Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

When I visit other networks (friends' homes and companies for work) I can
check my mail with no issues at all. But when i try to send mail, sometimes
changing the outgoing mail server is all that is required, and sometimes it
gets downright Machiavellian. Some outgoing servers require authorization,
for which my host is willing to give me their e-mail and password. Sometimes
this works, but as in my current situation, it does not.

Currently, I'm visiting friends for an extended stay and I helped them order
and install Verizon DSL. I have not succeeded in my attempts to send any mail
from my computer through Verizon. I have 2 mail accounts (non-Verizon) but
although I've tried changing the many parameters in Eudora's Settings that
have to do with sending mail, nothing seems to satisfy the Gods of Outgoing
Mail.

Each time Eudora goes through what looks like a mail-sending task, but when
it's done, the messages remain queued in the Out Box window.

I've used outgoing.verizon.net as the SMTP server, and I've checked the Allow
Authentication check box. I also tried the "Use submission port (587)"
option, but no joy. I've created a new account account ("Verizon") with the
e-mail address and password of my host's Verizon account, and chosen this
personality as the SMTP Relay Personality (in the "Sending Mail" Settings
panel). Still no joy.

What am I missing? Any suggestions?

PowerBook G3/400; OS X 10.3.9; Eudora 6.2.3
My mail accounts are at gmail and aim

Thanks,
--
John English

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

"John E." wrote in message
news:0001HW.C161AD610004CA26F04075B0@news.readfreenews.net

> When I visit other networks (friends' homes and companies for work) I
> can check my mail with no issues at all. But when i try to send mail,
> sometimes changing the outgoing mail server is all that is required,
> and sometimes it gets downright Machiavellian. Some outgoing servers
> require authorization, for which my host is willing to give me their
> e-mail and password. Sometimes this works, but as in my current
> situation, it does not.

You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping their
username/password identities. NEVER DO THAT! Use a webmail client to connect
to your own SMTP server. If your ISP or other mail provider doesn't offer a
webmail interface, tell them to get one or get another service provider.

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Sur 2006-10-22, John E. skribis:
> When I visit other networks (friends' homes and companies for
> work) I can check my mail with no issues at all. But when i try
> to send mail, sometimes changing the outgoing mail server is
> all that is required, and sometimes it gets downright
> Machiavellian. Some outgoing servers require authorization, for
> which my host is willing to give me their e-mail and password.
> Sometimes this works, but as in my current situation, it does
> not.

This is a common problem these days and what you need to do is
get an email service provider that offers SMTP AUTH and then use
that provider's outgoing SMTP server with *your* username &
password in your Eudora outgoing SMTP specification. This should
work regardless of who you are using as your internet *access*
provider (Verizon, AOL, etc). I use tuffmail.com for this, but
there are many email service providers who offer SMTP AUTH. Some
are listed on my IMAP Service Providers page, which is here:



Hope this helps,
Nancy

--
Nancy McGough
Infinite Ink:
Bookmarks & Blog:

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Sur 2006-10-23, NM Public skribis:
> This is a common problem these days and what you need to do is
> get an email service provider that offers SMTP AUTH and then
> use that provider's outgoing SMTP server with *your* username &
> password in your Eudora outgoing SMTP specification. This
> should work regardless of who you are using as your internet
> *access* provider (Verizon, AOL, etc). I use tuffmail.com for
> this, but there are many email service providers who offer SMTP
> AUTH. Some are listed on my IMAP Service Providers page, which
> is here:
>
>


PS - Since you mention that you have a Gmail account, you could
use Gmail's outgoing SMTP server to send your email from Eudora.
Make sure that you "validate" all your email addresses that you
will use in a From: header. I have some details and links about
this here:



The most relevant link is this:

How do I customize the 'From:' address on outgoing mail?


This is part of my "Power Pine" page, but a lot of these Gmail
Tips are relevant to all email clients.

Hope this helps,
Nancy

--
Nancy McGough
Infinite Ink:
Bookmarks & Blog:

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

John E. wrote:

>Each time Eudora goes through what looks like a mail-sending task, but when
>it's done, the messages remain queued in the Out Box window.

I've noticed someone called Frank1492 has just posted a very similar
message about Eudora not working with Verizon in
comp.mail,eudora.mswindows. Assuming Frank1492 and JohnE are two
seperate people, it sounds like a problem with Verizon. The replies to
that other thread may also be applicable to you.

One possibility is that Verizon's outgoing SMTP could have been
horribly slow. I use an SMTP sometimes which has response times
ranging from two seconds to two minutes and Eudora does exactly what
you describe when the remote server is overloaded with people mailing
through it. However, it isn't a permanent error. if I check mail again
then the mail usually goes through the second time.

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Landmark:

> I've noticed someone called Frank1492 has just posted a very similar
> message about Eudora not working with Verizon in
> comp.mail,eudora.mswindows. Assuming Frank1492 and JohnE are two
> seperate people, it sounds like a problem with Verizon. The replies to
> that other thread may also be applicable to you.

Thanks. I'll look up this thread.

> One possibility is that Verizon's outgoing SMTP could have been
> horribly slow. I use an SMTP sometimes which has response times
> ranging from two seconds to two minutes and Eudora does exactly what
> you describe when the remote server is overloaded with people mailing
> through it. However, it isn't a permanent error. if I check mail again
> then the mail usually goes through the second time.

A possibility. During my many attempts, I think I remember one just sitting
there with the Status window showing "connecting to nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn" but not
completing.

Thanks,
--
John English

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Don't you just love those replies that don't answer any question you pose,
but instead, TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?

Patrick:

> You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping their
> username/password identities.

Usurping? How about "borrowing with permission"? I am using their username &
password to authorize outgoing mail on THEIR ISP's SERVER. How is that
different from my friend's use of it?

> NEVER DO THAT!

Hmm... Less caffeine?

> Use a webmail client to connect
> to your own SMTP server. If your ISP or other mail provider doesn't offer a
> webmail interface, tell them to get one or get another service provider.

Using Eudora as a mail client gives me many benefits (keeping outgoing copies
organized by date, etc.) which are not available -- or are much more
convoluted to achieve the same results -- with web mail interface. I can use
the web interface to both my accounts, but I lose the orderliness of Eudora
by doing so. I want to find out if I can send mail through Verizon, if at all
possible.
--
John English

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Elmo P. Shagnasty:

> If you're using your own ISP's email system, you will be limited as has
> been described earlier.
>
> Your best bet, if you want POP or IMAP email from anywhere

Getting my mail *from* my account is not the issue. I can get my mail
anywhere, anytime. I'm spending time writing this thread because of
*outgoing* mail issue I'm having with Verizon's SMTP server.

> regardless of
> your internet connection, is a third party email system that's not
> related to your ISP.

That's *all* I use: gmail, which is a "third party email system".

> Otherwise, when away from home you'll be limited to your ISP's webmail
> or going through convolutions you've already described--which aren't
> always available.
>
> For example, if you're out someplace with wireless access at a
> restaurant, you'll run into the same issues.

When I'm traveling and I find myself accessing the Internet via, for example,
Comcast, I can send mail via the Comcast SMTP server without a problem. It's
just with specific ISPs, Verizon being my current nemesis.

> This is a security feature that your ISP has set up for its email.
> They'll allow you to send email only if you're physically connected
> to their system.

This statement is simply not true. Outgoing mail from my laptop never goes
anywhere near gmail servers. It only goes through the current provider's SMTP
server (ie, Verizon, in my current situation) and to its destination.

"My" ISP (at home) is SBC. I have no account there (I share my roommates'
wireless network) and have no SBC e-mail address. I can send my gmail-labeled
mail through SBC's SMTP server without authentication, without a problem.
This setup is identical to my current setup: I am not a customer of the
internet service I'm currently using (Verizon), yet I'm having trouble
getting mail through their SMTP server. I don't know if this is intentional
or just a bung-up. Because the results are different (SBC = yes; Verizon =
no) with similar conditions (no account at either provider), I'm still
scratching my head.

> But a dedicated email provider will give you authorization access such
> that you can be connected anywhere and use them in the normal manner.

Sending mail has nothing *at all* to do with who my mail service is with
(gmail), and *everything* to do with whose Internet service I'm currently
using (Verizon). I just don't know if it's a Eudora settings issue or a
Verizon security issue. Both should be fixable, though; the former with
proper configuratioin of Eudora's Settings; the latter with my friend's
Verizon authentication information.

Why can't I fix this?

Further constructive suggestions welcome.

Thanks,
--
John English

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

In article <0001HW.C1621FA40007E1E2F04075B0@news.readfreenews.net>,
John E. wrote:

> Don't you just love those replies that don't answer any question you pose,
> but instead, TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?
>
> Patrick:
>
> > You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping their
> > username/password identities.
>
> Usurping? How about "borrowing with permission"? I am using their username &
> password to authorize outgoing mail on THEIR ISP's SERVER. How is that
> different from my friend's use of it?

It is probably a violation of their terms of service.

I think Patrick was way over the top in his rant, since any violation is
not of your friends (who presumably trust you with good justification)
but rather of ISP's like Verizon, who set such rules without the
slightest intention of enforcing them consistently and really intend
them to be ways to hold customers responsible for various abusive edge
cases. The intent of the rule is not really its full scope, and as long
the person sharing the authentication info with you understands that
they are accepting responsibility for your actions, there's no harm.

(Unless you are truly evil, which is presumed false....:)

As to your original question... Verizon has a history of using all sorts
of weird homegrown spam control mechanisms because they seem to consider
anything used widely by other providers to be beneath them. I don't know
what their current absurdity is, but for years they allowed relaying
with no authentication as long as your mail's From header had a valid
address in one of their customer domains. They also do a very unwise
trick called "sender verification" that involves faking the process of
sending mail to sender addresses synchronously with the acceptance of
mail, and that can cause bad stalling as well as odd failures. If they
try it against an address in a domain that has implemented verification
in the same broken manner as VZ, the result is a long slow deadlock
before failure. (Queue the Highlander...)


The best solution is indeed to find some access-neutral path for mail
submission. GMail is a good choice if you don't want to run your own
server just for mail because they do the most right thing:
authentication over TLS on the mail submission port (587) that no
rational access provider blocks.

--
Now where did I hide that website...

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

In article <0001HW.C1622F78000B9789F04075B0@news.readfreenews.net>,
John E. wrote:

> That's *all* I use: gmail, which is a "third party email system".

You should use them for outgoing mail as well. See their site for full
instructions, but in short: they allow authenticated submission over
port 587 with SSL/TLS. Eudora works just fine with them.

>
> > Otherwise, when away from home you'll be limited to your ISP's webmail
> > or going through convolutions you've already described--which aren't
> > always available.
> >
> > For example, if you're out someplace with wireless access at a
> > restaurant, you'll run into the same issues.
>
> When I'm traveling and I find myself accessing the Internet via, for example,
> Comcast, I can send mail via the Comcast SMTP server without a problem. It's
> just with specific ISPs, Verizon being my current nemesis.

That's because every ISP likes to do things their own way. Historically
it was workable to just restrict access by IP address, and that is still
good enough in most cases, but it is not a perfect solution. Various
providers use different means to solve the edge cases.

> > This is a security feature that your ISP has set up for its email.
> > They'll allow you to send email only if you're physically connected
> > to their system.
>
> This statement is simply not true. Outgoing mail from my laptop never goes
> anywhere near gmail servers. It only goes through the current provider's SMTP
> server (ie, Verizon, in my current situation) and to its destination.

Actually, he could be right. Some providers are playing around with SPF
and SenderID in ways that can make other mail server operators highly
suspicious of mail claiming to be from an unfamiliar domain that is not
coming from a published legit source of mail from that domain.


> "My" ISP (at home) is SBC. I have no account there (I share my roommates'
> wireless network) and have no SBC e-mail address. I can send my gmail-labeled
> mail through SBC's SMTP server without authentication, without a problem.
> This setup is identical to my current setup: I am not a customer of the
> internet service I'm currently using (Verizon), yet I'm having trouble
> getting mail through their SMTP server. I don't know if this is intentional
> or just a bung-up. Because the results are different (SBC = yes; Verizon =
> no) with similar conditions (no account at either provider), I'm still
> scratching my head.

SBC and VZ take different approaches to "We're The Phone Company, So
We're Right"

There are at least 3 distinctly different submission paths for SBC DSL
customers and people hitchhiking on those connections. Depoending on
which server you use, you either need to be authenticated, using an SBC
IP address, using the right From address, or 2 or more of those
criteria.


> > But a dedicated email provider will give you authorization access such
> > that you can be connected anywhere and use them in the normal manner.
>
> Sending mail has nothing *at all* to do with who my mail service is with
> (gmail), and *everything* to do with whose Internet service I'm currently
> using (Verizon). I just don't know if it's a Eudora settings issue or a
> Verizon security issue. Both should be fixable, though; the former with
> proper configuratioin of Eudora's Settings; the latter with my friend's
> Verizon authentication information.
>
> Why can't I fix this?

VZ doesn't want what you're trying to do to work. They'd rather not have
non-customers using their mail servers. They've expressed that in
different ways over the years with off mail server behavior, but it has
been a common thread: they don't support the use of non-VZ email
addresses as senders in their outbound mail system.

> Further constructive suggestions welcome.

Use an access-neutral and sender-neutral submission path. Google offers
that with GMail and you're already a GMail user. Set it up once, and it
will work from anywhere.

--
Now where did I hide that website...

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:bill-FB0A87.11161723102006@news.det.sbcglobal.net

>>> You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping
>>> their username/password identities.
>>
>> Usurping? How about "borrowing with permission"? I am using their
>> username & password to authorize outgoing mail on THEIR ISP's
>> SERVER. How is that different from my friend's use of it?
>
> It is probably a violation of their terms of service.

It is a violation of the trust that a customer or friend has in one. Anytime
in the future that those friends have a problem with their email, the OP
will be suspect because he knows the username/password.

Any competent person would not need to know that information about others.

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

John E. wrote:
[deleted]

> Using Eudora as a mail client gives me many benefits (keeping outgoing copies
> organized by date, etc.) which are not available -- or are much more
> convoluted to achieve the same results -- with web mail interface. I can use
> the web interface to both my accounts, but I lose the orderliness of Eudora
> by doing so. I want to find out if I can send mail through Verizon, if at all
> possible.

Others already gave the 'best' solution, i.e. use the SMTP server of
a/your *M*SP (Mail Service Provider), in your case Gmail, with a port
*other* than the standard port 25 (because many *I*SPs (i.e. those of
your friends/customers) block outgoing port 25 (for servers other than
the ISP's)).

*If* you don't want to do the above, or you can't get it to work etc.,
you can have a look at FreePOPs [1]. FreePOPs is a small SMTP (and POP)
server which sits between your 'mailer'/MUA, i.e. Eudora in your case,
and your webmail service, i.e. Gmail in your case. As the name implies,
you can also POP incoming webmail with FreePOPs, but since you seem to
have direct POP from Gmail working, you don't need that part.

[1]

Re: Eudora won"t send mail through Verizon service

John E. writes:


>Each time Eudora goes through what looks like a mail-sending task, but when
>it's done, the messages remain queued in the Out Box window.

>I've used outgoing.verizon.net as the SMTP server, and I've checked the Allow
>Authentication check box. I also tried the "Use submission port (587)"
>option, but no joy. I've created a new account account ("Verizon") with the
>e-mail address and password of my host's Verizon account, and chosen this
>personality as the SMTP Relay Personality (in the "Sending Mail" Settings
>panel). Still no joy.

>What am I missing? Any suggestions?


Similar issue:

I am helping someone on a Verizontal Business DSL account. They grab
mail from a remote account, but can not use 587 to it for outgoing.
[Braindead policies there..]

I've set up a secondary VZ email username/password, and put those
into a Eudora 6.2.1 Relay Personality entry.

We have the incoming.verizon.net & outgoing.verizon.net set
appropriately. [And BTW, outgoing. does NOT listen on 587; stoopid.]

It keeps working for a while, then demands the password again,
as if Eudora forgot it or VZ decided it was wrong. Sometimes it takes
several tries.

I had him set it to poll mail from that otherwise unused account
every 10 minutes in case that would help, no joy.

But inbetween demanding the PW, it DOES send mail. And the login/pw
work to send/receive webmail with whomever VZ has contracted that
out to [?mailserv.com maybe?].

[Side issue -- another new secondary account we tried first would
never accept mail for outgoing, but did work with webmail.
WTH, over?]

Oh, and a Windoze Eudora box on the same LAN has no problems like this.

Any ideas what to check when I get there?


--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433