Yahoo sending 451 Message Deferred Errors to Everyone

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=AB ~stevenf: How to Live | Main | Minor Typepad request... =BB
October 31, 2006
Yahoo sending 451 Message Deferred Errors to Everyone

Yahoo sending 451 Message Deferred Errors to Everyone:

If you use Yahoo! mail as your main email account, you might not be
receiving all of your emails.

What is Yahoo thinking??? Recently Yahoo has started "greylisting"
almost every email that goes through their mail server. Greylisting is
a way of attempting to block SPAM. Yahoo mail denies the first delivery
attempt of an email (451 Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.50). They
assume that SPAMers don't try sending the same email twice, so they put
the ip address of that email server on a list and then if the delivery
is retried within a short amount of time, they assume that it is a good
email.

Now here is the downside. Do you think that spammers care one wit
whether they send a "spammy" email once, twice or a thousand times? No,
they don't. All Yahoo is doing is increasing the problem. Now instead
of being hit by one SPAM email, you'll get three.

Since about October 16, 2006 they have been "overly aggressive" in
blocking emails.

Yahoo! Mail has become more aggressive in its acceptance of SMTP
connections and denies connections by IP address when these connections
do not conform to Internet standard practices.

This results in people that have been sending email to the same person
for the past 3+ years to suddenly not be able to send email. Even when
the sender is "conforming to Internet standard practices. Consider this
report from DNSReport.com

Interesting to hear more about this from folks -- I was about to commit
to moving my email to yahoo, but perhaps I ought to integrate with
gmail instead?

What's really interesting to read is the comments; to be honest, I
don't have a problem with greylisting, and the person complaining about
that gets it wrong -- but if what he describes is really true, then
yahoo IN GENERAL has a problem, it's not greylisting causing the
problem (unless it's getting the greylisting data distributed to all of
the incoming relays on a timely basis that's causing this...).

In any event, greylisting is a fairly well-known technology that works,
at least right now, because spammers haven't bothered to program around
it yet. At some point, they likely will, though, since there's no
inherent reason for a zombied machine to NOT be able to do so; there
are any number of ways to get around greylisting if you're doing more
than a slash-and-burn on an open relay, so like many anti-spam
techniques, greylisting's working mostly because it convinces the
spammer to go spam the other guy who doesn't greylist because it's
easier...

But I'm curious. are people seeing problems with yahoo mail? Should I
not commit to it right now?



Posted by chuqui on October 31, 2006 at 06:15 PM in About Me, Web/Tech
| Permalink
Comments

I run an ISP (in the form of a hosting/colo facility) and we manage
mail for a LOT of domains. Yahoo, is BY FAR the worst of the large mail
providers to exchange mail with. I can look at our mail servers at any
given time of day or night and routinely see between 300 to 1000
messages queued up for Yahoo on all of them. Our delivery times to
yahoo.com addresses are miserable and our customers are furious. There
is NOTHING we can do about it. We've jumped through all the hoops, and
what that post says is true, Yahoo has absolutely no human beings you
can talk to in order to fix the problem... or if they do, they WON'T
talk to you.

I have one client, who runs a large number of web services for real
estate agents who is about -><- this close to killing me. She's
screaming that her agents are losing sales because they can't mail to
yahoo.com... or if they can, their mail is hours and hours late. I
literally spend some of my days, force-reloading my SMTP mail queues to
yahoo.com to keep her off my back.

Compare this with AOL, who have an excellent postmaster group to work
with. I can call them, an they pick up the phone(!), hell, I even have
some of them in my iChat buddy list so we can work out issues in
real-time. They provide me with a copy of EVERY SINGLE mail out of my
netblock that their users report as spam (some interesting reading I
might add, that provides insight into the truly dismal state of
email...) But Yahoo? Nothing useful, and obviously no clue whatsoever
on how to work with peers on the net.

I used to use yahoo!mail as a way to create throwaway emails for things
like job postings (during the tech sag of 01-04 if you advertised a
tech support job you would be flooded with desperate geeks, by mail,
fax, and in-person!) but never again having seen how they are making
hash of inbound SMTP.

It is worse, by far, than even .mac! ;)

--chuck

Posted by: chuck goolsbee | October 31, 2006 at 07:00 PM


Yahoo mail is currently bouncing email sent from a Yahoo group that I
belong to!

I tried to click on the reconfirm your address link, but it just takes
me to a page listing all my email addresses. The address still shows as
soft bouncing.

I am pretty fed up.

Posted by: Mike | October 31, 2006 at 08:02 PM


OK. I set up an sbcglobal.net account for my yahoo groups because,
well, they ARE yahoo.
So what happens, my yahoo groups e-mail bounces! This is Yahoo bouncing
Yahoo. This is Nuts!
They had better get their act together. There is always Google.

Posted by: AuntieM | October 31, 2006 at 08:28 PM