Out of the Pond

Please direct us to another posting board if this is an inappropriate
listing.
We're totally frustrated end users working with an international
retail company. We work in marketing, advertising.

We work in a very secure network with unbelievable constraints. To
protect the accounting department's databases we in the creative
section are unable to perform basic operations. Downloading software.
Adding the printers. Inserting usb devices. We are unable to start an
online retail business because of "security." We cannot take online
college courses. We are unable to explore opportunities using blogs.
We are prevented from checking out retail opportunities on MySpace,
and You Tube. We thought all these marketing business exploits would
be basic, normal internet activities. Just the usual day to day
operations in retail.

Here in this corporate office it's all convoluted passwords, secured
emails, and very limited internet site exploration. In the past month
the company was shut down twice because of hackers infiltrating the
business. Suspicious packets? Security specialist are paid to come in
and fix the compromised system. It's completely annoying. It's as
though the creative end is held hostage not from the outside hacking
violation but from the networking department.

A fellow worker thought why not just sign up for a Dsl service and run
a connection into our department. The cost for this would be around
$40.00 monthly. We have all those spare computers, monitors, hardward,
and so forth so the only cost to the company would be for a Dsl
connection.

We would be completely independent from the corporate network. No more
files sharing, print sharing, firewall security, changing passwords,
and so on. We would have two to four computers running on this
alternate connection. We would be able to do our work, unfettered,
without restraints.

We are so frustrated. One would have thought the network
administrators would have thought of this very simple arrangement. We
just want to get our job done. Create an online retail presence. Get
involved with the current technologies such as MySpace and YouTube.
Get savvy with integrated social networking. We need to think 'out of
the box' and somehow get out there into the internet ocean. This
marketing pond we are housed within is becoming very stagnant.

I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
the internet retail experience.

Re: Out of the Pond

In article <1180748430.297279.10380@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
blablababa@yahoo.com says...
> I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
> independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
> the internet retail experience.

Your account department could sit behind its own firewall and your other
departments could share services - if it's done right, the firewall will
not hinder accounting while blocking the rest of the company from
compromising accounting.

All of the security functions are good, but, it sounds like you have a
lot of idiots that don't understand this is COMPANY RESOURCES and
COMPANY NETWORK and want to do what the company has not permitted - when
at work don't do anything except work.

--
Want to know what PCBUTTS1 is really about?
*** WARNING - these links contain foul/pornographic content of an
abusive nature created by PCBUTTS1 and still hosted on his public
website ***
http://www.pcbutts1.com/rlk/rlk.htm Exposed to Kids ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/license.htm Exposed to Kids ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/max.htm Exposed to Kids ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/mpv.htm Exposed to Kids ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/wtcpcb.htm Exposed to Kids ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/cracks.htm Exposed to Kids ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/Loutheasshole.htm REMOVED ,
http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads/bughunters.htm Exposed to Kids ...
All while spamming his company website at: http://www.seedsv.com

Re: Out of the Pond

Chu Rey writes:

> Please direct us to another posting board if this is an inappropriate
> listing.
> We're totally frustrated end users working with an international
> retail company. We work in marketing, advertising.
>
> We work in a very secure network with unbelievable constraints. To
> protect the accounting department's databases we in the creative
> section are unable to perform basic operations.

Sounds like your network architecture rather sucks and needs to be
tiered into layers of increasing security.

> Downloading software. Adding the printers. Inserting usb
> devices. We are unable to start an online retail business because of
> "security." We cannot take online college courses. We are unable to
> explore opportunities using blogs. We are prevented from checking
> out retail opportunities on MySpace, and You Tube. We thought all
> these marketing business exploits would be basic, normal internet
> activities. Just the usual day to day operations in retail.
>
> Here in this corporate office it's all convoluted passwords, secured
> emails, and very limited internet site exploration. In the past month
> the company was shut down twice because of hackers infiltrating the
> business. Suspicious packets? Security specialist are paid to come in
> and fix the compromised system. It's completely annoying. It's as
> though the creative end is held hostage not from the outside hacking
> violation but from the networking department.
>
> A fellow worker thought why not just sign up for a Dsl service and run
> a connection into our department. The cost for this would be around
> $40.00 monthly. We have all those spare computers, monitors, hardward,
> and so forth so the only cost to the company would be for a Dsl
> connection.
>
> We would be completely independent from the corporate network. No more
> files sharing, print sharing, firewall security, changing passwords,
> and so on. We would have two to four computers running on this
> alternate connection. We would be able to do our work, unfettered,
> without restraints.

It's not a bad plan provided those machines really do operate
completely separately from the company LAN, and even if those 4
machines were infected to the hilt, no business impact would be seen
on your lan, then fine.


> We are so frustrated. One would have thought the network
> administrators would have thought of this very simple
> arrangement. We just want to get our job done. Create an online
> retail presence. Get involved with the current technologies such as
> MySpace and YouTube. Get savvy with integrated social
> networking. We need to think 'out of the box' and somehow get out
> there into the internet ocean. This marketing pond we are housed
> within is becoming very stagnant.
>
> I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a
> line, independent of the corporate network, so we can fully
> participate in the internet retail experience.

Plausible, reasonable, not terribly unheard of actually.

However, the same sort of arrangement can be made with a tiered
network architecture but it doesn't sound like the network folks are
free enough from firefighting survival mode with recent exploit and
incident activity to exactly be in the business of opening things
further. Even with all their restrictions, they seem to be having
quite a struggle with keeping incidents from occurring.

So your tack of going completely independent with DSL is both
technically and politically perhaps the path of least resistance.

But the key is to keep them independent of corporate systems. No
shuffling USB fobs back and forth, no VPN-ing into the corporate
network, etc. Otherwise, you still have many worries.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Re: Out of the Pond

On 2007-06-02, Chu Rey wrote:
> Please direct us to another posting board if this is an inappropriate
> listing.
> We're totally frustrated end users working with an international
> retail company. We work in marketing, advertising.
>
> We work in a very secure network with unbelievable constraints. To
> protect the accounting department's databases we in the creative
> section are unable to perform basic operations. Downloading software.
> Adding the printers. Inserting usb devices. We are unable to start an
> online retail business because of "security." We cannot take online
> college courses. We are unable to explore opportunities using blogs.
> We are prevented from checking out retail opportunities on MySpace,
> and You Tube. We thought all these marketing business exploits would
> be basic, normal internet activities. Just the usual day to day
> operations in retail.
>
> Here in this corporate office it's all convoluted passwords, secured
> emails, and very limited internet site exploration. In the past month
> the company was shut down twice because of hackers infiltrating the
> business. Suspicious packets? Security specialist are paid to come in
> and fix the compromised system. It's completely annoying. It's as
> though the creative end is held hostage not from the outside hacking
> violation but from the networking department.
>
> A fellow worker thought why not just sign up for a Dsl service and run
> a connection into our department. The cost for this would be around
> $40.00 monthly. We have all those spare computers, monitors, hardward,
> and so forth so the only cost to the company would be for a Dsl
> connection.
>
> We would be completely independent from the corporate network. No more
> files sharing, print sharing, firewall security, changing passwords,
> and so on. We would have two to four computers running on this
> alternate connection. We would be able to do our work, unfettered,
> without restraints.
>
> We are so frustrated. One would have thought the network
> administrators would have thought of this very simple arrangement. We
> just want to get our job done. Create an online retail presence. Get
> involved with the current technologies such as MySpace and YouTube.
> Get savvy with integrated social networking. We need to think 'out of
> the box' and somehow get out there into the internet ocean. This
> marketing pond we are housed within is becoming very stagnant.
>
> I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
> independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
> the internet retail experience.

What company do you work for?

--
Russell Wood

Re: Out of the Pond

Thanks for the responses. In the retail world especially in
advertising and online sales our marketing department needs to be
competitive. We know other online retail competitors are fully taking
advantage of available internet resources. Marketing creates, invents,
and packages a viable commercial product. Even upper tier management
feels the constraints and restrictions implemented by our
resourcefully thorough network personal. Privately the corporate
bosses complain -and have even opinioned that they feel held hostage
by this tightened security.

We can do our work but it's really with tied hands. For example if an
advertising agent creates a mini promo setting it up on YouTube we
have to go over to one of our retail stores to view the presentation!
If a client needs to ftp a portfolio into our corporate office that's
not permitted because ftp is disabled. We use an online file storage
client for this function. It's really counterproductive. If we had
that additional line, independent of the corporate network, we would
be exponential freer to execute our marketing skills. We need to know
in real time what is unfolding in the retail world. It's a simple
request.

It's a stations. In the current situation we have three channels. 2;
4; 7. What we need is the full sweep of channels -from 1- 150. This
would give us complete functionality. Yes we can work within the
constraints for 2,4,7. But it is very limiting.
Thanks
On Jun 2, 5:44 am, Russell Wood wrote:
> On 2007-06-02, Chu Rey wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Please direct us to another posting board if this is an inappropriate
> > listing.
> > We're totally frustrated end users working with an international
> > retail company. We work in marketing, advertising.
>
> > We work in a very secure network with unbelievable constraints. To
> > protect the accounting department's databases we in the creative
> > section are unable to perform basic operations. Downloading software.
> > Adding the printers. Inserting usb devices. We are unable to start an
> > online retail business because of "security." We cannot take online
> > college courses. We are unable to explore opportunities using blogs.
> > We are prevented from checking out retail opportunities on MySpace,
> > and You Tube. We thought all these marketing business exploits would
> > be basic, normal internet activities. Just the usual day to day
> > operations in retail.
>
> > Here in this corporate office it's all convoluted passwords, secured
> > emails, and very limited internet site exploration. In the past month
> > the company was shut down twice because of hackers infiltrating the
> > business. Suspicious packets? Security specialist are paid to come in
> > and fix the compromised system. It's completely annoying. It's as
> > though the creative end is held hostage not from the outside hacking
> > violation but from the networking department.
>
> > A fellow worker thought why not just sign up for a Dsl service and run
> > a connection into our department. The cost for this would be around
> > $40.00 monthly. We have all those spare computers, monitors, hardward,
> > and so forth so the only cost to the company would be for a Dsl
> > connection.
>
> > We would be completely independent from the corporate network. No more
> > files sharing, print sharing, firewall security, changing passwords,
> > and so on. We would have two to four computers running on this
> > alternate connection. We would be able to do our work, unfettered,
> > without restraints.
>
> > We are so frustrated. One would have thought the network
> > administrators would have thought of this very simple arrangement. We
> > just want to get our job done. Create an online retail presence. Get
> > involved with the current technologies such as MySpace and YouTube.
> > Get savvy with integrated social networking. We need to think 'out of
> > the box' and somehow get out there into the internet ocean. This
> > marketing pond we are housed within is becoming very stagnant.
>
> > I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
> > independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
> > the internet retail experience.
>
> What company do you work for?
>
> --
> Russell Wood - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the responses. In the retail world especially in
advertising and online sales our marketing department needs to be
competitive. We know other online retail competitors are fully taking
advantage of available internet resources. Marketing creates, invents,
and packages a viable commercial product. Even upper tier management
feels the constraints and restrictions implemented by our
resourcefully thorough network personal. Privately the corporate
bosses complain -and have even opinioned that they feel held hostage
by this tightened security.

We can do our work but it's really with tied hands. For example if an
advertising agent creates a mini promo setting it up on YouTube we
have to go over to one of our retail stores to view the presentation!
If a client needs to ftp a portfolio into our corporate office that's
not permitted because ftp is disabled. We use an online file storage
client for this function. It's really counterproductive. If we had
that additional line, independent of the corporate network, we would
be exponential freer to execute our marketing skills. We need to know
in real time what is unfolding in the retail world. It's a simple
request.

It's a stations. In the current situation we have three channels. 2;
4; 7. What we need is the full sweep of channels -from 1- 150. This
would give us complete functionality. Yes we can work within the
constraints for 2,4,7. But it is very limiting.
Thanks

Re: Out of the Pond

"Chu Rey" wrote in message
news:1180748430.297279.10380@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
> independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
> the internet retail experience.

You would probably be fired, and rightly so. While IN THEORY it is
separate, it might stay that way for a week. After that, you will need some
data from another system, you will connect a flash drive, that gets clumsy
so one of the boxes gets a second network port to connect to the other
network, and you have comprimised the company's network. The crap shoot is
whether someone is bright enough to fire you before you do real damage.

All those annoying IT rules are there for a reason. There are almost
certainly ways to do what needs to be done, but I suspect you think they are
too expensive/clumsy because the stupid I/T people insist on doing it
safely. They also make you follow all these stupid rules to keep the company
from getting sued.

A strong clue is your repeated use of the word creative. I/T has its
creative types too, they are out there trying to write the next great video
game on company time. Don't even think about using that word around
management. They know what it means.

Make a business case for what you need to do. Companies aren't bottomless
money buckets -- they spend based on anticipated business results. Present
your case to management, if you can make them money then they will put in
place the systems and processes that you need. If you can't make them
money, then you have no business doing it. Think of doing something that
will make money.

Setting up your own little I/T shop is risking A LOT of the company's money,
perhaps even the company's existence. If you do it, you should be fired for
cause. Full stop.

...

Re: Out of the Pond

In article ,
xpyttl wrote:

In general, I agree with your response. But this one section:

>A strong clue is your repeated use of the word creative. I/T has its
>creative types too, they are out there trying to write the next great video
>game on company time.


WTF??

Running the computer systems can call for a lot of creativity --
coming up with ways to minimize risk and minimize downtime,
analyzing situations and coming up with practical multi-stage plans,
building robust monitoring and analysis infrastructure when the company
won't shell out for real monitoring or analysis software, finding new ways
to reuse existing systems when the company won't invest in new servers.

When I was systems/network/security administrator, our group was less
than half the size of the national average for an organization that size,
but our network uptime was twice the national average for "well
managed network facilities", and my budget was the only one in
the organization that consistantly fell (and fell significantly.) It took
a lot of creativity to pull that off.

Re: Out of the Pond

"Walter Roberson" wrote in message
news:c3j8i.255577$6m4.14092@pd7urf1no...

> Running the computer systems can call for a lot of creativity --
> coming up with ways to minimize risk and minimize downtime,

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. Creativity is a key part of any knowledge
worker's job. And although developers may sometimes look down on operations
types as drones, the job, as you point out, can take more creativity.

But among computer guys, especially developers, claims about how creative
pursuits are different and need different resources is another way of saying
"don't expect me to produce anything useful". OK, they don't MEAN to say
that, but that is how it is read.

I don't doubt that OP's role requires creativity, but when someone harps on
the creativity required, and how the corporation doesn't permit it, that is
usually a signal that he doesn't understand what the job is supposed to
entail.

...

Re: Out of the Pond

In article ,
Walter Roberson wrote:

>but our network uptime was twice the national average for "well
>managed network facilities",

Re-reading, I see that that would likely be interpreted fairly
differently that what I was thinking at the time I wrote it.

I wrote that our network uptime was twice a particular average;
what I should more properly have said was that our network downtime
was half of that particular average. Considering that reducing downtime
gets exponentially harder as you improve, my use of "twice" was
pretty meaningless. :(

Re: Out of the Pond

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
, xpyttl wrote:

>"Chu Rey" wrote

>> I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
>> independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
>> the internet retail experience.
>
>You would probably be fired, and rightly so. While IN THEORY it is
>separate, it might stay that way for a week. After that, you will need some
>data from another system, you will connect a flash drive, that gets clumsy
>so one of the boxes gets a second network port to connect to the other
>network, and you have comprimised the company's network. The crap shoot is
>whether someone is bright enough to fire you before you do real damage.

I tried to stay out of this one, but we do have a number (I can think of
sixteen) independent systems in this facility. They are located in the
employee break areas and cafeteria, and are on their own physical network
with a router doing NAT and connecting to an ISP. These boxes are owned
and the ISP connection paid for, by the employee association. Not only do
they _not_ have a network connection directly or indirectly to any of the
company networks, they also lack removable media. There are no floppies,
CDs, DVDs, or USB ports. The systems in the cafeteria share access to a
single laser printer. The boxes themselves are physically locked, and (as
they run a UNIX variant like all other systems in the facility) the users
have access ONLY via a common, unprivileged ("guest") account. The
employees can check mail, surf to non-job-related sites, use search
engines, etc. to their hearts content, subject to monitoring by other
employees who want to use the systems (are you finished yet"?). When the
user logs out, the user's files (which would include cookies, history,
cache, and anything that might have been downloaded) are wiped. As far
as the rest goes, there are NO privately owned computers (indeed, most
electronic devices INCLUDING cell phones) permitted - none.

>All those annoying IT rules are there for a reason. There are almost
>certainly ways to do what needs to be done, but I suspect you think they are
>too expensive/clumsy because the stupid I/T people insist on doing it
>safely. They also make you follow all these stupid rules to keep the company
>from getting sued.

I was curious how the O/P's ability to "take online college courses"
somehow relates to being able to do the job.

>Make a business case for what you need to do.

The fact that this appears to be ignored, as well as the extremely risky
things the O/P wants to do pretty much indicates that they know that
management won't approve (never mind I/T). "We have all those spare
computers, monitors, hardward, and so forth so the only cost to the
company would be for a Dsl connection." is another indication that they
have no concept of computers or costs. In our case, the company is
supplying electrical power, physical space, and paper for that printer
(isn't really cost effective to have the employee association do so),
and I/T handles the maintenance under a re-bill agreement.

Old guy

Re: Out of the Pond

> The fact that this appears to be ignored, as well as the extremely risky
> things the O/P wants to do pretty much indicates that they know that
> management won't approve (never mind I/T). "We have all those spare
> computers, monitors, hardward, and so forth so the only cost to the
> company would be for a Dsl connection." is another indication that they
> have no concept of computers or costs. In our case, the company is
> supplying electrical power, physical space, and paper for that printer
> (isn't really cost effective to have the employee association do so),
> and I/T handles the maintenance under a re-bill agreement.
>
> Old guy

Of course mgmt wouldn't approve it, why else do you think they are in
a newsgroup and are asking for ideas, or asking for justification to
be creative?

RedForeman

Re: Out of the Pond

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.security.misc, in article
<1180963523.694430.267800@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, RedForeman wrote:

>> The fact that this appears to be ignored, as well as the extremely risky
>> things the O/P wants to do pretty much indicates that they know that
>> management won't approve (never mind I/T).

>Of course mgmt wouldn't approve it, why else do you think they are in
>a newsgroup and are asking for ideas, or asking for justification to
>be creative?

creative
adj.1. Having the ability or power to create. 2. Productive; creating.
3. Characterized by originality and expressiveness; imaginative
noun. One who displays productive originality

Yup - lacking originality does tend to say they aren't very creative.
What's worse is that they can't even be bothered to do the research (if
they had bothered to search the archives of this group, they would have
known their request might not be received well).

Old guy

Re: Out of the Pond

"Moe Trin" wrote in message
news:slrnf68r4d.60k.ibuprofin@compton.phx.az.us...

> they had bothered to search the archives of this group, they would have
> known their request might not be received well).

Perhaps it would have been kinder to send them to alt.2600 in the first
place

...

Re: Out of the Pond

Chu Rey wrote:
> Please direct us to another posting board if this is an inappropriate
> listing.
> We're totally frustrated end users working with an international
> retail company. We work in marketing, advertising.
>
> We work in a very secure network with unbelievable constraints. To
> protect the accounting department's databases we in the creative
> section are unable to perform basic operations. Downloading software.
> Adding the printers. Inserting usb devices. We are unable to start an
> online retail business because of "security." We cannot take online
> college courses. We are unable to explore opportunities using blogs.
> We are prevented from checking out retail opportunities on MySpace,
> and You Tube. We thought all these marketing business exploits would
> be basic, normal internet activities. Just the usual day to day
> operations in retail.
>
> Here in this corporate office it's all convoluted passwords, secured
> emails, and very limited internet site exploration. In the past month
> the company was shut down twice because of hackers infiltrating the
> business. Suspicious packets? Security specialist are paid to come in
> and fix the compromised system. It's completely annoying. It's as
> though the creative end is held hostage not from the outside hacking
> violation but from the networking department.
>
> A fellow worker thought why not just sign up for a Dsl service and run
> a connection into our department. The cost for this would be around
> $40.00 monthly. We have all those spare computers, monitors, hardward,
> and so forth so the only cost to the company would be for a Dsl
> connection.
>
> We would be completely independent from the corporate network. No more
> files sharing, print sharing, firewall security, changing passwords,
> and so on. We would have two to four computers running on this
> alternate connection. We would be able to do our work, unfettered,
> without restraints.
>
> We are so frustrated. One would have thought the network
> administrators would have thought of this very simple arrangement. We
> just want to get our job done. Create an online retail presence. Get
> involved with the current technologies such as MySpace and YouTube.
> Get savvy with integrated social networking. We need to think 'out of
> the box' and somehow get out there into the internet ocean. This
> marketing pond we are housed within is becoming very stagnant.
>
> I would appreciate feedback on the plausibility of bringing in a line,
> independent of the corporate network, so we can fully participate in
> the internet retail experience.

You would get your ass fired. In fact, I'd be willing to come and fire you
myself for subversion against the company.

Work with your IT department. If you have a need and they're not fulfilling
it, then go to their managers and yours. Take it up the chain until either
your ideas are shot down, or their stupidity is reined in.