Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 12:07:02 von Andy Dingley
On 27 Jul, 08:59, D_W wrote:
> I have a .net page that uses css styles and frames.
There are not ".NET pages". .NET is sourcecode for a server which then
makes a plain old HTML page from it. You can (and should) fix layout
problems by working with the HTML and CSS alone. Worry about the .NET
you need to make them with later.
You're also not using CSS, or at least if you are, you're also using a
great deal of HTML 3.2 presentational markup in there too. No wonder
it's hard to see what's going on.
* Lose the XHTML, just use HTML 4.01 Strict
* Lose the transitional doctype, just use HTML 4.01 Strict
* Lose the HTML 3.2 presentational markup, just use HTML 4.01 Strict
* Lose the frames. You've got a powerful server to use here, do it
with SSI instead.
* Lose the Dreamweaver boilerplate JavaScript. You don't need it.
* Re-code your HTML as minimal semantic HTML, just the content and no
presentation. Apply CSS (and probably a few extra , classes etc.)
as necessary to get the look right.
* Consider replacing the central product list table with a single
linear list of
instead, using float:left;. This re-sizes better
for varying browser window widths. In most cases it looks just like a
table, it's just a bit more flexible.
If you work hard, you _might_ get your current HTML 3.2 code to work.
However it will be hard to do this, you'll produce an inflexible
design at the end, and you're likely to get no help locally as the
clueful people have already worked on more than enough HTML 3.2 and
don't want to see any more.
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 12:19:58 von D_W
On 27 Juli, 18:07, Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 27 Jul, 08:59, D_W wrote:
>
> > I have a .net page that uses css styles and frames.
>
> There are not ".NET pages". .NET is sourcecode for a server which then
> makes a plain old HTML page from it. You can (and should) fix layout
> problems by working with the HTML and CSS alone. Worry about the .NET
> you need to make them with later.
>
> You're also not using CSS, or at least if you are, you're also using a
> great deal of HTML 3.2 presentational markup in there too. No wonder
> it's hard to see what's going on.
>
> * Lose the XHTML, just use HTML 4.01 Strict
>
> * Lose the transitional doctype, just use HTML 4.01 Strict
>
> * Lose the HTML 3.2 presentational markup, just use HTML 4.01 Strict
>
> * Lose the frames. You've got a powerful server to use here, do it
> with SSI instead.
>
> * Lose the Dreamweaver boilerplate JavaScript. You don't need it.
>
> * Re-code your HTML as minimal semantic HTML, just the content and no
> presentation. Apply CSS (and probably a few extra , classes etc.)
> as necessary to get the look right.
>
> * Consider replacing the central product list table with a single
> linear list of
instead, using float:left;. This re-sizes better
> for varying browser window widths. In most cases it looks just like a
> table, it's just a bit more flexible.
>
> If you work hard, you _might_ get your current HTML 3.2 code to work.
> However it will be hard to do this, you'll produce an inflexible
> design at the end, and you're likely to get no help locally as the
> clueful people have already worked on more than enough HTML 3.2 and
> don't want to see any more.
All that would be fine, but all I want to do is make the table 100% of
the frame like it shows in IE and not a few pixels bigger like in
firefox.
There must be some basic error that makes the page render "taller" in
firefox than in IE.
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 12:21:35 von Bernhard Sturm
D_W wrote:
>
>
> Here you go
> http://www.swespy.se/nya/index.htm
>
Thanks... You are using frames, get rid of them. Frames are evil to
search-engines and users (try to print you page once, try to access it
with a screen-reader).
Then: you are mixing layout and structural represantation in your
source. Avoid this. This will lead you to table-less designs: your menu
is wrapped into a table, drop this table and try to set up your menu as
a unordered list:
you can wrap your menu into a container, in order to get your
desired borders.
I believe you could go away with your design if you google for something
like: liquid two column layout. This could help for a start:
http://www.nysforum.org/documents/html/css-9-21-05/twocolumn /liquid.html
HTH
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
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Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 12:27:54 von Bernhard Sturm
D_W wrote:
>
> All that would be fine, but all I want to do is make the table 100% of
> the frame like it shows in IE and not a few pixels bigger like in
> firefox.
'fine' is not an option :-) try to design your document according to
what Andy told you, you will get rid a lot of the troubles that you
don't know yet, but are burried within your page.
> There must be some basic error that makes the page render "taller" in
> firefox than in IE.
>
The 'basic error' are the ones, Andy has pointed out to you. If you
follow his advice your problems will get solved.
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 13:39:00 von John Hosking
D_W wrote:
> On 27 Juli, 18:07, Andy Dingley wrote:
>> On 27 Jul, 08:59, D_W wrote:
>>
>>> I have a .net page that uses css styles and frames.
>> You're also not using CSS, or at least if you are, you're also using a
>> great deal of HTML 3.2 presentational markup in there too. No wonder
>> it's hard to see what's going on.
>> * Lose the frames. You've got a powerful server to use here, do it
>> with SSI instead.
I can't even tell which of the seven frames/sources I should look in.
Anyway, I don't see the problem. In FF I see a vertical scrollbar to the
right of the product display part (all lower than nav menu I think
you're talking about). In IE6, I see a vertical and a horizontal
scrollbar for the same section.
>
> All that would be fine, but all I want to do is make the table 100% of
> the frame like it shows in IE and not a few pixels bigger like in
> firefox.
> There must be some basic error that makes the page render "taller" in
> firefox than in IE.
Not necessarily. You do know that different browsers[1] render some
things[2] differently, don't you?
[1] and what is IE if not different?
[2] Most notably, spacing around and between elements.
--
John
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 13:42:27 von lws4art
D_W wrote:
> All that would be fine, but all I want to do is make the table 100% of
> the frame like it shows in IE and not a few pixels bigger like in
> firefox.
> There must be some basic error that makes the page render "taller" in
> firefox than in IE.
>
Yes you are right there is an error but not in FF but *MSIE*. If you
have a table set to 100% of the containing element (height or width) AND
you add a border, the border is *added* to the dimension which is >100%.
If you trigger quirks mode IE does not add the border to the height
which is incorrect. Now if you fix the errors that others have informed
you and work with an HTML 4.01 strict you will have a better chance of
getting *MSIE* to play nice with the rules and more likely to get
x-browser consistency.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 13:45:05 von a.nony.mous
D_W wrote:
> All that would be fine, but all I want to do is make the table 100% of
> the frame like it shows in IE and not a few pixels bigger like in
> firefox.
A few pixels? Maybe ... three?
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.htm l
> There must be some basic error that makes the page render "taller" in
> firefox than in IE.
You will never get absolute pixel precision across multiple browsers.
You will have much better luck if you follow Bernhard's advice to dump
the frames, the antiquated last-century markup, and use a normal
two-column CSS layout.
Your visitors - most importantly including search engines - will
appreciate it.
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 13:58:22 von 34107
D_W wrote in
news:1185530008.050562.246480@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On 27 Juli, 16:57, Bernhard Sturm wrote:
>> D_W wrote:
>> > Hi, Quick question.
>>
>> quick answer: post a URL.
>>
>>
>>
>> > the menu needs a border around and I have it in a table with a border
>>
>> which seems to me to be a wrong approach: why would you want to put a
>> menu into a table? AFAIK menus are not tabular-data, hence should not
>> be
>> represented by a menu (a unordered list would be more appropriate).
>>
>>
>>
>> > It works nice in I.E as usual but in firefox the table gets bigger
>> > than the screen by a few pixels creating a scroll bar..
>>
>> post a URL, so that we can see what you mean.
>>
>>
>>
>> > any solution to this?
>>
>> if it works 'nice' in IE, but not in FF, you might consider revising
>> your source as this is always a hint that something is wrong with it.
>> Consider IE as the most 'broken'-UA out there.
>>
>> HTH
>> bernhard
>>
>> --www.daszeichen.ch
>> remove nixspam to reply
>
>
> Here you go
> http://www.swespy.se/nya/index.htm
>
Erm, 391 validation errors!
It might be an idea to fix these first - you never know, your height
problem might then disappear!
--
www.lightningnews.com Lightning fast anonymous usenet downloads for 5$ only !
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 14:54:05 von D_W
I did find what might be causing the problem.
In I.E the framecontent actually gets aligned to the frameborder but
in Firefox there is a 5px "padding" from all frameborders..
Now all I need to do is find where to change this and I'm home free..
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 27.07.2007 15:05:06 von D_W
On 27 Juli, 20:54, D_W wrote:
> I did find what might be causing the problem.
> In I.E the framecontent actually gets aligned to the frameborder but
> in Firefox there is a 5px "padding" from all frameborders..
> Now all I need to do is find where to change this and I'm home free..
Margin:0px solved it..
As for all you guys complaining about frames.. yes I know, I started
building the page using master files and style positioning but the guy
I'm building for didn't want that, he wanted frames so I give him what
he wants.
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 28.07.2007 00:39:45 von Andy Dingley
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:19:58 -0700, D_W
wrote:
>All that would be fine, but all I want to do is make the table 100% of
>the frame like it shows in IE and not a few pixels bigger like in
>firefox.
If your HTML 3.2 approach is working for you, then stick with it.
However it isn't, and you've no real direction to make further progress
in fixing it. When you're up a dead end, turn around. Console yourself
with the thought you will know not to go that way again.
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 28.07.2007 00:41:37 von dorayme
In article
<1185541506.758446.306460@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
D_W wrote:
> On 27 Juli, 20:54, D_W wrote:
> > I did find what might be causing the problem.
> > In I.E the framecontent actually gets aligned to the frameborder but
> > in Firefox there is a 5px "padding" from all frameborders..
> > Now all I need to do is find where to change this and I'm home free..
>
> Margin:0px solved it..
> As for all you guys complaining about frames.. yes I know, I started
> building the page using master files and style positioning but the guy
> I'm building for didn't want that, he wanted frames so I give him what
> he wants.
There should be a lowly cousin of alt.html where the rule is that
the least effort short term solution to questions are sought and
given.
--
dorayme
Re: Firefox displays too high table
am 28.07.2007 03:23:58 von Neredbojias
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:41:37 GMT
dorayme scribed:
> In article
> <1185541506.758446.306460@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> D_W wrote:
>
>> On 27 Juli, 20:54, D_W wrote:
>> > I did find what might be causing the problem.
>> > In I.E the framecontent actually gets aligned to the frameborder but
>> > in Firefox there is a 5px "padding" from all frameborders..
>> > Now all I need to do is find where to change this and I'm home free..
>>
>> Margin:0px solved it..
>> As for all you guys complaining about frames.. yes I know, I started
>> building the page using master files and style positioning but the guy
>> I'm building for didn't want that, he wanted frames so I give him what
>> he wants.
>
> There should be a lowly cousin of alt.html where the rule is that
> the least effort short term solution to questions are sought and
> given.
How about sub.html?
Oh, I forgot, I'm not talking to you because you're a bitch.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.