I want to present a series of rows with 2 choices on each, only
one of which can be selected. Radio button, i guess. But i
*don't* want either choice to be preselected. Gee, that sounds
like a simple problem ... and one I've seen solved before.
Tips?
Time Waster wrote:
> I want to present a series of rows with 2 choices on each, only one of
> which can be selected. Radio button, i guess. But i *don't* want
> either choice to be preselected. Gee, that sounds like a simple
> problem ... and one I've seen solved before.
Radio buttons are by default unselected, unless you add
checked
to one of them.
Green
Red
Blue
Brown
Blue would be selected. Oh, and many browsers remember what was selected
a first time, and may show that same selection if the page is refreshed,
even though you did not use "checked".
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
In article <42q2i.30526$cu1.27479@trnddc01>,
bfc@fenway.UUCP (Time Waster) wrote:
> I want to present a series of rows with 2 choices on each, only
> one of which can be selected. Radio button, i guess. But i
> *don't* want either choice to be preselected. Gee, that sounds
> like a simple problem ... and one I've seen solved before.
>
> Tips?
Don't have "checked". What about something like this or in a
table:
Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
> Radio buttons are by default unselected, unless you add checked
> to one of them.
It's more complicated than that. This is a vague area in specifications, and
browser behavior varies. Moreover, there are other reasons why every set of
radio buttons should have one alternative preselected; normally this
alternative should be neutral or indicate "not answered yet". See
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/choices.html
Normally there should be one input item with its label on one line. If an
author thinks he "needs" something else, he really needs to reconsider some
decisions.
In this case, what might be the original problem that led to the assumption
that two unselected radio buttons on one row is the way to go?
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
>> Radio buttons are by default unselected, unless you add checked
>> to one of them.
>
> It's more complicated than that. This is a vague area in
> specifications, and browser behavior varies. Moreover, there are
> other reasons why every set of radio buttons should have one
> alternative preselected; normally this alternative should be neutral
> or indicate "not answered yet". See
> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/choices.html
So you're saying that:
( ) Male
( ) Female
(X) Neither
is ok? ;-0
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
On 2007-05-16, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>
>> Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
>>> Radio buttons are by default unselected, unless you add checked
>>> to one of them.
>>
>> It's more complicated than that. This is a vague area in
>> specifications, and browser behavior varies. Moreover, there are
>> other reasons why every set of radio buttons should have one
>> alternative preselected; normally this alternative should be neutral
>> or indicate "not answered yet". See
>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/choices.html
>
> So you're saying that:
> ( ) Male
> ( ) Female
> (X) Neither
> is ok? ;-0
If the question is "Gender?", then yes, it is OK.
If the question is "Sex?", then no, it is not (at least among
humans).
--
Chris F.A. Johnson
============================================================ =======
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
> So you're saying that:
> ( ) Male
> ( ) Female
> (X) Neither
> is ok? ;-0
No, the third alternative should be
(X) None of your business
or
(X) Not answered yet
Some people might want to see the additional alternative
( ) Both
or
( ) In transition
but that's a different issue, though related in the sense that a neutral
(non-answer) alternative covers them as well.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
>
>> So you're saying that:
>> ( ) Male
>> ( ) Female
>> (X) Neither
>> is ok? ;-0
>
> No, the third alternative should be
> (X) None of your business
> or
> (X) Not answered yet
>
> Some people might want to see the additional alternative
> ( ) Both
> or
> ( ) In transition
> but that's a different issue, though related in the sense that a neutral
> (non-answer) alternative covers them as well.
I know... you missed the winking smiley.
I do have an online form with Gender: male/female and if no choice is
made the submitter can't win any awards for, say, Long Distance Male
Solo Rider, or Oldest Female Rider, etc., at a club's annual motorcycle
rally.
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
> I know... you missed the winking smiley.
No, I simply ignore smileys as garbage, since they are garbage. The only
thing that can be deduced from a smiley is that the writer might not mean
what he writes, but we know that without a smiley, too.
> I do have an online form with Gender: male/female
That's all wrong, since for gender, the correct alternatives are masculine,
feminine, neuter, unspecified. Depending on language, one or three of them
might be extraneous.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
>> I do have an online form with Gender: male/female
>
> That's all wrong, since for gender, the correct alternatives are
> masculine, feminine, neuter, unspecified. Depending on language, one
> or three of them might be extraneous.
The dictionary does state, possibly from common usage, that gender can
mean:
3.
a. The condition of being female or male; sex.
b. Females or males considered as a group:
/expressions used by one gender/.
Aside: when asked, "Sex:" these motorcycle riders sometimes tend to
answer with "Yes", "No", or "Occasionally" if you give 'em a
chance. Every year someone does this on the paper form at the gate, used
by those who don't visit the pre-registration web form.
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Lol, the conversation took a funny turn while i was out.
In article
Jukka K. Korpela
>http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/choices.html
Thanks for the link, it looks very informative.
>Normally there should be one input item with its label on one line. If an
>author thinks he "needs" something else, he really needs to reconsider some
>decisions.
>
>In this case, what might be the original problem that led to the assumption
>that two unselected radio buttons on one row is the way to go?
In my case, i do actually use Lynx quite a bit and saw the first
button selected as suggested by the HTML standard I was looking at.
And just like you describe in your article, I don't want to "color"
the answer by having an answer preselected, nor do I want the user
to accidentally fail to click on it, and guess they wanted the first
choice.
Ideally, i also don't want to present an extra (neutral) choice either
because it will look messy.
But I'm probably being a spaz anyway, since I'm probably the last
Lynx user (and of course that's only when I know i can count on it --
like *content* oriented sites). With Firefox it worked fine.
Thanks!
In article
"Jukka K. Korpela"
> Scripsit Beauregard T. Shagnasty:
>
> > I know... you missed the winking smiley.
>
> No, I simply ignore smileys as garbage, since they are garbage. The only
> thing that can be deduced from a smiley is that the writer might not mean
> what he writes, but we know that without a smiley, too.
Smileys can be used as a concession to ease the severity with
which some earthlings take things.
--
dorayme
Scripsit dorayme:
> Smileys can be used as a concession to ease the severity with
> which some earthlings take things.
Smileys are just as vague and deceptive as smiling is. Never trust a smiling
cat, or a smiley.
ObHTML: What are the six ways of using smileys in HTML authoring? They are:
1) The ":-)" method.
2) Ditto with ....
3) As 2) but with CSS code with a font-family setting, so that most users
might see the characters the way you mean.
4) Unicode characters for smileys.
5) Images.
6) The correct way: don't use 'em.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
In article
"Jukka K. Korpela"
> Scripsit dorayme:
>
> > Smileys can be used as a concession to ease the severity with
> > which some earthlings take things.
>
> Smileys are just as vague and deceptive as smiling is. Never trust a smiling
> cat, or a smiley.
>
> ObHTML: What are the six ways of using smileys in HTML authoring? They are:
> 1) The ":-)" method.
> 2) Ditto with ....
> 3) As 2) but with CSS code with a font-family setting, so that most users
> might see the characters the way you mean.
> 4) Unicode characters for smileys.
> 5) Images.
> 6) The correct way: don't use 'em.
When I joined this group, I never used them much preferring to
keep a straight face like Bob Hope after his one liners.
But then I noticed that Els was very nice and popular and
everyone was nice to her and she used various clear signals like
smileys and I thought maybe that is the way to go. maybe that was
the secret. A martian just looks around and sees what others do.
But I continued to be hated and shunned and killfiled. Nothing
worked. So now I just put them in or not as I feel like it
without much hope or fervour.
I will try a period of straight face and see how I feel.
--
dorayme
dorayme wrote:
> But then I noticed that Els was very nice and popular and
> everyone was nice to her and she used various clear signals like
> smileys and I thought maybe that is the way to go. maybe that was
> the secret.
Yeah, and you see what happened to her! That should teach you.
--
John
In article <464d7129$1_5@news.bluewin.ch>,
John Hosking
> dorayme wrote:
>
> > But then I noticed that Els was very nice and popular and
> > everyone was nice to her and she used various clear signals like
> > smileys and I thought maybe that is the way to go. Maybe that was
> > the secret.
>
> Yeah, and you see what happened to her! That should teach you.
What happened? I hope you are joking and not about to tell me bad
news.
--
dorayme
dorayme wrote:
> In article <464d7129$1_5@news.bluewin.ch>,
> John Hosking
>
>> dorayme wrote:
>>
>>> But then I noticed that Els was very nice and popular and
>>> everyone was nice to her and she used various clear signals like
>>> smileys and I thought maybe that is the way to go. Maybe that was
>>> the secret.
>> Yeah, and you see what happened to her! That should teach you.
>
> What happened? I hope you are joking and not about to tell me bad
> news.
>
No, I don't know of any bad news. I just meant she doesn't show up much
anymore. Probably busy paying attention to her kids, or something
ridiculous like that.
--
John
In article <464fbaef_3@news.bluewin.ch>,
John Hosking
> dorayme wrote:
> > In article <464d7129$1_5@news.bluewin.ch>,
> > John Hosking
> >
> >> dorayme wrote:
> >>
> >>> But then I noticed that Els was very nice and popular and
> >>> everyone was nice to her and she used various clear signals like
> >>> smileys and I thought maybe that is the way to go. Maybe that was
> >>> the secret.
> >> Yeah, and you see what happened to her! That should teach you.
> >
> > What happened? I hope you are joking and not about to tell me bad
> > news.
> >
> No, I don't know of any bad news. I just meant she doesn't show up much
> anymore. Probably busy paying attention to her kids, or something
> ridiculous like that.
I don't think so. More likely paying attention to business. She
is quite talented.
As kids grow up, you pay less actual attention to them because
they are not so sweet and captive. You still go on worrying about
them, but you do this without them even better than with them.
--
dorayme