Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just single
words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less concatenated?
For example, "they red solids" are 3 words of 6 letters or less that
concatenated would be "theyredsolids." Are there such dictionary files
downloadable, or is there a relatively easy way one could be created?

Thank you.
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Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

poster3814 wrote:

> Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just single
> words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less concatenated?


No, for obvious reasons.

> For example, "they red solids" are 3 words of 6 letters or less that
> concatenated would be "theyredsolids." Are there such dictionary files
> downloadable, or is there a relatively easy way one could be created?


You don't even need to create them, you can create those words on-the-fly
from the dictionary:

for(String wordA : dictionary)
for(String wordB : dictionary) {
wordAB = wordA + wordB;
for(String wordC : dictionary)
test_word(WordAB+WordC);
}

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

In article <59rdn9F2m5g18U1@mid.dfncis.de>,
Sebastian G. wrote:
>poster3814 wrote:

>> Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just single
>> words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less concatenated?

>No, for obvious reasons.

Not so obvious reasons for me -- I created something like that
about a decade ago.

But I'm not clear whether it is a directory of plaintext or of
hashes that the OP was looking for.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 WordsConcatenated?

roberson@hushmail.com (Walter Roberson) (07-05-02 14:34:26):

> > > Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just
> > > single words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less
> > > concatenated?
> >
> > No, for obvious reasons.
>
> Not so obvious reasons for me -- I created something like that about a
> decade ago.

Then you created a redundant list (not dictionary) which contains no
more information than a simple list of all terms involved. The
concatenation can be done on the fly, which generally is even faster.


> But I'm not clear whether it is a directory of plaintext or of hashes
> that the OP was looking for.

Either it's a list of plaintext strings or it's a dictionary of
plaintext-to-hash relations. A list of hash values would be pointless,
unless there is some known relationship.


Regards,
Ertugrul Söylemez.


--=20
=46rom the fact that this CGI program has been written in Haskell, it
follows naturally that this CGI program is perfectly secure.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Ertugrul Soeylemez wrote:
> roberson@hushmail.com (Walter Roberson) (07-05-02 14:34:26):
>
>>>> Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just
>>>> single words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less
>>>> concatenated?
>>> No, for obvious reasons.
>> Not so obvious reasons for me -- I created something like that about a
>> decade ago.
>
> Then you created a redundant list (not dictionary) which contains no
> more information than a simple list of all terms involved. The
> concatenation can be done on the fly, which generally is even faster.
>
>
>> But I'm not clear whether it is a directory of plaintext or of hashes
>> that the OP was looking for.
>
> Either it's a list of plaintext strings or it's a dictionary of
> plaintext-to-hash relations. A list of hash values would be pointless,
> unless there is some known relationship.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ertugrul Söylemez.
>
>

I guess I am interested in either: dictionaries or word lists of plain
text strings - a complete list of combinations - passphrase dictionaries
; OR for a program I can use to create complete passphrase dictionaries.
I've tried searching the Internet some but haven't found them yet.
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Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

poster3814 wrote:


> I guess I am interested in either: dictionaries or word lists of plain
> text strings - a complete list of combinations - passphrase dictionaries
> ; OR for a program I can use to create complete passphrase dictionaries.
> I've tried searching the Internet some but haven't found them yet.


As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because it's
absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line shell script
on almost any platform.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

In article <59tqrgF2mfj0mU1@mid.dfncis.de>,
Sebastian G. wrote:
>poster3814 wrote:

>> I guess I am interested in either: dictionaries or word lists of plain
>> text strings - a complete list of combinations - passphrase dictionaries
>> ; OR for a program I can use to create complete passphrase dictionaries.
>> I've tried searching the Internet some but haven't found them yet.

>As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because it's
>absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line shell script
>on almost any platform.

Then you won't mind sharing your one-line shell script with poster3814.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Walter Roberson wrote:


>> As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because it's
>> absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line shell script
>> on almost any platform.
>
> Then you won't mind sharing your one-line shell script with poster3814.

May I presume Windows cmd Shell?

(for /f "delims=" %i in (dictionary.txt) do \
for /f "delims=" %j in (dictionary.txt) do \
for /f "delims=" %k in (dictionary.txt) do echo %i%j%k) >output.txt

Or Bash?

(for $i in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
for $j in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
for $k in [dictionary.txt]; do; echo -n $i$j$k; end; end; end;) >output.txt

Now, need even more evidence that this is totally trivial?

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

In article <59uac4F2liuq4U1@mid.dfncis.de>,
Sebastian G. wrote:

>>> As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because it's
>>> absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line shell script
>>> on almost any platform.

>> Then you won't mind sharing your one-line shell script with poster3814.

>May I presume Windows cmd Shell?

>(for /f "delims=" %i in (dictionary.txt) do \
>for /f "delims=" %j in (dictionary.txt) do \
>for /f "delims=" %k in (dictionary.txt) do echo %i%j%k) >output.txt

>Or Bash?
>
>(for $i in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
>for $j in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
>for $k in [dictionary.txt]; do; echo -n $i$j$k; end; end; end;) >output.txt

>Now, need even more evidence that this is totally trivial?

Your programs do not appear to meet the user requirements that
the total after concatenation be 6 letters or less. It also does
not meet the requirement that two or three words be concatenated.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Walter Roberson wrote:


>> Now, need even more evidence that this is totally trivial?
>
> Your programs do not appear to meet the user requirements that the total
> after concatenation be 6 letters or less.


You can add this trivially.

> It also does
> not meet the requirement that two or three words be concatenated.


Oh c'mon, now this is so trivial as well.

But you're kinda right. It is furtile to discuss about such trivial things.
Especially with idiots who don't even consider it as trivial.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Sebastian G. wrote:
> Walter Roberson wrote:
>
>
>>> As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because
>>> it's absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line
>>> shell script on almost any platform.
>>
>> Then you won't mind sharing your one-line shell script with poster3814.
>
> May I presume Windows cmd Shell?
>
> (for /f "delims=" %i in (dictionary.txt) do \
> for /f "delims=" %j in (dictionary.txt) do \
> for /f "delims=" %k in (dictionary.txt) do echo %i%j%k) >output.txt
>
> Or Bash?
>
> (for $i in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
> for $j in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
> for $k in [dictionary.txt]; do; echo -n $i$j$k; end; end; end;) >output.txt
>
> Now, need even more evidence that this is totally trivial?

For what it's worth, this didn't work for me, at least not yet; I'm not
very familiar with programming with the Windows cmd shell, and the
programming I have done was a while ago, so I'm rusty. I apologize, but
that's one of the reasons I was wondering if this had already been done
by other people and available on the Internet.

Anyway, again for what it's worth, when I first ran this, I was told:

"'\' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable
program or batch file"

so I removed the two backslashes and tried again. The output file only
contained one result: a concatenation of "%i," "%j," the last word in
dictionary.txt, and a right parenthesis. For example:

%i%j[lastword])

I would prefer the output file to be a new complete dictionary file as
opposed to using a method like this on-the-fly.
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Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

poster3814 wrote:

> Sebastian G. wrote:
>> Walter Roberson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because
>>>> it's absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line
>>>> shell script on almost any platform.
>>> Then you won't mind sharing your one-line shell script with poster3814.
>> May I presume Windows cmd Shell?
>>
>> (for /f "delims=" %i in (dictionary.txt) do \
>> for /f "delims=" %j in (dictionary.txt) do \
>> for /f "delims=" %k in (dictionary.txt) do echo %i%j%k) >output.txt
>>
>> Or Bash?
>>
>> (for $i in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
>> for $j in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
>> for $k in [dictionary.txt]; do; echo -n $i$j$k; end; end; end;) >output.txt
>>
>> Now, need even more evidence that this is totally trivial?
>
> For what it's worth, this didn't work for me, at least not yet; I'm not
> very familiar with programming with the Windows cmd shell,


Doesn't matter much, since the "help" command exists.

Anyway, any programming language does the job. Even non-Turing-complete ones
like "LOOP".

> Anyway, again for what it's worth, when I first ran this, I was told:
>
> "'\' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable
> program or batch file"
>
> so I removed the two backslashes and tried again. The output file only
> contained one result: a concatenation of "%i," "%j," the last word in
> dictionary.txt, and a right parenthesis. For example:
>
> %i%j[lastword])


Maybe you should turn off your computer and switch over to a Gameboy[tm] if
you don't even know that '\' is a common annotation for "I had to insert a
line break here to not mess up the formatting. You should remove it."

You would you please all the three loops into one line that they're enclosed
and not compounded?

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

In article <1hxxzav.1me5h3rwud0myN%benoit.sansspam@leraillez.sansspam.com>,
Benoit Leraillez wrote:
>poster3814 wrote:

>> I would prefer the output file to be a new complete dictionary file as
>> opposed to using a method like this on-the-fly.

> Have you etimated the size of your new dictionary? Just start with
>100 000 words, that gives us 10 000 000 000 on a two word list and
>1 000 000 000 000 000 for a three word list, just say a word is 8
>letters long, that gives us a mean size of 24 letters so we need
>approximatly 24 10^15 or 24 000 TeraBytes. And that's a big hard
>drive ;-)

The original posting imposed fairly strict limits on the total
length of the concatenated word. The original posting also implied
that the length limit was not through truncation -- that the two
or three words together had to add up to at most the size limit.
Most combinations of words would not pass this criteria, so the
total dictionary size would be much much smaller than you estimate.

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

On Fri, 11 May 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
<7i_0i.172910$DE1.113478@pd7urf2no>, Walter Roberson wrote:

>Benoit Leraillez wrote:

>> Have you etimated the size of your new dictionary? Just start with
>>100 000 words, that gives us 10 000 000 000 on a two word list and
>>1 000 000 000 000 000 for a three word list, just say a word is 8
>>letters long, that gives us a mean size of 24 letters so we need
>>approximatly 24 10^15 or 24 000 TeraBytes. And that's a big hard
>>drive ;-)
>
>The original posting imposed fairly strict limits on the total
>length of the concatenated word. The original posting also implied
>that the length limit was not through truncation -- that the two
>or three words together had to add up to at most the size limit.

The original post said:

Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just single
words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less concatenated?
For example, "they red solids" are 3 words of 6 letters or less that
concatenated would be "theyredsolids." Are there such dictionary files
downloadable, or is there a relatively easy way one could be created?

[compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/local/share/dict/web2
Source /usr/local/share/dict/web2 has 235882 words
.. 52 ........ 29988
... 160 ......... 32403
.... 1420 .......... 30878
..... 5272 ........... 26013
...... 10228 ............ 20462
....... 17705 more than 12 char 37432
........ 23869
[compton ~]$ echo "52+160+1420+5272+10228+17705" | bc
34837
[compton ~]$ echo "34837^3" | bc
42278760414253
[compton ~]$

That's still quite a few words to mash together ;-)

/usr/local/share/dict/web2 is the "Webster's Second International"
available through any search engine

Old guy

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Sebastian G. wrote:
> poster3814 wrote:
>
>> Sebastian G. wrote:
>>> Walter Roberson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> As you've already been told: Such a program doesn't exist, because
>>>>> it's absolutely trivial. You can even implement it with a one-line
>>>>> shell script on almost any platform.
>>>> Then you won't mind sharing your one-line shell script with poster3814.
>>> May I presume Windows cmd Shell?
>>>
>>> (for /f "delims=" %i in (dictionary.txt) do \
>>> for /f "delims=" %j in (dictionary.txt) do \
>>> for /f "delims=" %k in (dictionary.txt) do echo %i%j%k) >output.txt
>>>
>>> Or Bash?
>>>
>>> (for $i in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
>>> for $j in [dictionary.txt]; do; \
>>> for $k in [dictionary.txt]; do; echo -n $i$j$k; end; end; end;)
>>> >output.txt
>>>
>>> Now, need even more evidence that this is totally trivial?
>>
>> For what it's worth, this didn't work for me, at least not yet; I'm
>> not very familiar with programming with the Windows cmd shell,
>
>
> Doesn't matter much, since the "help" command exists.
>
> Anyway, any programming language does the job. Even non-Turing-complete
> ones like "LOOP".
>
>> Anyway, again for what it's worth, when I first ran this, I was told:
>>
>> "'\' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable
>> program or batch file"
>>
>> so I removed the two backslashes and tried again. The output file only
>> contained one result: a concatenation of "%i," "%j," the last word in
>> dictionary.txt, and a right parenthesis. For example:
>>
>> %i%j[lastword])
>
>
> Maybe you should turn off your computer and switch over to a Gameboy[tm]
> if you don't even know that '\' is a common annotation for "I had to
> insert a line break here to not mess up the formatting. You should
> remove it."
>
> You would you please all the three loops into one line that they're
> enclosed and not compounded?

Well, as I said:

"The programming I have done was a while ago, so I'm rusty. I apologize,
but that's one of the reasons I was wondering if this had already been
done by other people and available on the Internet."

Also, when I was doing some programming back then, I had no need to
share the code with others in such a way that I needed to add a
backslash to indicate that "I had to insert a line break here to not
mess up the formatting. You should remove it."

I don't feel like having to figure this out myself - at least not at
this point in time - especially if someone else had already done it and
made it easily available. Imagine if someone had answered, "Yes. Try out
[this web site] or [that web site] or said, "Yes, [this program] or
[that program] can do what you're looking for." What a waste it would be
for me to "re-invent the wheel," so to speak.

So, I figured, "No harm in asking." I've got plenty of other things I
should be spending my time and effort on instead.
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Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Moe Trin wrote:
> On Fri, 11 May 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
> <7i_0i.172910$DE1.113478@pd7urf2no>, Walter Roberson wrote:
>
>> Benoit Leraillez wrote:
>
>>> Have you etimated the size of your new dictionary? Just start with
>>> 100 000 words, that gives us 10 000 000 000 on a two word list and
>>> 1 000 000 000 000 000 for a three word list, just say a word is 8
>>> letters long, that gives us a mean size of 24 letters so we need
>>> approximatly 24 10^15 or 24 000 TeraBytes. And that's a big hard
>>> drive ;-)
>> The original posting imposed fairly strict limits on the total
>> length of the concatenated word. The original posting also implied
>> that the length limit was not through truncation -- that the two
>> or three words together had to add up to at most the size limit.
>
> The original post said:
>
> Are there password dictionary files whose entries aren't just single
> words but rather 2 or 3 words of maybe 6 letters or less concatenated?
> For example, "they red solids" are 3 words of 6 letters or less that
> concatenated would be "theyredsolids." Are there such dictionary files
> downloadable, or is there a relatively easy way one could be created?
>
> [compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/local/share/dict/web2
> Source /usr/local/share/dict/web2 has 235882 words
> . 52 ........ 29988
> .. 160 ......... 32403
> ... 1420 .......... 30878
> .... 5272 ........... 26013
> ..... 10228 ............ 20462
> ...... 17705 more than 12 char 37432
> ....... 23869
> [compton ~]$ echo "52+160+1420+5272+10228+17705" | bc
> 34837
> [compton ~]$ echo "34837^3" | bc
> 42278760414253
> [compton ~]$
>
> That's still quite a few words to mash together ;-)
>
> /usr/local/share/dict/web2 is the "Webster's Second International"
> available through any search engine
>
> Old guy

To be honest, I was thinking there might be a variety of dictionary
files out there of this type that aren't "complete" dictionaries. For
example, ones with only "everyday" words, so to speak, or ones with no
scientific terms, or no proper nouns, no numerals, etc. I thought it
feasible that such a file would be of a manageable size.

I was also thinking that if there were programs that do what I was
asking that perhaps the user could select criteria, such as only
concatenating 2 words of 5 letters each. Then the user could run it
again later concatenating 2 words of 4 letters each, etc.
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Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

On Sun, 20 May 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
, poster3814 wrote:

>Moe Trin wrote:

>> [compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/local/share/dict/web2
>> Source /usr/local/share/dict/web2 has 235882 words
>> . 52 ........ 29988
>> .. 160 ......... 32403
>> ... 1420 .......... 30878
>> .... 5272 ........... 26013
>> ..... 10228 ............ 20462
>> ...... 17705 more than 12 char 37432
>> ....... 23869
>> [compton ~]$ echo "52+160+1420+5272+10228+17705" | bc
>> 34837
>> [compton ~]$ echo "34837^3" | bc
>> 42278760414253
>> [compton ~]$
>>
>> That's still quite a few words to mash together ;-)
>>
>> /usr/local/share/dict/web2 is the "Webster's Second International"
>> available through any search engine

>To be honest, I was thinking there might be a variety of dictionary
>files out there of this type that aren't "complete" dictionaries. For
>example, ones with only "everyday" words, so to speak, or ones with no
>scientific terms, or no proper nouns, no numerals, etc. I thought it
>feasible that such a file would be of a manageable size.

The size of a dictionary is nearly always an advertising gimmick. I have
two paperback dictionaries on this desk with the number of definitions
prominently displayed as if more is better. A more commonly used
computer word list (not a dictionary, because it lacks definitions) has

[compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/share/dict/words
Source /usr/share/dict/words has 45402 words
.. 0 ...... 6175 ........... 3069
... 49 ....... 7370 ............ 1881
.... 536 ........ 7075 ............. 1136
..... 2238 ......... 6086 .............. 545
...... 4179 .......... 4592 15 or more char 471
[compton ~]$

which (assuming English is your original language) is more like what you
would be using in normal conversation. In the 1950s, international short
wave radio was an important tool used to exchange news, ideas and culture
among nations. The official USA service was The Voice Of America, which
(at the peak in the 1960s) had dozens of transmitters broadcasting 24/7
in dozens of languages. ONE OF those languages was called "Special English"
and used a vocabulary of just 1500 words, for people who used English as a
second or third language. While they did speak slower, even that limited
number of words didn't make the language seem out of place for a primary
English speaker.

>I was also thinking that if there were programs that do what I was
>asking that perhaps the user could select criteria, such as only
>concatenating 2 words of 5 letters each. Then the user could run it
>again later concatenating 2 words of 4 letters each, etc.

I don't know why one would be needed, as this is trivial to accomplish
using virtually any programming language from BASIC to perl to ruby to
you name it. Creating a dictionary of such combinations is pretty much a
waste of CPU cycles and disk-space. Using the word-list noted above, there
are 2238 words of four characters, and 4179 of five. Any two five letter
words, and you have about 4179^2 or 1.75e6 results. Ignoring case, and
using a 5 bit (Baudot) alphabet, storing those strings would require over
a hundred megabytes of space - closer to 180 megabyts using ASCII.

To what end? Do you want to make a book that takes these words and
creates a password hash for each one? For the normal UNIX 'crypt'
mechanism which adds two 'salt' characters to "spice up" (vary) the
hashing algorithm, those 1.75e6 passwords become 7.15e10 different
13 character result hashes which would take 930 Gigabytes to store in
ASCII. Allowing the password to contain upper and lower case multiplies
the storage space needed by several orders of magnitude.

Old guy

Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Moe Trin wrote:
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
> , poster3814 wrote:
>
>> Moe Trin wrote:
>
>>> [compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/local/share/dict/web2
>>> Source /usr/local/share/dict/web2 has 235882 words
>>> . 52 ........ 29988
>>> .. 160 ......... 32403
>>> ... 1420 .......... 30878
>>> .... 5272 ........... 26013
>>> ..... 10228 ............ 20462
>>> ...... 17705 more than 12 char 37432
>>> ....... 23869
>>> [compton ~]$ echo "52+160+1420+5272+10228+17705" | bc
>>> 34837
>>> [compton ~]$ echo "34837^3" | bc
>>> 42278760414253
>>> [compton ~]$
>>>
>>> That's still quite a few words to mash together ;-)
>>>
>>> /usr/local/share/dict/web2 is the "Webster's Second International"
>>> available through any search engine
>
>> To be honest, I was thinking there might be a variety of dictionary
>> files out there of this type that aren't "complete" dictionaries. For
>> example, ones with only "everyday" words, so to speak, or ones with no
>> scientific terms, or no proper nouns, no numerals, etc. I thought it
>> feasible that such a file would be of a manageable size.
>
> The size of a dictionary is nearly always an advertising gimmick. I have
> two paperback dictionaries on this desk with the number of definitions
> prominently displayed as if more is better. A more commonly used
> computer word list (not a dictionary, because it lacks definitions) has
>
> [compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/share/dict/words
> Source /usr/share/dict/words has 45402 words
> . 0 ...... 6175 ........... 3069
> .. 49 ....... 7370 ............ 1881
> ... 536 ........ 7075 ............. 1136
> .... 2238 ......... 6086 .............. 545
> ..... 4179 .......... 4592 15 or more char 471
> [compton ~]$
>
> which (assuming English is your original language) is more like what you
> would be using in normal conversation. In the 1950s, international short
> wave radio was an important tool used to exchange news, ideas and culture
> among nations. The official USA service was The Voice Of America, which
> (at the peak in the 1960s) had dozens of transmitters broadcasting 24/7
> in dozens of languages. ONE OF those languages was called "Special English"
> and used a vocabulary of just 1500 words, for people who used English as a
> second or third language. While they did speak slower, even that limited
> number of words didn't make the language seem out of place for a primary
> English speaker.
>
>> I was also thinking that if there were programs that do what I was
>> asking that perhaps the user could select criteria, such as only
>> concatenating 2 words of 5 letters each. Then the user could run it
>> again later concatenating 2 words of 4 letters each, etc.
>
> I don't know why one would be needed, as this is trivial to accomplish
> using virtually any programming language from BASIC to perl to ruby to
> you name it. Creating a dictionary of such combinations is pretty much a
> waste of CPU cycles and disk-space. Using the word-list noted above, there
> are 2238 words of four characters, and 4179 of five. Any two five letter
> words, and you have about 4179^2 or 1.75e6 results. Ignoring case, and
> using a 5 bit (Baudot) alphabet, storing those strings would require over
> a hundred megabytes of space - closer to 180 megabyts using ASCII.
>
> To what end? Do you want to make a book that takes these words and
> creates a password hash for each one? For the normal UNIX 'crypt'
> mechanism which adds two 'salt' characters to "spice up" (vary) the
> hashing algorithm, those 1.75e6 passwords become 7.15e10 different
> 13 character result hashes which would take 930 Gigabytes to store in
> ASCII. Allowing the password to contain upper and lower case multiplies
> the storage space needed by several orders of magnitude.
>
> Old guy

Eesh. That's a lot of data.

Your post seems to make a lot of sense, and I appreciate your time in
replying. As it seems the question I was wondering about would prove to
be a big mess of a solution, and it's really not that big a deal to me
anyway, I don't want to waste anyone's time further with it.

Thanks again for everyone's time and effort.
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Please respond to the newsgroup only. Email sent to this account goes
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Re: Password Dictionary File/ Each Entry is 2 or 3 Words Concatenated?

Moe Trin wrote:
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
> , poster3814 wrote:
>
>> Moe Trin wrote:
>
>>> [compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/local/share/dict/web2
>>> Source /usr/local/share/dict/web2 has 235882 words
>>> . 52 ........ 29988
>>> .. 160 ......... 32403
>>> ... 1420 .......... 30878
>>> .... 5272 ........... 26013
>>> ..... 10228 ............ 20462
>>> ...... 17705 more than 12 char 37432
>>> ....... 23869
>>> [compton ~]$ echo "52+160+1420+5272+10228+17705" | bc
>>> 34837
>>> [compton ~]$ echo "34837^3" | bc
>>> 42278760414253
>>> [compton ~]$
>>>
>>> That's still quite a few words to mash together ;-)
>>>
>>> /usr/local/share/dict/web2 is the "Webster's Second International"
>>> available through any search engine
>
>> To be honest, I was thinking there might be a variety of dictionary
>> files out there of this type that aren't "complete" dictionaries. For
>> example, ones with only "everyday" words, so to speak, or ones with no
>> scientific terms, or no proper nouns, no numerals, etc. I thought it
>> feasible that such a file would be of a manageable size.
>
> The size of a dictionary is nearly always an advertising gimmick. I have
> two paperback dictionaries on this desk with the number of definitions
> prominently displayed as if more is better. A more commonly used
> computer word list (not a dictionary, because it lacks definitions) has
>
> [compton ~]$ size.of.words /usr/share/dict/words
> Source /usr/share/dict/words has 45402 words
> . 0 ...... 6175 ........... 3069
> .. 49 ....... 7370 ............ 1881
> ... 536 ........ 7075 ............. 1136
> .... 2238 ......... 6086 .............. 545
> ..... 4179 .......... 4592 15 or more char 471
> [compton ~]$
>
> which (assuming English is your original language) is more like what you
> would be using in normal conversation. In the 1950s, international short
> wave radio was an important tool used to exchange news, ideas and culture
> among nations. The official USA service was The Voice Of America, which
> (at the peak in the 1960s) had dozens of transmitters broadcasting 24/7
> in dozens of languages. ONE OF those languages was called "Special English"
> and used a vocabulary of just 1500 words, for people who used English as a
> second or third language. While they did speak slower, even that limited
> number of words didn't make the language seem out of place for a primary
> English speaker.
>
>> I was also thinking that if there were programs that do what I was
>> asking that perhaps the user could select criteria, such as only
>> concatenating 2 words of 5 letters each. Then the user could run it
>> again later concatenating 2 words of 4 letters each, etc.
>
> I don't know why one would be needed, as this is trivial to accomplish
> using virtually any programming language from BASIC to perl to ruby to
> you name it. Creating a dictionary of such combinations is pretty much a
> waste of CPU cycles and disk-space. Using the word-list noted above, there
> are 2238 words of four characters, and 4179 of five. Any two five letter
> words, and you have about 4179^2 or 1.75e6 results. Ignoring case, and
> using a 5 bit (Baudot) alphabet, storing those strings would require over
> a hundred megabytes of space - closer to 180 megabyts using ASCII.
>
> To what end? Do you want to make a book that takes these words and
> creates a password hash for each one? For the normal UNIX 'crypt'
> mechanism which adds two 'salt' characters to "spice up" (vary) the
> hashing algorithm, those 1.75e6 passwords become 7.15e10 different
> 13 character result hashes which would take 930 Gigabytes to store in
> ASCII. Allowing the password to contain upper and lower case multiplies
> the storage space needed by several orders of magnitude.
>
> Old guy

Eesh. That's a lot of data.

Your post seems to make a lot of sense, and I appreciate your time in
replying. As it seems the question I was wondering about would prove to
be a big mess of a solution, and it's really not that big a deal to me
anyway, I don't want to waste anyone's time further with it.

Thanks again for everyone's time and effort. I appreciate it.
--
Please respond to the newsgroup only. Email sent to this account goes
unread.