How much to US developers charge

I picked up a client in the US, who were not happy with their old web
developer, and we are taking over the project.

Our position in the market place is
1) providing a quality service, and
2) not charging the client an arm and a leg. Sure, we need to make a profit
(and will, we work on quite a few projects at once) but I have no clue how
much US web developers charge per hour on average. We dont have an hourly
rate as we usually fix prices and start from scratch.

There is a HUGE amount of work to be done, lots of nasty half finished ends
to pick up and sort out, the only possible way to fairly quote the client is
by giving him an hourly rate.

In summary, I would like to offer a US client a fair, normal and common
hourly rate to fix up an ecommerce web site which contains all the usual
scripting/database and flash stuff. Im not entirely sure what to charge
though, for both of the reasons mentioned above.

So, what is the going rate in the USofA with regards to hourly rates.
Not the most expensive
Not the cowboys
Not the bedroom programmers...
Just the average going rate, a fair days work for a fair days pay.

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article ,
"Romper" wrote:

> I picked up a client in the US, who were not happy with their old web
> developer, and we are taking over the project.
>
> Our position in the market place is
> 1) providing a quality service, and
> 2) not charging the client an arm and a leg. Sure, we need to make a profit
> (and will, we work on quite a few projects at once) but I have no clue how
> much US web developers charge per hour on average. We dont have an hourly
> rate as we usually fix prices and start from scratch.
>
> There is a HUGE amount of work to be done, lots of nasty half finished ends
> to pick up and sort out, the only possible way to fairly quote the client is
> by giving him an hourly rate.
>
> In summary, I would like to offer a US client a fair, normal and common
> hourly rate to fix up an ecommerce web site which contains all the usual
> scripting/database and flash stuff. Im not entirely sure what to charge
> though, for both of the reasons mentioned above.
>
> So, what is the going rate in the USofA with regards to hourly rates.
> Not the most expensive
> Not the cowboys
> Not the bedroom programmers...
> Just the average going rate, a fair days work for a fair days pay.

You are experienced in charging to make a fair profit elsewhere,
right? Then charge that.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article , nospam@nospam.com
says...
> I picked up a client in the US, who were not happy with their old web
> developer, and we are taking over the project.
>
> Our position in the market place is
> 1) providing a quality service, and
> 2) not charging the client an arm and a leg. Sure, we need to make a profit
> (and will, we work on quite a few projects at once) but I have no clue how
> much US web developers charge per hour on average. We dont have an hourly
> rate as we usually fix prices and start from scratch.
>
> There is a HUGE amount of work to be done, lots of nasty half finished ends
> to pick up and sort out, the only possible way to fairly quote the client is
> by giving him an hourly rate.
>
> In summary, I would like to offer a US client a fair, normal and common
> hourly rate to fix up an ecommerce web site which contains all the usual
> scripting/database and flash stuff. Im not entirely sure what to charge
> though, for both of the reasons mentioned above.
>
> So, what is the going rate in the USofA with regards to hourly rates.
> Not the most expensive
> Not the cowboys
> Not the bedroom programmers...
> Just the average going rate, a fair days work for a fair days pay.
>
>
>
Take what you charge in your country and convert it to US Dollars.

Re: How much to US developers charge

> You are experienced in charging to make a fair profit elsewhere,
> right? Then charge that.
>
> --
> dorayme

(The spec is massive, with lots of loose ends, none of us could possibly
provide a fixed quote for the client, re: how much work the project will
actually turn out to be. Its too big, there are too many loose ends. The
only fair way for all of us would be an hourly rate.

As I said, we always charge fixed prices. Its the way we have always worked,
for the sole reason that 99% of the projects we get are new, and start from
scratch).

My question was: What does a middle of the road web dev company tend to
charge in the USA :)

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article ,
"Romper" wrote:

> > You are experienced in charging to make a fair profit elsewhere,
> > right? Then charge that.
> >
> > --
> > dorayme
>
> (The spec is massive, with lots of loose ends, none of us could possibly
> provide a fixed quote for the client, re: how much work the project will
> actually turn out to be. Its too big, there are too many loose ends. The
> only fair way for all of us would be an hourly rate.
>
> As I said, we always charge fixed prices. Its the way we have always worked,
> for the sole reason that 99% of the projects we get are new, and start from
> scratch).
>
> My question was: What does a middle of the road web dev company tend to
> charge in the USA :)

OK. I know the difficulty well. It is just that almost any answer
you get here will be subject to so many qualifications that it
might well not be useful to you.

You _must_ have an idea of how much per hour you have been
charging in effect (in effect with hindsight, you will follow
me?) in your successful contracts. So charge that.

What will actually happen is this if you are not so confident of
your efficiency and are the type to be revising a lot and aiming
for perfection, fussing and all that (it is a bad condition that
many of us are afflicted by!) you will do the work, it will look
outlandish to charge for the actual hours and you will use your
common sense based on (by that stage) greater knowledge and feel
for the company you are dealing with, to pare it back a bit.

But, as I said, just quote what you have experience of on the per
hour basis.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:11:54
GMT Romper scribed:

> (The spec is massive, with lots of loose ends, none of us could
> possibly provide a fixed quote for the client, re: how much work the
> project will actually turn out to be. Its too big, there are too many
> loose ends. The only fair way for all of us would be an hourly rate.
>
> As I said, we always charge fixed prices. Its the way we have always
> worked, for the sole reason that 99% of the projects we get are new,
> and start from scratch).
>
> My question was: What does a middle of the road web dev company tend
> to charge in the USA :)

Bottom line for top company - about $60-$65 per hour. Others will surely
demure, but notice I said "bottom line". And in case you're confused,
dorayme is Australian.

--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article
,
Neredbojias wrote:

> And in case you're confused,
> dorayme is Australian.

That is so relevant. You continue to act all brain damaged but
refuse to send a sample of your brain for analysis.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:11:54
> GMT Romper scribed:
>
>> (The spec is massive, with lots of loose ends, none of us could
>> possibly provide a fixed quote for the client, re: how much work the
>> project will actually turn out to be. Its too big, there are too many
>> loose ends. The only fair way for all of us would be an hourly rate.
>>
>> As I said, we always charge fixed prices. Its the way we have always
>> worked, for the sole reason that 99% of the projects we get are new,
>> and start from scratch).
>>
>> My question was: What does a middle of the road web dev company tend
>> to charge in the USA :)
>
> Bottom line for top company - about $60-$65 per hour. Others will surely
> demure, but notice I said "bottom line".

Can you elaborate then on what you mean by "bottom line"?

Most top companies for whom I've worked and dealt with price out their
designers and developers easily into triple figures; $120 or $125 per
hour is not all that uncommon.

Granted, those individuals may only see half of (if) that in their
paychecks. Perhaps that's what you mean by "bottom line"...

--

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
Kevin Scholl http://www.ksscholl.com/
kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
the dreams...
======================================================

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:14:54 GMT
dorayme scribed:

> In article
> ,
> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> And in case you're confused,
>> dorayme is Australian.
>
> That is so relevant. You continue to act all brain damaged but
> refuse to send a sample of your brain for analysis.

Whaddya mean? He was asking a question about the American economy. What
would a remote Australian know about the American economy?

--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:27:08
GMT Kevin Scholl scribed:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007
>> 22:11:54 GMT Romper scribed:
>>
>>> (The spec is massive, with lots of loose ends, none of us could
>>> possibly provide a fixed quote for the client, re: how much work the
>>> project will actually turn out to be. Its too big, there are too
>>> many loose ends. The only fair way for all of us would be an hourly
>>> rate.
>>>
>>> As I said, we always charge fixed prices. Its the way we have always
>>> worked, for the sole reason that 99% of the projects we get are new,
>>> and start from scratch).
>>>
>>> My question was: What does a middle of the road web dev company tend
>>> to charge in the USA :)
>>
>> Bottom line for top company - about $60-$65 per hour. Others will
>> surely demure, but notice I said "bottom line".
>
> Can you elaborate then on what you mean by "bottom line"?
>
> Most top companies for whom I've worked and dealt with price out their
> designers and developers easily into triple figures; $120 or $125 per
> hour is not all that uncommon.

If you have a strict t & m (time-and-material/services) contract, such a
quote _may_ be accepted by some companies with airs, but down at the
nitty-gritty level, no enterprise in its right mind would pay that open-
endedly for a website. Perhaps a not-to-exceed clause might get you such
figures, but you asked what the normal _real_ rate was, and I answered
according to my knowledge.

> Granted, those individuals may only see half of (if) that in their
> paychecks. Perhaps that's what you mean by "bottom line"...

"Bottom Line" doesn't have a precise definition and its details _can_
very from agreement to agreement, but it still is the real, effective
rate-of-income one can expect. Lots of people quote triple-figures, but
lots of people lie, too. Of all the maybe 2 dozen people I ever talked
to who visited Las Vegas and discussed their fortunes, only 1 actually
lost money. Yeah, right.

--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:27:08
> GMT Kevin Scholl scribed:
>
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007
>>> 22:11:54 GMT Romper scribed:
>>>
>>>> (The spec is massive, with lots of loose ends, none of us could
>>>> possibly provide a fixed quote for the client, re: how much work the
>>>> project will actually turn out to be. Its too big, there are too
>>>> many loose ends. The only fair way for all of us would be an hourly
>>>> rate.
>>>>
>>>> As I said, we always charge fixed prices. Its the way we have always
>>>> worked, for the sole reason that 99% of the projects we get are new,
>>>> and start from scratch).
>>>>
>>>> My question was: What does a middle of the road web dev company tend
>>>> to charge in the USA :)
>>> Bottom line for top company - about $60-$65 per hour. Others will
>>> surely demure, but notice I said "bottom line".
>> Can you elaborate then on what you mean by "bottom line"?
>>
>> Most top companies for whom I've worked and dealt with price out their
>> designers and developers easily into triple figures; $120 or $125 per
>> hour is not all that uncommon.
>
> If you have a strict t & m (time-and-material/services) contract, such a
> quote _may_ be accepted by some companies with airs, but down at the
> nitty-gritty level, no enterprise in its right mind would pay that open-
> endedly for a website. Perhaps a not-to-exceed clause might get you such
> figures, but you asked what the normal _real_ rate was, and I answered
> according to my knowledge.

Fair enough answer, though I assure you that such figures aren't
uncommon. I've seen the formal Statements of Work and estimate sheets,
and those figures are quite real. Granted, we're talking complete Web
solutions produced by teams, including e-commerce and such, not simple
Web sites. But the design and front-end development aspects got those
amounts.

$60-$65 ... not much more than I get freelancing, and that IS for
relatively simple sites and general graphic design.

>> Granted, those individuals may only see half of (if) that in their
>> paychecks. Perhaps that's what you mean by "bottom line"...
>
> "Bottom Line" doesn't have a precise definition and its details _can_
> very from agreement to agreement, but it still is the real, effective
> rate-of-income one can expect. Lots of people quote triple-figures, but
> lots of people lie, too. Of all the maybe 2 dozen people I ever talked
> to who visited Las Vegas and discussed their fortunes, only 1 actually
> lost money. Yeah, right.

Heh heh!

--

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
Kevin Scholl http://www.ksscholl.com/
kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
the dreams...
======================================================

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article
,
Neredbojias wrote:

> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:14:54 GMT
> dorayme scribed:
>
> > In article
> > ,
> > Neredbojias wrote:
> >
> >> And in case you're confused,
> >> dorayme is Australian.
> >
> > That is so relevant. You continue to act all brain damaged but
> > refuse to send a sample of your brain for analysis.
>
> Whaddya mean? He was asking a question about the American economy. What
> would a remote Australian know about the American economy?

I know better than to try to reason with you. He would not have
been confused by my advice if he was not like you in crucial ways.

Stop making ignorant comments about this country, preferably
about anything for a while.

Take a break while you organise that sample I have been asking
you for.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:07:33
GMT dorayme scribed:

>> >> And in case you're confused,
>> >> dorayme is Australian.
>> >
>> > That is so relevant. You continue to act all brain damaged but
>> > refuse to send a sample of your brain for analysis.
>>
>> Whaddya mean? He was asking a question about the American economy.
>> What would a remote Australian know about the American economy?
>
> I know better than to try to reason with you. He would not have
> been confused by my advice if he was not like you in crucial ways.
>
> Stop making ignorant comments about this country, preferably
> about anything for a while.
>
> Take a break while you organise that sample I have been asking
> you for.

Ignorant comments? Listen here, dearie, stop putting words in my mouth. I
think Australia is a great land and a great country, although it certainly
has a few odd denizens living within its borders. As for other things, you
should starting looking on the bright side for a change instead of dwelling
in the Stygian darkness of the swill pit of your attitude.

--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 09 Aug 2007 02:44:15
GMT Kevin Scholl scribed:

>>> Most top companies for whom I've worked and dealt with price out
>>> their designers and developers easily into triple figures; $120 or
>>> $125 per hour is not all that uncommon.
>>
>> If you have a strict t & m (time-and-material/services) contract,
>> such a quote _may_ be accepted by some companies with airs, but down
>> at the nitty-gritty level, no enterprise in its right mind would pay
>> that open- endedly for a website. Perhaps a not-to-exceed clause
>> might get you such figures, but you asked what the normal _real_ rate
>> was, and I answered according to my knowledge.
>
> Fair enough answer, though I assure you that such figures aren't
> uncommon. I've seen the formal Statements of Work and estimate sheets,
> and those figures are quite real. Granted, we're talking complete Web
> solutions produced by teams, including e-commerce and such, not simple
> Web sites. But the design and front-end development aspects got those
> amounts.
>
> $60-$65 ... not much more than I get freelancing, and that IS for
> relatively simple sites and general graphic design.

Ah, but the "secret" is volume. You can do the math; I won't belabor the
point. And...you might, indeed, find more than a few companies willing
to pay what you suggest, at least initially, but as time goes on, they'll
wise up.

>>> Granted, those individuals may only see half of (if) that in their
>>> paychecks. Perhaps that's what you mean by "bottom line"...
>>
>> "Bottom Line" doesn't have a precise definition and its details _can_
>> very from agreement to agreement, but it still is the real, effective
>> rate-of-income one can expect. Lots of people quote triple-figures,
>> but lots of people lie, too. Of all the maybe 2 dozen people I ever
>> talked to who visited Las Vegas and discussed their fortunes, only 1
>> actually lost money. Yeah, right.
>
> Heh heh!
>



--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article
,
Neredbojias wrote:

> GMT dorayme scribed:

> > Stop making ignorant comments about this country, preferably
> > about anything for a while.
> >
> > Take a break while you organise that sample I have been asking
> > you for.
>
> Ignorant comments? Listen here, dearie, ...


So I tell a feller to look at what he _has_ earned per hour and
charge that if he _must_ charge an hourly rate and you assert
that this would be so confusing to the OP that it must be
explained by you in terms of Australia. You are a schmuck and you
have been told before to be nice and you will see the response
accordingly. You cannot compute this for the simple reason that
there is something in your brain that needs fixing and I can help
you if you send the little bit between the ears for me to examine
and experiment on. Trust me, you will not miss it, no one will
notice any difference. But when I get it back to you, you will be
laughing. (That is an Australian expression, meaning you will be
right, happy, good to go).

I would have thought that you would restrain yourself after your
last public disgusting overtures to me, you pig.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:51:53
GMT dorayme scribed:

> In article
> ,
> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> GMT dorayme scribed:
>
>> > Stop making ignorant comments about this country, preferably
>> > about anything for a while.
>> >
>> > Take a break while you organise that sample I have been asking
>> > you for.
>>
>> Ignorant comments? Listen here, dearie, ...
>
>
> So I tell a feller to look at what he _has_ earned per hour and
> charge that if he _must_ charge an hourly rate and you assert
> that this would be so confusing to the OP that it must be
> explained by you in terms of Australia. You are a schmuck and you
> have been told before to be nice and you will see the response
> accordingly. You cannot compute this for the simple reason that
> there is something in your brain that needs fixing and I can help
> you if you send the little bit between the ears for me to examine
> and experiment on. Trust me, you will not miss it, no one will
> notice any difference. But when I get it back to you, you will be
> laughing. (That is an Australian expression, meaning you will be
> right, happy, good to go).

I wonder why we argue so much. Perhaps we are a lot alike...

> I would have thought that you would restrain yourself after your
> last public disgusting overtures to me, you pig.

Suey!!! Ha ha! Sorry, ma, but I'm a stallion, not a pig, although I am
glad you said that 'cause it reminded me I haven't had chop suey in a
long time and I want some. Just for the record, there were no vertures,
there was merely one hypothetical question. I was just trying to find
out if you were stable enough to know what the expression meant.

--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article
,
Neredbojias wrote:

> > So I tell a feller to look at what he _has_ earned per hour and
> > charge that if he _must_ charge an hourly rate and you assert
> > that this would be so confusing to the OP that it must be
> > explained by you in terms of Australia. You are a schmuck and you
> > have been told before to be nice and you will see the response
> > accordingly. ....
>
> I wonder why we argue so much. Perhaps we are a lot alike...
>

Keep it up, just keep talking absolute crap and never ever face a
relevant issue head on. Never deal with pressing matters, just
always flip around to some crappy little cliche that you picked
up God knows where. Look, I have been studying how anyone could
be like you and since you refuse to send a sample of your brain
to me (we know the reason, don't we Boji? Don't we?). So, where
was I? O yes... I have just heard on the evening news something
that makes something a bit urgent. Apparently earthling humans
did not quite go from Habilis to Erectus as has been thought and
there is confusion at the moment over the issue. Please hand
yourself in to the nearest police station for examination by the
authorities. Not just for yourself or me. For science. Have some
respect and just do it. Officer White will be there to beat the
crap out of you (but this you know) before you are bundled into a
van and taken to a lab for dissection. The results will be
forwarded to TI for inclusion in a footnote to the alt stats.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:48:09
GMT dorayme scribed:

>> > So I tell a feller to look at what he _has_ earned per hour and
>> > charge that if he _must_ charge an hourly rate and you assert
>> > that this would be so confusing to the OP that it must be
>> > explained by you in terms of Australia. You are a schmuck and you
>> > have been told before to be nice and you will see the response
>> > accordingly. ....
>>
>> I wonder why we argue so much. Perhaps we are a lot alike...
>>
>
> Keep it up, just keep talking absolute crap and never ever face a
> relevant issue head on. Never deal with pressing matters, just
> always flip around to some crappy little cliche that you picked
> up God knows where. Look, I have been studying how anyone could
> be like you and since you refuse to send a sample of your brain
> to me (we know the reason, don't we Boji? Don't we?). So, where
> was I? O yes... I have just heard on the evening news something
> that makes something a bit urgent. Apparently earthling humans
> did not quite go from Habilis to Erectus as has been thought and
> there is confusion at the moment over the issue.

That isn't particularly surprising to me. Simple logic suggests that
prior to erectus, there had to be something like stroktus or fellationis
to trigger the evolutionary advancement.

> Please hand
> yourself in to the nearest police station for examination by the
> authorities. Not just for yourself or me. For science. Have some
> respect and just do it. Officer White will be there to beat the
> crap out of you (but this you know) before you are bundled into a
> van and taken to a lab for dissection. The results will be
> forwarded to TI for inclusion in a footnote to the alt stats.

Sure, I'll run right over to the nearest municipal police facility and
tell them I'm turning myself in because some lady in Australia has a
screw loose. That ought to amuse them no end.

--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.

Re: How much to US developers charge

> Take what you charge in your country and convert it to US Dollars.

I dont charge clients per hour, never have, despite having 100+ clients. Ive
also never been given a project in such a mess before.

I reckon we'll go with a $60/hour figure, seems about right, not too
expensive, and fair.

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article ,
kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net says...

>
> Can you elaborate then on what you mean by "bottom line"?
>
> Most top companies for whom I've worked and dealt with price out their
> designers and developers easily into triple figures; $120 or $125 per
> hour is not all that uncommon.
>
> Granted, those individuals may only see half of (if) that in their
> paychecks. Perhaps that's what you mean by "bottom line"...
>
>
$120+ is way too high. In Chicago, $75 - 80 is at the high end for
straight HTML, $50 is the average. For PHP or ASP, the average is
around $70 - 75/hour.

Re: How much to US developers charge

In article ,
"Romper" wrote:

> > Take what you charge in your country and convert it to US Dollars.
>
> I dont charge clients per hour, never have, despite having 100+ clients.

Yes you do _in effect_. It takes you a certain number of hours to
complete jobs. Right? And you get a certain amount of money for
those jobs? Right? And you must have at least some idea of what
that figure is, surely. Now, that would seem to me a much more
reasonable and accurate way of fixing a figure for your own
situation than getting people to pluck figures out of the air, to
tell you the absurd and confusing range of possibilities at play
in the US.

--
dorayme

Re: How much to US developers charge

SAZ wrote:
> In article ,
> kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net says...
>
>> Can you elaborate then on what you mean by "bottom line"?
>>
>> Most top companies for whom I've worked and dealt with price out their
>> designers and developers easily into triple figures; $120 or $125 per
>> hour is not all that uncommon.
>>
>> Granted, those individuals may only see half of (if) that in their
>> paychecks. Perhaps that's what you mean by "bottom line"...
>>
>>
> $120+ is way too high. In Chicago, $75 - 80 is at the high end for
> straight HTML, $50 is the average. For PHP or ASP, the average is
> around $70 - 75/hour.

You will note that I specified these figures as those that Web solutions
companies dole out. I've seen it many times, from several such
companies. However, certainly the figures you state are more in line
with an individual freelancer/consultant, yes.

--

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
Kevin Scholl http://www.ksscholl.com/
kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
the dreams...
======================================================