Don"t submit form on Enter button

Who knows how to prevent submitting a form on the press Enter button before
all fields on the form are filled up.
People just enter the first field hit Enter and it submits the form and
doing validation,
of course flushing with the bunch of messages because rest of the fields are
empty.
I remember I had some pages where wrote the code to go on the next field
when pressed the Enter button (Tab like), because it didn't go anywhere at
all.
Tested it on a few machines, same result.

Thanks,
Michael

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"MichaelK" wrote in message
news:Of6V0UowHHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Who knows how to prevent submitting a form on the press Enter button
before
> all fields on the form are filled up.
> People just enter the first field hit Enter and it submits the form and
> doing validation,
> of course flushing with the bunch of messages because rest of the fields
are
> empty.
> I remember I had some pages where wrote the code to go on the next field
> when pressed the Enter button (Tab like), because it didn't go anywhere at
> all.
> Tested it on a few machines, same result.
>

Tab is the standard 'next field' button. Do not use enter for this
operation. To avoid submit on enter add code to the onclick event of the
the submit button. Return false if not all fields are filled in.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

It's still going to fire up submit on every Enter and run the code.

Michael

"Anthony Jones" wrote in message
news:uLONbBtwHHA.3340@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "MichaelK" wrote in message
> news:Of6V0UowHHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Who knows how to prevent submitting a form on the press Enter button
> before
>> all fields on the form are filled up.
>> People just enter the first field hit Enter and it submits the form and
>> doing validation,
>> of course flushing with the bunch of messages because rest of the fields
> are
>> empty.
>> I remember I had some pages where wrote the code to go on the next field
>> when pressed the Enter button (Tab like), because it didn't go anywhere
>> at
>> all.
>> Tested it on a few machines, same result.
>>
>
> Tab is the standard 'next field' button. Do not use enter for this
> operation. To avoid submit on enter add code to the onclick event of the
> the submit button. Return false if not all fields are filled in.
>
> --
> Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
>
>

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

[Please don't toppost on USENET]

MichaelK wrote:
>> ...To avoid submit on enter add code to the onclick event of the
>> the submit button. Return false if not all fields are filled in.
>
> It's still going to fire up submit on every Enter and run the code.

That is directly contradicted by what Anthony wrote. Returning [false]
cancels the event.


--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Dave Anderson wrote:
> [Please don't toppost on USENET]
>
> MichaelK wrote:
>>> ...To avoid submit on enter add code to the onclick event of the
>>> the submit button. Return false if not all fields are filled in.
>>
>> It's still going to fire up submit on every Enter and run the code.
>
> That is directly contradicted by what Anthony wrote. Returning [false]
> cancels the event.

I think he was objecting to the fact that the code to check the field values
and cancel the event would run every time the Enter key was pressed, to
which my reply would be: so what? Whatever you do to change the meaning of
the Enter keypress will need to run every time the Enter key is pressed. An
alternative is to use the document's onkeypress event to change the keycode
from 13 (Enter) to 9 (tab). Post to a client-side scripting group such as
microsoft.public.scripting.jscript if you need help with this.


--
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
"NO SPAM"

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
news:OS1$xB1wHHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Dave Anderson wrote:
> > [Please don't toppost on USENET]
> >
> > MichaelK wrote:
> >>> ...To avoid submit on enter add code to the onclick event of the
> >>> the submit button. Return false if not all fields are filled in.
> >>
> >> It's still going to fire up submit on every Enter and run the code.
> >
> > That is directly contradicted by what Anthony wrote. Returning [false]
> > cancels the event.
>
> I think he was objecting to the fact that the code to check the field
values
> and cancel the event would run every time the Enter key was pressed, to
> which my reply would be: so what? Whatever you do to change the meaning of
> the Enter keypress will need to run every time the Enter key is pressed.
An
> alternative is to use the document's onkeypress event to change the
keycode
> from 13 (Enter) to 9 (tab). Post to a client-side scripting group such as
> microsoft.public.scripting.jscript if you need help with this.
>
>

The enter key simply initiates the default button. In a HTML form that is
the submit button.
By making making the submit input into an ordinary button there is no
default button Hence enter does not submit the form.

I was also steering the OP away from changing the behaviour of the Enter
button. The standard field navigation button is the tab button.



--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Thanks guys for responds.
I already figured it out.
Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this problem long
long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.

About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for our
internal data entry people,
and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter every
time and use Tab instead.
So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next entry field.

Happy coding guys.
Michael

"Anthony Jones" wrote in message
news:elX%23Jj7wHHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> "Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
> news:OS1$xB1wHHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Dave Anderson wrote:
>> > [Please don't toppost on USENET]
>> >
>> > MichaelK wrote:
>> >>> ...To avoid submit on enter add code to the onclick event of the
>> >>> the submit button. Return false if not all fields are filled in.
>> >>
>> >> It's still going to fire up submit on every Enter and run the code.
>> >
>> > That is directly contradicted by what Anthony wrote. Returning [false]
>> > cancels the event.
>>
>> I think he was objecting to the fact that the code to check the field
> values
>> and cancel the event would run every time the Enter key was pressed, to
>> which my reply would be: so what? Whatever you do to change the meaning
>> of
>> the Enter keypress will need to run every time the Enter key is pressed.
> An
>> alternative is to use the document's onkeypress event to change the
> keycode
>> from 13 (Enter) to 9 (tab). Post to a client-side scripting group such as
>> microsoft.public.scripting.jscript if you need help with this.
>>
>>
>
> The enter key simply initiates the default button. In a HTML form that is
> the submit button.
> By making making the submit input into an ordinary button there is no
> default button Hence enter does not submit the form.
>
> I was also steering the OP away from changing the behaviour of the Enter
> button. The standard field navigation button is the tab button.
>
>
>
> --
> Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
>
>

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"MichaelK" wrote in message
news:uL0waj%23wHHA.4332@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Thanks guys for responds.
> I already figured it out.
> Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this problem
long
> long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
> Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
>
> About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for our
> internal data entry people,
> and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter every
> time and use Tab instead.
> So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next entry
field.

Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use the
enter button. If you perpetuate that it may be fine for this application but
still continue to be a source of confusion for them the when using other
applications. A better approach would be a bit of training, they'll get
used it.


--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:

> Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
> the enter button. If you perpetuate that it may be fine for this
> application but still continue to be a source of confusion for them
> the when using other applications. A better approach would be a bit
> of training, they'll get used it.
>

Like [IE example]:

onkeypress=
'if (event.keyCode==13){
alert("Get used to not to use here, stupid!");
alert("I expected that question. Why not use ");
return false;
};'
>

?

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Evertjan." wrote in message
news:Xns996B68DDC5D0Beejj99@194.109.133.242...
> Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
> microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:
>
> > Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
> > the enter button. If you perpetuate that it may be fine for this
> > application but still continue to be a source of confusion for them
> > the when using other applications. A better approach would be a bit
> > of training, they'll get used it.
> >
>
> Like [IE example]:
>
> > onkeypress=
> 'if (event.keyCode==13){
> alert("Get used to not to use here, stupid!");
> alert("I expected that question. Why not use ");
> return false;
> };'
> >
>
> ?
>


That would not be my prefered way to do it.

I would book a conference room with a projector and show them a number of
applications which demonstrate that the tab is the industry wide field
navigation button. Apologise prefusely to them for having them use an
application in the past that did not conform to this standard and could they
please use the tab button from now on.

Be sure not to make them feel stupid, the fault lies with the management not
them.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:

>
> "Evertjan." wrote in message
> news:Xns996B68DDC5D0Beejj99@194.109.133.242...
>> Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
>> microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:
>>
>> > Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to
>> > use the enter button. If you perpetuate that it may be fine for
>> > this application but still continue to be a source of confusion for
>> > them the when using other applications. A better approach would be
>> > a bit of training, they'll get used it.
>> >
>>
>> Like [IE example]:
>>
>> >> onkeypress=
>> 'if (event.keyCode==13){
>> alert("Get used to not to use here, stupid!");
>> alert("I expected that question. Why not use ");
>> return false;
>> };'
>> >
>>
>> ?
>
> That would not be my prefered way to do it.
>
> I would book a conference room with a projector and show them a number
> of applications which demonstrate that the tab is the industry wide
> field navigation button. Apologise prefusely to them for having them
> use an application in the past that did not conform to this standard
> and could they please use the tab button from now on.
>
> Be sure not to make them feel stupid, the fault lies with the
> management not them.

An expensive way to teach them and have them not feel stupid, Anthony.

Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a mighty
strong incentive for a steep learning curve.

Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third ?

My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
projector" happening to notice.

However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute politeness
is, your idea might eventually work.


--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Evertjan." wrote in message
news:Xns996B7570F9904eejj99@194.109.133.242...
> Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
> microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:
>
> >
> > "Evertjan." wrote in message
> > news:Xns996B68DDC5D0Beejj99@194.109.133.242...
> >> Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
> >> microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:
> >>
> >> > Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to
> >> > use the enter button. If you perpetuate that it may be fine for
> >> > this application but still continue to be a source of confusion for
> >> > them the when using other applications. A better approach would be
> >> > a bit of training, they'll get used it.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Like [IE example]:
> >>
> >> > >> onkeypress=
> >> 'if (event.keyCode==13){
> >> alert("Get used to not to use here, stupid!");
> >> alert("I expected that question. Why not use ");
> >> return false;
> >> };'
> >> >
> >>
> >> ?
> >
> > That would not be my prefered way to do it.
> >
> > I would book a conference room with a projector and show them a number
> > of applications which demonstrate that the tab is the industry wide
> > field navigation button. Apologise prefusely to them for having them
> > use an application in the past that did not conform to this standard
> > and could they please use the tab button from now on.
> >
> > Be sure not to make them feel stupid, the fault lies with the
> > management not them.
>
> An expensive way to teach them and have them not feel stupid, Anthony.
>
> Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a mighty
> strong incentive for a steep learning curve.

What does that mean??

>
> Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third ?
>

If the OP follows my suggestion on the code tweaks nothing happens when
enter is hit.

If he also takes the time to explain respectfully how and why the new
interface is different no one ever needs to be called stupid, especially not
by a mere computer.

> My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
> and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
> buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
> projector" happening to notice.
>
> However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute politeness
> is, your idea might eventually work.
>

Since I have actually managed people and have had to do things similar to
that in the past I can tell you it isn't expensive or pointless and it does
work. People should treat people with respect, computers should treat
people like gods.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote:
> "MichaelK" wrote in message
> news:uL0waj%23wHHA.4332@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Thanks guys for responds.
>> I already figured it out.
>> Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
>> problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
>> Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
>>
>> About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
>> our internal data entry people,
>> and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
>> every time and use Tab instead.
>> So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
>> entry field.
>
> Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
> the enter button.

?
Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for field/cell
navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new line, not Tab.
:-) It sounds like you turned on your first computer to a browser and ran
nothing except that for your entire computing life ... ;-)
--
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
"NO SPAM"

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:

>> Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a
>> mighty strong incentive for a steep learning curve.
>
> What does that mean??

Seems I cann't help you there.

>> Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third ?
>>
>
> If the OP follows my suggestion on the code tweaks nothing happens
> when enter is hit.
>
> If he also takes the time to explain respectfully how and why the new
> interface is different no one ever needs to be called stupid,
> especially not by a mere computer.
>
>> My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
>> and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
>> buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
>> projector" happening to notice.
>>
>> However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute
>> politeness is, your idea might eventually work.
>>
>
> Since I have actually managed people and have had to do things similar
> to that in the past I can tell you it isn't expensive or pointless and
> it does work. People should treat people with respect, computers
> should treat people like gods.

Wow, then we should not take the most used OS as an example.

I suppose you also tried to do it the way I suggested,
or else you wouldn't know from experience.

btw, do you expect everyone to be serious? ;-)


--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
news:uZB9hSHxHHA.3328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Anthony Jones wrote:
> > "MichaelK" wrote in message
> > news:uL0waj%23wHHA.4332@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >> Thanks guys for responds.
> >> I already figured it out.
> >> Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
> >> problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
> >> Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
> >>
> >> About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
> >> our internal data entry people,
> >> and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
> >> every time and use Tab instead.
> >> So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
> >> entry field.
> >
> > Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
> > the enter button.
>
> ?
> Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for field/cell
> navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new line, not Tab.

None of the above are good analogies of standard computer form based system.

In Word the tab key follows the same function that it does on a typewriter.
It moves to the next tab stop.
Pressing enter or return starts a new line similar to what happens in on a
typewriter. There is no concept here of the next field or control to move
to.

In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right. Again with
its origins on the typewriter this is natural. If you do that a few times
and hit enter see what happens, it goes to the cell under the cell which you
were in when you first started your series of tabs. It is true that enter
can move to the next cell on the right if the that seems to be what you want
currently. But it can also will move you to the row. It just makes enter
key behaviour quirky and less predictable.

However open any dialog on these apps and hit enter what happens? Compare
that with hitting Tab in those dialogs? (In fact you can click in one of
the tool bar embedded controls and try the same tests). The truth is nearly
every windows app that displays an actionable set of controls uses enter to
submit (if it has a default button) and tab to move between controls.

> :-) It sounds like you turned on your first computer to a browser and ran
> nothing except that for your entire computing life ... ;-)

Actually my first experience of this pre-dates windows. Big-iron IBM
systems for Bill of Materials and stock control. The old 3270 terminals
would again use tab to move between the fields and enter to submit the page.
It is this standard that Windows adopted and MS published in design
guidelines. It has become the industry accepted standard.

I know I am _that_ old. ;)


--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Evertjan." wrote in message
news:Xns996B85E699E28eejj99@194.109.133.242...
> Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
> microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:
>
> >> Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a
> >> mighty strong incentive for a steep learning curve.
> >
> > What does that mean??
>
> Seems I cann't help you there.
>
> >> Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third ?
> >>
> >
> > If the OP follows my suggestion on the code tweaks nothing happens
> > when enter is hit.
> >
> > If he also takes the time to explain respectfully how and why the new
> > interface is different no one ever needs to be called stupid,
> > especially not by a mere computer.
> >
> >> My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
> >> and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
> >> buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
> >> projector" happening to notice.
> >>
> >> However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute
> >> politeness is, your idea might eventually work.
> >>
> >
> > Since I have actually managed people and have had to do things similar
> > to that in the past I can tell you it isn't expensive or pointless and
> > it does work. People should treat people with respect, computers
> > should treat people like gods.
>
> Wow, then we should not take the most used OS as an example.
>
>
> I suppose you also tried to do it the way I suggested,
> or else you wouldn't know from experience.
>
> btw, do you expect everyone to be serious? ;-)
>

I can't tell when you're being serious or not. Partly because the text
medium removes much from communication and partly because I do tend to be a
literal thinker.



--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote:
> "Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
> news:uZB9hSHxHHA.3328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Anthony Jones wrote:
>>> "MichaelK" wrote in message
>>> news:uL0waj%23wHHA.4332@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> Thanks guys for responds.
>>>> I already figured it out.
>>>> Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
>>>> problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
>>>> Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
>>>>
>>>> About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
>>>> our internal data entry people,
>>>> and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
>>>> every time and use Tab instead.
>>>> So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
>>>> entry field.
>>>
>>> Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
>>> the enter button.
>>
>> ?
>> Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for
>> field/cell navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new
>> line, not Tab.
>
> None of the above are good analogies of standard computer form based
> system.
>
> In Word the tab key follows the same function that it does on a
> typewriter. It moves to the next tab stop.
> Pressing enter or return starts a new line similar to what happens in
> on a typewriter. There is no concept here of the next field or
> control to move to.
>
> In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.

So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
data.

Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
4+5*9=
What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
was tab ;-)

Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or a
bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep track
of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using the number
pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use the Tab key
instead of the Enter key on the number pad.

--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote:
> ...Apologise prefusely to them for having them use an
> application in the past that did not conform to this
> standard and could they please use the tab button from
> now on.

Yeah - just because their telnet/3270 applications were designed and written
before the web browser even existed, those old programs should have gotten
with the eventually-to-become-standard program.




--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Wow guys, didn't expect such a dispute on this easy question.

Well, here's my point of view on this.

First - you are not always free what you want.
If your boss told you to do so, I guess it doesn't matter how smart you are
guys.
Second - people are changing there too often, so really don't want to end up
hanging in the conference room learning pushing tabs more time then doing
the job.
Fourth - the forms I was talking about are shown up in the webbrowser
controls embedded in the regular VB forms. Regardless how weird it sounds
for some it works perfectly for us. At the same time people dealing with the
Unix based applications and old VB programs, and everywhere they are using
Enter as a standard key, and it's not easy for them to switch on Tab when
they got on the HTML forms.
Fifth - it's such a small correction, and was much easier to do, then listen
complains every day. Now every one is happy, we moved on and forgot this
problem ever existed. Have too many other things to work on.

At the end I don't make those programs for myself, but for people who use
them.
They order the music, and in this particular case I don't see they are that
wrong.
But even so why would I jump over my head proving they are wrong.

Just love to listen the people who spent the life in software development
groups or college teachers and hear how everything should be done right. Was
there. Always want to put them in the real intense production environment
where people have deal with the hundreds of applications running in unix,
windows, intranet, extranet, some seems older then I am, written in
different languages, storing data in different formats. And you need to fix
something right here right now.

Dam, it was too long, hope it wont fire another discussion.
Regards :-)
Michael


"Anthony Jones" wrote in message
news:u8KGOiIxHHA.3944@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Evertjan." wrote in message
> news:Xns996B85E699E28eejj99@194.109.133.242...
>> Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
>> microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:
>>
>> >> Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a
>> >> mighty strong incentive for a steep learning curve.
>> >
>> > What does that mean??
>>
>> Seems I cann't help you there.
>>
>> >> Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third ?
>> >>
>> >
>> > If the OP follows my suggestion on the code tweaks nothing happens
>> > when enter is hit.
>> >
>> > If he also takes the time to explain respectfully how and why the new
>> > interface is different no one ever needs to be called stupid,
>> > especially not by a mere computer.
>> >
>> >> My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
>> >> and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
>> >> buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
>> >> projector" happening to notice.
>> >>
>> >> However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute
>> >> politeness is, your idea might eventually work.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Since I have actually managed people and have had to do things similar
>> > to that in the past I can tell you it isn't expensive or pointless and
>> > it does work. People should treat people with respect, computers
>> > should treat people like gods.
>>
>> Wow, then we should not take the most used OS as an example.
>>
>>
>> I suppose you also tried to do it the way I suggested,
>> or else you wouldn't know from experience.
>>
>> btw, do you expect everyone to be serious? ;-)
>>
>
> I can't tell when you're being serious or not. Partly because the text
> medium removes much from communication and partly because I do tend to be
> a
> literal thinker.
>
>
>
> --
> Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
>
>

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"MichaelK" wrote in message
news:Oux3ZBMxHHA.4736@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Wow guys, didn't expect such a dispute on this easy question.
>
> Well, here's my point of view on this.
>
> First - you are not always free what you want.
> If your boss told you to do so, I guess it doesn't matter how smart you
are
> guys.

That's fine if it is the decision of the management. As I said the fault
will be with them as long as you have explained clearly that this design
choice is non-standard and could well cause problems in the future, its up
to them to decide what is overall in the best interests of the company

> Second - people are changing there too often, so really don't want to end
up
> hanging in the conference room learning pushing tabs more time then doing
> the job.

Thing is if other people join the company from other data entry posts which
key do you think they will be used to using for field navigation? Currently
they are picking up that the enter is being used here by what ever training
you give them when they join, you do train them right?

You only need to do the conference room thing once. After all the tab key
isn't the only thing that's going to change. You're not going to change
the app without informing them in some way. Getting them together and
explaining the changes and the reasons for them may not be absolutely
necessary but it's good people management. It makes a bit of change to
their routine and if done right makes them feel involved. I know this is
not your decision but it's worth suggesting.


> Fourth - the forms I was talking about are shown up in the webbrowser
> controls embedded in the regular VB forms. Regardless how weird it sounds
> for some it works perfectly for us. At the same time people dealing with
the
> Unix based applications and old VB programs, and everywhere they are using
> Enter as a standard key, and it's not easy for them to switch on Tab when
> they got on the HTML forms.

Now that's a good pragmattic reason. It might have been handy had you
mentioned it in an earlier post. It is showstopper. ;)

> Fifth - it's such a small correction, and was much easier to do, then
listen
> complains every day.
> Now every one is happy, we moved on and forgot this
> problem ever existed. Have too many other things to work on.

How small a correction is it? I'd be interested to see what the code looks
like that solves this problem?
I don't think it is that small but in light of point 4 it would seem to be
worthwhile.

>
> At the end I don't make those programs for myself, but for people who use
> them.
> They order the music, and in this particular case I don't see they are
that
> wrong.
> But even so why would I jump over my head proving they are wrong.
>
> Just love to listen the people who spent the life in software development
> groups or college teachers and hear how everything should be done right.
Was
> there. Always want to put them in the real intense production environment
> where people have deal with the hundreds of applications running in unix,
> windows, intranet, extranet, some seems older then I am, written in
> different languages, storing data in different formats. And you need to
fix
> something right here right now.
>

Yikes what a nightmare! I've never come across an environment where users
are expected to use 'hundreds' of such disparate applications. (and all
them use enter key for navigation at that)

I can see why you would want the simplest no hassle solution to all
problems.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
news:OHMOy3IxHHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Anthony Jones wrote:
> > "Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
> > news:uZB9hSHxHHA.3328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> Anthony Jones wrote:
> >>> "MichaelK" wrote in message
> >>> news:uL0waj%23wHHA.4332@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >>>> Thanks guys for responds.
> >>>> I already figured it out.
> >>>> Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
> >>>> problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
> >>>> Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
> >>>>
> >>>> About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
> >>>> our internal data entry people,
> >>>> and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
> >>>> every time and use Tab instead.
> >>>> So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
> >>>> entry field.
> >>>
> >>> Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
> >>> the enter button.
> >>
> >> ?
> >> Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for
> >> field/cell navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new
> >> line, not Tab.
> >
> > None of the above are good analogies of standard computer form based
> > system.
> >
> > In Word the tab key follows the same function that it does on a
> > typewriter. It moves to the next tab stop.
> > Pressing enter or return starts a new line similar to what happens in
> > on a typewriter. There is no concept here of the next field or
> > control to move to.
> >
> > In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
>
> So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
> data.

Like I said what the Enter key does varies depending on what Excel
intelligently interprets what you want it to do.

>
> Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
> 4+5*9=
> What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
> was tab ;-)
>

No, why would I press the tab, there are no other fields to navigate to :P

> Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or a
> bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep track
> of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using the number
> pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use the Tab key
> instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
>

Again the cacluator is not representive of the species. It doesn't even
give the one input control it has the focus.

Enter does what you would expect it to in a standard UI, completes the
operation, (even though the calc doesn't really conform otherwise) it isn't
being used for field navigation.

> --
> Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
> Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
> header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
> quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
>
>

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote:
>>> In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
>>
>> So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
>> data.
>
> Like I said what the Enter key does varies depending on what Excel
> intelligently interprets what you want it to do.

So? How does that invalidate my assertion? The fact remains that I can
perform cell navigation in Excel using the Enter key.

>> Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
>> 4+5*9=
>> What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
>> was tab ;-)
>>
>
> No, why would I press the tab, there are no other fields to navigate
> to :P

No, but most business application users are used to this model: type in the
data and press Enter to signal that the current piece of data is finished
and move to the next field. In fact, they are so used to this that they take
it on faith that this will happen, continuing to type in data without even
looking at the screen to confirm that the expected navigation has taken
place.

>
>> Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or
>> a bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep
>> track of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using
>> the number pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use
>> the Tab key instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
>>
>
> Again the cacluator is not representive of the species. It doesn't
> even give the one input control it has the focus.
>
And I seem to have failed to clarify my shift from the Calculater example
back to an application UI presenting a series of fields or cells in which
data is to be entered, such as Excel.

> Enter does what you would expect it to in a standard UI, completes the
> operation, (even though the calc doesn't really conform otherwise) it
> isn't being used for field navigation.
>
Again, in Excel, Enter can, and is, used for cell navigation (I really do
not understand your denial of this fact.). And again, most users of business
applications that I have encountered balk at losing the ability to perform
single-handed data entry using the Enter key to navigate from
field-to-field. They are not interested in conforming to design
"standards"', they are interested in performing their job in the most
efficient manner possible, and refuse to use applications that slow them
down.



--
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
"NO SPAM"

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
news:%23OSeJ8SxHHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Anthony Jones wrote:
> >>> In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
> >>
> >> So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
> >> data.
> >
> > Like I said what the Enter key does varies depending on what Excel
> > intelligently interprets what you want it to do.
>
> So? How does that invalidate my assertion? The fact remains that I can
> perform cell navigation in Excel using the Enter key.

It doesn't

>
> >> Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
> >> 4+5*9=
> >> What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
> >> was tab ;-)
> >>
> >
> > No, why would I press the tab, there are no other fields to navigate
> > to :P
>
> No, but most business application users are used to this model: type in
the
> data and press Enter to signal that the current piece of data is finished
> and move to the next field. In fact, they are so used to this that they
take
> it on faith that this will happen, continuing to type in data without even
> looking at the screen to confirm that the expected navigation has taken
> place.

I'm sorry but my exprience is different.

>
> >
> >> Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or
> >> a bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep
> >> track of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using
> >> the number pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use
> >> the Tab key instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
> >>
> >
> > Again the cacluator is not representive of the species. It doesn't
> > even give the one input control it has the focus.
> >
> And I seem to have failed to clarify my shift from the Calculater example
> back to an application UI presenting a series of fields or cells in which
> data is to be entered, such as Excel.

Hold on you equate cells with fields. I don't accept that you can equate
the contigeous set of cells in a spreadsheet with a set of data entry fields
in a form.

>
> > Enter does what you would expect it to in a standard UI, completes the
> > operation, (even though the calc doesn't really conform otherwise) it
> > isn't being used for field navigation.
> >
> Again, in Excel, Enter can, and is, used for cell navigation (I really do
> not understand your denial of this fact.).

I didn't, in fact I've given you quite an explicit description of how the
enter key does actually work in Excel.

> And again, most users of business
> applications that I have encountered balk at losing the ability to perform
> single-handed data entry using the Enter key to navigate from
> field-to-field.

Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're talking pure
numerical info here) then the abiility to use the numeric pads enter key to
move to the next field is sensible. Is that a general or a specific case?

> They are not interested in conforming to design
> "standards"', they are interested in performing their job in the most
> efficient manner possible, and refuse to use applications that slow them
> down.

I completely agree that we should give the users whatever is the most
sensible and natural UI we can.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote:
>
> Hold on you equate cells with fields. I don't accept that you can
> equate the contigeous set of cells in a spreadsheet with a set of
> data entry fields in a form.
>

From a computer science pov, you are certainly correct. Users will usually
fail to appreciate the distinction. I made a brief attempt several years ago
but had to admit defeat.

>> And again, most users of business
>> applications that I have encountered balk at losing the ability to
>> perform single-handed data entry using the Enter key to navigate from
>> field-to-field.
>
> Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're talking
> pure numerical info here) then the abiility to use the numeric pads
> enter key to move to the next field is sensible. Is that a general
> or a specific case?

In my experience, it's been the general case. Most of my applications
involve numeric entry and, if I forget to capture and redefine the Enter
keystroke, I hear about it. Of course, I don't forget anymore, because I've
got a js library file that I include in every form I create.


--
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
"NO SPAM"

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
news:eyH84iTxHHA.4668@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Anthony Jones wrote:
> >
> > Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're talking
> > pure numerical info here) then the abiility to use the numeric pads
> > enter key to move to the next field is sensible. Is that a general
> > or a specific case?
>
> In my experience, it's been the general case. Most of my applications
> involve numeric entry and, if I forget to capture and redefine the Enter
> keystroke, I hear about it. Of course, I don't forget anymore, because
I've
> got a js library file that I include in every form I create.
>
>
Interesting. OTH I have had users go on at me because I failed to supply a
default action which is initiated by the enter button and that's not just in
Web apps. I guess it just goes to show that even with a long career you
can't generalise on your own experience. I'll try to remember that in
future.


--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Anthony Jones wrote on 13 jul 2007 in
microsoft.public.inetserver.asp.general:

>
> "Bob Barrows [MVP]" wrote in message
> news:eyH84iTxHHA.4668@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Anthony Jones wrote:
>> >
>> > Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're
>> > talking pure numerical info here) then the abiility to use the
>> > numeric pads enter key to move to the next field is sensible. Is
>> > that a general or a specific case?
>>
>> In my experience, it's been the general case. Most of my applications
>> involve numeric entry and, if I forget to capture and redefine the
>> Enter keystroke, I hear about it. Of course, I don't forget anymore,
>> because
> I've
>> got a js library file that I include in every form I create.
>>
>>
> Interesting. OTH I have had users go on at me because I failed to
> supply a default action which is initiated by the enter button and
> that's not just in Web apps. I guess it just goes to show that even
> with a long career you can't generalise on your own experience. I'll
> try to remember that in future.

Using the for repeated numeric entry works terrible on a standard
keyboard with numberpad, as the is far away and even some times the
is hit, when using different makes of keyboards.

The numeric pad key is nice at hand, leaving the left hand free for
other duties like pointing at a paper source.


--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Anthony Jones"
writing in
news:uXH5QdIxHHA.4628@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

> The old 3270 terminals
> would again use tab to move between the fields and enter to submit the
> page. It is this standard that Windows adopted and MS published in
> design guidelines. It has become the industry accepted standard.
>
> I know I am _that_ old. ;)
>
>

I worked with 3270's and a DecWriter. [For those too young to know, a
decwriter was a highspeed printer with a large keyboard used for printing
checks and reports.] Our Decwriter's name was Penelope, and for some
reason, when a man sat down to do something, the machine would suddenly
start beeping and spitting out paper. Every time we called out Digital
to service it, of course, they sent a female tech and she would go away
because nothing was wrong. The machine was retired before we ever found
the cause.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Adrienne Boswell" wrote in message
news:Xns996C79DFE150Farbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121...
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Anthony Jones"
> writing in
> news:uXH5QdIxHHA.4628@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>
> > The old 3270 terminals
> > would again use tab to move between the fields and enter to submit the
> > page. It is this standard that Windows adopted and MS published in
> > design guidelines. It has become the industry accepted standard.
> >
> > I know I am _that_ old. ;)
> >
> >
>
> I worked with 3270's and a DecWriter. [For those too young to know, a
> decwriter was a highspeed printer with a large keyboard used for printing
> checks and reports.] Our Decwriter's name was Penelope, and for some
> reason, when a man sat down to do something, the machine would suddenly
> start beeping and spitting out paper. Every time we called out Digital
> to service it, of course, they sent a female tech and she would go away
> because nothing was wrong. The machine was retired before we ever found
> the cause.
>

LOL!.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Anthony Jones" wrote:
> The old 3270 terminals would again use tab to move between the
> fields and enter to submit the page. It is this standard that
> Windows adopted and MS published in design guidelines. It has
> become the industry accepted standard.

That's not credible. I have worked on several 3270 systems, none of which
used [Enter] to submit a page. In fact, I saw no consistency beyond the
tendency to use "one of the PF-keys" to submit.

It is fantasy to suggest [Enter] was the standard on 3270 systems.



--
Dave Anderson

Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.

Re: Don"t submit form on Enter button

"Dave Anderson" wrote in message
news:uzhIf3IyHHA.4264@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Anthony Jones" wrote:
> > The old 3270 terminals would again use tab to move between the
> > fields and enter to submit the page. It is this standard that
> > Windows adopted and MS published in design guidelines. It has
> > become the industry accepted standard.
>
> That's not credible. I have worked on several 3270 systems, none of which
> used [Enter] to submit a page. In fact, I saw no consistency beyond the
> tendency to use "one of the PF-keys" to submit.
>
> It is fantasy to suggest [Enter] was the standard on 3270 systems.
>

Mate, this party finished a couple of days ago; there's only the clearing up
of the paper plates and cups to do.

I think we've established already that what various applications actually
did down through history actually varied more than I had though.

--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET