Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

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HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

I am sick to death of this P.O.S. HP pavillion DV8310. For a month I
have been trying to deal with the trial-ware it comes with and the 135
trusted modules grabbing internet access....WTF does my keyboard driver
need internet access for?
I notice the trial version of Norton I-net suite disallows me to remove
the trusted pre-installed programs from HP! Essentials like MS-Explorer
and System...can be removed but not Scvhost called from elsewhere. It
appears to me that Norton has been engaged in hiding my user data export
to HP and points unknown.

SO I tried:
MSconfig and removing all the startup files. RESULT- can't play a DVD
but still get phonehomes.
Services.msc and removed as many sneaky non-esential services as i could
by trial and error. Even then there appear to be LSPs acting at the
kernal level that don;t even trigger Spybot teatimer that the registry
has been altered to reload the 'original confiruration' and allow
datamining.....although it is more restricted in what can call home to
HP modules.
REmoving all registry entries ans software that are not critical for
usability but restrict phonehome...RESULTS..dismal! I am in over my head.
I purchased ZA 2007 int-suite and it is better but Norton is very very
sticky and conflicts at times by leaving hidden modules that the HP
config ini restores on me.

Did I say I am in over my head????? I am learning a lot about the
efforst HP and MS are going to to get my data for free and
sureptitiously but not making much headway in the blocking and retaining
usability fight. For EG: if I deny access to the "quicklaunch" features
i may be saving my privacy but can't play a rented DVD and listen to it.

Win Media player10 is blocked from working if Sonic is active.

It started two years ago with a 7150 printer driver that was integrated
with phonehome 'no opt out' code. Tech supt finally conceded it was so
entrained it would not work without the phonehome module and offred my
money back saying "future printers would not have drivers integrated
with connectivity modules.....two years later and is far worse. Great
efforts have been made to make it harder to detect and remove.

There is a hidden HP directory with ini files that on inspection read
like " start c:\HP\bin\cloaker.exe c:customize PC ALL yadyada .bat and
so on.
I assume "cloaker.exe means "don;t expose the actions" no?

Given that HP spys on its own directors have I a hope in making a
machine i can connect to the internet and not broadcast the state of
every piece of software and every media file I ever connected remotely to?

Most firewalls and spyware utilities assume everything already loaded is
legit....and if teatimer is foiled this is happening at at lower level
than I can deal with directly right?

Miffed!

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Leythos wrote:
> In article , warf@eastlink.com says...
>
>>Did I say I am in over my head?????
>
>
> Why don't you just wipe the machine, get the XP disk and install from
> scratch, load only the drivers you need, then only load applications you
> approve of?
>
> The first thing I do with any new computer is wipe it and install from
> scratch - and I'm not talking about the vendors recovery CD that
> reinstalls everything.
>
Therin lieth the problem....if I had the $350 XPdisk it would only be
half of the problem [aside from the fact Vist will be out next
month].....the drivers 'contain' the phonehome bug. I am just learning
about this decades tricks so when I read about LSPs and modules called
from other modules...beyond even scvhost generic... I wonder how the
hell I can defeat this HP practice when i can't get user functions
unless I use the HP trojan drivers?
I have a limited box and can't access the multimedia features if I block
access to any of these drivers...I found.
A V-OS was suggested but that is an order of complexity beyond my
skills....I bet.
still miffed

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Leythos wrote:

snip....
>>>Why don't you just wipe the machine, get the XP disk and install from
.....snip
>
> Three things - Vista is not an option, don't even consider it for at
> least 6 months after it comes out. Second, drivers don't phone home, but
> the crap they bundle with them does, so, as I said, install what you
> want. Third, XP is not $350, it's included with your computer and at the
> worst, you might have to pay a small fee for a CD with it in case you
> didn't make one when you got the machine.

You are right, new releases are still beta releases...I still have
licensed CDs for W95, 95light, 98, 98SE [even ME] and 2000 with SP4...I
would like to use 2000 but I am told that is a step back in the security
aspect??? a full install XP CD costs $359 in Canada, an upgrade is
$250 and although I have three vintages of laptop with XP licenses I
can't seem to get a boot CD...and of course the REStore CDs are device
specific.
Am I able [allowed] to get an XP bootCD via one of the earlier laptop
licenses?

RE "drivers don;t phone home"..perhaps not in the strictest sense, but
my experience to date indicate that they are so closely tied to those
ancillary functions that many of them don't work without them. For EG:
HP7150 printer driver, HP Quicklaunch audio and a slew of others as
verified by HP tech support... To be precise, it may be due to LSP
functions, other modules waiting for a response etc. The end result is
"they cease to perform unless given internet access.
Even the "make Restore DVD" function hangs at 33% unless connected to
the internet at some point. HP has a notye saying "if the 3rd and final
DVD appears to hang at 33% wait up to 5 minutes and it will continue".
Three failed 3rd DVDs proved that it is waiting for an internet
connection because it would not complete even after half a day until I
plugged in the ethernet cable and restored the connection. That tidbit
is not stated in the HP instructions.

snip..
> You could download the drivers from the vendors, such as the mouse,
> video, nic, etc... but you would have to figure out what vendor made
> what device in the system.
snip...
>
> Answer me this - why do you care if the drivers phone home? It's not
> like you've got a secure network anyway, not like you're designing
> stealth armour on that HP, etc.... Let them phone home and then work to
> replace them.

The answer to that is the same answer as "why didn't you let them use
your car without your permission, or Why do you care if someone is
eavesdropping on your phone or has a duplicate mailbox key or tracks you
purchase habits surreptitiously".
Answer: If I were asked up front "what software are you using and for
what purposes?", Do you have licenses for same?", what music and movies
do you own-rent-purchase-download..?", "what are the contents of your
damned clipboard?", what websites have you typed in, been directed to,
saved in favorites...ad infinitum?" I would have no problem answering
those I felt relevant and opting out of those I feel I should be
remunerated for since data is money. But it done with guileful and
purposeful intent and is far beyond the slippery slope.
Finally, with all the "Trusted" data and port opening how in the world
can a person spot a serious illegal subtrifuge or even a spambot?
The quickest way to mask the serious subversion is to deluge one with
low risk activities.

I to am at the point of saying, WTF, I have no real secrets but it bugs
me to know I am being manipulated in this way. I also would not feel
confident in doing online banking or purchasing. Even something as
simple as 'I subscribe to the World wildlife fund, or the NRA or...whatever.

I pay for the internet connection, I like to imagine I am still the
owner of my data and I dislike the duplicity of companies like HP and it
would appear MS.
>

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

warf (warf@eastlink.com) writes:
> I am sick to death of this P.O.S. HP pavillion DV8310. For a month I
> have been trying to deal with the trial-ware it comes with and the 135
> trusted modules grabbing internet access....WTF does my keyboard driver
> need internet access for?
(snipped elaboration of similar problems)

Are all H.P. computers set up like this?? Glad I have never bought one!

.... Martin

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Martin Potter wrote:
> warf (warf@eastlink.com) writes:
>
>>I am sick to death of this P.O.S. HP pavillion DV8310. For a month I
>>have been trying to deal with the trial-ware it comes with and the 135
>>trusted modules grabbing internet access....WTF does my keyboard driver
>>need internet access for?
>
> (snipped elaboration of similar problems)
>
> Are all H.P. computers set up like this?? Glad I have never bought one!
>
> ... Martin

I imagine the concept of datamining by HP is prevalent...I know for a
fact that drivers with my 3yr old 7150 photoprinter was the first such
device I was inflicted with[ so tightly integrated as to be inoperable
if denied], the software shipped with my HP R-series camera_S_ is
datmine sticky, and we know the bugging of HP CEOs is considered
normal....I just wonder how many others are discovering that reduced
hardware prices can be offset with surreptitious datamining for
undisclosed but logically overt ends?

I doubt I can 'win' over this annoying trend...Orwell was an optimist in
reality; but that is another topic.

Some have no doubt wondered why this matters....
IT is definitely NOT about hiding porn or doing unethical things like
downloading unlicensed software [although....] it is not each discrete
datapacket that is [should be] of concern, it is the correlation and
amassing of globally spanning databases that is concern. Canada is
supposed to one of the most liberal and protective of individuality BUT
even Revenue Canada goes to Equifax for 'additional' information on tax
files. George has it as well.
As long as only 1 unique identifier is sent in the mined data it is
easily linked to the total file....Did you register your Product? that
means the UUid or serial number or even a MAC address can be used to
link you to the database.

I am learning a lot about the complexities of internet traffic and I
hope you Network Admins are a lot better able to secure your data than I
ever hope to be.

Good night and good luck.
Warf....miffed

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

>
> Answer me this - why do you care if the drivers phone home? It's not
> like you've got a secure network anyway, not like you're designing
> stealth armour on that HP, etc.... Let them phone home and then work to
> replace them.
>

Yeah if you're not a criminal why are you trying to hide? Download an
netinstall disk from debian.org and install it.

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

OpCguy wrote:

>>Answer me this - why do you care if the drivers phone home? It's not
>>like you've got a secure network anyway, not like you're designing
>>stealth armour on that HP, etc.... Let them phone home and then work to
>>replace them.
>>
>
>
> Yeah if you're not a criminal why are you trying to hide? Download an
> netinstall disk from debian.org and install it.
>

Do I really need to enlighten you are you just testing your wings?

Here are but a few reasons, first a few analogies to set the tone:
Why do you lock your house if you have nothing to hide?
Why do you care if the postman reads your mail?
Why do you care if I have your tax, banking, medical history, employment
history, genetic profile, familial history, political bent, magazine
subscription history, insurance profile, educational records, criminal
records...hell why not just let have access to your thoughts when the
technology matures.
Do I really have to post 'my' reasons for not wanting to watch a steady
stream of data leaving my computer with unknown destinations and with
purposeful obfuscation?
This may be the best lesson you ever passed over...
O BTW, Ask the CEOs of the company that made my dataminer how they feel
about bathroom conversations and...
Understand now? I could expound mightily if necessary?
Warf.

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

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Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:

> warf wrote:
>
>
>>Why do you lock your house if you have nothing to hide?
>
>
> To comply with the demands of my assurance to receive protection against
> break-in. Now, that bad comparison was easy to debunk.
>
>
>>Why do you care if the postman reads your mail?
>
>
> He doesn't. However, he may read postcards and I must respect that
> possibility. Now, as we are at bad comparison, a mail covert would be the
> analogon to encryption.
>
>
>>Why do you care if I have your tax, banking, medical history, employment
>>history, genetic profile, familial history, political bent, magazine
>>subscription history, insurance profile, educational records, criminal
>>records...hell why not just let have access to your thoughts when the
>>technology matures.
>
>
> Actually that's a good idea. With various security protocols and
> encryption, one can create very good privacy management systems that
> provide very limited and well-defined views on the dataset.
>
>
>>Do I really have to post 'my' reasons for not wanting to watch a steady
>>stream of data leaving my computer with unknown destinations and with
>>purposeful obfuscation?
>
>
> No. But then, you should be consequent to not make such a thing possible in
> first place.

Hence: my initial post: How do I stop my HP laptop from datamining me?

What can I take home from this juncture of meandering posings [not
'posTings]. I do appreciate the real help though, and the rest is still
entertaining and even thought provoking.

I think even 'experts' are hard pressed to know when subtrifuge is
happening...because by definition if they were aware of it it would be
overt...so you wait until somebody brags of the exploit OR you find out
as a consequence of some malicious use of your data.
This applies to physical scamming as well...it is all predicated on the
myth that one can ascertain when one is being scammed and can take steps
to alleviate it----the amygdala is the problem, it can allow us to feel
secure if the sensory input is parsed in a manner leading to trust, or
devoid of suspicion.

So, for anybody that has not had the misfortune of saying " she would
never cheat on me" at the precise moment she was..or___________ [your story]
Is my point clear? I am seeking the knowledge so many of you purport to
have, but i gather Hubris is but a packet away.

Now for some pragmatic thought....I would like to think 'WE' could
prevent datamining by encrypting our data,,,,but how can we be sure we
are not fooled at the kernel level?

I know for a fact many chemical 'discoveries' were data artifacts that
the operator could not imagine were not as displayed on the CRT. The
more complex the system the easier it is to obfuscate the nefarious.
The larger the city the easier to hide...etc.

What now....give up, delude myself like 'perhaps' some of you are?

It ain;t looking promising and even though "predictions are hard,
especially when they are about the future" {Y.Berra} I predict you will
all be the victim of some form of malicious act on your system simply by
the shear weight of ingenuity if for no other reason.

Someone else, 'Cobalt' something or other, piqued my interest in a
backhanded way when he said the secure WWW could never be attained
because it would require [i paraphrase] vendor locked hardware denied
the ability for user mods....Isn't that much like we already have for
other forms of communication or data delivery? I know the biggest bitch
then was "I can't make my CD player connect to my dial phone or toilet".
But then nobody was really cogent of the problems endless user
modifiable compatibility would bring. " carefully what you wish for.
QED.
WARf

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

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Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:

> warf wrote:
>
>>...
>
> By not installation stuff with admin rights. And by using an operating
> system and drivers you trust.

Where's the logic in that line of thought? Take this for instance:

I download the driver for a peripheral from the manufacturer's web site.
I've checked, and yes, I AM downloading from their web site. The software
insists on phoning home before it will work. The manufacturer did not and
does not state that their software *must* phone home before it will work,
in any form or anywhere, including the EULA. By your logic, the
manufacturer I obtained the software from is not trustworthy. How, then do
I find a 'trustworthy' software provider for that peripheral driver - or
any software for that matter?

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

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Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
> Mark Trimble wrote:
>
>
>>Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
>>
>>
>>>warf wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>...
>>>
>>>By not installation stuff with admin rights. And by using an operating
>>>system and drivers you trust.
>>
>>Where's the logic in that line of thought? Take this for instance:
>>
>>I download the driver for a peripheral from the manufacturer's web site.
>>I've checked, and yes, I AM downloading from their web site. The software
>>insists on phoning home before it will work. The manufacturer did not and
>>does not state that their software *must* phone home before it will work,
>>in any form or anywhere, including the EULA. By your logic, the
>>manufacturer I obtained the software from is not trustworthy. How, then do
>>I find a 'trustworthy' software provider for that peripheral driver - or
>>any software for that matter?
>
>
> Indeed, if such an example actually existed in reality, one should really
> resort so open source operating system with open source drivers. Luckily,
> such an example isn't known up today.
>
> BTW, what software? A driver usually only consists of the driver, some
> libraries, an INF installer and maybe a control panel. No reasonable person
> uses setup.exe to install all the bundled software.

Sebasitan, the whole point of this thread _IS_ the drivers HP supplies
for many oth their devices are 'sticky' and in fact do just what Mark
said..they refuse to function if denied access to the internet AND they
cannot easily be installed sans phonehome routine. EVEN if one bypasses
the setup.exe and uses [for eg] the "windows install printer" function
thru the control panel and points the location to the inf file on the
CD...the inf file calls the whole damned business and it loads
everything. I tried stopping the HP background install when the XP
install window said it as finished...the inf file was in windows32 dir
but the printer was offline and could not be brought online. The Dlls
for that were missing or inactivated.
AND if that is not convincing, HP tier2 tech support was assisting me in
the final attempts [read my earliest posts on this].
to recap; i was told the driver was "integrated" with the 'share to web'
and 'customer enhancement' [sic] features and could not be enabled
without these 'features'
I appreciate all you assistance thus far BUT, that as the entire point
on this rant..."IT IS STICKY...STICKY STICKY!"
How could you speculate on this being a hypothetical if you are not an
HP/XP user and attempted to ...after first discovering it...remove that
trojan and still enable functionality?

FTR...if anybody has been lurking and has become aware of this same
phenomena please speak up and at least let me know I am not the only
person to have come up against it AND cared enough to attempt to gain a
measure of control over it!
Sheesh....I thought it was straight forward...this ain't like arguing
legal EULA axioms thru the eyes of non-lawyers ...it is an
actuality...provable...repeatable...verifiable...
But I do prattle on when frustrated....
Maybe this is the wrong forum??? XP is not it...HP is definitely not it.
Someone mused earlier " why did you get another HP product when you had
that trouble earlier?" The tech supt guy admitted it as a poor idea to
enmesh those features and the next models would not be so
co-dependent...he likely doesnt work there anymore. HP was so morally
bankrupt at the CEO level i can't imagine for a moment a mere customer
would merit privacy considerations.
And to all the minute men out there...No, I have nothing to hide....YET,
but that is entirely dependent on the social climate, hell even
suggesting the earth orbited the sun was a death sentence once[for eg].
I recall women in the US weren't allowed to vote until 1926[?] and
suggesting the war in Vietnam was immoral was a conviction of
commie...[now it is Iraq that is sacred].
The point is, HP makes phoning home a no-choice-enhancement.
Merry xmas fellas.
Warf.

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

warf wrote:
[much deleted]

["HP" "drivers" "phoning home"]

> FTR...if anybody has been lurking and has become aware of this same
> phenomena please speak up and at least let me know I am not the only
> person to have come up against it AND cared enough to attempt to gain a
> measure of control over it!

I have not encountered something like this on my HP (XP) systems.

[deleted]

> Maybe this is the wrong forum??? XP is not it...HP is definitely not it.

You could try the comp.sys.hp.* newsgroups, BUT be specific (i.e.
*which* *exact* (i.e. the description(s), the version(s) and the file
name(s)) "driver"(s)), do not ramble so much, use some white space,
etc..

> HP was so morally bankrupt at the CEO level ...

This is (at least) the second time you write something like this. Next
time you might want to get your facts straight. By posting non-sense
like that, people are even less likely to take your complaint seriously.

[deleted]

FWIW, I don't believe that any "driver", which is not part of (or
associated with) some *networking* function, *requires* a phone-home in
order to work. If that was the case, one couldn't have non-networked
systems, systems on private networks, etc.. So until you provide details
and proof, this audience will most likely treat your complaint as urban
rumor.

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

This may have been mentioned in the above troll blather, but why not
just spend $85 USD on an OEM version of Windows? That way it will not
have any of that spyware/malware preinstalled. In the future I
recommend searching for "how to return your windows license when
purchasing a new computer" before you buy, it'll get you back 50 bucks
or so according to slashdot. Anyway, OEM versions can be purchased on
newegg.com, tigerdirect.com, pricewatch. com, etc.

On Dec 18 2006, 10:14 am, Frank Slootweg
wrote:
> warf wrote:[much deleted]
>
> ["HP" "drivers" "phoning home"]
>
> > FTR...if anybody has been lurking and has become aware of this same
> > phenomena please speak up and at least let me know I am not the only
> > person to have come up against it AND cared enough to attempt to gain a
> > measure of control over it! I have not encountered something like this on my HP (XP) systems.
>
> [deleted]
>
> > Maybe this is the wrong forum??? XP is not it...HP is definitely not it. You could try the comp.sys.hp.* newsgroups, BUT be specific (i.e.
> *which* *exact* (i.e. the description(s), the version(s) and the file
> name(s)) "driver"(s)), do not ramble so much, use some white space,
> etc..
>
> > HP was so morally bankrupt at the CEO level ... This is (at least) the second time you write something like this. Next
> time you might want to get your facts straight. By posting non-sense
> like that, people are even less likely to take your complaint seriously.
>
> [deleted]
>
> FWIW, I don't believe that any "driver", which is not part of (or
> associated with) some *networking* function, *requires* a phone-home in
> order to work. If that was the case, one couldn't have non-networked
> systems, systems on private networks, etc.. So until you provide details
> and proof, this audience will most likely treat your complaint as urban
> rumor.

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

requeth@gmail.com wrote:
> This may have been mentioned in the above troll blather, but why not
> just spend $85 USD on an OEM version of Windows? That way it will not
> have any of that spyware/malware preinstalled. In the future I
> recommend searching for "how to return your windows license when
> purchasing a new computer" before you buy, it'll get you back 50 bucks
> or so according to slashdot. Anyway, OEM versions can be purchased on
> newegg.com, tigerdirect.com, pricewatch. com, etc.

Nah! Won't work! If he does that he will probably need some "drivers"
for some proprietary Evil Empire stuff and he probably can only get
those from those Evil Empires! So he's stuck between a rock and a hard
place.

OTOH, it *could* be that it was all hot air and the reason why he
hasn't responded in nearly four weeks since this Slootweg dude had the
audacity of asking for some *facts* for a chance. The bloody *nerve* of
that guy!.

> On Dec 18 2006, 10:14 am, Frank Slootweg
> wrote:
> > warf wrote:[much deleted]
> >
> > ["HP" "drivers" "phoning home"]
> >
> > > FTR...if anybody has been lurking and has become aware of this same
> > > phenomena please speak up and at least let me know I am not the only
> > > person to have come up against it AND cared enough to attempt to gain a
> > > measure of control over it!
> >
> > I have not encountered something like this on my HP (XP) systems.
> >
> > [deleted]
> >
> > > Maybe this is the wrong forum??? XP is not it...HP is definitely not it.
> >
> > You could try the comp.sys.hp.* newsgroups, BUT be specific (i.e.
> > *which* *exact* (i.e. the description(s), the version(s) and the file
> > name(s)) "driver"(s)), do not ramble so much, use some white space,
> > etc..
> >
> > > HP was so morally bankrupt at the CEO level ...
> >
> > This is (at least) the second time you write something like this. Next
> > time you might want to get your facts straight. By posting non-sense
> > like that, people are even less likely to take your complaint seriously.
> >
> > [deleted]
> >
> > FWIW, I don't believe that any "driver", which is not part of (or
> > associated with) some *networking* function, *requires* a phone-home in
> > order to work. If that was the case, one couldn't have non-networked
> > systems, systems on private networks, etc.. So until you provide details
> > and proof, this audience will most likely treat your complaint as urban
> > rumor.

Re: HP pavilion preloaded spyware is sticky...

I've had decent luck with HPs...is it a relatively new system? If so,
you might try calling up HP, and tell them you don't have any intention
of using Windows on the machine (mention ubuntu, it's an awesome *NIX
distro that's got some mainstream mentions lately :P), they should be
able to get you a refund for the Windows XP install, since you won't
need or USE it...of course they will deactivate your microsoft
serial/key thing...but from there, go buy your OWN XP Professional from
ebay/amazon/etc, and just format the drive, essentially removing all of
their crapware.

I did this, and have had good luck so far ;)
Anyways...http://community.linux.com/community/07/01/03/2272 37.shtml?tid=12
has the article outlined...though the story mentioned was involving
DELL, and not HP....but they might still accept it ;)

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> requeth@gmail.com wrote:
> > This may have been mentioned in the above troll blather, but why not
> > just spend $85 USD on an OEM version of Windows? That way it will not
> > have any of that spyware/malware preinstalled. In the future I
> > recommend searching for "how to return your windows license when
> > purchasing a new computer" before you buy, it'll get you back 50 bucks
> > or so according to slashdot. Anyway, OEM versions can be purchased on
> > newegg.com, tigerdirect.com, pricewatch. com, etc.
>
> Nah! Won't work! If he does that he will probably need some "drivers"
> for some proprietary Evil Empire stuff and he probably can only get
> those from those Evil Empires! So he's stuck between a rock and a hard
> place.
>
> OTOH, it *could* be that it was all hot air and the reason why he
> hasn't responded in nearly four weeks since this Slootweg dude had the
> audacity of asking for some *facts* for a chance. The bloody *nerve* of
> that guy!.
>
> > On Dec 18 2006, 10:14 am, Frank Slootweg
> > wrote:
> > > warf wrote:[much deleted]
> > >
> > > ["HP" "drivers" "phoning home"]
> > >
> > > > FTR...if anybody has been lurking and has become aware of this same
> > > > phenomena please speak up and at least let me know I am not the only
> > > > person to have come up against it AND cared enough to attempt to gain a
> > > > measure of control over it!
> > >
> > > I have not encountered something like this on my HP (XP) systems.
> > >
> > > [deleted]
> > >
> > > > Maybe this is the wrong forum??? XP is not it...HP is definitely not it.
> > >
> > > You could try the comp.sys.hp.* newsgroups, BUT be specific (i.e.
> > > *which* *exact* (i.e. the description(s), the version(s) and the file
> > > name(s)) "driver"(s)), do not ramble so much, use some white space,
> > > etc..
> > >
> > > > HP was so morally bankrupt at the CEO level ...
> > >
> > > This is (at least) the second time you write something like this. Next
> > > time you might want to get your facts straight. By posting non-sense
> > > like that, people are even less likely to take your complaint seriously.
> > >
> > > [deleted]
> > >
> > > FWIW, I don't believe that any "driver", which is not part of (or
> > > associated with) some *networking* function, *requires* a phone-home in
> > > order to work. If that was the case, one couldn't have non-networked
> > > systems, systems on private networks, etc.. So until you provide details
> > > and proof, this audience will most likely treat your complaint as urban
> > > rumor.