL showed
how useful such records could be in investigations.
A representative of the International Association of Chiefs of Police said
he was not able to provide a copy of the resolution.
Preservation vs. retention
At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log file
that's no longer required for business reasons such as network monitoring,
fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, however, alter that
general rule when contacted by police performing an investigation-a practice
called data preservation.
A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional Records
Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers to retain
any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request of a
governmental entity."
Because Internet addresses remain a relatively scarce commodity, ISPs tend
to allocate them to customers from a pool based on if a computer is in use
at the time. (Two standard techniques used are the Dynamic Host
Configuration Protocol and Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet.)
In addition, Internet providers are required by another federal law to
report child pornography sightings to the National Center for Missing and
Exploited Children, which is in turn charged with forwarding that report to
the appropriate police agency.
When adopting its data retention rules, the European Parliament approved
U.K.-backed requirements saying that communications providers in its 25
member countries-several of which had enacted their own data retention laws
already-must retain customer data for a minimum of six months and a maximum
of two years.
The Europe-wide requirement applies to a wide variety of "traffic" and
"location" data, including: the identities of the customers' correspondents;
the date, time and duration of phone calls, VoIP (voice over Internet
Protocol) calls or e-mail messages; and the location of the device used for
the communications. But the "content" of the communications is not supposed
to be retained. The rules are expected to take effect in 2008.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Dana" wrote in message
news:12jcmlrti8opv2c@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Duane Arnold" wrote in message
> news:3jpZg.15496$UG4.102@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Aluxe" wrote in message
>> news:c6l1h5gzj5kf$.1z5l96isp7hd.dlg@40tude.net...
>> > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:24:04 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> >>> All I'm asking is for the easiest software way to change my IP
>> >>> address
>> >>> without having to give up the lease by shutting down all the
> equipment.
>> >>
>> >> It's worthless.
>> >
>> > Hi Duane,
>> > I thank you for the suggested URLs which I read with interest.
>> > Please don't feel I am picking on you when I report the following
>> > information.
>> > You happen to list your NNTP posting host, as do I, so you are just
> easily
>> > tracked, that's all.
>> >
>> > YOUR NNTP POSTING HOST: 4.252.215.137
>>
>> It doesn't mean anything in the long run as it changes each time I
>> dial-up
>> to the ISP and the IP changes. And even if I was not using a dial-up
>> connection, it doesn't mean *jack*.
>
> I may be wrong here, but I believe the NNTP posting host will be a news
> server from the ISP. So depending on how many news servers they have for
> where you connect, this address may not change that often if you post from
> the same location.
>

Who cares about it? Am I missing something here? Who cares about some IP the
ISP's NG server is using?

What does any of this have to do with the security of my machine or anyone's
machine? Or even, what does any of it mean in protecting some privacy that
the ISP is using for its NG server is not changing?

That IP should not be changing in the first place and if it did change, then
the NG server is using a DHCP IP, which most likely it's not and is using a
static IP that doesn't change. But again, what does it have to do with
anything in the context of the post about *privacy and security*?

The only IP that would mean anything is the IP the ISP assigned to my
machine so that I can have an Internet connection between my machine and
the ISP's network to the Internet, which changes every time I dial-up and
make a connection with the ISP's network.

I don't even care about some kind of privacy aspects that are trying to be
pointed out in the original post, because none of it means anything with
protecting some kind of privacy.

This whole thread is much to do about nothing.

Duane :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1g5u1r8q8ztgp$.1a9ngqoflqnt2.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:19 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
>> All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is
>> the ONLY News Group
>> you need to post to.
>>
> Hi David,
> I don't know what a COMSEC is but I will look it up.

There is a lot of interesting technical discussion here, but I would like to
take a different approach
From all the posts here and on the 'firewall' newsgroup, I believe I
understand what Aluxe is after.

Certainly we can trace posts here by screen name or IP (of the router) , and
if the IP changes it would make it more difficult to correlate posts if made
under a different name.
When we post, we expect that our message will be read, and the consequence
of that is that we identify ourselves to some degree. Some of us hide our
e-mail address - I don't mind if mine shows.

There was mention made of posts to 'personals' type groups, and not wishing
these posts to be correlated with technical posts. The use of different
'screen names' helps. But there is still the matter of IP address.
Somebody could determine my IP address, and scan all usenet posts for today
and discover that I also posted to the 'windows98' group, because a post
there had the same IP address, even if it was under a different name. If I
had used a different screen name AND had changed my IP address, that
correlation could not be made.
It is worth noting that nobody 'owns' a usenet screen name - I have seen the
same name used by different posters. Therefore posts having the same 'screen
name' suggests but does not proove that they were made by the same person.

It would appear that, in order to cover ones tracks for this scenario, one
would have to do the technical (public) posts from home and either use a
different name with dial up, a public computer, or take the laptop to a
hotspot for the 'personals' posts. These can still be traced to some degree,
but with normal tools could not correlate the technical poster with the
'personals' poster.

This has nothing to do with security, but does grant a measure of privacy.

Comments?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Stuart Miller" wrote in message
news:EouZg.161589$R63.41013@pd7urf1no...
>
> "Aluxe" wrote in message
> news:1g5u1r8q8ztgp$.1a9ngqoflqnt2.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:58:19 GMT, David H. Lipman wrote:
> >> All of your subject matter is on COMSEC and alt.computer.security is
> >> the ONLY News Group
> >> you need to post to.
> >>
> > Hi David,
> > I don't know what a COMSEC is but I will look it up.
>
> There is a lot of interesting technical discussion here, but I would like
to
> take a different approach
> From all the posts here and on the 'firewall' newsgroup, I believe I
> understand what Aluxe is after.
>
> Certainly we can trace posts here by screen name or IP (of the router) ,
and
> if the IP changes it would make it more difficult to correlate posts if
made
> under a different name.
> When we post, we expect that our message will be read, and the consequence
> of that is that we identify ourselves to some degree. Some of us hide our
> e-mail address - I don't mind if mine shows.
>
> There was mention made of posts to 'personals' type groups, and not
wishing
> these posts to be correlated with technical posts. The use of different
> 'screen names' helps. But there is still the matter of IP address.
> Somebody could determine my IP address, and scan all usenet posts for
today
> and discover that I also posted to the 'windows98' group, because a post
> there had the same IP address, even if it was under a different name. If I
> had used a different screen name AND had changed my IP address, that
> correlation could not be made.
> It is worth noting that nobody 'owns' a usenet screen name - I have seen
the
> same name used by different posters. Therefore posts having the same
'screen
> name' suggests but does not proove that they were made by the same person.
>
> It would appear that, in order to cover ones tracks for this scenario, one
> would have to do the technical (public) posts from home and either use a
> different name with dial up, a public computer, or take the laptop to a
> hotspot for the 'personals' posts. These can still be traced to some
degree,
> but with normal tools could not correlate the technical poster with the
> 'personals' poster.
>
> This has nothing to do with security, but does grant a measure of privacy.
>
> Comments?

Interesting remarks. Especially when we now see that the FBI wants to force
the ISP's to track the users of their systems.
So what to do about privacy. Concerning your broadband connection to an ISP,
the cable/dsl modem would be the device used to identify you to the system.
This address while it probably can be changed, would probably result in the
ISP blocking your access, as now that address does not match their records.
So realizing that you cannot change that address, changing your own
computers address really does no good, as you could still be identified just
because of your connection to the broadband service. Using a dialup account
may be a bit harder, but you would still have to provide some form of
identification/authorization to log on, hence as a paying subscriber you
really cannot avoid being identified.
The free public hotspots, can remain free but I can see where in the future
they may have you log in to use the system, the room for abuse here is
large, so being tracked while using a free public hotspot may be difficult
at best, unless the providers are forced to implement strict accountability
procedures. I.E you have to show your drivers license to use the system, and
your license number will be associated with the MAC you use to connect. But
that takes a lot of oversight.
So where does that leave people like the OP who desires more privacy.
I see his only avenue would be to use proxy servers while surfing, and some
premium news group posting service that strips his headers and uses there
own headers as a way of remaining semi private.

>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Aluxe wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2006 07:14:51 -0700, kingthorin@gmail.com wrote:
> > What you really want to accomplish is scripting a release/renew
> > between your modem and ISP, which is not easily accomplished.
>
> Hi kingthorin,
> I much appreciate your willingness to help and your reasonable ideas.
> What always works is to unplug BOTH the modem & router overnight.
>
> Note an "ipconfig /all" does NOT tell us the new IP address of the ROUTER;
> I have to obtain the new router IP address from my NNTP server posting line
> in my subsequent USENET posts.
>
> Also note that I can't seem to "force" the PPPOE dialup by the router from
> the computer so often I need to unplug and replug in the linksys router to
> force the router to dial into the dsl isp.
>
> Is there any way you know of to force the linksys router to dial into the
> PPPOE account on demand?

You'd have to look at the mechanism in the web admin interface of your
linksys device but you can probably ues a windows version of wget
(http://pages.interlog.com/~tcharron/wgetwin.html) called by a batch
file scheduled through windows task scheduler to do that.

Also I did a quick search and it sounds like some linksys devices have
a "connect on demand" option. (Disable keep-alive, enable "connect on
demand" and set a timeout). So that when your router receives an
outbound request it initiates the PPPoE connection (login) and then
disconnects after the timeout (inactivity) period is passed (ie: 15
mins after it receives the last outbound request). It'll probably
depend exactly which device you have but it sounds like it may be worth
checking out.
This is based on information here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/6891
(go down to the "Connection Timers" section).

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

1) You probably cannot change the important information that allows
your ISP to know who you are, e.g. your MAC address, because if you
do your ISP will not know that your computer is yours and not let
you onto the net at all. Your ISP knows which customers are paying
it and only lets those customers users its facilities. Trying to
protect your IP at your home is a losing proposition.

2) If you go to a hotspot, you can probably spoof your mac address and
still be let onto the net (the hotspot vendor won't care, because
they are providing the service for "free") and you will probably
get a unique IP address (if you don't always go to the same
hotspot).

3) If you want to send anonymous emails and postings (such as
alt.personals), then you probably should use the appropriate
anonymizing services and/or "free email accounts". Note that there
are sites that convert emails into postings, so you can email from
such free accounts and still post into newsgroups. If you want to
be paranoid about that, use such accounts only from hotspots.

However, seriously consider your motivations for being hurtful.
It's really poor behavior. Are you really proud that you insulted
some woman who is now overweight that used to call you Twiggy?
Personally, I would find such behavior worse than the people who
send me spam. So, yes, you are abusing the system when you use
anonymity to do that.

4) Don't worry so much about your privacy at home. "We wouldn't care
what others thought about us, if we realized how seldom they do."
Your kids probably aren't that interested in your internet habits.
Moreover, the stuff which you should be embarrassed about, they
probably already know, since most of the important things about us
are things we can't hide at all. You just told the world that you
were willing to spite someone because they insulted you long ago--I
suspect that people who know you already knew that about you.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************************ *****************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?)
> bit on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the
> burned-in MAC or a modified MAC.

There's no such thing.

cu
59cobalt
--
"If a software developer ever believes a rootkit is a necessary part of
their architecture they should go back and re-architect their solution."
--Mark Russinovich

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Dana" wrote in message
news:12jalka11deq5e@corp.supernews.com
> People need to be aware that Wikipedia is not a real reference, and
> that the material there is not checked for accuracy.

Neither are any other sources, especially within Academia. lol

Like nothing is faster than the speed of light (Albert Einstein believed
this BS too), but gravity definitely is. Thus we live in a world of BS!
:(

--
Bill

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:03:48 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:33:03 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in,
>
>Hi Mark,
>
>I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
>reverse lookup on the Internet

At least in the UK, this is bollocks. Even if its true for phone
numbers it categorically is NOT true for IP addresses. You really
really need to learn about this stuff, instead of watching CSI and
imagining that fantasy where they websearch some dude from his
chatroom handle is for real.

>Having one person be able to identify you vs having ten thousand be able to
>identify you lets in a lot of kooks, don't you think?

FCOL.

Either you're a fool or a knave, I know not which.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:24:36 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:42:17 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> They can't figure any of that out from an IP, no matter how hard they
>> try. The best someone can do from your IP is work out which town
>> you're posting from.
>
>Hi Mark,
>Are you sure about that?
>
>It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
>address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted (assuming
>you kept the same IP address the whole time) just by grabbing the header
>line that stores your nntp posting host (which in my case, is unique).

Theoretically, if you had a database of every usenet post ever posted
by everyone in the world, you could find all the messages posted from
my current IP and look at them. So what? You could also go to google
groups and search for me by name, you'd find posts stretching back to
1995. None of this lets you track me down.

>What is wrong with what I said above?

Nothing, except you missed out the part where this is any sort of
privacy or security risk.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:09:06 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:49:33 -0800, Dana wrote:
>>> It seems to me that even I could save usenet posts and then save the IP
>>> address and from that, I could find EVERY post you ever posted
>>
>> Google search can do that just by typing in the name you post under.
>
>Not true. I go into my newsreader and change the name for each topic that I
>ask (I ask about once a month or so to solve a particularly vexing
>problem).

Sure, its harder if you change your handle. The point is you can't do
this with an IP address. You can't search usenet for IPs. You can
search whois for them but the info isn't specific to you, only to your
ISP.

You could of course set up your own newsserver with infinite retention
(and a couple of petabytes of diskspace) and capture every message.
You could then search for the IP, and determine all the handles you'd
used. Again, useless information.

>Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
>enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.

I give up. You are obviously paranoid, and nothing we say will
persuade you that you're chasing chimeras. Please do yourself a
favour.

>I think you've agreed with me that the IP address is the only other factor
>that can easily trace me with a simple search.

No they haven't. They've DISAGREED TOTALLY with that hypothesis.

Please actually try this. Try tracing yourself from your IP. The very
best you can get is the town you live in and your ISP. In your case
somewhere with an acronym of pltn13.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:37:29 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:50:14 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> The question is, why do you care? There are two possible answers:
>> 1) you're clinically paranoid
>> 2) you have a guilty concience
>
>Hi Mark McIntyre,
>
>Wanting privacy doesn't mean you're clinically paranoid.

Agreed. However insisting on idiotic security measures with no benefit
is either paranoia or ignorance.

>Are you saying everyone who closes the bathroom door is clinically paranoid?

You keep bringing this in as though it was relevant or comparable.
Here's a better metaphor:

Are you saying everyone who removes their mailbox and never answers
the phone is clinically paranoid? Or that they have a guilty
conscience?

>Are you implying

yadda yadda. Listing totally unrelated privacy issues is not going to
strengthen your case.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>QUESTION:
>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. For the duration
of your connection, your MAC (irrespective of what it was) was linked
in the ISP's DHCP database to your IP. If this didn't happen, then no
communication could take place between your computer and any servers.

If someone subpoena'ed your ISP, they would provide a list of the MACs
that connected from your line, and the IPs the MACs got. But the point
is, they need to subpoena your records,and for that they need to show
probable cause. How likely is that?

--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:18:39 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
wrote:

>If I kept the same IP address for, say, a year, wouldn't ALL my posts in
>that year have the same IP address on it?

Yes, but so what?
>
>If anyone wanted to gather up all my posts

From where? Which database do you plan to extract this from? Which ISP
do you know with infinite retention?

>(no matter what name or
>newsreader I used), wouldn't keeping the same IP address make that task
>trivial?

Lets be clear here: when you post to usenet it is broadcast public
information. You retain copyright, but anyone can read it, at any
time, in any location, for any purpose. If you find it creepy that
people can gather up your postings, you need to stop posting to public
fora. You don't have either the right or the power to control what
other people do with public information.

>Sort of like someone gathering up all my snail mail and reading it if they
>felt like it without having to bother opening the letters.

No, utterly different. Snail mail is NOT a broadcast medium, its a
private communication.

A better comparison would be with writing a magazine article. You
retain copyright, but anyone, anywhere, can read the magazine and if
they care to, snip out and keep all your articles forever. If you find
that creepy, you have to stop writing for magazines.
--
Mark McIntyre

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Mark McIntyre" skrev i meddelandet
news:baedj2tc7hbs2vncjpmuuto3ha2qcvei25@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
> wrote:
>
> >QUESTION:
> >Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. For the duration
> of your connection, your MAC (irrespective of what it was) was linked
> in the ISP's DHCP database to your IP. If this didn't happen, then no
> communication could take place between your computer and any servers.
>
> If someone subpoena'ed your ISP, they would provide a list of the MACs
> that connected from your line, and the IPs the MACs got. But the point
> is, they need to subpoena your records,and for that they need to show
> probable cause. How likely is that?



Which policy do Internet cafes all over the world
use to identify all people who use them?
Can I be sure that all of them identify everyone accessing their PCs?

--
Luigi Donatello Asero
https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
瑞典有 九百万人口大约

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Luigi Donatello Asero" skrev i meddelandet
news:6NzZg.20334$E02.8062@newsb.telia.net...
>
> "Mark McIntyre" skrev i meddelandet
> news:baedj2tc7hbs2vncjpmuuto3ha2qcvei25@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
> > wrote:
> >
> > >QUESTION:
> > >Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> > >brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. For the duration
> > of your connection, your MAC (irrespective of what it was) was linked
> > in the ISP's DHCP database to your IP. If this didn't happen, then no
> > communication could take place between your computer and any servers.
> >
> > If someone subpoena'ed your ISP, they would provide a list of the MACs
> > that connected from your line, and the IPs the MACs got. But the point
> > is, they need to subpoena your records,and for that they need to show
> > probable cause. How likely is that?
>
>
>
Which policy do Internet cafes all over the world
use to identify all people who use them?
Can I be sure that all of them identify everyone accessing their PCs?


By accessing I meant "making use of"

--
Luigi Donatello Asero
https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
瑞典有 九百万人口大约

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

> >Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
> >enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.

Another poor comparison. A firewall would be like the curtain actually
preventing people from looking into your dressing room. Changing your
IP --> You just move to another spot over and change there instead.
Changing your IP serves no purpose in terms of protection past a good
firewall. Without a good firewall then your IP is the least of your
problems.

Now just relax, setup some real security if you don't already have some
and don't worry about what your IP is. And as I said before: anything
someone gets off a newsgroup that you posted was obviously something
that you were not concerned about people getting or you wouldn't have
posted it to begin with.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:09:36 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> Am I missing something here?
> Who cares about some IP the ISP's NG server is using?

Hi Duane,

Yep. I think you're missing something. Either that, or I am. :)

Apparently in your world, the NNTP posting host is the ISP's news server.
If that were the case in my world, then the NNTP posting host would remain
static as I don't change that (even when I do change it, it wouldn't matter
as you'll soon see if you keep your eyes open).

You see, in my world ... unfortunately for me ... the NNTP posting host is
apparently my router's IP address. At least that is what seems to show up.

For example, my router currently is telling me that my IP address is
"69.110.8.45" based on a "Status" "Router" "IP Address" command in my web
browser connected to the router's port 80.

In your world, that wouldn't show up as your NNTP posting host but I
suspect that, in my world, that IP address will show up as my NNTP posting
host, no matter what actual NNTP posting host I choose out of the scores
provided to me by my ISP.

Let me know if I am right or wrong.
--
Aluxe (new IP address)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:49:11 -0800, Dana wrote:
> I may be wrong here, but I believe the NNTP posting host will be a news
> server from the ISP. So depending on how many news servers they have for
> where you connect, this address may not change that often if you post from
> the same location.

Hi Dana,

I very much appreciate your helpful tone. And technical sense.

We're peeling the onion here and I, for one, am learning a lot. I hope you
are too.

For example, I may be wrong, but, from my experience, no matter which of
the dozens of news servers available to me by my ISP that I choose, the
NNTP posting host seems to ALWAYS be my router's IP address!

For example, as I proved a moment ago, if I use a web browser to connect to
my router and if I go to the "Status" "Router" "IP Address" screen, I see
my current router's IP address is "69.110.8.45". That is what shows up as
my NNTP Posting Host! Notice my actual NNTP server is NOT what shows up as
my NNTP posting host.

To prove that, I just switched from one to another of the dozens of NNTP
news servers my ISP provides me. Guess what? I'll betcha my NNTP posting
host is still the same as the current IP address of my router
(69.110.8.45).

Is 69.110.8.45 still my NNTP posting host in my header above?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 18 Oct 2006 19:05:09 -0700, I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
>>>enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.
>
> Another poor comparison.

Hi I_AM_Raptor,

I do appreciate your honing of our analogies. With analogies, we can
communicate. For example, I've shown (I hope) with my basic analogies that
not everyone who desires a base modicum of privacy is to be automatically
considered overly paranoid.

Everyone is confusing one key point. I am not trying to hide from my ISP by
changing my IP address! I agree even before the first word was posted that
the IPS knows who I am at all moments (heck, I pay the bill with a check
that has my name and address on it). Anyone who insists on repeating that
changing the IP address doesn't hide me from the ISP is just plain off
base.

It's sort of like having an (IP) address on your driver license and then
changing it. You're never going to hide from the police by changing your
address on your driver's license but the local store that wrote it down
when you cashed your check now has a harder time casually finding you from
a simple (and all too common) database search.

That's all I was trying to do by changing my router's IP address (which
turns out to be the IP address attached as the NNTP posting host no matter
what I do).

If someone technical here can show me how to CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:129qq9jhp7aur.wav15g7ismuc$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:49:11 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > I may be wrong here, but I believe the NNTP posting host will be a news
> > server from the ISP. So depending on how many news servers they have for
> > where you connect, this address may not change that often if you post
from
> > the same location.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> I very much appreciate your helpful tone. And technical sense.
>
> We're peeling the onion here and I, for one, am learning a lot. I hope you
> are too.
>
> For example, I may be wrong, but, from my experience, no matter which of
> the dozens of news servers available to me by my ISP that I choose, the
> NNTP posting host seems to ALWAYS be my router's IP address!
>
> For example, as I proved a moment ago, if I use a web browser to connect
to
> my router and if I go to the "Status" "Router" "IP Address" screen, I see
> my current router's IP address is "69.110.8.45". That is what shows up as
> my NNTP Posting Host! Notice my actual NNTP server is NOT what shows up as
> my NNTP posting host.
>
> To prove that, I just switched from one to another of the dozens of NNTP
> news servers my ISP provides me. Guess what? I'll betcha my NNTP posting
> host is still the same as the current IP address of my router
> (69.110.8.45).
>
> Is 69.110.8.45 still my NNTP posting host in my header above?

I looked it up. it is indeed the address of the posting client.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:07 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>If anyone wanted to gather up all my posts
>
> From where? Which database do you plan to extract this from? Which ISP
> do you know with infinite retention?

Uh. Google Groups http://groups.google.com

I see my posts dating back to 1990 (some of which I am embarrassed about as
they used my maiden name and my young kids don't even know I was previously
married).

Luckily I haven't posted using my real name in more than a decade, but, I
can still easily find all my alt.personals type posts dating back to the
early nineties in about a nanosecond when I was still married to my first
husband.

Don't you realize each and every usenet post archived by google has the
NNTP posting host and my NNTP posting host uniquely identifies me, whether
I like it or not. If I had kept the same IP address, then all those posts
can be tied together by my kids and my spouse and by some kook out there
(you?).

I just want to post without having a connection to earlier posts that even
a grade school child could follow. It's just a little additive privacy that
is so simple to accomplish if I could only figure out a software way to
tell the router to dial back into the PPPoE connection.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:33:54 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> For the duration of your connection, your MAC (irrespective of what it was)
> was linked in the ISP's DHCP database to your IP.

Hi Mark McIntyre,

I'm getting a big frustrated trying to help you.

Why can't you get it into your head that I'm not at all worried about my
ISP knowing who I am at every moment. I pay the bill every month to them
for Christ sake!

Sorry for the short tone ... but why you assume I'm worried about my ISP
knowing who I am makes me worry just a bit about you and your rationality.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Aluxe wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:09:21 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> >>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
> >>approximately two or three times a week.
> >
> > A pointless waste of time and effort, giving you neither privacy or
> > security.
>
> All security is pointless if you think your way.
> There are big things you can do to raise security and little things.
>
> Big things are obvious (like locking your car doors or not doing personal
> email at work).
>
> But, little security measures add up too.

Don't forget to modulate your shield frequencies.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> You can't search usenet for IPs.

Hi Mark McIntyre,

Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.

For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
address).

If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
those kind of searches in that same minute.

Can't you?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1vgc57xuc64am.111g0or8twxgw$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:09:36 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> Am I missing something here?
>> Who cares about some IP the ISP's NG server is using?
>
> Hi Duane,
>
> Yep. I think you're missing something. Either that, or I am. :)
>
> Apparently in your world, the NNTP posting host is the ISP's news server.
> If that were the case in my world, then the NNTP posting host would remain
> static as I don't change that (even when I do change it, it wouldn't
> matter
> as you'll soon see if you keep your eyes open).

There is nothing you can do about *anything* when it comes to the IP the NG
server is using. You're (your machine is just) a client and you the client
can do *nothing* about the IP being used by the NNTP server.

http://www.tech-faq.com/nntp.shtml


>
> You see, in my world ... unfortunately for me ... the NNTP posting host is
> apparently my router's IP address. At least that is what seems to show up.

So, the information about the IP that's assigned to your router from the ISP
to communicate on their network and the NNTP are the same IP. It's only an
IP that's pointing back to the ISP's network It doesn't mean that the IP is
pointing to an NNTP server.

>
> For example, my router currently is telling me that my IP address is
> "69.110.8.45" based on a "Status" "Router" "IP Address" command in my web
> browser connected to the router's port 80.
>
> In your world, that wouldn't show up as your NNTP posting host but I
> suspect that, in my world, that IP address will show up as my NNTP posting
> host, no matter what actual NNTP posting host I choose out of the scores
> provided to me by my ISP.

Port 80 and port (119 NNTP port) are two different ports and two different
protcols. HTTP traffic is on port 80 and NNTP traffic is on port 119. The
common factor is the IP assigned by the ISP to the modem, your public IP.
But I would suspect that port 119 traffic is forwarded/routed to another
IP/machine on the ISP's network whether or not the NNTP server is
physically sitting on the ISP's network.



But again, what does any of this have to do with the context of your
original post about *secuirty and privacy*?



I'll tell you. It means nothing.



Duane :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:m15nlb3pua0h$.17k8fg61f2j4l$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> > You can't search usenet for IPs.
>
> Hi Mark McIntyre,
>
> Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.
>
> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
> alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
> address).

Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

>
> If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
> those kind of searches in that same minute.
>
> Can't you?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:14:40 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
>>reverse lookup on the Internet
>
> At least in the UK, this is bollocks.

Hi Mark McIntyre,

I'm glad I can help teach you the ways of the "Black Pages". :)

For example, take this USA telephone number: +1-815-547-1780

Let's find who owns it in about four seconds or less...

This web site says it's owned by Mark McIntyre, 222 High Line St,
Belvidere, IL 61008-1901
http://www.411locate.com/reverse_lookup.htm

Same with this web site:
http://www.anywho.com/rl.html

Same with this web site (and dozens of others):
http://www.infospace.com/home/white-pages/reverse-phone

Likewise, another four seconds and we have all the neighbors and THEIR
names, addresses, and phone numbers
http://tinyurl.com/y9kj96

Smith, J E
191 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1931
815-544-3375

Meier, V M
193 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1931
815-547-5162

Raynoso, Maria
203 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1929
815-544-7673

Koga, Sandra
210 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
815-544-9469

Lagunas, Andrew
210 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
815-544-6944

Reza, Javier
210 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
815-547-1614

Rodriguez, Jorge
210 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
815-544-2057

Voorhies, Jayne
210 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
815-547-0047

Diaz, Medina J
215 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1921
815-547-8893

Galvan, Cinthia
215 High Line St
Belvidere, IL 61008-1921
Add to Outlook

How can you possibly say a reverse phone lookup is "bollocks"?

If this took me all of a few seconds for a USA phone number, imagine what
someone can find out about you who actually knows what they are doing!





Note: According to Wikipedia, reverse phone directories, which are all over
the Internet, are illegal in the UK (but they exist according to
Wikipedia).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_directory

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
>> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
>> alt.personals

> Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

Hi Dana,

Now you're finally agreeing with me!

It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:48:18 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> There is nothing you can do about *anything* when it comes to the IP the NG
> server is using. You're (your machine is just) a client and you the client
> can do *nothing* about the IP being used by the NNTP server.
> http://www.tech-faq.com/nntp.shtml

Hi Duane,
This is very interesting.

Can I infer from your helpful reply that I can do nothing to change what is
listed as my NNTP posting host (being my router's unique IP address).

For example, if I look at the header of YOUR posts, I see:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.252.209.155
Does that mean your router currently has that IP address?

But, that doesnt' mesh with what I see by looking at other people's posts.
For example, posts from "Dana" or "Mark McIntyre" don't even seem to have
an NNTP Posting Host line. And those from "Warren Oates" have the news
server as the NNTP posting host:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 5b202376.news.astraweb.com

Does YOUR NNTP posting host indicate your news server or your router's IP
address?

The better question would be how can we remove the NNTP Posting Host line
from our posts like "Dana" and "Mark McIntyre" seem to cleverly achieved?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:y2q3kyfbvm41.5o94cbkz2h6h$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:14:40 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> >>I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
> >>reverse lookup on the Internet
> >
> > At least in the UK, this is bollocks.
>
> Hi Mark McIntyre,
>
> I'm glad I can help teach you the ways of the "Black Pages". :)
>
> For example, take this USA telephone number: +1-815-547-1780
>
> Let's find who owns it in about four seconds or less...
>
> This web site says it's owned by Mark McIntyre, 222 High Line St,
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1901
> http://www.411locate.com/reverse_lookup.htm
>
> Same with this web site:
> http://www.anywho.com/rl.html
>
> Same with this web site (and dozens of others):
> http://www.infospace.com/home/white-pages/reverse-phone
>
> Likewise, another four seconds and we have all the neighbors and THEIR
> names, addresses, and phone numbers
> http://tinyurl.com/y9kj96
>
> Smith, J E
> 191 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1931
> 815-544-3375
>
> Meier, V M
> 193 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1931
> 815-547-5162
>
> Raynoso, Maria
> 203 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1929
> 815-544-7673
>
> Koga, Sandra
> 210 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
> 815-544-9469
>
> Lagunas, Andrew
> 210 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
> 815-544-6944
>
> Reza, Javier
> 210 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
> 815-547-1614
>
> Rodriguez, Jorge
> 210 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
> 815-544-2057
>
> Voorhies, Jayne
> 210 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1942
> 815-547-0047
>
> Diaz, Medina J
> 215 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1921
> 815-547-8893
>
> Galvan, Cinthia
> 215 High Line St
> Belvidere, IL 61008-1921
> Add to Outlook
>
> How can you possibly say a reverse phone lookup is "bollocks"?
>
> If this took me all of a few seconds for a USA phone number, imagine what
> someone can find out about you who actually knows what they are doing!

You have way to much time on your hands.
>
>
>
>
>
> Note: According to Wikipedia, reverse phone directories, which are all
over
> the Internet, are illegal in the UK (but they exist according to
> Wikipedia).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_directory
>
>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:57:12 GMT, Leythos wrote:
> If you count background chatter, the port 135-139 attempts, then it's a
> LOT more than every 15 min, we see more than 4000 per day on average.

Hi Leythos,
I think this is wholly irrelevant but I understand and I apologize.

I'm sorry I used the word "security" in my initial requests.

What I meant was "privacy". A more descriptive word might be "anonyminity".

All I want is to not make it trivial for some kook out there (or my kids
.... same thing) to instantly connect me to my posts simply by following the
IP address trail.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1n8hyc3gjcqee.1gaadrp3z6wuu$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
> >> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
> >> alt.personals
>
> > Did you have the same router 15 years ago?
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Now you're finally agreeing with me!

Well no, not really.
I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

>
> It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
> can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.

If someone wanted to, they could. and that is the point people are trying to
make, more than likely you would not be a target of such people. Unless of
course you are a politician like Foley found out.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 18 Oct 2006 20:01:15 GMT, Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers wrote:

> In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
>> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?)
>> bit on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the
>> burned-in MAC or a modified MAC.
>
> There's no such thing.

Hi Ansgar Wiechers,
I don't mean to be argumentative, but, as I understand it, there is such a
thing.

Maybe I'm reading the literature wrong so I'll let you guys who know more
than I tell me if I'm wrong after you read this.
http://www.synapse.de/ban/HTML/P_LAYER2/Eng/P_lay207.html

And this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address

And this:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mac-address

If I read these correctly, a bit is set that indicates whether you changed
the hardware MAC address via software.

Someone who knows this better than I ... can you confirm or deny this MAC
address tattletale bit?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:43:47 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> If this took me all of a few seconds for a USA phone number, imagine what
>> someone can find out about you who actually knows what they are doing!
>
> You have way to much time on your hands.

Hi Dana,

Privacy is always worth the extra few seconds.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:15o0jkiohjbpj$.1iysswh1i2i6v.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:48:18 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> > There is nothing you can do about *anything* when it comes to the IP the
NG
> > server is using. You're (your machine is just) a client and you the
client
> > can do *nothing* about the IP being used by the NNTP server.
> > http://www.tech-faq.com/nntp.shtml
>
> Hi Duane,
> This is very interesting.
>
> Can I infer from your helpful reply that I can do nothing to change what
is
> listed as my NNTP posting host (being my router's unique IP address).
>
> For example, if I look at the header of YOUR posts, I see:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.252.209.155
> Does that mean your router currently has that IP address?
>
> But, that doesnt' mesh with what I see by looking at other people's posts.
> For example, posts from "Dana" or "Mark McIntyre" don't even seem to have
> an NNTP Posting Host line. And those from "Warren Oates" have the news
> server as the NNTP posting host:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 5b202376.news.astraweb.com
>
> Does YOUR NNTP posting host indicate your news server or your router's IP
> address?
>
> The better question would be how can we remove the NNTP Posting Host line
> from our posts like "Dana" and "Mark McIntyre" seem to cleverly achieved?

Since I am using OE there is not a lot I can do to my headers, especially
changing my nntp posting host. According to the RFC for NNTP, your news
server can remove that if the client (for me outlook express) sends it.
So I am thinking it is my ISP that is doing the removal, or it is your news
reader.
Since you seem to have so much time, the posts with no nntp posting host,
are they all using the same reader like I am using outlook express.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:129qq9jhp7aur.wav15g7ismuc$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:49:11 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> I may be wrong here, but I believe the NNTP posting host will be a news
>> server from the ISP. So depending on how many news servers they have for
>> where you connect, this address may not change that often if you post
>> from
>> the same location.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> I very much appreciate your helpful tone. And technical sense.
>
> We're peeling the onion here and I, for one, am learning a lot. I hope you
> are too.
>
> For example, I may be wrong, but, from my experience, no matter which of
> the dozens of news servers available to me by my ISP that I choose, the
> NNTP posting host seems to ALWAYS be my router's IP address!

The router doesn't get the IP it's the modem that gets the IP. The router is
connected to the modem and uses the public IP/Internet facing IP that has
been assigned to the modem by the ISP.

>
> For example, as I proved a moment ago, if I use a web browser to connect
> to
> my router and if I go to the "Status" "Router" "IP Address" screen, I see
> my current router's IP address is "69.110.8.45". That is what shows up as
> my NNTP Posting Host! Notice my actual NNTP server is NOT what shows up as
> my NNTP posting host.
>
> To prove that, I just switched from one to another of the dozens of NNTP
> news servers my ISP provides me. Guess what? I'll betcha my NNTP posting
> host is still the same as the current IP address of my router
> (69.110.8.45).

The "posting host - you're the one that's making the post back to the
server". It is one of your machines that has the client NG reader running on
it that's using the public facing IP that has been assigned to your modem to
make the post. You can switch all you want to different NNTP servers. There
is only one IP that's being used by your router that has been provided to
your modem by your ISP that's allowing communications with the ISP's network
for a machine that has a direct connection of a machine to the modem or a
router connected to the modem with machines connected to the router, with,
all the machines connected to your router using that one public facing IP
assigned by the ISP to your modem.
..
>
> Is 69.110.8.45 still my NNTP posting host in my header above?

Again, it's your public facing IP assigned to your modem that's used by your
router and your machines using the router are connected to the router, that
is the posting host IP back to the ISP's network.

If you don't know how that NAT router is working, then here is some info.

http://www.homenethelp.com/web/explain/about-NAT.asp

Duane :).

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
> I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
> your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

Hi Dana,
I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).

For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy. (Did
we not?)

Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts to
alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)

It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.
POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.

This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?
(I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?
(I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
(I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)

This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
discussion.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:hqyookok80v4.1h2qwis92gfb.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:43:47 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> If this took me all of a few seconds for a USA phone number, imagine
what
> >> someone can find out about you who actually knows what they are doing!
> >
> > You have way to much time on your hands.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Privacy is always worth the extra few seconds.

Where I live, our privacy is actually pretty nice as we are not a very large
place.
As for your NNTP posting host showing up, you may want to look at your news
reader and see if you can manipulate the headers, some of those other
readers allow you to do that.
I am using OE, hence Bill Gates does not give us a lot of playroom on that.
It may be your ISP, as my ISP sends my post straight to supernews, and
depending on how those news servers are set up will determine how the NNTP
posting host parameter is displayed. It appears mine is being stripped by
the news server, or OE does not send one.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1fmmo0q8k0tn0$.zjo8jqemzhws$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 18 Oct 2006 20:01:15 GMT, Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers wrote:
>
> > In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
> >> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?)
> >> bit on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the
> >> burned-in MAC or a modified MAC.
> >
> > There's no such thing.
>
> Hi Ansgar Wiechers,
> I don't mean to be argumentative, but, as I understand it, there is such a
> thing.

He is right. The actual bit in question is the local/global bit. It will be
set to local if you use an address you assign it.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:05:22 -0800, Dana wrote:
> The posts with no nntp posting host,
> are they all using the same reader like I am using outlook express.

Hi Dana,

Nope. For example, Mark McIntyre's header implies he is using:
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846

I will download and install Forte Agent to see if it's the newsreader or
the ISP who is forcing my NNTP Posting Host to be the same unique IP
address as my router.

If the solution (to not post my unique IP address with every post) is as
simple as switching newsreaders, that's would finally be the technial
answer I was looking for all along.

It's so easy to get emotional ... it's much harder to answer the question!
:)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:09:53 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> It's your public facing IP assigned to your modem that's used by your
> router and your machines using the router are connected to the router,
> that is the posting host IP back to the ISP's network.

Hi Duane,
Oh my. You are great! Instead of getting emotional and working around the
question, you not only helped me better understand the question, you also
helped me better understand what is really going on.

I see now that it is not the "router's" IP address in my NNTP POsting Host,
but, the MODEM's IP address!

Thanks... I'll try to say it correctly in all future posts.

I think we have only three questions to agree or disagree on:
1. Does the MAC have a bit which indicates it has been changed?
2. Is changing a MAC before public hotspot access additive to privacy?
3. Is removing the modem's IP address from posts additive to privacy?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1tn4zhjqngy9n$.1ee15h88ztsz3.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to
increase
> > your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).
>
> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.
(Did
> we not?)

This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.

>
> Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
> router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts
to
> alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
> to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
> is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)

No. You made the remark about going back 15 years, so I as a joke asked if
you had the same router 15 years ago, knowing full well you were probably on
a dial up at 2400, or 9600 speed. I remember those days as well.
>
> It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
> POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.

If they are pay services: NO
if they are free I want to say yes, but I need to see if there is a
registration process, so I am going with a maybe.

> POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
> the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.

No, as there are other ways just as easy to track your newsgroup post, all
one needs to do is look at your path.
>
> This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
> 1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?

Yes and no. There is a global/local bit wich tells if you are using the
burned in address (global) or a locally assigned (you make one up) address.

> (I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
> 2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?

Your reader may allow you to modify your headers.
I am doing nothing to mine, so either OE does not send it, or my news server
is stripping it off.

> (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
> 3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
> (I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)
>
> This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
> discussion.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:by9jxfkfee2f.1qwpu3toqwqm4.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:05:22 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> The posts with no nntp posting host,
>> are they all using the same reader like I am using outlook express.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Nope. For example, Mark McIntyre's header implies he is using:
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846
>
> I will download and install Forte Agent to see if it's the newsreader or
> the ISP who is forcing my NNTP Posting Host to be the same unique IP
> address as my router.
>
> If the solution (to not post my unique IP address with every post) is as
> simple as switching newsreaders, that's would finally be the technial
> answer I was looking for all along.
>
> It's so easy to get emotional ... it's much harder to answer the question!
> :)

It really means nothing in the long run as no one can come past the router
with the IP unless you started manually opening up ports. But if using a NG
read that allows you to mask your IP makes you feel better, then by all
means use one. :)

You should have started another thread. *How can I mask the NNTP post IP in
the headers?* ;)

By the way, the answer to your other post to me as to why the NNTP post IP
is changing for me is that I am using a dial-up connection to the ISP and
that IP is going to change each and every time I dial-up to the ISP.

When I am connected to my network protected by an appliance such as a router
with a BB connection, then I don't care if someone sees the IP or not in
the headers, as it means nothing to me -- no one is coming past the router
from the Internet.

The problem is behind the router with a machine that has been compromised by
malware with someone with the happy fingers that clicked on something that
lead to the compormise.

Duane :)
..

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:29:08 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
>> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
>> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.
> (Did we not?)
>
> This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
> know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.

Hi Dana,
I can definately say I have posted from public wireless hot spots which do
NOT require any registration process whatsoever.

Many hotels, for example, have free public wireless access in their
lobbies.

Of course, some hotspots do have a registration process ... the clincher
being their need to obtain money from you (generally by credit card) ...
which we all know identifies you to your social security number which
basically provides your whole life history to almost anyone who can use a
telephone to ask.

So, I think we've definitively established the following:

a. Does changing the MAC address leave a tell-tale change bit?
Yes. But that in and of itself is not subtractive to privacy.

b. Is changing a MAC at a public hotspot additive to privacy?
Probably.
Especially if the public hot spot requires no other registration.

c. Is removal of the NNTP Posting Host additive to privacy?
Maybe. I certainly believe so; but others are not so sure
(however, they are certainly hung up on the ISP knowing who
we are which was never the question so their answers are
suspect once you consider they are answering a different
question than that which was posed).

Given that I think we have determined the above to as great a degree as we
can (bearing in mind the hugely emotional aspect of some people's
postings), I think I'm left with determining the following.

1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
(I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

2. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on demand?
(I'm testing one helpful sugestion as we speak.)

3. If you change the MAC address & change it back ... is the tattletale bit
still set?
(???)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:1shpnxj3ehtog$.1svui1l7atp2y.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:09:53 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> It's your public facing IP assigned to your modem that's used by your
>> router and your machines using the router are connected to the router,
>> that is the posting host IP back to the ISP's network.
>
> Hi Duane,
> Oh my. You are great! Instead of getting emotional and working around the
> question, you not only helped me better understand the question, you also
> helped me better understand what is really going on.
>
> I see now that it is not the "router's" IP address in my NNTP POsting
> Host,
> but, the MODEM's IP address!
>
> Thanks... I'll try to say it correctly in all future posts.
>
> I think we have only three questions to agree or disagree on:
> 1. Does the MAC have a bit which indicates it has been changed?

A MAC is a uniuqe ID that's given to a piece of equipment, such a router,
modem, NIC, etc, that communicates on a netwrk. You can tell by the MAC as
to what manufacturer made the equipment. The MAC is an identifier. There is
no bit that I know about thatcan tell you if a MAC has been changed. There
is software that will allow you to change the MAC, like on a NIC.

> 2. Is changing a MAC before public hotspot access additive to privacy?

The MAC means nothing in this situation for some kind of security, that I
know about..

> 3. Is removing the modem's IP address from posts additive to privacy?

Some say yes and some say no. I say no. If someone is coming at your IP that
the router is blocking, then call the ISP and tell them you want a new IP.

Like I said before, you are no potatoes, they are after the big fish, like a
company.

It's past my bedtime here in the US. I got to hit the sack and get some
sleep.

Duane :)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:38:13 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> It really means nothing in the long run as no one can come past the router
> with the IP unless you started manually opening up ports.

Hi Duane,
Thanks for the helpful response. I'm only responding in _this_ post to the
one un-helpful part of your response because I think this kind of confusion
is the reason this thread has taken so long to get to the very good results
it has achieved for all of us.

This post is not about security! It is MY FAULT for using that word in the
initial post and in the subject line! I apologize.

I don't care (for the purpose of this post) if a zillion zombies attack my
NNTP posting host (which is, in reality, my modem's IP address). I don't
care if a hundred viruses and worms and malware malfeasants attack me
directly (again, for the purpose of this post).

What I care about is making is harder for someone (my kids perhaps, or my
spouse, or my employer, or you, or some kook, etc.) to connect all my
various posts together.

I have a professional life to maintain and I maintain it on the Internet.
I have a personal life to maintain and I partly maintain it on the
Internet.
And, I have technical needs and folks like you on the Internet help me.

All I am asking is for help in keeping those Internet "lives" separate with
the simplese, cheapest, easiest methods possible (and simply changing the
IP address of my modem on demand seems to be a viable method to me).

I'll answer your other (more helpful and to the point) responses
separately.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:38:13 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> You should have started another thread. *How can I mask the NNTP post IP in
> the headers?* ;)

Hi Duane,
We have all learned a lot in this thread. I, for one, have probably learned
more than all of you combined (since you knew so much more than I to start
with).

I agree with you.

In fact, if I had known what I know now, I _would_ have asked the specific
technical questions:

1. How can I mask my NNTP posting IP in my nntp headers?
2. What is the easiest way to change my modem's IP address?
3. If I reset my MAC to the original address, is the change bit also reset?

:)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:38:13 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote
> When I am connected to my network protected by an appliance such as a router
> with a BB connection, then I don't care if someone sees the IP or not in
> the headers, as it means nothing to me -- no one is coming past the router
> from the Internet.
>
> The problem is behind the router with a machine that has been compromised by
> malware with someone with the happy fingers that clicked on something that
> lead to the compormise.

Hi Duane,

Again, I don't mean to pick on you, but, I guess I need to repeat that what
you state above it wholly irrevelant to the conversation. Yes, I know I
used the word "security" in my subject line ... and for that I am
constantly punished by people saying I won't get security (as you have said
time and time again).

I will repeat that I am not at all worried about my ISP knowing who I am
nor am I (in this thread anyway) worried about someone "attacking" me
because they now know my modem's IP address.

I am not worried (in this thread) about malware.
I am not asking (in this thread) about compromised machines.
I am not speaking (in this thread) about someone with happy fingers leading
to a compromise.

Can we please stay on topic (where we have done quite well when we have)?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Duane Arnold" wrote in message
news:rhFZg.13214$o71.7943@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net.. .
>
> "#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
> news:1shpnxj3ehtog$.1svui1l7atp2y.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:09:53 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
> >> It's your public facing IP assigned to your modem that's used by your
> >> router and your machines using the router are connected to the router,
> >> that is the posting host IP back to the ISP's network.
> >
> > Hi Duane,
> > Oh my. You are great! Instead of getting emotional and working around
the
> > question, you not only helped me better understand the question, you
also
> > helped me better understand what is really going on.
> >
> > I see now that it is not the "router's" IP address in my NNTP POsting
> > Host,
> > but, the MODEM's IP address!
> >
> > Thanks... I'll try to say it correctly in all future posts.
> >
> > I think we have only three questions to agree or disagree on:
> > 1. Does the MAC have a bit which indicates it has been changed?
>
> A MAC is a uniuqe ID that's given to a piece of equipment, such a router,
> modem, NIC, etc, that communicates on a netwrk. You can tell by the MAC as
> to what manufacturer made the equipment. The MAC is an identifier. There
is
> no bit that I know about thatcan tell you if a MAC has been changed. There
> is software that will allow you to change the MAC, like on a NIC.

Someone else mentioned that a bit is set if the mac was changed.
I think that person meant the global/local bit it the layer two header.
>
> > 2. Is changing a MAC before public hotspot access additive to privacy?
>
> The MAC means nothing in this situation for some kind of security, that I
> know about..
>
> > 3. Is removing the modem's IP address from posts additive to privacy?
>
> Some say yes and some say no. I say no. If someone is coming at your IP
that
> the router is blocking, then call the ISP and tell them you want a new IP.

>
> Like I said before, you are no potatoes, they are after the big fish, like
a
> company.
>
> It's past my bedtime here in the US. I got to hit the sack and get some
> sleep.
>
> Duane :)
>
>
>
>

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weeklyon DSL

Aluxe wrote:
> Isn't there a much easier way to get a new IP address every day?
>
> As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
> approximately two or three times a week.
>
> Currently I unplug the DSL router and plug it back in (it doesn't have an
> on/off switch). Likewise, I unplug and plug back in my wireless router (why
> don't these things have a simple on/off switch?). I turn off my Windows XP
> computer. I leave the whole setup in the off state for various periods of
> time (depending on what's going on that day). Then I reboot this entire
> setup in sequence.
>
> Often, (about three quarters of the time), that clears the old IP address
> and gets me a new IP address where I can start fresh.
>
> But, about a quarter of the time, I can't get connected to the Internet
> when it all boots back up. I have to fiddle around for fifteen or twenty
> minutes until I can get reconnected (killing the software firewall,
> powering the dsl modem down, powering the linksys router down, removing the
> cat5 cables, waiting 30 seconds, powering back up in sequence, rehooking
> the cat5 cables, resetting the linksys router passwords and settings,
> re-enabling the software firewall, etc.).
>
> You guys are smarter than I am.
> Is there an easier more reliable way to get a new IP address every day?
> If there is ... pray tell ...
>
> What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
hi Aluxe:

yesterday I was at my bank, and while the cust rep goes to get some printouts,
I check out their desk:

internal phone numbers (IT,Reception,employees) and email addresses.
then there is your paperwork, because you were at this bank right bevor me.
so your address, phone, account# anything interesting about you.

all I need is a good memory or a pda, pretending to work my calendar.

i go over to check out your house, go through your trash, find a couple magazines and snail-spam
(ISP, AAA, Home and Gardening, whatever)

i learn about your interests, your kids and wife's name.
I call various people pretending to be either you, your bank, or your ISP.

I'll impersonate the ISP guy, ring your door when the paranoid
guy is not home, tell your kids there is a problem with your cable connection, this is your account, isn't it?

i check out your house, remember some more details
if I am luck, I get to install a keylogger or rogue access-point in your LAN.


yeah, now I know enough to do you real harm
I don't need to know your IP address.

sleep well - and don't forget to close your shutters....

M

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:53:11 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> 3. Is removing the modem's IP address from posts additive to privacy?
> Some say yes and some say no. I say no. If someone is coming at your IP that
> the router is blocking, then call the ISP and tell them you want a new IP.

Hi Duane,
I do appreciate your help ... but your constant sticking to this errant
theme is a bit frustrating to me as it wastes all our bandwidth
unnecessarily ... (sorry for having to be blunt) ...

I shall repeat (again):
- The questions are NOT about anyone coming at the IP.
- I KNOW full well that I can be attacked (that's why I have a firewall).
- I am NOT asking about hiding behind a firewall (which I am).

All I was asking was for an easier way to change my modem's IP address.
I'm testing one suggestion as we speak.
- Aim the browser at the router's IP address
- Log in as the administrator of the router
- Go to "Setup" "Basic Setup"
- Switch the default from "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
- Switch the default to "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"

I'm not sure the implications of this setting so that's why I'm testing it
out.

If you know ... that would be wonderful if you'd expound on that.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:07:23 +0200, mak wrote:
> sleep well - and don't forget to close your shutters....

Yes, but, do you know the technical answer to the question, or not?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 18 Oct 2006 12:17:24 -0700, kingthorin@gmail.com wrote:
>> Is there any way you know of to force the linksys router to dial into the
>> PPPOE account on demand?
> Some linksys devices have a "connect on demand" option.
> (Disable keep-alive, enable "connect on demand" and set a timeout).
> So that when your router receives an outbound request it initiates
> the PPPoE connection (login) and then disconnects after the timeout
> (inactivity) period is passed (ie: 15 mins after it receives the
> last outbound request).

Hi kingthorin,

Oh my. Yes. Finally. You are someone who helps answer the question.

Instead of a cheap off-topic editorial on paranoia, you bared your brains
and bothered to come up with a possible answer to what amounts to a very
simple on-topic technical question. Thank you so very much. It's people
like you that make the Internet so helpful to everyone!

I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
- I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
- I logged in as the administrator of the router
- I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
- "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
- to the new setting of:
- "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"

Hopefully, a positive result of this technical test of your hypothesis will
answer the question of how to force the router to dial into the PPPoE
account when I power the modem back on after an evening's shutdown.

I'm not quite sure if I fully understand this setting though.
Is this a correct explaination of the "Connect on Demand" setting?

- Assume the DSL modem is shut down for, say, overnight.
- Assume the router was left powered on; as was the computer.
- The goal is to power the modem and attempt a web connection on the
computer and the hope is that this will cause the router to re-initiate the
PPPoE connection to the ISP.

I'm confused about the "max idle time" though. Does that mean that it could
be as long as one minute (given a max idle time setting of "1 min") before
the router initiates the PPPoE connection?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:29:56 GMT, Stuart Miller wrote:
> There is a lot of interesting technical discussion here, but I would like to
> take a different approach
> From all the posts here and on the 'firewall' newsgroup, I believe I
> understand what Aluxe is after.
....
> [changing the IP address] has nothing to do with security, but does grant a measure of privacy.
> Comments?

Hi Stuart Miller,

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you for being a voice of technical reason here.
I agree, we are not talking about security (that was my fault for equating
sescurity to privacy in the original subject line) as you fully understand.

We are only talking about a simple additive action to privacy.

I think (by now), we have definately established (especially in the case of
the tattletale NNTP posting host) that changing the IP address is additive
to privacy.

Thank you for understanding the request and for posting thoughts that
others can comment upon (as I am doing now).

I think we've established (not without argument):
a) The MAC address tattletale bit isn't subtractive to privacy.
b) Changing the MAC address is sometimes additive to privacy.
c) Changing the IP address is sometimes additive to privacy.
d) Changing the MAC address is trivial (takes five seconds).
e) Changing the IP address could be trivial (we're testing now).

I wonder how many of us knew this before this post?
I certainly did not so I thank all of you for edifying all of us.
More facts need to be ascertained; but this is a great start!

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:37:41 GMT, #2 Aluxe wrote:
> I wonder how many of us knew this before this post?
> I certainly did not so I thank all of you for edifying all of us.
> More facts need to be ascertained; but this is a great start!

Well, after a few posts using Outlook Express, Agent, & Xnews, I've come to
the conclusion it's the ISP who is adding the modem's IP address to the
NNTP Posting Host. Sigh.

Please prove me wrong because I'd so very much like it to not be so.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:40:10 GMT, #2 Aluxe wrote:


>Sorry for the short tone ... but why you assume I'm worried about my ISP
>knowing who I am makes me worry just a bit about you and your rationality.

Oh gawd, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weeklyon DSL

#2 Aluxe wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:07:23 +0200, mak wrote:
>> sleep well - and don't forget to close your shutters....
>
> Yes, but, do you know the technical answer to the question, or not?
this is one of the longest threads here
and enough people have answered your question already.


M

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.security.firewalls.]
#2 Aluxe skriver:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:38:13 GMT, Duane Arnold wrote:
>> It really means nothing in the long run as no one can come past the router
> All I am asking is for help in keeping those Internet "lives" separate with
> the simplese, cheapest, easiest methods possible (and simply changing the
> IP address of my modem on demand seems to be a viable method to me).

However all experts in this area seams to thibk that you are wrong in
that assumtion. Changeing the IP-address doesn't help your privacy.
As ip-addresses in dial-up networks change all the time there are
other methods of tracking you down anyhow.

/ Balp
--
http://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weeklyon DSL

#2 Aluxe wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:43:47 -0800, Dana wrote:
>
>>>If this took me all of a few seconds for a USA phone number, imagine what
>>>someone can find out about you who actually knows what they are doing!
>>
>>You have way to much time on your hands.
>
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Privacy is always worth the extra few seconds.

More like paranoia

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Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

> Hi kingthorin,
>
> Oh my. Yes. Finally. You are someone who helps answer the question.
>
> Instead of a cheap off-topic editorial on paranoia, you bared your brains
> and bothered to come up with a possible answer to what amounts to a very
> simple on-topic technical question. Thank you so very much. It's people
> like you that make the Internet so helpful to everyone!

No worries.

> I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
> - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
> - I logged in as the administrator of the router
> - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
> - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
> - to the new setting of:
> - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"

You may want to increase the Max Idle Time a bit. It's pretty simple to
be idle for one minute while you read a web page, news article, if you
answer the phone etc. You don't want to be hammering your ISPs
authentication server everytime you're idle for 1 min.

> Hopefully, a positive result of this technical test of your hypothesis will
> answer the question of how to force the router to dial into the PPPoE
> account when I power the modem back on after an evening's shutdown.
>
> I'm not quite sure if I fully understand this setting though.
> Is this a correct explaination of the "Connect on Demand" setting?
>
> - Assume the DSL modem is shut down for, say, overnight.
> - Assume the router was left powered on; as was the computer.
> - The goal is to power the modem and attempt a web connection on the
> computer and the hope is that this will cause the router to re-initiate the
> PPPoE connection to the ISP.

No it has nothing to do with powering down the modem, you can leave the
modem up. Your router will only be assigned a IP address by your ISP
when it has a valid PPPoE connection. The "Connect On Demand" and "Max
Idle Time" settings tell the router to well simply connect when there
is demand (ie: PPPoE connect/authenticate....which results in you
getting an IP) and then drop the connection (ie: PPPoE disconnect)
after your connection has been idle for x number of minutes. Everything
can remain powered on, if you have no "demand" overnight then you
should exceed the time you've observed and when you establish "connect
on demand" in the morning should attain a different IP. Make sense?

> I'm confused about the "max idle time" though. Does that mean that it could
> be as long as one minute (given a max idle time setting of "1 min") before
> the router initiates the PPPoE connection?
No, Max Idle Time is going to be the time the router takes before
dropping the connection. Like this:
1) Set down at your computer, open IE and try to hit
http://www.google.com, the router sees this as a request for something
outside of your local network and therefore initiates your PPPoE
connection to your ISP and gets you a public IP address.
2) You can now surf, email, etc at your leasure.
3) Once you stop surfing etc (no further request to things outside your
local network) the router will wait for a full minute of inactivity and
then disconnect (drop your PPPoE connection).

Note: Windows Update, MSN Messenger (any instand messenging program)
etc will likely cause a steady stream of traffic and never let you
become "Idle", you'll need to make sure they are disabled when you're
done online or configured so that they aren't doing their own 'keep
alive' functions, etc....

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe"
wrote in message news:1x0ddc5p4kf6z.1mldsw3zfaym2$.dlg@40tude.net...

> If someone technical here can show me how to
>CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
> well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!

Thats EASY !
Change your gateway's IP address,
as that is what your NTTP server see as your NNTP posting host.
The gateway IP, will be your "point of contact" IP address, for the
device terminating your ISP to yourself.

End of discussion! ;-)

/HC

btw:
I assume your ISP provides you with a dynamic IP, using DHCP.
Most DHCP servers will remember your MACadress, and offer you
tha same IP adress again if you simply switch off/on, you will have to
_release _ your current IP, and /request/ a new IP for it to change.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

In comp.security.firewalls #2 Aluxe wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2006 20:01:15 GMT, Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers wrote:
>> In comp.security.firewalls Aluxe wrote:
>>> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a
>>> (hidden?) bit on the MAC address which indicates whether you are
>>> using the burned-in MAC or a modified MAC.
>>
>> There's no such thing.
>
> I don't mean to be argumentative, but, as I understand it, there is
> such a thing.

No.

> Maybe I'm reading the literature wrong

Yes, you are.

> http://www.synapse.de/ban/HTML/P_LAYER2/Eng/P_lay207.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address
> http://www.answers.com/topic/mac-address
>
> If I read these correctly, a bit is set that indicates whether you
> changed the hardware MAC address via software.

You don't read them correctly. A MAC address is just a 6 byte (octet, to
be precise) number. If you manually assign a MAC address you can assign
any number you want, with or without the "globally unique" bit (which is
probably what you are referring to) set. There's nothing hidden about
it.

And will you please stop the crossposting?

cu
59cobalt
--
"If a software developer ever believes a rootkit is a necessary part of
their architecture they should go back and re-architect their solution."
--Mark Russinovich

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:13:13 +0200, Harald Andersen wrote:
>> If someone technical here can show me how to
>>CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
>> well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!
>
> Thats EASY !
> Change your gateway's IP address,
> as that is what your NTTP server see as your NNTP posting host.
> The gateway IP, will be your "point of contact" IP address, for the
> device terminating your ISP to yourself.

Hi Harald Andersen,

If by "gateway", you mean "modem" (I have DHCP DSL PPPoE), then that is
what we were doing all along way before this thread ever started.

I have a new IP address today but the last test didn't work (changing the
"connect on demand" setting. But, I might have performed the test wrong so
I'll try again tonight.

If you know how to "change your gateway's address" without powering down
the router ... that would answer the original question nicely.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On 19 Oct 2006 05:10:25 -0700, kingthorin@gmail.com wrote:
>> I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
>> - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
>> - I logged in as the administrator of the router
>> - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
>> - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
>> - to the new setting of:
>> - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"
>
> You may want to increase the Max Idle Time a bit. It's pretty simple to
> be idle for one minute while you read a web page, news article, if you
> answer the phone etc. You don't want to be hammering your ISPs
> authentication server everytime you're idle for 1 min.

Hi kingthorin,

I love the fact that you are helping to answer the original technical
question (instead of getting into an endless & useless theoretical debate
about paranoia). Thank you for sticking to the topic and for knowing enough
to do so.

My test failed. Obviously I have a new IP address but that was never the
problem. The problem was getting the new IP address (aka NNTP posting host)
without having to power down the router (and the modem, if possible). I had
to power the router off and then back on to get it to initiate the PPPoE
DHCP DSL connection to the ISP.

However, you have told me that I performed the test wrong as I had powered
down the modem (but not the router) in my successful attempt to get the
modem to release its assigned IP address. Releasing the IP address isn't
the problem ... it's getting a new IP address without having to power down
the Linksys router that is the problem.

After reading your post just now, I will try a NEW test. I just took your
suggestion and increased the maximum idle time to 5 minutes (the default).

DOES THIS look like a definitive MAX-IDLE-TIME test procedure?

a. Connect to the Internet, e.g., www.google.com (to ascertain connection)
b. Determine my modem's current IP address (by querying the router)
c. Wait five minute inactive (assume no keep-alive programs are running)
d. The 5-inactive minutes should disconnect me from the PPPoE connection
e. Test the PPPoE connection by again querying the router on port 80
f. At this point, there should be no assigned IP address showing up
g. WAIT FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE (but more than the Max Idle Time)
h. Repeat step a above to connect to the Internet by going to google
i. This should "wake up" the router & tell it to dial back into PPPoE
j. Within a few secs, the PPPoE connection should be re-established
k. The proof will be that the google web page reappears in the browser

Is this a valid test procedure to prove whether the PPPoE connection is
being dropped and then reconnected on demand after waiting for more than
the max idle time?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:26:48 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article ,
> #2 Aluxe wrote:
>
>> I will download and install Forte Agent to see if it's the newsreader or
>> the ISP who is forcing my NNTP Posting Host to be the same unique IP
>> address as my router.
>
> IT'S THE NNTP PROVIDER
> IT'S THE NNTP PROVIDER
> (which may or may not be your ISP).

Hi Warren Oates,
What are you trying to say?

Are you saying that every single person who used the same ISP as I do will
have a DIFFERENT nntp posting host because the ISP is using the IP
addressed assigned to the subscriber as the nntp posting host?

If you're not saying that, then what you say doesn't jive with the actual
results (notice my nntp posting host is again changed as I change my IP
address daily and my nntp posting host follows suit).

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:13:33 +0200, Anders Arnholm wrote:
> However all experts in this area seams to thibk that you are wrong in
> that assumtion. Changeing the IP-address doesn't help your privacy.
> As ip-addresses in dial-up networks change all the time there are
> other methods of tracking you down anyhow.

Hi Balp (Anders Arnholm),

I thank you for trying to help ... but ...

As I have exasperatingly said time and time again, I'm not worried about
the very many methods a person can track me down to find out who I am (I
pay my ISP bill every month for Christ sake).

All I'm asking in this thread is how to release and renew the IP address
that is assigned to my (PPPoE DSL DHCP) modem without having to power down
the linksys router.

If you don't know the answer to that question, then all you are doing is
contributing to the noise level.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:46:17 +0200, mak wrote:
> this is one of the longest threads here
> and enough people have answered your question already.

Hi Mak,

I thank you for trying to help ... but ...

Only about three people have actually added value to this simple technical
request. If you add up their posts, that's about five responses, in toto,
that were germane to the original request.

All I'm asking in this thread is how to release and renew the IP address
that is assigned to my (PPPoE DSL DHCP) modem without having to power down
the linksys router.

I'm trying faithfully to respond to each and every concern (since you took
the time to voice them, it is my responsibility to return the favor) but if
you don't actually know the answer to that question, then all you are doing
is contributing to the noise level.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:22:55 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> Oh gawd, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Hi Greg Hennessy,
I do appreciate your trying to add value and that is why I take the common
courtesy and decency to respond to your kind posting ... but ... this is
exasperating so I'll be a bit curt ...

Pleeeasssse ... if you don't really know the answer to the question ... you
are just adding to the noise level in this thread.

Please do respond if you truly know how to force the router to initiate the
PPPoE connection to the ISP without having to power down the router.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:33:02 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> Also, I checked my router's settings, and yes, one can set one's router
> to "On Demand" connection (mine's a Dlink) _IF_ one's using PPPoE to
> connect to one's ISP, but not with DHCP; I'm not sure which you're
> using.

Hi Warren Oates,
Thank you for the response to the question.

Yes, I am using PPPoE and DHCP on DSL with a Linksys router and a DSL modem
(if that helps narrow down the conversation).

I have set my on-demand max-idle-time setting to 5 minutes.

Are you saying that because I am both PPPoE and DHCP, that this setting
won't actually work?

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

#2 Aluxe wrote:
> On 19 Oct 2006 05:10:25 -0700, kingthorin@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I found all the settings you spoke of in my router.
> >> - I aimed the browser at the router's IP address
> >> - I logged in as the administrator of the router
> >> - I went to "Setup" "Basic Setup" and switched the default from
> >> - "Keep Alive: Redial Period = 30 sec"
> >> - to the new setting of:
> >> - "Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time = 1 min"
> >
> > You may want to increase the Max Idle Time a bit. It's pretty simple to
> > be idle for one minute while you read a web page, news article, if you
> > answer the phone etc. You don't want to be hammering your ISPs
> > authentication server everytime you're idle for 1 min.
>
> Hi kingthorin,
>
> I love the fact that you are helping to answer the original technical
> question (instead of getting into an endless & useless theoretical debate
> about paranoia). Thank you for sticking to the topic and for knowing enough
> to do so.
>
> My test failed. Obviously I have a new IP address but that was never the
> problem. The problem was getting the new IP address (aka NNTP posting host)
> without having to power down the router (and the modem, if possible). I had
> to power the router off and then back on to get it to initiate the PPPoE
> DHCP DSL connection to the ISP.
>
> However, you have told me that I performed the test wrong as I had powered
> down the modem (but not the router) in my successful attempt to get the
> modem to release its assigned IP address. Releasing the IP address isn't
> the problem ... it's getting a new IP address without having to power down
> the Linksys router that is the problem.
>
> After reading your post just now, I will try a NEW test. I just took your
> suggestion and increased the maximum idle time to 5 minutes (the default).
>
> DOES THIS look like a definitive MAX-IDLE-TIME test procedure?
>
> a. Connect to the Internet, e.g., www.google.com (to ascertain connection)
> b. Determine my modem's current IP address (by querying the router)

It's actually your router that gets the IP address from your ISP not
the modem. Think of it like you didn't have multiple systems (and
therefore no router) your lone computer would initiate the PPPoE
connection and get the IP address.

> c. Wait five minute inactive (assume no keep-alive programs are running)
> d. The 5-inactive minutes should disconnect me from the PPPoE connection
> e. Test the PPPoE connection by again querying the router on port 80

Yes if you check the router after 5.5 minutes (er whatever) then it
should have dropped your connection and it should no longer have a
public IP.

> f. At this point, there should be no assigned IP address showing up
> g. WAIT FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE (but more than the Max Idle Time)

Once you're sure you've been disconnected there's no reason to wait
longer. (Though this would usually be your overnight period which would
exceed the hour or two you previously noted it takes for you to
reconnect and attain a different IP then your previous connections.
Make sense?)

> h. Repeat step a above to connect to the Internet by going to google
> i. This should "wake up" the router & tell it to dial back into PPPoE
> j. Within a few secs, the PPPoE connection should be re-established
> k. The proof will be that the google web page reappears in the browser

or that you check the router again and the PPPoE connection is
established and you have a public IP again.

> Is this a valid test procedure to prove whether the PPPoE connection is
> being dropped and then reconnected on demand after waiting for more than
> the max idle time?

Ya I think that'll work for you. Just remember that "Max Idle Time" is
just for dropping the connection, you'll still have to wait the hour or
two (between drop and establish) you previously observed to keep
yourself from getting the same address twice in a row.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:36:54 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> Please do ask if (and when) you know whether you connect to your ISP
> with DHCP or PPPoE. Hint: do you have to enter a username and password
> to connect?

Hi Warren Oates,

Thank you for the response to the question.

Yes, I am using PPPoE & DHCP on DSL with a Linksys router and a DSL modem
(the router enters the username and password for me).

I have set my on-demand max-idle-time setting to 5 minutes.

The current hypothesis is that I will get a new IP address (hence NNTP
posting host) every night as long as the connection is idle for a few hours
(long enough for the ISP to give up the lease).

Hopefully this will work as it is indeed an elegant solution (if it works).

Thank you for asking questions that help flesh out the answers to the
questions!

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:40:39 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>> Are you saying that because I am both PPPoE and DHCP, that this setting
>> won't actually work?
>
> No. My guess is that your router's connected to your ISP via PPPoE, and
> that you're getting addresses from your router via DHCP. Does the router
> show an "on demand" setting?

Hi Warren Oates,
Thanks again for asking the right questions.

Are you asking about the IP address that the COMPUTER has? I'm not. I'm
talking only about the one unique address (on the Internet) that my ISP has
assigned to my account at that time.

There is some debate here whether it's the router or the dsl modem that is
getting assigned the address via DHCP ... but let me answer your questions:

QUESTION: Is your router connected to your ISP by PPPoE?
ANSWER: yes.

QUESTION: Are you getting addresses from your ISP via DHCP?
ANSWER: yes

QUESTION: Does the linksys router show an "on demand" setting?
ANSWER: I have set my on-demand max-idle-time setting to 5 minutes as per
kingthorin's helpful suggestions.

Thank you for helping us out. Hopefully these latest settings will cause
the ISP to give up my IP address when the computers are idle for a few
hours and then hopefully (this is the clincher) the PPPoE connection will
be AUTOMATICALLY established to the ISP (without having to reboot the
router) so that a new IP address is obtained automatically.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:36:54 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> Please do ask if (and when) you know whether you connect to your ISP
> with DHCP or PPPoE. Hint: do you have to enter a username and password
> to connect?

Hi Warren Oates,

I would love to respond to technical questions related to the question!
(Have I not shown a willingness to respond to posters?)

QUESTION: Do I have to enter a username & password to connect?
ANSWER: Yes.

I long ago set the PPPoE username and password in the linksys router.
Apparently the router initiates that logon as I never manually type the
username or password to connect to the ISP.

I did have to reboot the router in order to force it to dial in to the ISP
after leaving the dsl modem off for hours overnight ... but I am hoping (by
this question) to learn how to re-establish the PPPoE connection without
having to reboot the router!

Thank you for asking questions that are helpful to the end result of
learning how to reestablish a PPPoE connection after hours of downtime
without having to actually reboot the router to force it to dial in with
the username and password.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

> 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
> (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
there.

However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
doesn't provide any real value.

I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.

In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
artifact that is at most mildly interesting.

If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
yourself.

I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
me useless stuff.

That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
over is "more private". Yeah, right....

By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
"important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.

If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.

So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.

If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************************ *****************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"Chris F Clark" wrote in message
news:sddr6x42rdf.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com...
> > 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
> > (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)
>
> If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
> yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
> cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
> stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
> spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
> we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
> that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
> step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
> In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
> AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
> Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
> have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
> Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
> there.
>
> However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
> and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
> your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
> doesn't provide any real value.
>
> I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
> interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
> interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
> other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
> That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.
>
> In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
> addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
> to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
> your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
> NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
> artifact that is at most mildly interesting.
>
> If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
> for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
> actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
> source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
> yourself.
>
> I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
> instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
> care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
> that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
> how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
> to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
> and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
> imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
> The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
> knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
> sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
> me useless stuff.
>
> That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
> sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
> paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
> anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
> your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
> public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
> over is "more private". Yeah, right....
>
> By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
> to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
> hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
> information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
> to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
> "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
> its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
> will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.
>
> If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
> has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
> instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
> having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.
>
> So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
> thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
> to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
> to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
> interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.
>
> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
> Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.
>
> Hope this helps,
> -Chris
>

Very well said Chris.

>
************************************************************ ****************
*
> Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
> Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
> 23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
> Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
> ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------
----

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:38:04 -0400, Chris F Clark wrote:

Hi Chris Clark,
Wow. Even though you didn't quite answer the specific question, you DID go
into a thorough detail on how to do the job better in a variety of ways.

I fully agree with almost all your points; and I partially agree with the
rest as explained below (for others to benefit from the conversation).

> If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
> yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
> cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
> stream.

Understood. But, as you noted, that's a LOT more effort than just
unplugging the router momentarily (which is what I do today to accomplish
my goal). Actually, if I just found a router with an on/off switch, THAT
would be work just fine too! I didn't know that was a desired feature when
I originally purchased my Linksys router. In the future, a basic on/off
switch is on my list of router niceties.

> that's why people have been so "down" on your idea of changing your IP.
> The system isn't setup to do that.
> It doesn't provide any real value.

I only partially agree with you here. For you, and for most of the people
who posted, changing the IP assigned to you provides no value. But, for me,
where my ISP reports to the whole world my assigned IP address in every
post, it does provide additive value for the amount of work involved
(currently that work is merely unplugging the router momentarily after a
night's rest).

> I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
> interested enough to find out.

I don't actually post on alt.personals, by the way. That was just an
example to explain the "why" I was asking how to force the router to dial
into my PPPoE connection on demand. I didn't want to get into a discussion
of why ... it's all the nice people who responded who insisted we discuss
the why before we discuss the how. So, I told them why by using analogies
(some automatically assumed I was a criminal, paranoid, or worse!) :) LOL.

I think we've discussed the "why" to death ... if someone doesn't
understand the why by now (yes, I know you understood), then they most
likely won't ever get to the how (which is a much simpler question, albeit
non emotional).


> In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
> addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
> to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
> your router (are you sure of that?

Yup. We proved it time and time again. Notice each day my nntp posting host
changes? It is 100% correlated with the IP address my ISP assigns me. It
doesn't matter which software I used (I tested Forte Free Agent, 40Tude
dialog, and Outlook Express). If anyone KNOWs the trick to tell the ISP to
not use my IP address as my NNTP posting host ... THAT would be a
conversation worthy of having!

> If you want more privacy ... you can get it by paying
> for it or by doing "hard work"

Or, I can just tell my router to dial into PPPoE every morning :)

> That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
> sort of relationship I would presume), thn you would be much better
> paying more money (or doing more ework) and getting some real
> anonimity.

Again. These were just examples. Do folks really think someone who wishes
to hide their IP address is going to actually provide "real" targeting
information to answer a wholly unrelated, yet still very personal, set of
errant questions of why I want my router to dial into a PPPoE account on
demand?

The made-up examples were illustrative of the only point I had which was
that all my posts today under any name can be collected by the IP address
for me (but not for most of you).

> You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
> your IP to make it worthwhile.

At the moment, the "cost" of changing my IP address is momentarily
rebooting the router (sometimes it takes a few cycles). You are precisely
agreeing with me in that I am trying to get that "effort" down to zero by
intelligent setup of the router (to make it dial into the PPPoE account on
demand).

I think I've set the router to do that so we are testing it now (it failed
the first test, but, my test may have been flawed as I had shut down the
modem).

> That's like taking a shower in a
> public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
> over is "more private". Yeah, right....

It's more like the ISP is putting my name tag (i.e., my assigned DHCP IP
address) over my shower in a very public place where everyone else is
taking a shower ... but their (and your) ISP doesn't put their/your name
tag over their/your shower so folks are not concerned with my problem with
it because they don't have the same problem.

> By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
> to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
> hotspot all the time.

I think we've established that this is additive to security. Of course, we
all know that a security camera can record that you were there and that
someone can walk by and watch what you're doing (think tempest) ... but
what we were talking about specifically was the PACKET traffic.

I think we've reliably established the only thing that the PACKET traffic
reveals about you (other than the content which is likely more revealing
overall in a global sense) is that you CHANGED your MAC address.


> No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
> "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
> its own right).

Thousands of identity theft victims believed as you do. I understand your
point, and you understand mine, so we can just agree to disagree that
setting up a router to automatically dial into a PPPoE account on demand is
pointless (I believe it isn't; you believe it is).


> If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
> has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
> instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
> having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.

Sigh. You do understand the situation well. So do I. It all boils down to
the shower-curtain analogy. THEY don't have THEIR assigned IP address on
their shower stall in the public shower; I do.

That makes my situation different than most of theirs. I know you
understand that. But they (seemingly) fail to understand that; yet, in
their willingness to help (which I do appreciate) they try to put me in
their shower slippers instead of the other way around.

> So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
> thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead.

It will. For the five seconds it takes to change the MAC address, the
security is additive and provides good ROI.

> If you give me reason to track you down, it won't even slow me down.

Please realize I never said it would. All you'd need to do is tempest
monitoring or security cameras or food receipts or interviewing the hotel
employees, etc. I KNOW that. That was NEVER the issue. Why people can't get
that in their minds (yes, I know you understand), is beyond me. All I was
asking on the MAC address question was about the tattletale bit.

Some people, sounding very knowledgeable, say there is "no such thing";
while others, sounding just as knowledgeable sare "there is such a thing".
From what I read (and posted the references), there is such a thing but I
asked the jury to help me here as we already determined changing the MAC
address prior to initating a public hotspot connection IS additive.

> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
> Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.

I disagree with this whole set of statements (including the first line).

You don't just want to be read ... you want the answers (what good is being
read without getting the answer????).

If you want the answer to the question, then you ask good questions and you
respond promptly, accurately, and courteously to all questions that try to
flesh out the problem ... and then you diligently try the viable suggested
solutions.

Can anyone say I am not?

In summary ... I asked many times how to force the router to dial into the
PPPoE account on demand ... and I am in the middle of tests from the one or
two answers which provided how to do that ... I hope these tests work ...
I'll know tomorrow morning after the router and modem have been down for a
few hours.

My IP adddress is current: NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.110.16.49

Tomorrow, if it's different ... then we will have succeeded and I will
thank you all for your kind help!

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

How the NNTP psting host gets added to the post is dependent on the
software that injects the posting into the newsfeed. This software is
probably at your ISP, which means they get to set the policy of how it
is set. If you want to truly change it, you need to either find an
ISP specific solution, or use a different method of getting your news
into the newsfeed. Whether there exists an ISP specific solution,
depends on your ISP. For example, my ISP does not associate my
postings with my computer--in fact, it doesn't even know the name, IP,
or MAC address of my computer.

Now, when I talk about my ISP (The World), I'm not talking about my
cable provider, which is what connects my home to the (and does know
my computers IP and MAC address) internet, nor the way my work setup
is connected to the internet either. I am talking about a specifc
company that provides exactly the service of getting mail and news
from the internet and posting news onto the internet--thus I should
probably really call it my mail/news service provider. I do that for
exactly the opposite reason of what you are asking for, so that I have
a well know address that people can reach me at that doesn't change
over the years. However, one could use it to get what you want
privacy.

I have also used "free email" addresses to get something closer to the
anonymity you are seeking. Those are relatively effective. You can
use those to create postings, if you learn how, and if so, you are
likely to be mostly anonymous, and your posting won't be easily
(i.e. by your kids) tracked back to you, unless they hire a
professional.

If they hire a professional to track down your information, you aren't
likely to be able to get the privacy you desire. (So, for instance, if
you are cheating on your husband, he will find that information out,
even if you try to keep it private. Noreover, he will find out not
via tracking your internet posting IPs. As they say, been there, done
that.) You should also assume that most "kooks" are capable of doing
what professionals do.

In other words, a motivated person can break your privacy shield. An
unmotivated person will probably never know (nor care that) you are
trying to keep something private. There are simple things that can
assist your privacy. Using a free email service to create a
"disposable" email address is one of them. Trying to hide your home
computers posting address, is not one of them. If you want to
disassociate from some posting, DON'T DO IT FROM YOUR HOME COMPUTER.

If you are ashamed of your previous postings, sorry it is too late.
You are better off figuring out how to deal with your choices of
actions, rather than trying to hide from them.

You keep trying the attention of this thread on how to hide your
IP/NNTP posting host. You may or may not be able to do that via an
ISP specific solution. Most DSL modems and routers aren't designed to
make it easy for you to change their IP address by forcing them to
renew it. Keeping the IP address constant is an efficiency issue. It
is generally more useful to keep the address constant, than it is to
change it. However, with a server that has more potential modems
connected than addresses, it is useful to "release" addresses of
modems that aren't connected, because the assumption is that most
modems are not connected, because they can't all be connected, given
that there aren't enough addresses. Therefore, your ISP may recycle
IP addresses, to serve a large community with fewer resources. Still,
that is for their benefit not yours, and how often they recycle
addresses may (or may not) be something you can influence. You can
play with your modem settings (and it is more likely the modem
settings if you have a separate modem and router--note my modem has NO
user configurable settings). However, even if you change them, you may
have to turn your modem off to get it to release the IP address.
Moorever, your IP may reassign the same IP address when your modem is
turned back on, if that is convenient to them, and quite likely will
give you the same address if your modem is off for a sufficiently
short period of time.

Note, if your modem has a MAC address, I defintely recommend NOT
trying to change that. It is quite likely that your ISP keeps a list
of the valid MAC addresses for the modems connected to its service,
and only allows those MAC addresses to connect. By the way, many ISPs
use the MAC address of the first "computer" (or router) after the
modem as the address they keep in their database (at least that's what
my last 3 cable providers have done). That's one of the reasons many
home routers allow one to override the hardwired MAC address, so that
one can make it look like the computer the network was originally
"provisioned" for. Thus, I wouldn't change the routers MAC address
either.

However, the key point of all of this, is that if you want your
postings/email to come from a different address, then do that. Use a
different way of injecting your eamil/news into the web rather than
simply posting from your home. However, don't try to achieve that by
fiddling with your local computers IP address. Wrong solution to the
problem.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************************ *****************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:01:48 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> Very well said Chris.

Hi Dana,

Even though Chris didn't offer a viable solution that was easier or less
expensive than simply rebooting the router each morning ...

He DID supply a thoughtful and comprehensive explanation of why people are
so completely against me trying to force my router to dial into the PPPoE
connection upon demand in order to not have the same IP address broadcast
to everyone on every posting I provide.

We both could tell, just from his speech, that he was an educated
intelligent person who had an opinion on the matter which he courteously
supplied ... and which I appreciate ... as I need his (and your) help in
order to resolve my technical dilemma.

Thank you all for your very kind help ... I hope (after all this), we
finally do figure out how to get the router to dial into the DHCP PPPoE
account on demand!

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

Well, it seems you have solved your problem. Whether you can automate
that solution is another question. I have a "similar" problem, that I
use a slightly different solution to, and which may guide you to a
better solution. Sometimes my modem gets stuck and needs to be
rebooted (and when that happens, you need to power it and the router
off). Therefore, I put the modem on a surge protect (power strip)
with a convenient button right below my screen. If things get stuck,
I trun it off, wait for 30 seconds and turn it back on. Viola.

Now, you can also get things (power controllers) like that, where your
computer can send commands to turn the thing off-and-on (often called
X10 devices). I don't know much about them, but I bet you could get
one of those to power your router and/or modem and thus have your
computer turn the router off and on once per night and then check the
ip address and do it again, until it got a new one. Now, your
shower-stall has a changing IP address.

I still don't think anyone is ever going to look at your IP address,
but I'm pretty much on the opposite end of paranoid, despite having
closely know people whose identities were stolen--and that's because
I'm pretty certain that their identities were not stolen by using the
same name over and over again, but by other forms of carelessness.

I lock my car when I go to work or the mall, but not when it is at
home in my garage, even though there is "only" an electric garage door
opener protecting it there. My wife locks her car even at home. That
helps her sleep better.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************************ *****************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

"#2 Aluxe" wrote in message
news:jj21gs0iv5a6.l0a59e77iqs7$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:01:48 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> > Very well said Chris.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Even though Chris didn't offer a viable solution that was easier or less
> expensive than simply rebooting the router each morning ...
>
> He DID supply a thoughtful and comprehensive explanation of why people are
> so completely against me trying to force my router to dial into the PPPoE
> connection upon demand in order to not have the same IP address broadcast
> to everyone on every posting I provide.
>
> We both could tell, just from his speech, that he was an educated
> intelligent person who had an opinion on the matter which he courteously
> supplied ... and which I appreciate ... as I need his (and your) help in
> order to resolve my technical dilemma.
>
> Thank you all for your very kind help ... I hope (after all this), we
> finally do figure out how to get the router to dial into the DHCP PPPoE
> account on demand!

It is not that people do not want to help, it is the issue that the solution
you are looking for, will really not help you in your goal.
Changing your IP or MAC address on your computer hooked to the DSL
connection you change will not add to your privacy.
As Chris said, using Unix/Linux (and even windows, just takes a lot more
work), and bypassing an ISP (in other words you directly connect to the
internet), make it a lot easier to hide your identity from those looking.
You would still not be invisible, but it would take more work to find out
who you are.

For you to achieve your goal of posting in privacy on the internet, you will
have to pay a service provider that offers that service.
What they do is they do not forward your headers (your nntp posting host
line, etc) and instead use theirs, that basically hides where you post from.
Or you can get a linux OS and a news reader that allows you to modify your
headers. But then to really hide yourself you would have to read up on the
NNTP RFC
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc977.txt
In another post you mentioned ROI, well changing your IP and MAC in this
situation does not give you a decent ROI, instead it is more like you bought
some tap water from a snake oil salesmen.
You keep going back to you want your router to reconnect via your PPOE to
get a new IP address. Well that IP address will never be yours to begin
with. If someone searches that IP address, they will find it belongs to your
ISP. They might get close to your geographical area, but that is about it.
If people want to search through the news groups to find your posts, there
are more ways to do that than just using the IP address or NNTP posting
host.
So if your goal is to be able to post anonymously on the newsgroups, pay the
20 to 30 dollars some providers charge for that service, or use an OS and
news client that will allow you to manipulate your headers.
Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
functionality.

Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:46:15 -0400, Chris F Clark wrote:

Hi Chris,

Wow again. You are obviously tuned to the realities here.
Thank you again for being cogent and coherent.

I know I will accomplish the desired task (which is simply to change the IP
address nightly automagically with even less effort than I do today) and
with your help, I may soon be able to (and that of kingthorin, Dana, Duane,
etc.).

This is a worthwhile task as once set up, there is absolutely no additional
effort and a measurable gain (for me, but, not for most of you as you don't
have this problem so you don't see the advantages).

All it takes is understanding the system.

Yet, for some strange reason, we're still "discussing" the why so, to give
you the courtesy you extended to me, I'll briefly highlight where we agree
and disagree below ...

> How the NNTP psting host gets added to the post is dependent on the
> software that injects the posting into the newsfeed. This software is
> probably at your ISP

Yes. I learned that from this thread that it was pointless to try to change
my software or my software settings as the ISP always uses my DHCP assigned
IP address as my public NNTP posting host. Sigh. I was wasting my time
changing newsreaders. Thank you all for helping me come to that conclusion.

> If you want to truly change it, you need to either find an
> ISP specific solution, or use a different method of getting your news
> into the newsfeed.

This thread is all about the former and not about the latter. Thank you all
for helping me find an ISP-specific solution to my particular dilemma
(which most of you do not have).

> For example, my ISP does not associate my
> postings with my computer--in fact, it doesn't even know the name, IP,
> or MAC address of my computer.\

Yes. I learned this from most of you on this thread. I appreciate you
informing me of this as I didn't realize that the users' assigned IP
address wasn't broadcast to the while world on every post for most users.
It just is broadcast on all MY posts! I now understand this better, thanks
to all of you.

> I do that for exactly the opposite reason of what you are asking for,
> so that I have a well know address that people can reach me at that
> doesn't change over the years.

Huh? You want the same IP address for years? I guess that's fine if you're
running a web server or an ftp account. But, why not just use the same
identifying name and email address (however bogus) if you want people to
reach you via the usenet nntp newsgroups?

Even if you are running a web server ... isn't the "domain name" sufficient
for people to reach you over the years? I don't see anything wrong with a
constant IP address in this situation ... but why is a constant IP address
for years a requirement?

In fact, 90% of the posters here say the IP address is irrelevant!
So, why do you require the same IP address (which is the real topic here)
for years? This confuses me.

> However, one could use it to get what you want privacy.
Yes. We agree. I want a different IP address each day attached to my posts.
I can keep the same bogus name and email address (I used to use my real
name and address but spammers long ago put an end to that).

Again, you're proving my point (I know you understood). The IP address
isn't what "connects" me to the users. Heck, you've been conversing with me
and I've been changing my IP address every day so far. It hasn't stopped
this conversation (some wish it would though ... :)

> I have also used "free email" addresses to get something closer to the
> anonymity you are seeking. Those are relatively effective.

So have I. I have learned how to get hotmail accounts, for example, in the
first pass, almost every time. (Most people don't know Yak.)

> If they hire a professional to track down your information, you aren't
> likely to be able to get the privacy you desire.

I agree. Time and time (and time) again, I have said that all I am looking
for is a ROI on the ability to not have my assigned IP address plastered
all over the Internet, the same IP address day after day.

Currently I accomplish that task by rebooting the router. If this was a
hugely beneficial thing, I wouldn't mind. But, it's just one small step.
So, THAT is why I'm trying to automate that one small step. To improve the
ROI by lowering the I.

If my experiment (kindly suggested in this newsgroup) of changing the
router settings to dial into the PPPoE account on demand, finally works
tonight, we'll be done!

> If you are cheating on your husband, he will find that information out,
> even if you try to keep it private. Noreover, he will find out not
> via tracking your internet posting IPs. As they say, been there, done
> that.)

I fully agree. You might not be amazed at what I can find out about you in
about two minutes if your address you posted is actually valid - but many
others might be.

Not only can I find out all about you, but all about your neighbors and
their kin. And the layout of your and their house, how many bedrooms,
square feet, when and how much you bought it, and a photo of your back
yard, and, given a few hours, your automobile license plate, where you
work, social security death benefits of your next of kin, photos of your
kids at school, yada yada yada.

This question was never about that.

Understand the whole "husband" thing was merely a made-up example to give
the honest answer to the many questions of "why" without actually giving
out any real private information. Does anyone really think any of the
information in my post, other than the obvious technical data, is real?

End result ... no need to worry about my "husband" ... whomever he may be.

> You keep trying the attention of this thread on how to hide your
> IP/NNTP posting host. You may or may not be able to do that via an
> ISP specific solution. Most DSL modems and routers aren't designed to
> make it easy for you to change their IP address by forcing them to
> renew it. Keeping the IP address constant is an efficiency issue.

Now we're getting to the meat of the issue! Your whole discussion here was
enlightening. It didn't solve the problem; but it helped greatly to
understand the situation and the interesting perspective of the ISP.

> Moorever, your IP may reassign the same IP address when your modem is
> turned back on, if that is convenient to them, and quite likely will
> give you the same address if your modem is off for a sufficiently
> short period of time.

Yep. Both happen all the time. Even more so now that I've set the router to
PPPoE in on demand after a fifteen-minute idle time.

> Note, if your modem has a MAC address, I defintely recommend NOT
> trying to change that. It is quite likely that your ISP keeps a list
> of the valid MAC addresses for the modems connected to its service,
> and only allows those MAC addresses to connect.

Hmmmm... I never even thought about changing the MAC address of the modem
.... hmmmm... :)

> Thus, I wouldn't change the routers MAC address either.

Too late. I changed the router's MAC address multiple times already since
the start of this thread while experimenting on the effects. My ISP hasn't
booted me off yet but there have been no other effects to date.

> However, the key point of all of this, is that if you want your
> postings/email to come from a different address, then do that. Use a
> different way of injecting your eamil/news into the web rather than
> simply posting from your home. However, don't try to achieve that by
> fiddling with your local computers IP address. Wrong solution to the
> problem.

Here, in your final point, we must agree to disagree.
Currently, the only cost of changing the address that associates me with
every post is I have to manually unplug and replug my router.

If the settings recommended by this newsgroup are correct, I won't even
have to do that tomorrow.

So, basically for free (once the settings work automatically), I believe it
is additive to my privacy (in a way that is greater than the investment,
which, over time, approaches zero).

What's wrong with a bunch of little privacy steps, each one of which, over
time, approaches an investment of zero yet which provides, over time, a
constant additive benefit - this just being one of them?