keyboard

Hi
Anyone know why all my special characters are typing wrong on OS X
eg.forward slash symbol types as =E9
I=E8ve checked the keyboard settings and still
Everything types properly in OS9.x.x


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Re: keyboard

Problem Solved
you need to select USA instead of Canadian in the keyboard preferences
They think we are ALL AMERICANS

On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 01:32 PM, print wrote:

> Hi
> Anyone know why all my special characters are typing wrong on OS X
> eg.forward slash symbol types as =E9
> I=E8ve checked the keyboard settings and still
> Everything types properly in OS9.x.x
>


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Re:

----__JWM__J2e6a.75ecS.2c70M
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252


Hmmm... somewhat new to the inner details... all I know is what I resear=
ch on my own... have not had a book-learning course on this... but TLS..=
.. what is that? AND... I simply want a list of source identifiers of inc=
oming requests so that I can check each new one for duplicate incoming s=
ource... just a HITS vs UNIQUE VISITORS. I want NOTHING MORE. I can do a=
dd'l tracking based on time, date, etc, on my own. Just site usage stati=
stics.

See us online at http://www.LOVEnCompany.com.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Brian Mearns
To: users@httpd.apache.org
Subject: Re: [users@httpd]
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:34:24 -0500

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric Covener wrote:=

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Stephen Love w=
rote:
>> So what you are telling me is that there IS no REAL 2-way handshaking=
going
>> on. Then we've lost ALL hope of security.
>>
>
> What's "REAL" in this context? It's not authenticated and doesn't
> result in some session establishment unless you configure your
> application to require/manage such a thing?
>
> --
> Eric Covener
> covener@gmail.com
[clip]

Yes, why don't you tell us exactly what you want to do, what's your
end goal? Visitor stats? Geographic locating? Authentication of a
real-world identity? There's a lot of very bright and very
knowledgeable people on this list, so if there's any way at all to do
what you want, then there is a very good chance that somebody here
will be able to tell you. It just might not be done the way you think
it should be.

As many of us have said, TCP is an end to end protocol. And in fact,
it is stateful, so you can send messages back and forth between the
two end points for as long as the connection is open. There is a
handshake that goes on between the two end points to setup this
connection, but this is not any sort of real authentication process
that confirms the identity of either end. What TCP gets you is pretty
good confidence that you are talking to the same person you were when
you started the conversation, but even that confidence is really only
upheld in the absence of active attacks like IP spoofing, and it
provides absolutely no confidence that there aren't other people
listening to the conversation, and potentially even participating in
the conversation.

If you're looking for security: like making sure no one else is
listening to the conversation, no one else is modifying the
conversation data, and or making sure that the person on the other end
is who they claim to be...then you're going to need a much more
sophisticated protocol than TCP, IP, or HTTP. SSL/TLS provides all
these things, with the latest TLS version believed to be quite secure
with current technologies and techniques. HTTPS layers HTTP over a
secure SSL or TLS connection, and is available in Apache with mod_ssl.

Your comment that "we've lost ALL hope of security" is quite accurate
with regards to HTTP, TCP, and IP alone. These protocols were really
not designed with any attention to security as security wasn't really
an acknowledged concern at the time they were created. Thus we have
add on protocols like SSL and TLS.

Anyway, back to my point: tell us what you're actually trying to do
and there's a good chance someone can help you, as long as you're
willing to let go of any preconceived notions on how to get the job
done (that's always the biggest stumbling block to learning something
new).

Cheers,
-Brian

-- =

Feel free to contact me using PGP Encryption:
Key Id: 0x3AA70848
Available from: http://keys.gnupg.net

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Projec=
t.
See for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
____________________________________________________________
Pharmacy Assistant School
Earn a Pharmacy Technician Degree. Get free info and Apply Today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=3DWBLHA3h-sZmv JlqBAjcAQQAA=
Jz1cSR5zxtI8-KAHzBSY23cQAAQAAAAFAAAAAKwcGj4AAANSAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAABNldwAA=
AAA=3D
----__JWM__J2e6a.75ecS.2c70M
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252


Hmmm... somewhat new to the inner details... all I know is wha=
t I research on my own... have not had a book-learning course on this...=
but TLS... what is that? AND... I simply want a list of source identifi=
ers of incoming requests so that I can check each new one for duplicate =
incoming source... just a HITS vs UNIQUE VISITORS. I want NOTHING MORE. =
I can do add'l tracking based on time, date, etc, on my own. Just site u=
sage statistics.

See us online at http://www.LOVEnCompany.com. >
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Brian Mearns <me=
arns.b@gmail.com>
To: users@httpd.apache.org
Subject: Re: [user=
s@httpd]
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:34:24 -0500

On Tue, Nov 10,=
2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric Covener <covener@gmail.com> wrote:
> =
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Stephen Love <stephenlove@juno.com&g=
t; wrote:
>> So what you are telling me is that there IS no REA=
L 2-way handshaking going
>> on. Then we've lost ALL hope of se=
curity.
>>
>
> What's "REAL" in this context?  =
;It's not authenticated and doesn't
> result in some session estab=
lishment unless you configure your
> application to require/manage=
such a thing?
>
> --
> Eric Covener
> covener@g=
mail.com
[clip]

Yes, why don't you tell us exactly what you wa=
nt to do, what's your
end goal? Visitor stats? Geographic locating? A=
uthentication of a
real-world identity? There's a lot of very bright =
and very
knowledgeable people on this list, so if there's any way at =
all to do
what you want, then there is a very good chance that somebo=
dy here
will be able to tell you. It just might not be done the way y=
ou think
it should be.

As many of us have said, TCP is an end =
to end protocol. And in fact,
it is stateful, so you can send message=
s back and forth between the
two end points for as long as the connec=
tion is open. There is a
handshake that goes on between the two end p=
oints to setup this
connection, but this is not any sort of real auth=
entication process
that confirms the identity of either end. What TCP=
gets you is pretty
good confidence that you are talking to the same =
person you were when
you started the conversation, but even that conf=
idence is really only
upheld in the absence of active attacks like IP=
spoofing, and it
provides absolutely no confidence that there aren't=
other people
listening to the conversation, and potentially even par=
ticipating in
the conversation.

If you're looking for security=
: like making sure no one else is
listening to the conversation, no o=
ne else is modifying the
conversation data, and or making sure that t=
he person on the other end
is who they claim to be...then you're goin=
g to need a much more
sophisticated protocol than TCP, IP, or HTTP. S=
SL/TLS provides all
these things, with the latest TLS version believe=
d to be quite secure
with current technologies and techniques. HTTPS =
layers HTTP over a
secure SSL or TLS connection, and is available in =
Apache with mod_ssl.

Your comment that "we've lost ALL hope of se=
curity" is quite accurate
with regards to HTTP, TCP, and IP alone. Th=
ese protocols were really
not designed with any attention to security=
as security wasn't really
an acknowledged concern at the time they w=
ere created. Thus we have
add on protocols like SSL and TLS.

A=
nyway, back to my point: tell us what you're actually trying to do
an=
d there's a good chance someone can help you, as long as you're
willi=
ng to let go of any preconceived notions on how to get the job
done (=
that's always the biggest stumbling block to learning something
new).=


Cheers,
-Brian

--
Feel free to contact me using PG=
P Encryption:
Key Id: 0x3AA70848
Available from: http://keys.gnupg=
..net

------------------------------------------------------------ =
---------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP =
Server Project.
See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html>=
; for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apac=
he.org
  "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubs=
cribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@ht=
tpd.apache.org



______________________=
______________________________________

mvJlqBAjcAQQAAJz1cSR5zxtI8-KAHzBSY23cQAAQAAAAFAAAAAKwcGj4AAA NSAAAAAAAAAA=
AAAAAAABNldwAAAAA=3D target=3D"_blank">Pharmacy Assistant School
Earn=
a Pharmacy Technician Degree. Get free info and Apply Today!=


----__JWM__J2e6a.75ecS.2c70M--

Re:

On Nov 11, 2009, at 16:28 , Stephen Love wrote:

> Hmmm... somewhat new to the inner details... all I know is what I
> research on my own... have not had a book-learning course on this...
> but TLS... what is that? AND... I simply want a list of source
> identifiers of incoming requests so that I can check each new one
> for duplicate incoming source... just a HITS vs UNIQUE VISITORS. I
> want NOTHING MORE. I can do add'l tracking based on time, date, etc,
> on my own. Just site usage statistics.

Your question has now been answered several times. I have recommended
mod_usertrack. You may use cookies that you have crafted yourself,
either in some server-side application, or perhaps with mod_rewrite.
If you do not trust cookies, then there is no way to do what you're
trying to do. You cannot uniquely identify the visitor in the way that
you are describing, other than with cookies, or using a third-party
service, like Google Analytics, which relies on cookies.

Yes, cookies are unreliable and hackable, but they're the best we have
to offer. Repeating your question with increasing belligerence will
not change this reality. This is the answer to your question. There
are no other answers, no matter how much you want for there to be.

On the other hand, how much does it *really* matter whether you have
1,000,000 or 1,000,001 visitors? Sometimes, you just have to be
satisfied with a really good estimate.

--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com




------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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See for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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Re:

cookies.
cookies.
COOKIES. For god sake just listen to somebody. The only way to achieve
what you want is to send data to the client and get them to send it
back. That's a cookie. What you're looking for is exactly what Google
Analytics does, which I mentioned early yesterday. Hit vs. Unique
visitors, they even have a graph to show you this exact statistic.

Regarding this little gem: "Then it becomes impossible to know if a
page REALLY exists or if my emails are going where intended, or coming
from where stated... so am I to assume that traffic addressing in
general has FAILED?". No, like I said you cannot be sure of where
traffic is coming from or who is getting it with IP, TCP, or HTTP.
That's exactly right. In general, we can take it for granted that
messages most likely go where intended and most likely come from where
they claim to, but this is definitely open to attack and require
stronger protocols if you absolutely need to be sure of it. When you
search Google, you can feel pretty confident that the results really
come from Google because nobody has much to gain by sneaking in their
own results. When you connect to your bank's website, it's a much
different story and you shouldn't take anything for granted: you need
additional protection outside of these three protocols.

TLS and SSL use cryptographic techniques to authenticate end points in
the communication and to encrypt and sign the data being transmitted
so that you can verify it was not tampered with along the way.

If you want more information on how to use cookies for what you're
doing, I'd be happy to help, and we can probably take the discussion
off-list. If you're not willing to use cookies, you can encode it in
the URL, and I can help you with that as well. But either way, you are
relying on the user to send the information back in tact. If you can't
trust your end users to do that and it's important that you know for
sure, you will need TLS or SSL. I can hep you get started with these,
but there are others on this list with much more knowledge on the
subject than myself.

-Brian

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Stephen Love wrote:
>
> Hmmm... somewhat new to the inner details... all I know is what I researc=
h
> on my own... have not had a book-learning course on this... but TLS... wh=
at
> is that? AND... I simply want a list of source identifiers of incoming
> requests so that I can check each new one for duplicate incoming source..=
..
> just a HITS vs UNIQUE VISITORS. I want NOTHING MORE. I can do add'l track=
ing
> based on time, date, etc, on my own. Just site usage statistics.
>
> See us online at http://www.LOVEnCompany.com.
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Brian Mearns
> To: users@httpd.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [users@httpd]
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:34:24 -0500
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric Covener wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Stephen Love
>> wrote:
>>> So what you are telling me is that there IS no REAL 2-way handshaking
>>> going
>>> on. Then we've lost ALL hope of security.
>>>
>>
>> What's "REAL" in this context? =A0It's not authenticated and doesn't
>> result in some session establishment unless you configure your
>> application to require/manage such a thing?
>>
>> --
>> Eric Covener
>> covener@gmail.com
> [clip]
>
> Yes, why don't you tell us exactly what you want to do, what's your
> end goal? Visitor stats? Geographic locating? Authentication of a
> real-world identity? There's a lot of very bright and very
> knowledgeable people on this list, so if there's any way at all to do
> what you want, then there is a very good chance that somebody here
> will be able to tell you. It just might not be done the way you think
> it should be.
>
> As many of us have said, TCP is an end to end protocol. And in fact,
> it is stateful, so you can send messages back and forth between the
> two end points for as long as the connection is open. There is a
> handshake that goes on between the two end points to setup this
> connection, but this is not any sort of real authentication process
> that confirms the identity of either end. What TCP gets you is pretty
> good confidence that you are talking to the same person you were when
> you started the conversation, but even that confidence is really only
> upheld in the absence of active attacks like IP spoofing, and it
> provides absolutely no confidence that there aren't other people
> listening to the conversation, and potentially even participating in
> the conversation.
>
> If you're looking for security: like making sure no one else is
> listening to the conversation, no one else is modifying the
> conversation data, and or making sure that the person on the other end
> is who they claim to be...then you're going to need a much more
> sophisticated protocol than TCP, IP, or HTTP. SSL/TLS provides all
> these things, with the latest TLS version believed to be quite secure
> with current technologies and techniques. HTTPS layers HTTP over a
> secure SSL or TLS connection, and is available in Apache with mod_ssl.
>
> Your comment that "we've lost ALL hope of security" is quite accurate
> with regards to HTTP, TCP, and IP alone. These protocols were really
> not designed with any attention to security as security wasn't really
> an acknowledged concern at the time they were created. Thus we have
> add on protocols like SSL and TLS.
>
> Anyway, back to my point: tell us what you're actually trying to do
> and there's a good chance someone can help you, as long as you're
> willing to let go of any preconceived notions on how to get the job
> done (that's always the biggest stumbling block to learning something
> new).
>
> Cheers,
> -Brian
>
> --
> Feel free to contact me using PGP Encryption:
> Key Id: 0x3AA70848
> Available from: http://keys.gnupg.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project=
..
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>   "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Pharmacy Assistant School
> Earn a Pharmacy Technician Degree. Get free info and Apply Today!
>



--=20
Feel free to contact me using PGP Encryption:
Key Id: 0x3AA70848
Available from: http://keys.gnupg.net

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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Re:

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Brian Mearns wrote:
> cookies.
> cookies.
> COOKIES. For god sake just listen to somebody. The only way to achieve
> what you want is to send data to the client and get them to send it
> back. That's a cookie. What you're looking for is exactly what Google
> Analytics does, which I mentioned early yesterday. Hit vs. Unique
> visitors, they even have a graph to show you this exact statistic.
>
> Regarding this little gem: "Then it becomes impossible to know if a
> page REALLY exists or if my emails are going where intended, or coming
> from where stated... so am I to assume that traffic addressing in
> general has FAILED?". No, like I said you cannot be sure of where
> traffic is coming from or who is getting it with IP, TCP, or HTTP.
> That's exactly right. In general, we can take it for granted that
> messages most likely go where intended and most likely come from where
> they claim to, but this is definitely open to attack and require
> stronger protocols if you absolutely need to be sure of it. When you
> search Google, you can feel pretty confident that the results really
> come from Google because nobody has much to gain by sneaking in their
> own results. When you connect to your bank's website, it's a much
> different story and you shouldn't take anything for granted: you need
> additional protection outside of these three protocols.
>
> TLS and SSL use cryptographic techniques to authenticate end points in
> the communication and to encrypt and sign the data being transmitted
> so that you can verify it was not tampered with along the way.
>
> If you want more information on how to use cookies for what you're
> doing, I'd be happy to help, and we can probably take the discussion
> off-list. If you're not willing to use cookies, you can encode it in
> the URL, and I can help you with that as well. But either way, you are
> relying on the user to send the information back in tact. If you can't
> trust your end users to do that and it's important that you know for
> sure, you will need TLS or SSL. I can hep you get started with these,
> but there are others on this list with much more knowledge on the
> subject than myself.
>
> -Brian
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Stephen Love wrot=
e:
>>
>> Hmmm... somewhat new to the inner details... all I know is what I resear=
ch
>> on my own... have not had a book-learning course on this... but TLS... w=
hat
>> is that? AND... I simply want a list of source identifiers of incoming
>> requests so that I can check each new one for duplicate incoming source.=
...
>> just a HITS vs UNIQUE VISITORS. I want NOTHING MORE. I can do add'l trac=
king
>> based on time, date, etc, on my own. Just site usage statistics.
>>
>> See us online at http://www.LOVEnCompany.com.
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Brian Mearns
>> To: users@httpd.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [users@httpd]
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:34:24 -0500
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Eric Covener wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Stephen Love
>>> wrote:
>>>> So what you are telling me is that there IS no REAL 2-way handshaking
>>>> going
>>>> on. Then we've lost ALL hope of security.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What's "REAL" in this context?  It's not authenticated and doesn't
>>> result in some session establishment unless you configure your
>>> application to require/manage such a thing?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eric Covener
>>> covener@gmail.com
>> [clip]
>>
>> Yes, why don't you tell us exactly what you want to do, what's your
>> end goal? Visitor stats? Geographic locating? Authentication of a
>> real-world identity? There's a lot of very bright and very
>> knowledgeable people on this list, so if there's any way at all to do
>> what you want, then there is a very good chance that somebody here
>> will be able to tell you. It just might not be done the way you think
>> it should be.
>>
>> As many of us have said, TCP is an end to end protocol. And in fact,
>> it is stateful, so you can send messages back and forth between the
>> two end points for as long as the connection is open. There is a
>> handshake that goes on between the two end points to setup this
>> connection, but this is not any sort of real authentication process
>> that confirms the identity of either end. What TCP gets you is pretty
>> good confidence that you are talking to the same person you were when
>> you started the conversation, but even that confidence is really only
>> upheld in the absence of active attacks like IP spoofing, and it
>> provides absolutely no confidence that there aren't other people
>> listening to the conversation, and potentially even participating in
>> the conversation.
>>
>> If you're looking for security: like making sure no one else is
>> listening to the conversation, no one else is modifying the
>> conversation data, and or making sure that the person on the other end
>> is who they claim to be...then you're going to need a much more
>> sophisticated protocol than TCP, IP, or HTTP. SSL/TLS provides all
>> these things, with the latest TLS version believed to be quite secure
>> with current technologies and techniques. HTTPS layers HTTP over a
>> secure SSL or TLS connection, and is available in Apache with mod_ssl.
>>
>> Your comment that "we've lost ALL hope of security" is quite accurate
>> with regards to HTTP, TCP, and IP alone. These protocols were really
>> not designed with any attention to security as security wasn't really
>> an acknowledged concern at the time they were created. Thus we have
>> add on protocols like SSL and TLS.
>>
>> Anyway, back to my point: tell us what you're actually trying to do
>> and there's a good chance someone can help you, as long as you're
>> willing to let go of any preconceived notions on how to get the job
>> done (that's always the biggest stumbling block to learning something
>> new).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Brian
>>
>> --
>> Feel free to contact me using PGP Encryption:
>> Key Id: 0x3AA70848
>> Available from: http://keys.gnupg.net
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
>> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Projec=
t.
>> See for more info.
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>>   "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@http=
d.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Pharmacy Assistant School
>> Earn a Pharmacy Technician Degree. Get free info and Apply Today!
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Feel free to contact me using PGP Encryption:
> Key Id: 0x3AA70848
> Available from: http://keys.gnupg.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project=
..
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>   "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.or=
g
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>

Stephen Love I followed the advice on your email signature and decided
to see you online at http://www.LOVEnCompany.com, I'm pretty sure
this is what you're looking for:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/geocities/addons/counter/co unter-01.html

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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Re:

Jonathan Zuckerman wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Brian Mearns wrote:
>> cookies.
>> cookies.
>> COOKIES. For god sake just listen to somebody.
....

I believe that the OP does.
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be to the people on this list.

>
> Stephen Love I followed the advice on your email signature and decided
> to see you online at http://www.LOVEnCompany.com,
....


------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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See for more info.
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Re:

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Stephen Love wrote:
> > Hmmm... somewhat new to the inner details... all I know is what I research
> > on my own... have not had a book-learning course on this... but TLS... what
> > is that? AND... I simply want a list of source identifiers of incoming
> > requests so that I can check each new one for duplicate incoming source...
> > just a HITS vs UNIQUE VISITORS. I want NOTHING MORE. I can do add'l tracking
> > based on time, date, etc, on my own. Just site usage statistics.

On 11.11.09 16:56, Brian Mearns wrote:
> cookies.
> cookies.
> COOKIES. For god sake just listen to somebody. The only way to achieve
> what you want is to send data to the client and get them to send it
> back. That's a cookie. What you're looking for is exactly what Google
> Analytics does, which I mentioned early yesterday. Hit vs. Unique
> visitors, they even have a graph to show you this exact statistic.

And you (Stephen) should be aware that there are people who don't like
cookies so they will not see them and you will not have precise numbers
there. And you should also be aware that if you tell people that they must
allow cookied, they may ignore your page...

--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
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