Timmermans wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In an attempt to get rid of all javascript on my page, I was looking for the
> html/css/whatever equivalent of the following javascript tag;
>
>
> btw, your 'select a style' feature on camelbones doesn't work
> crossbrowser... now that's something the users don't need!
On the contrary - the most common browser used by my visitors (Safari)
does not provide a built-in means to select among alternative stylesheets.
Unlike your misguided attempt to duplicate the wheel, the in-page select
box provides an option that the browser itself does not.
And I don't care about IE/Windows compatibility, because it's a site of
interest only to Mac users anyway.
Since you've descended to to ad hominem attacks - illogical and incorrect
ones at that - instead of rational debate, I will discuss this no further
with you.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 12.05.2007 11:26:11 von Michael Fesser
..oO(Sherm Pendley)
>And I don't care about IE/Windows compatibility, because it's a site of
>interest only to Mac users anyway.
>
>Since you've descended to to ad hominem attacks - illogical and incorrect
>ones at that - instead of rational debate, I will discuss this no further
>with you.
And Mac users will never be in a situation where they might have to use
a Windows browser? Is _that_ logical and rational?
Just curious.
Micha
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 12.05.2007 14:07:42 von Timmermans
"Sherm Pendley" wrote in message
news:m28xbulds0.fsf@local.wv-www.com...
> "Timmermans" writes:
>
>> btw, your 'select a style' feature on camelbones doesn't work
>> crossbrowser... now that's something the users don't need!
>
> On the contrary - the most common browser used by my visitors (Safari)
> does not provide a built-in means to select among alternative stylesheets.
> Unlike your misguided attempt to duplicate the wheel, the in-page select
> box provides an option that the browser itself does not.
>
> And I don't care about IE/Windows compatibility, because it's a site of
> interest only to Mac users anyway.
>
> Since you've descended to to ad hominem attacks - illogical and incorrect
> ones at that - instead of rational debate, I will discuss this no further
> with you.
>
> sherm--
Sherm, not all users are mac users! I've visited your site out of
curiousity, and pointed out the obvious. It was not meant as an attack just
as your comments were not meant te give me an answer to my problem.
"Unlike your misguided attempt to duplicate the wheel, the in-page select
box provides an option that the browser itself does not." ...nyeah, if only
it would work for what is still the most comon browser, lol. As for
reinventing the wheel, I'm not trying to... ...I could actually ask the
same, why is it that you provide several links up to three times if the user
could find it on one only?
Nevermind how you dress up a site, or which gimmicks you have, above all it
should remain functional and accessible and not just for your target
audience. When designing a site, eben if it would validate html4 strickt,
try to include crossbrowsercompatibility (IE, FF, ...whatever) and
accessability rules so everyone can enjoy the site. If as a designer (?)
you push aside these basics, you are in no possition to judge nor set the
limits on other peoples work or requests. Unless ofcourse they are Mac users
who don't give diddly about the rest of the world. ;-)
Kind Regards,
Steven
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 12.05.2007 15:02:10 von lws4art
Sherm Pendley wrote:
> "Timmermans" writes:
>
>> btw, your 'select a style' feature on camelbones doesn't work
>> crossbrowser... now that's something the users don't need!
Cheap shot, when he say doesn't work says don't work he means "in IE".
BTW Sherm it would be easy to fix for IE. All you have to do is set and
use the OPTION's value and not selectedIndex:
>
> On the contrary - the most common browser used by my visitors (Safari)
> does not provide a built-in means to select among alternative stylesheets.
> Unlike your misguided attempt to duplicate the wheel, the in-page select
> box provides an option that the browser itself does not.
True. The print button be a "feature" of the browser for a long time ;-)
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 12.05.2007 20:34:41 von Sherm Pendley
"Jonathan N. Little" writes:
> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>> "Timmermans" writes:
>>
>>> btw, your 'select a style' feature on camelbones doesn't work
>>> crossbrowser... now that's something the users don't need!
>
> Cheap shot, when he say doesn't work says don't work he means "in
> IE". BTW Sherm it would be easy to fix for IE.
Probably, but CamelBones itself is a Mac developer's toolkit that doesn't
run on Windows, and probably never will. It's a rare site for which IE/Win
is the tiny minority (< 5%), and I intend to enjoy my freedom while I have
the chance. :-)
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 12.05.2007 20:45:21 von Sherm Pendley
"Timmermans" writes:
> Sherm, not all users are mac users!
All my users are. CamelBones is a toolkit for Mac developers. It doesn't
run on Windows, and probably never will.
> "Unlike your misguided attempt to duplicate the wheel, the in-page select
> box provides an option that the browser itself does not." ...nyeah, if only
> it would work for what is still the most comon browser, lol.
The most common browser on that site is Safari, with 45%. Not only does the
in-page select box work on Safari, it provides the *only* means for Safari
users to select among alternative stylesheets. You're comparing apples and
oranges.
Show me a browser that doesn't have its own standardized built-in "print"
command, and then your comparison will make sense.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 12.05.2007 23:30:47 von lws4art
Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Probably, but CamelBones itself is a Mac developer's toolkit that doesn't
> run on Windows, and probably never will. It's a rare site for which IE/Win
> is the tiny minority (< 5%), and I intend to enjoy my freedom while I have
> the chance. :-)
I may be developing for Mac but at the moment using a Windows computer.
Anyway the fix is simple.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 03:46:20 von Timmermans
"Sherm Pendley" wrote in message
news:m2veexkhj2.fsf@local.wv-www.com...
> "Timmermans" writes:
>
>> Sherm, not all users are mac users!
>
> All my users are. CamelBones is a toolkit for Mac developers. It doesn't
> run on Windows, and probably never will.
>
>> "Unlike your misguided attempt to duplicate the wheel, the in-page select
>> box provides an option that the browser itself does not." ...nyeah, if
>> only
>> it would work for what is still the most comon browser, lol.
>
> The most common browser on that site is Safari, with 45%. Not only does
> the
> in-page select box work on Safari, it provides the *only* means for Safari
> users to select among alternative stylesheets. You're comparing apples and
> oranges.
>
> Show me a browser that doesn't have its own standardized built-in "print"
> command, and then your comparison will make sense.
Well yeah if you want to talk about built in features you can stretch that
as far as you want... why put in a 'Home' link 3 times if people can use
their browsers history to get back to that page? If I wanted a basic site
with no features at all, I would have uploaded the entire thing in .txt
format... and even then they would be more compatible then yours.
Compare apple and oranges if you will, my print button, though perhaps
excisive, works for everyone, your Mac only stylesheets don't. I'm not
doing anything wrong by putting in a print button, so what's your beef
anyway?
Kind Regards,
Steven
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 04:01:23 von Timmermans
"Sherm Pendley" wrote in message
news:m2zm49ki0u.fsf@local.wv-www.com...
> "Jonathan N. Little" writes:
>
>> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>>> "Timmermans" writes:
>>>
>>>> btw, your 'select a style' feature on camelbones doesn't work
>>>> crossbrowser... now that's something the users don't need!
>>
>> Cheap shot, when he say doesn't work says don't work he means "in
>> IE". BTW Sherm it would be easy to fix for IE.
>
> Probably, but CamelBones itself is a Mac developer's toolkit that doesn't
> run on Windows, and probably never will. It's a rare site for which IE/Win
> is the tiny minority (< 5%), and I intend to enjoy my freedom while I have
> the chance. :-)
>
> sherm--
>
> --
> Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
> Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Enjoy your freedom? Good joke man... !!! :-)
How about the freedom of your users, them non Mac users, how many visitors
do they represent? If everyone starts designing like that, you actually
create some sort of ghetto for Mac users, IE users passing by seeing no more
then a middle finger in the name of that freedom. I would expect better for
someone who presents himself as a pro.
Sherm, you say you only have 5% of IE/Win users, a self-limited amount, how
many visitors you might have if your site would be available to everyone?
The whole idea to build a website is to attrackt visitors and inform people,
it is why you're posting your links in your sig, no? So I, a non Mac user,
visit your site and turns out you've build a site site for Mac users only.
If you can't be bothered with non Mac users why not inform them in your sig
that your sites are for Mac users only and that others don't have to bother
to visit because they only get half the works? Why not just post your sig
in stricktly Mac communities? How much of you freedom would that take?
Kind Regards,
Steven
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 04:07:46 von lws4art
Timmermans wrote:
> Well yeah if you want to talk about built in features you can stretch that
> as far as you want... why put in a 'Home' link 3 times if people can use
> their browsers history to get back to that page?
And if you entered your site not form the home page, but directly for
bookmark or external link form another site? Bad argument!
> If I wanted a basic site
> with no features at all, I would have uploaded the entire thing in .txt
> format... and even then they would be more compatible then yours.
Now you are being silly...
>
> Compare apple and oranges if you will, my print button, though perhaps
> excisive, works for everyone, your Mac only stylesheets don't. I'm not
> doing anything wrong by putting in a print button, so what's your beef
> anyway?
They are not Mac only, just not IE friendly, although Sherm could easily
correct this as I have posted...
Back to the point in hand, there is no HTML | CSS print solution for you
only JavaScript and it is very unnecessary since the browser has a Print
button and now most have Print Preview as well.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 04:30:06 von Timmermans
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote in message
news:b330f$4646730a$40cba7a3$13602@NAXS.COM...
> Timmermans wrote:
>
>> Well yeah if you want to talk about built in features you can stretch
>> that as far as you want... why put in a 'Home' link 3 times if people can
>> use their browsers history to get back to that page?
>
> And if you entered your site not form the home page, but directly for
> bookmark or external link form another site? Bad argument!
A homepage link on the homepage, makes sense? Just as much as using frames.
>> If I wanted a basic site with no features at all, I would have uploaded
>> the entire thing in .txt format... and even then they would be more
>> compatible then yours.
>
> Now you are being silly...
Yeah, then again, this whole thread is... I really didn't ask wether or not
I need a print button, but wether there is an html alternative for
javascipt.
>> Compare apple and oranges if you will, my print button, though perhaps
>> excisive, works for everyone, your Mac only stylesheets don't. I'm not
>> doing anything wrong by putting in a print button, so what's your beef
>> anyway?
> They are not Mac only, just not IE friendly, although Sherm could easily
> correct this as I have posted...
He prefers freedom?
> Back to the point in hand, there is no HTML | CSS print solution for you
> only JavaScript and it is very unnecessary since the browser has a Print
> button and now most have Print Preview as well.
So I've learned :-)
> --
> Take care,
>
> Jonathan
> -------------------
> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Kind Regards,
Steven
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 05:09:10 von Sherm Pendley
"Jonathan N. Little" writes:
> They are not Mac only, just not IE friendly, although Sherm could
> easily correct this as I have posted...
I tried your solution - it breaks in Safari. With your code, trying to
switch stylesheets in Safari results in no stylesheet at all being selected.
With Safari users at about 45% of my site's traffic, and given the fact
that Safari's lack of a built-in way to switch stylesheets is the reason
that drop-down exists to begin with, I'm not willing to break it for the
sake of the handful (<5%) of IE users that site gets.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 05:16:45 von Sherm Pendley
"Timmermans" writes:
> "Jonathan N. Little" wrote in message
> news:b330f$4646730a$40cba7a3$13602@NAXS.COM...
>> Timmermans wrote:
>>
>>> Well yeah if you want to talk about built in features you can stretch
>>> that as far as you want... why put in a 'Home' link 3 times if people can
>>> use their browsers history to get back to that page?
>>
>> And if you entered your site not form the home page, but directly for
>> bookmark or external link form another site? Bad argument!
>
> A homepage link on the homepage, makes sense? Just as much as using frames.
User interface studies have shown that "moving menus" tend to confuse users.
So instead of doing that, I leave the menu and navbar layout unchanged and
highlight the current page.
The current page is not a link, and no frames are used.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 05:24:54 von Sherm Pendley
"Timmermans" writes:
> Sherm, you say you only have 5% of IE/Win users, a self-limited amount, how
> many visitors you might have if your site would be available to everyone?
The number of IE/Windows users isn't limited by the site - it's limited by
the fact that CamelBones itself, being a wrapper for Apple's Cocoa framework
for Mac programmers, is not of interest to Windows developers.
> If you can't be bothered with non Mac users why not inform them in your sig
> that your sites are for Mac users only
The site is *not* for Mac users only. Why do you keep repeating that lie? The
only thing IE users are missing is the ability to switch stylesheets. It's
valid, portable HTML, and the default stylesheet renders just fine in IE.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 09:14:08 von JD
Sherm Pendley wrote:
> "Timmermans" writes:
>
>> Sherm, you say you only have 5% of IE/Win users, a self-limited amount, how
>> many visitors you might have if your site would be available to everyone?
>
> The number of IE/Windows users isn't limited by the site - it's limited by
> the fact that CamelBones itself, being a wrapper for Apple's Cocoa framework
> for Mac programmers, is not of interest to Windows developers.
>
>> If you can't be bothered with non Mac users why not inform them in your sig
>> that your sites are for Mac users only
>
> The site is *not* for Mac users only. Why do you keep repeating that lie? The
> only thing IE users are missing is the ability to switch stylesheets. It's
> valid, portable HTML, and the default stylesheet renders just fine in IE.
That's true: the default style looks fine in IE.
The only problem is, in IE7 at least, is that if you use the stylesheet
switcher just once (even if you simply click it without making a
selection), the site becomes unstyled and there doesn't seem to be any
way to get back the nice visuals, short of clearing the browser cache
and refreshing the page.
A quick fix might be to hide the stylesheet switcher from all versions
of IE using some filters.
Re: Convert javascript print-tag to html
am 13.05.2007 09:55:44 von Sherm Pendley
JD writes:
> A quick fix might be to hide the stylesheet switcher from all versions
> of IE using some filters.
Good idea - done.
Actually though, it's implemented the other way around. The div with the
switcher is empty when the page loads, and its innerHTML is replaced if
the browser isn't IE. Users who have disabled JS, or are using a non-JS
browser, won't see the switcher either - a good thing, since it requires
JS to function.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net