Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.12.2006 15:44:46 von vjp2.at

You folks mean to tell me there's no program out there that would take a
file of simple text and blatherise it to the level of another "reference"
file? Or Adjust the "Fog Index" of a text file up or down from its input
level. I'm totally serious. I'm tired of fighting. I just want to "get
along".

I have one idea: you score each verb and noun on, say, five, different
scales, then you pile on similarly ranked adverbs and adjectives until you
meet the volume requirement. Or you remove accordingly. In MS-Word type
environments, you score less necessary modifiers, say , with orange-colored
undersquiggles, the less necessary, the more undersquiggles.

Message-ID:

I'm sure I've seen programs that generate blather but now I can't find
one. I'm stuck in a wierd situation that comes up often enough: Some
third-worlders insist you write pretentious casuistry when a few simple words
are enough. It is sad in these day of "Fog Index" that we have people who are
commitedly ideological and even theologically dogmatic about making prose
incomprehensibly obfuscated and complicated. I want it in perl so it can be
extremely portable.

However, I want something I can control. For example, when it sees the
word "customer" or "strategy" it should randomly chose one of three flowing
phrases. I can write a simple one-to-one in sed, but I really hope some
ingenious soul has already compiled a blatherisation table that I only need
to tweak. The issue is the text should require no more than, say, ten
percent editing to make it seem like it came from a genuinely glib
casuistrous bullshit artist.

I wouldn't mind if the program is ingenious enough to go both ways, or
even to be adjustable (ie, "please set the fog index"). I am confronted with
enough blathermaniacs and antiblathermaniacs to make my life way too
complicated. By the time I get used to one lunatic, I have to instead conform
to the other.

Message-ID:

I think you could broadly generalise the most common writing styles are:

1. Cryptic misappropriated connotation (demanded by "scholars")
2. Telegraphic commercial (Taught by "Communications" programs)
3. Latinate bureaucratic (demanded by 3rd world bureaucrats)
4. Literary Synonymania (demanded by "English" professors/teachers)

And these variances seem to be used to discriminate and segregate
dogmatically and unfairly. "Can't we just all get along?"

Message-ID:

I went hunting on google for "chatterbot perl knowledge base". I "knew"
Hugh Kenner back on BiX ca 1988. Foggy is a riot, but not what I needed,
though I think sometime it may prove valuable when frustration with fools
triggers my evil streak. I need foggy with a twist - a knowledge base I can
tweak like foggy, but it should take a simple paragraph and turn it into a
long blatherous paper that I can then spend a few minutes editing and it will
say pretty much the same thing as my simple paragraph. For example I write
"The customer is a petunia" and it writes "Our customers are very important
to us. One of our multifarous customers has proven to be a
petunia. Wheretofore and heretofore, this important, vaulable and significant
datum will be assessed strategically and applied to our models wherefrom we
shall therefore optimise our tactics, strategy and operations so that we
fully capture the economic benefits derivable from this customer." One form
would work with a knowledge base where it is triggered by words like customer
and petunia into random but reasonably meaningful ramblings. The other would
be even better if it took a file with writing similar to the target and
transformed the source using the target as a model (for style and size). I
would really wish this was in perl so I could use it on the fly anywhere!

nyc.transit Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:19:28 +0000 (UTC)

You remind me of how my folks got mistreated. They spoke with a heavy
accent but at the university level. A lot of academics would love to
converse endlessly with their precise and inquiring minds. Some "customer
service" types would just hang up the phone when they heard the accent. One
of my English teachers couldn't get over it how my folks had the nerve to
correct her spelling.

I was born here and once I had a boss say that the reason I disgreed on
policy issues was I needed to improve my writing since I was Greek and sent
me to a writing class (she was Cuban and spoke with an accent, but I don't
have an accent). Once someone asked me "You speak English so well, when did
you come here" I looked at my watch and said "Oh, about 120 yrs ago."
(Technically true, though my stowaway ancestors got sent back a month later)
I once went to speak to a dean about something and he mentioned the essence
of the conversation to a reporter and I saw in print that he described me as
a foreign student (he, too, had an accent and was foreign born). When a
previous president of my alma mater was introduced to alums, he saw my name
badge and said "Ohhhh, Greek" shaking his head knowingly as I was seriously
thinking of swatting him on the head like a fly.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.12.2006 15:50:46 von vjp2.at

BTW, the beginning of third book of Aristotle's Rhetoric explains
quite well why one should NOT use blather. It says exactly what my
"corporate writing" instructor said while trying to disabuse me of bad
habits had forced on my at the University.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.12.2006 15:50:46 von vjp2.at

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.12.2006 16:50:38 von Harlan Messinger

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> You folks mean to tell me there's no program out there that would take a
> file of simple text and blatherise it to the level of another "reference"
> file?

"You folks mean?" Did someone here (sci.lang) say that?

> Or Adjust the "Fog Index" of a text file up or down from its input
> level. I'm totally serious. I'm tired of fighting. I just want to "get
> along".

Fighting what?

> I have one idea: you score each verb and noun on, say, five, different
> scales, then you pile on similarly ranked adverbs and adjectives until you
> meet the volume requirement. Or you remove accordingly. In MS-Word type
> environments, you score less necessary modifiers, say , with orange-colored
> undersquiggles, the less necessary, the more undersquiggles.

If it's so simple, go ahead and make it happen.

(Are you under the impression that software exists that has that degree
of facility with human language?)

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 26.12.2006 16:50:38 von Harlan Messinger

Meta-issue - don"t use valid domains that aren"t yours

am 26.12.2006 20:11:04 von merlyn

>>>>> "vjp2" == vjp2 at writes:
[blather]

When you're making up spam-proofed addresses, be careful that you
either have an invalid syntax (hard to do!) or use .invalid or example.com.

Because otherwise, unlesss you actually know this guy:

Registrant:
Bob Gustwick Assoc.
POB 301660
Austin, TX 78703
US

Domain Name: DOT.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Gustwick, Bob rt_tech@REALTIME.NET
Real/Time Communications
POB 301660
Austin, TX 78703
US
+1 512 451 0046 fax: +1 512 459 3858

then you've polluted *his* legal namespace with your made-up name.

Don't do that.

Remember the rule of domain names... if it's legal, it's taken.
(Even com.com is taken... it belongs to CNet, so they can say news.com.com.)

Just another guy who has been around Usenet since 1981 (yeah, old-timer),
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095

Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Meta-issue - don"t use valid domains that aren"t yours

am 26.12.2006 20:11:04 von merlyn

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 01:20:17 von grammatim

Harlan Messinger wrote:
> vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> > You folks mean to tell me there's no program out there that would take a
> > file of simple text and blatherise it to the level of another "reference"
> > file?
>
> "You folks mean?" Did someone here (sci.lang) say that?
>
> > Or Adjust the "Fog Index" of a text file up or down from its input
> > level. I'm totally serious. I'm tired of fighting. I just want to "get
> > along".
>
> Fighting what?
>
> > I have one idea: you score each verb and noun on, say, five, different
> > scales, then you pile on similarly ranked adverbs and adjectives until you
> > meet the volume requirement. Or you remove accordingly. In MS-Word type
> > environments, you score less necessary modifiers, say , with orange-colored
> > undersquiggles, the less necessary, the more undersquiggles.
>
> If it's so simple, go ahead and make it happen.
>
> (Are you under the impression that software exists that has that degree
> of facility with human language?)

He's a rwnc who frequently posts off-topic political assertions at
nyc.transit, but does sometimes discuss NY transit..

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 01:20:17 von grammatim

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 08:53:37 von vjp2.at

I have seen programs which can be called "proof of concept". I'm not as
familiar with natural language processing, though I have seen many
unfulfilled promises about it. (What I most need it to do is take the prose
of heavily filtered press releases and simplify entering its valuable info
into my contact manager.) Usually it takes a few generations, usually three
for a type of program to go from "proof of concept" to "production".
Microsoft Beijing has developed search engines that can determine the
user's gender from the structure of the query.

I genuinely do seek a tool to ease my having to deal with pompous people
who refuse to accept simple language, but go out of their way to demand
pompous blather. Such people do exist, and unfortunately their number is
growing rapidly (which admittedly bodes ill for our national productuvity).

*+-a rwnc who frequently posts off-topic political assertions at

That's the New Gorista Way of explaining away "inconvenient" opponents..

So much for their believing in free speech..

I always asserted privacy and free speech are mutually exclusive,
and such people seem determined to prove me correct..

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 08:53:37 von vjp2.at

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 15:00:13 von Harlan Messinger

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I have seen programs which can be called "proof of concept". I'm not as
> familiar with natural language processing, though I have seen many
> unfulfilled promises about it. (What I most need it to do is take the prose
> of heavily filtered press releases and simplify entering its valuable info
> into my contact manager.) Usually it takes a few generations, usually three
> for a type of program to go from "proof of concept" to "production".
> Microsoft Beijing has developed search engines that can determine the
> user's gender from the structure of the query.

Men and women have different ways of typing "Paris Hilton"?
>
> I genuinely do seek a tool to ease my having to deal with pompous people
> who refuse to accept simple language, but go out of their way to demand
> pompous blather. Such people do exist, and unfortunately their number is
> growing rapidly (which admittedly bodes ill for our national productuvity).

While we often depend on second-hand reports of what someone has written
or said because the originals often contain details that we don't need
and we just want a summary. But everyone knows that this isn't as
reliable as the first-hand document, and if we need the details, and we
want to be sure there were no distortions in the interpretation, we need
to go to the original. But you're willing to rely on a *machine's*
interpretation of what someone else has written rather than read the
original yourself because the original is annoying and you don't want to
have to think about it too hard?

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 15:00:13 von Harlan Messinger

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 15:48:56 von grammatim

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I have seen programs which can be called "proof of concept". I'm not as
> familiar with natural language processing, though I have seen many
> unfulfilled promises about it. (What I most need it to do is take the prose
> of heavily filtered press releases and simplify entering its valuable info
> into my contact manager.) Usually it takes a few generations, usually three
> for a type of program to go from "proof of concept" to "production".
> Microsoft Beijing has developed search engines that can determine the
> user's gender from the structure of the query.
>
> I genuinely do seek a tool to ease my having to deal with pompous people
> who refuse to accept simple language, but go out of their way to demand
> pompous blather. Such people do exist, and unfortunately their number is
> growing rapidly (which admittedly bodes ill for our national productuvity).
>
> *+-a rwnc who frequently posts off-topic political assertions at
>
> That's the New Gorista Way of explaining away "inconvenient" opponents..
>
> So much for their believing in free speech..
>
> I always asserted privacy and free speech are mutually exclusive,
> and such people seem determined to prove me correct..

Political assertions are off-topic at nyc.transit, and queries about AI
are off-topic at sci.lang.

I don't know what a New Gorista, or even an Old Gorista, is.

Re: Blather-Adjusting Programs

am 27.12.2006 15:48:56 von grammatim

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I have seen programs which can be called "proof of concept". I'm not as
> familiar with natural language processing, though I have seen many
> unfulfilled promises about it. (What I most need it to do is take the prose
> of heavily filtered press releases and simplify entering its valuable info
> into my contact manager.) Usually it takes a few generations, usually three
> for a type of program to go from "proof of concept" to "production".
> Microsoft Beijing has developed search engines that can determine the
> user's gender from the structure of the query.
>
> I genuinely do seek a tool to ease my having to deal with pompous people
> who refuse to accept simple language, but go out of their way to demand
> pompous blather. Such people do exist, and unfortunately their number is
> growing rapidly (which admittedly bodes ill for our national productuvity).
>
> *+-a rwnc who frequently posts off-topic political assertions at
>
> That's the New Gorista Way of explaining away "inconvenient" opponents..
>
> So much for their believing in free speech..
>
> I always asserted privacy and free speech are mutually exclusive,
> and such people seem determined to prove me correct..

Political assertions are off-topic at nyc.transit, and queries about AI
are off-topic at sci.lang.

I don't know what a New Gorista, or even an Old Gorista, is.