Hello All:
I have a small site under development, I was trying to make a tag-
cloud page and it can be accessed (for testing purposes, not complete
yet!) at
http://www.stutimandal.com/tags.php
I am disappointed with the look and feel of links. I want to increase
the line spacing, and I wonder if I need to switch from
Scripsit Corn Flakes:
> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
> I am disappointed with the look and feel of links.
What links? Are there links on the page? There is nothing that looks like a
link.
> I want to increase the line spacing,
So it's not a cloud, it's just a sequence of lines with font size variation
inside them.
> and I wonder if I need to switch from
On Aug 12, 2:57 pm, "Jukka K. Korpela"
> Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>
> > I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>
> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
If you are having a bad sunday, you can buy those "hit me" balloon-
toys.
On Aug 12, 2:46 pm, Corn Flakes
> Hello All:
>
> I have a small site under development, I was trying to make a tag-
> cloud page and it can be accessed (for testing purposes, not complete
> yet!) at
>
> http://www.stutimandal.com/tags.php
>
> I am disappointed with the look and feel of links. I want to increase
> the line spacing, and I wonder if I need to switch from
Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>
>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>
> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
Nobody asked you to.
You posted to a public discussion forum. I explained why your idea is wrong.
That's how discussions go. If they sometimes happen to answer the question
you asked, stay alert: there is no guarantee that the answer is correct, or
that it makes anything any better.
If you're dissatisfied with this service, you can discontinue your
subscription and ask for a refund.
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>
>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>
>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>
>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>
> Nobody asked you to.
>
> You posted to a public discussion forum. I explained why your idea is
> wrong. That's how discussions go.
With all respect Yukka, you didn't explain or discussed why tag-clouds
are wrong. You said that web-pages are supposed to be useable, which is
true, but a tag-cloud can help to make a web-site very useable. So
tag-clouds are very helpful to access the content on a web-site. Please
note the difference between a page and a site, and the OP is using a
tag-cloud in a similar manner as a sitemap: as an element belonging to
the metanavigation. This has nothing to do with the webpages being
'puzzles' as you argued.
cheers
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>
>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>
>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>
>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>
> Nobody asked you to.
>
What is your "why" doing up there?
Scripsit Animesh K:
> Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>> Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>>
>>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>>
>>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>>
>>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>>
>> Nobody asked you to.
>
> What is your "why" doing up there?
It's a question about motivation. If you take it as a request to argue,
that's your choice, but nobody asked you, or "Corn Flakes", to argue.
(I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full name
to be _able_ to argue.)
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:20
GMT Jukka K. Korpela scribed:
> Scripsit Animesh K:
>>>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>>>
>>> Nobody asked you to.
>>
>> What is your "why" doing up there?
>
> It's a question about motivation. If you take it as a request to
> argue, that's your choice, but nobody asked you, or "Corn Flakes", to
> argue.
>
> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full
> name to be _able_ to argue.)
Perhaps you should let the lad vent. The last thing we need is another
cereal killer.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
"Neredbojias"
news:Xns998C7F7D6641nanopandaneredbojias@198.186.190.161...
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:20
> GMT Jukka K. Korpela scribed:
>> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full
>> name to be _able_ to argue.)
>
> Perhaps you should let the lad vent. The last thing we need is another
> cereal killer.
And I was going to say that lots of good stuff [1] comes out of cornflake
packets.
You _must_ search the tag cloud for one that leads to a 404 (anything past
the first page). They *demand* your email address before they let you tell
them about it. Don't they ever look at error.log? :-)
[1] HTML degrees, drezigner licences, tag clouds, ...
--
Richard.
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:05:02
GMT rf scribed:
>>> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her
>>> full name to be _able_ to argue.)
>>
>> Perhaps you should let the lad vent. The last thing we need is
>> another cereal killer.
>
>
> And I was going to say that lots of good stuff [1] comes out of
> cornflake packets.
Yeah. Probably dorayme, fer instance...
> You _must_ search the tag cloud for one that leads to a 404 (anything
> past the first page). They *demand* your email address before they let
> you tell them about it. Don't they ever look at error.log? :-)
>
> [1] HTML degrees, drezigner licences, tag clouds, ...
Do you realize that I have absolutely no idea what a "tag cloud" is?
Somebody was talking about a "cron job" the other day, too, and -phffft!
But ignorance is bliss, -at least in the sense that I hardly need any more
things to cause me aggravation.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Animesh K:
>
>> Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>>> Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>>>
>>>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>>>
>>> Nobody asked you to.
>>
>> What is your "why" doing up there?
>
> It's a question about motivation. If you take it as a request to argue,
> that's your choice, but nobody asked you, or "Corn Flakes", to argue.
>
> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full
> name to be _able_ to argue.)
>
Your why followed with an explanation that web pages are supposed to be
useful. Which basically means (to a random reader, not you) that you are
telling tag clouds are not useful (or at least you don't know why it is
useful).
If names did the trick, precious.com should be the leading website ---
rather than google or orkut. Such useless generalizations don't lead
anyone anywhere.
Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:20
> GMT Jukka K. Korpela scribed:
>
>> Scripsit Animesh K:
>>>>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>>>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>>>> Nobody asked you to.
>>> What is your "why" doing up there?
>> It's a question about motivation. If you take it as a request to
>> argue, that's your choice, but nobody asked you, or "Corn Flakes", to
>> argue.
>>
>> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full
>> name to be _able_ to argue.)
>
> Perhaps you should let the lad vent. The last thing we need is another
> cereal killer.
>
That lad is me. I was toying with google groups a few month ago and took
that as a handle. I forgot to change it. I changed it as soon as I
noticed it.
I am not venting any anger. You should see what Jukka's replies were to
my questions. Either he was unaware of the answers, or he was wasting
his time.
rf wrote:
> "Neredbojias"
> news:Xns998C7F7D6641nanopandaneredbojias@198.186.190.161...
>> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:04:20
>> GMT Jukka K. Korpela scribed:
>
>>> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full
>>> name to be _able_ to argue.)
>> Perhaps you should let the lad vent. The last thing we need is another
>> cereal killer.
>
>
>
> And I was going to say that lots of good stuff [1] comes out of cornflake
> packets.
>
> You _must_ search the tag cloud for one that leads to a 404 (anything past
> the first page). They *demand* your email address before they let you tell
> them about it. Don't they ever look at error.log? :-)
>
> [1] HTML degrees, drezigner licences, tag clouds, ...
>
You suffer from selective reading. I had mentioned that the website is
under development right now [Quote -> it can be accessed (for testing
purposes, not complete yet!)].
The 404 behavior can of course be changed. But I am getting enough spam
from the contact form right now. If I remove the email id field, I will
get them even more. If you are worried, you can just enter
unknown@nosite.com and it should work.
Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:05:02
>
> Do you realize that I have absolutely no idea what a "tag cloud" is?
> Somebody was talking about a "cron job" the other day, too, and -phffft!
> But ignorance is bliss, -at least in the sense that I hardly need any more
> things to cause me aggravation.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Scripsit Corn Flakes:
>
>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>
>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>
>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>
> Nobody asked you to.
>
> You posted to a public discussion forum. I explained why your idea is
> wrong.
Actually, you didn't. You made the general observation that web pages
are supposed to be usable (to the OP--Jukka wrote "usable", not
"useful"), implying that tag clouds aren't but without explaining why.
I gather, though, that you also do think they aren't useful I'm curious
why you feel this use of compact visual cues is neither useful nor usable.
Animesh K wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
"A tag cloud is a set of related tags with corresponding weights.
Typical tag clouds have between 30 and 150 tags."
Yesss ... I can see myself looking through a mess such as the pictured
sample on that page, looking for "Purchase" ...
Hopefully, Google will have other sites that sell the same product.
If it is for your personal site, have fun.
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Animesh K wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
>
> "A tag cloud is a set of related tags with corresponding weights.
> Typical tag clouds have between 30 and 150 tags."
>
> Yesss ... I can see myself looking through a mess such as the pictured
> sample on that page, looking for "Purchase" ...
>
> Hopefully, Google will have other sites that sell the same product.
>
> If it is for your personal site, have fun.
>
Text tag clouds are sorted alphabetically and they worked for me on
three-four websites. That's why I thought of having it. A tag cloud,
irrespective of being dense or tricky, is better than having no filter
method. Tags are getting pretty standard at blogs. Those who use gmail
also use labels (another name for tags).
A new method can be embraced or refused. It is your choice.
Animesh K wrote:
> A new method can be embraced or refused. It is your choice.
It is my choice, you are correct.
(Now where is that other site that also sells widgets... one that can be
navigated with some ease.)
Don't get me wrong. As I said, if this is a personal site, do what you
please. Since your example seems to be about poetry (I don't read the
language), maybe it is ok... but not for any kind of business or
information site.
--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Animesh K wrote:
>
>> A new method can be embraced or refused. It is your choice.
>
> It is my choice, you are correct.
>
> (Now where is that other site that also sells widgets... one that can be
> navigated with some ease.)
>
> Don't get me wrong. As I said, if this is a personal site, do what you
> please. Since your example seems to be about poetry (I don't read the
> language), maybe it is ok... but not for any kind of business or
> information site.
>
I think the obfuscation is due to an Indian language. If I wrote
"Wordsworth" "Flowers" "Shakespeare" "Solitude" "Carroll" and so on, I
think you would find it useful too.
For business sites, I am unsure about its usage. In certain yellowpages
like directory, these clouds can be useful.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>
> Don't get me wrong. As I said, if this is a personal site, do what you
> please. Since your example seems to be about poetry (I don't read the
> language), maybe it is ok... but not for any kind of business or
> information site.
>
errm... a lot of 'business or information' websites are using tag-clouds
as a mean of a metanavigational element. check out:
http://www.spiegel.de
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/
http://del.icio.us/tag/
http://www.istockphoto.com
....
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Bernhard Sturm wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>> Don't get me wrong. As I said, if this is a personal site, do what you
>> please. Since your example seems to be about poetry (I don't read the
>> language), maybe it is ok... but not for any kind of business or
>> information site.
>>
> errm... a lot of 'business or information' websites are using tag-clouds
> as a mean of a metanavigational element. check out:
>
> http://www.spiegel.de
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/
> http://del.icio.us/tag/
> http://www.istockphoto.com
> ...
>
I think by business BTS meant sites which actually sell something (and
ship it to you). He didn't mean personal data organizer or personal
interaction type websites.
Animesh K wrote:
> Bernhard Sturm wrote:
>> errm... a lot of 'business or information' websites are using
>> tag-clouds as a mean of a metanavigational element. check out:
>>
>> http://www.spiegel.de
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/
>> http://del.icio.us/tag/
>> http://www.istockphoto.com
>> ...
>>
>
> I think by business BTS meant sites which actually sell something (and
> ship it to you). He didn't mean personal data organizer or personal
> interaction type websites.
sorry, now I am confused. Did you visited any of the above sites, or are
you just guessing?
Doesn't DER SPIEGEL sell it's news? FYI: this is one of the largest
news-magazins worldwide. SPIEGEL ONLINE is the market leader for
news-portals (including their hourly produced online-tv-broadcasts).
Associated to DER SPIEGEL is manager magazin and Harvard
Businessmanager. You have to pay for using their news-services...
And for iStockPhoto: Have you ever visited the site? You have to pay if
you want to use their services...
If you really want the company, that is after the bucks, then check this
tag-cloud (yes, the one company, that also people in the US know about):
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Tags-Cloud.aspx
(and don't tell me ever again, that tag-clouds are for personal data
organizer websites only :-)
HTH
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
In article
"Jukka K. Korpela"
> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full name
> to be _able_ to argue.)
This is an interesting thought. Do arguments need an authority
behind them to add to their force? I would say a good argument
stands on its merits, just as a good picture does. If you have to
look behind an argument to see who said it, it usually means you
are not impressed with the argument itself.
--
dorayme
In article
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
> Animesh K wrote:
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
>
> "A tag cloud is a set of related tags with corresponding weights.
> Typical tag clouds have between 30 and 150 tags."
>
> Yesss ... I can see myself looking through a mess such as the pictured
> sample on that page, looking for "Purchase" ...
>
Indeed, it looked like an awful mess!
--
dorayme
Bernhard Sturm wrote:
> Animesh K wrote:
>> Bernhard Sturm wrote:
>
>>> errm... a lot of 'business or information' websites are using
>>> tag-clouds as a mean of a metanavigational element. check out:
>>>
>>> http://www.spiegel.de
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/
>>> http://del.icio.us/tag/
>>> http://www.istockphoto.com
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>> I think by business BTS meant sites which actually sell something (and
>> ship it to you). He didn't mean personal data organizer or personal
>> interaction type websites.
>
> sorry, now I am confused. Did you visited any of the above sites, or are
> you just guessing?
> Doesn't DER SPIEGEL sell it's news? FYI: this is one of the largest
> news-magazins worldwide. SPIEGEL ONLINE is the market leader for
> news-portals (including their hourly produced online-tv-broadcasts).
> Associated to DER SPIEGEL is manager magazin and Harvard
> Businessmanager. You have to pay for using their news-services...
> And for iStockPhoto: Have you ever visited the site? You have to pay if
> you want to use their services...
>
> If you really want the company, that is after the bucks, then check this
> tag-cloud (yes, the one company, that also people in the US know about):
>
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Tags-Cloud.aspx
>
> (and don't tell me ever again, that tag-clouds are for personal data
> organizer websites only :-)
>
> HTH
> bernhard
>
If you read carefully, I said "I think ..." Certainly I don't know
what's in the mind of BTS.
Again for selling, I said sites which "ship" (like amazon, dell etc.)
unlike companies which sell soft products or data organization tools.
As far as usability of tag-cloud goes, I have stressed before that I
found them usable and that's am trying to incorporate them. Btw, one
question: Do you think links in tag-clouds should be underlined? Jukka
did have a point that nothing looks like a hyperlink ... and I think
underlines improve the reading (at least they tell which words are grouped).
In article
Bernhard Sturm
> If you really want the company, that is after the bucks, then check this
> tag-cloud (yes, the one company, that also people in the US know about):
>
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Tags-Cloud.aspx
In this case there are just a few links. Many tidier link lists
would be as good. Where there are a real lot, it looks messy and
hard to find things. Honestly, what is the argument for them
besides that some big companies use them?
--
dorayme
Animesh K wrote:
>
> Again for selling, I said sites which "ship" (like amazon, dell etc.)
> unlike companies which sell soft products or data organization tools.
What would be the difference for products you can ship against products
you can download in relation to tag-clouds?
> Btw, one
> question: Do you think links in tag-clouds should be underlined? Jukka
> did have a point that nothing looks like a hyperlink ... and I think
> underlines improve the reading (at least they tell which words are
> grouped).
Who said that links need to be underlined? It all depends on the way how
you visually communicate all other links on your site. In general you
should not disturb your visitors by introducing different ways of
link-styles. If you have introduced a consistent link-style at your
website (that is well distinguishable as a link-style), then you should
also use this visual style for your tag cloud links. Consistency is the
keyword to usability and not 'underline every link'.
cheers
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Bernhard Sturm wrote:
> Animesh K wrote:
>>
>> Again for selling, I said sites which "ship" (like amazon, dell etc.)
>> unlike companies which sell soft products or data organization tools.
>
> What would be the difference for products you can ship against products
> you can download in relation to tag-clouds?
If I go to flickr and view a photo under flowers category, chances are I
am interested in nature's photos. So a tag cloud with landscapes,
seascapes, mountains etc. can be shown to me for further viewing.
If I am customizing a Dell computer, or buying a mouse at buy.com, where
and what will be the nature of tag-cloud? Unless you have other
suggestions.... I haven't seen a site selling stuff with a tag-cloud yet.
As far as I understand, data has relational properties, while objects of
purchase --- though related --- are pretty different. Amazon does have a
nice model to show related purchases (What do people buy eventually who
look at this item?). But this is very different from a tag-cloud.
>
>> Btw, one question: Do you think links in tag-clouds should be
>> underlined? Jukka did have a point that nothing looks like a hyperlink
>> ... and I think underlines improve the reading (at least they tell
>> which words are grouped).
>
> Who said that links need to be underlined? It all depends on the way how
Nobody said so. It is a convention however and usually links are styled
differently than text. If a page has no text but only links, a new or
non-net savvy user will get confused.
> you visually communicate all other links on your site. In general you
> should not disturb your visitors by introducing different ways of
> link-styles. If you have introduced a consistent link-style at your
> website (that is well distinguishable as a link-style), then you should
> also use this visual style for your tag cloud links. Consistency is the
> keyword to usability and not 'underline every link'.
True true! So underlining makes sense at my site since I use icons for
4-5 common tasks and underlined links for other. Thank you.
>
> cheers
> bernhard
>
dorayme wrote:
> In article
> Bernhard Sturm
>
>> If you really want the company, that is after the bucks, then check this
>> tag-cloud (yes, the one company, that also people in the US know about):
>>
>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Tags-Cloud.aspx
>
> In this case there are just a few links. Many tidier link lists
> would be as good. Where there are a real lot, it looks messy and
> hard to find things. Honestly, what is the argument for them
> besides that some big companies use them?
>
Compactness, certainly. The text size tells their popularity. They are
alphabetically organized and hence easy to find (if you know what you
are looking for).
dorayme wrote:
> In article
> Bernhard Sturm
>
>> If you really want the company, that is after the bucks, then check this
>> tag-cloud (yes, the one company, that also people in the US know about):
>>
>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Tags-Cloud.aspx
>
> In this case there are just a few links. Many tidier link lists
> would be as good. Where there are a real lot, it looks messy and
> hard to find things. Honestly, what is the argument for them
> besides that some big companies use them?
>
And in my case, there is one more use. Because I am publishing Sanskrit
poems on my website, the words don't have a well-defined spelling in
English. So I can't make a search box easily -- for example, Adi, Aadhi,
Adhi, Aadi, AaDhi all mean the same word depending on which part of
India you are from. These tag pages simplify the search-feature
significantly (both for the user and for me).
dorayme wrote:
>
> In this case there are just a few links. Many tidier link lists
> would be as good. Where there are a real lot, it looks messy and
> hard to find things. Honestly, what is the argument for them
> besides that some big companies use them?
>
humm.. I see tag clouds as another metanavigational aid. Usually tag
clouds represent a semantic-map over a specific topic. They are indeed
messy as this is the keypoint in a tag cloud: you have a lot of various
words that are related with each other. The strength of the relationship
is usally marked by the position, weight or size of the words. They can
help you to get the most related topics out of a search criteria, and
showing you all loosely related information at the same time, and they
do help you by widdening your search through a special topic of
interest. Tag clouds are not only restricted to words only, but can also
be represented by images.
Libraries and encyclopedia are using tag clouds in order to provide a
different and probably more efficient overview over a certain topic.
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:24:33
GMT Animesh K scribed:
>> Do you realize that I have absolutely no idea what a "tag cloud" is?
>> Somebody was talking about a "cron job" the other day, too, and
>> -phffft! But ignorance is bliss, -at least in the sense that I
>> hardly need any more things to cause me aggravation.
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
Thanks, Animesh. I'm afraid I have to say that my reaction is rather like
Beauregard's (-peeked ahead), though. Now I'll read the rest of the
opinions.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
In article
Animesh K
> dorayme wrote:
> > In article
> > Bernhard Sturm
> >
> >> If you really want the company, that is after the bucks, then check this
> >> tag-cloud (yes, the one company, that also people in the US know about):
> >>
> >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/Tags-Cloud.aspx
> >
> > In this case there are just a few links. Many tidier link lists
> > would be as good. Where there are a real lot, it looks messy and
> > hard to find things. Honestly, what is the argument for them
> > besides that some big companies use them?
> >
>
> Compactness, certainly. The text size tells their popularity. They are
> alphabetically organized and hence easy to find (if you know what you
> are looking for).
Yes, I see. I like that it wraps with browser size but I think it
gets harder to use on bigger text sizes aside from being uglier
then. Anyway, an interesting way of ordering things.
Perhaps we should object that here essentially is a list or table
(alpha in one col and popularity index in another col) being
formatted for visual users only.
--
dorayme
Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:24:33
> GMT Animesh K scribed:
>
>>> Do you realize that I have absolutely no idea what a "tag cloud" is?
>>> Somebody was talking about a "cron job" the other day, too, and
>>> -phffft! But ignorance is bliss, -at least in the sense that I
>>> hardly need any more things to cause me aggravation.
>>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
>
> Thanks, Animesh. I'm afraid I have to say that my reaction is rather like
> Beauregard's (-peeked ahead), though. Now I'll read the rest of the
> opinions.
>
That was just to tell whether tag-cloud is a known "category
presentation" trick. Their examples aren't the best and Wiki has a
"brush icon" to denote that the article needs to be improved.
Look into some examples that Bernhard gave.
Animesh K wrote:
>
> If I am customizing a Dell computer, or buying a mouse at buy.com, where
> and what will be the nature of tag-cloud? Unless you have other
> suggestions.... I haven't seen a site selling stuff with a tag-cloud yet.
Maybe you haven't seen it, but you can imagine its application: if you
buy a computer at an online-shop for electronic devices you might also
want to buy the speakers or a TFT-panel or a backup solution, but you
might not be that interested in buying power cords as they are more
loosely related to your tag 'computer'... So here you go: another
application for a tag cloud.
for an example see: http://www.magneticone.com/store/
or for sunglasses see: http://www.sugos.de/tags/alltags.php/sugos
If it's information then you can generate a tag cloud regardless if you
can download it or ship it, don't limit yourself too much :-)
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:18:01 GMT
Animesh K scribed:
>>>>>>>> I was trying to make a tag-cloud page
>>>>>>> Why? Web pages are supposed to be useable, not puzzles.
>>>>>> I don't want to argue why tags or tag-clouds are useful.
>>>>> Nobody asked you to.
>>>> What is your "why" doing up there?
>>> It's a question about motivation. If you take it as a request to
>>> argue, that's your choice, but nobody asked you, or "Corn Flakes", to
>>> argue.
>>>
>>> (I don't expect a person claiming "Corn Flakes" to be his or her full
>>> name to be _able_ to argue.)
>>
>> Perhaps you should let the lad vent. The last thing we need is another
>> cereal killer.
>>
>
> That lad is me. I was toying with google groups a few month ago and took
> that as a handle. I forgot to change it. I changed it as soon as I
> noticed it.
There's nothing wrong with Corn Flakes unless they're overmilked.
> I am not venting any anger. You should see what Jukka's replies were to
> my questions. Either he was unaware of the answers, or he was wasting
> his time.
I know, I was just making a joke. Jukka can be obstreporous at times, and
someone once suggested it might have something to do with the weather in
Finland.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
Bernhard Sturm wrote:
> Animesh K wrote:
>
>
> for an example see: http://www.magneticone.com/store/
> or for sunglasses see: http://www.sugos.de/tags/alltags.php/sugos
>
> If it's information then you can generate a tag cloud regardless if you
> can download it or ship it, don't limit yourself too much :-)
>
Agreed. You were (and you are) right about their usage in a commercial
setting too.
Neredbojias wrote:
> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:18:01 GMT
>> That lad is me. I was toying with google groups a few month ago and took
>> that as a handle. I forgot to change it. I changed it as soon as I
>> noticed it.
>
> There's nothing wrong with Corn Flakes unless they're overmilked.
>
Just wondering if you ever said that to a woman!
"Animesh K"
news:f9svg9$87q$4@agate.berkeley.edu...
> rf wrote:
>> "Neredbojias"
>> news:Xns998C7F7D6641nanopandaneredbojias@198.186.190.161...
>> You _must_ search the tag cloud for one that leads to a 404 (anything
>> past the first page). They *demand* your email address before they let
>> you tell them about it. Don't they ever look at error.log? :-)
> You suffer from selective reading. I had mentioned that the website is
> under development right now [Quote -> it can be accessed (for testing
> purposes, not complete yet!)].
You suffer from missing the point.
If your 404 page demands an email address I will simply not bother. Not even
to type in an invalid one. It is, after all, me doing you a service. And, as
I pointed out, you should already know about the 404 from your server logs.
--
Richard.
rf wrote:
> "Animesh K"
> news:f9svg9$87q$4@agate.berkeley.edu...
>> rf wrote:
>>> "Neredbojias"
>>> news:Xns998C7F7D6641nanopandaneredbojias@198.186.190.161...
>
>>> You _must_ search the tag cloud for one that leads to a 404 (anything
>>> past the first page). They *demand* your email address before they let
>>> you tell them about it. Don't they ever look at error.log? :-)
>
>> You suffer from selective reading. I had mentioned that the website is
>> under development right now [Quote -> it can be accessed (for testing
>> purposes, not complete yet!)].
>
> You suffer from missing the point.
>
> If your 404 page demands an email address I will simply not bother. Not even
> to type in an invalid one. It is, after all, me doing you a service. And, as
> I pointed out, you should already know about the 404 from your server logs.
>
It depends how you look at it. Right now the page is being tested so
there are a few broken links (or rather functions).
In the previous version, for which that 404 page was designed, there was
no broken link, so it was really to help the stumbler out. (Say if
someone posts a wrong link in some forum, for example). Whenever I added
a link, I made sure it works.
I will check out the server log, but I haven't done that in the past.
That may be a better tool, I guess, than depending on user's feedback.
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:55:08
GMT Animesh K scribed:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_cloud
>>
>> Thanks, Animesh. I'm afraid I have to say that my reaction is rather
>> like Beauregard's (-peeked ahead), though. Now I'll read the rest of
>> the opinions.
>>
>
> That was just to tell whether tag-cloud is a known "category
> presentation" trick. Their examples aren't the best and Wiki has a
> "brush icon" to denote that the article needs to be improved.
>
> Look into some examples that Bernhard gave.
Well, I suppose a good design man can come with something useful on
occasion. It's not worth arguing about, though. I don't like to argue,
you know.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:07:08
GMT Animesh K scribed:
> Neredbojias wrote:
>> Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Tue, 14 Aug 2007
>> 19:18:01 GMT
>
>>> That lad is me. I was toying with google groups a few month ago and
>>> took that as a handle. I forgot to change it. I changed it as soon
>>> as I noticed it.
>>
>> There's nothing wrong with Corn Flakes unless they're overmilked.
>>
>
> Just wondering if you ever said that to a woman!
....Not if I wanted to get laid.
--
Neredbojias
Half lies are worth twice as much as whole lies.
Bernhard Sturm wrote:
> Animesh K wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen a site selling stuff with a tag-cloud yet.
>
> for sunglasses see: http://www.sugos.de/tags/alltags.php/sugos
I think this is a good example of how terrible a tag-cloud can be. A
long horizontal list is soooooooo hard to read. If they had used list
markup, it might be tolerable with CSS disabled, but as is it's awful.
I can't say you've convinced me of their good points yet.
--
Berg
Bergamot wrote:
> Bernhard Sturm wrote:
>> Animesh K wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen a site selling stuff with a tag-cloud yet.
>> for sunglasses see: http://www.sugos.de/tags/alltags.php/sugos
>
> I think this is a good example of how terrible a tag-cloud can be. A
> long horizontal list is soooooooo hard to read. If they had used list
> markup, it might be tolerable with CSS disabled, but as is it's awful.
>
> I can't say you've convinced me of their good points yet.
>
:-) you don't need to be convinced. Some people are not using sitemaps
others find search-boxes awful. I was just pointing out, that tag clouds
are being used by a lot of 'big' websites as a navigational-aid.
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Bergamot wrote:
> Bernhard Sturm wrote:
>> Animesh K wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen a site selling stuff with a tag-cloud yet.
>> for sunglasses see: http://www.sugos.de/tags/alltags.php/sugos
>
> I think this is a good example of how terrible a tag-cloud can be. A
> long horizontal list is soooooooo hard to read. If they had used list
> markup, it might be tolerable with CSS disabled, but as is it's awful.
just out of curiosity what were you looking for in the tag cloud that
you found it awful?
bernhard
--
www.daszeichen.ch
remove nixspam to reply
Bernhard Sturm wrote:
> Bergamot wrote:
>> Bernhard Sturm wrote:
>>> for sunglasses see: http://www.sugos.de/tags/alltags.php/sugos
>>
>> it might be tolerable with CSS disabled, but as is it's awful.
>
> just out of curiosity what were you looking for in the tag cloud that
> you found it awful?
My brain can't parse anything on that page. It's just a big jumble of
letters.
--
Berg