Hi,
Is it possible to have a remote/external link (within an iframe) to
load in a new window when clicked?
In Safari, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Adding target="_blank"
to the anchor seems to do exactly what I would expect, but when I test
this theory in Firefox, it load the remote site in the parent window.
Does this seemingly simple problem have a solution?
Cheers,
In article
<1188970724.287358.23450@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
marckatsambis@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is it possible to have a remote/external link (within an iframe) to
> load in a new window when clicked?
>
> In Safari, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Adding target="_blank"
> to the anchor seems to do exactly what I would expect, but when I test
> this theory in Firefox, it load the remote site in the parent window.
>
> Does this seemingly simple problem have a solution?
>
> Cheers,
Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
for not knowing about the evils of _blank
--
dorayme
> Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
> new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
> for not knowing about the evils of _blank
>
> --
> dorayme
Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
it is meant to.
What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
_blank evil? What should I use instead?
In article
<1188973711.175101.108210@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
marckatsambis@gmail.com wrote:
> > Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
> > new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
> > for not knowing about the evils of _blank
> >
> > --
> > dorayme
>
> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
> it is meant to.
>
You do not say what her prefs are or yours?
> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
> _blank evil? What should I use instead?
I have:
I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
Options. Google up for it. you might like it.
About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
up and you can choose how to open a link, in a separate window,
in a tab, in the same window, on the toilet roll, wherever.
On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
In fact, there was a court case recently where a woman died of a
heart attack from the surprise, another (a man this time) died
from going into cataclysmic spasms from the confusion. The
defence tried to call an "expert witness", but it did no good
when the court heard that he had recently been seen skiing in
purple pants trying to outrun the police. The deceased's family
cleaned up.
--
dorayme
"dorayme"
news:doraymeRidThis-2BF7ED.16595705092007@news-vip.optusnet. com.au...
> In article
> <1188973711.175101.108210@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> marckatsambis@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> > Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
>> > new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
>> > for not knowing about the evils of _blank
>> >
>> > --
>> > dorayme
>>
>> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
>> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
>> it is meant to.
>>
>
> You do not say what her prefs are or yours?
>
>> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
>> _blank evil? What should I use instead?
>
> I have:
>
>
>
> I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
> Options. Google up for it. you might like it.
>
> About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
> too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
> looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
> he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
> can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
> up and you can choose how to open a link, in a separate window,
> in a tab, in the same window, on the toilet roll, wherever.
>
> On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
> complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
> might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
>
> In fact, there was a court case recently where a woman died of a
> heart attack from the surprise, another (a man this time) died
> from going into cataclysmic spasms from the confusion. The
> defence tried to call an "expert witness", but it did no good
> when the court heard that he had recently been seen skiing in
> purple pants trying to outrun the police. The deceased's family
> cleaned up.
>
My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
another window/tab.
+mrcakey
mrcakey wrote:
IMHO, I don't think there's
> anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
> another window/tab.
Huh? T&C?
> T&C Post-Overhaul Test & Certification
> T&C Telemetry and Command
> T&C Terms & Conditions
> T&C Testing and Certification
> T&C Thoracic and Cervical
> T&C Threaded & Coupled
> T&C Time and Cost
> T&C Town and Country Surf Designs
> T&C Track Correlation
> T&C Training and Certification
> T&C Training and Competence
> T&C transfer and convertibility (risk/insurance)
> T&C Transition and Cutover
I don't see anything inherently evil about it, either, if the information
is truly incidental. But there is _usually_ a better way to do it.
http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo.html
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssmaps
mrcakey wrote:
> "dorayme"
> news:doraymeRidThis-2BF7ED.16595705092007@news-vip.optusnet. com.au...
>> In article
>> <1188973711.175101.108210@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>> marckatsambis@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
>>> _blank evil? What should I use instead?
>>
>> On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
>> complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
>> might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
>>
>
> My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
> educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
> use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
> think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
> anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
> another window/tab.
Do you have to tell them over and over how to use the Back button? If
yes, then Web use is not for them, and if no, then they are equipped
with a solution for links which open in the same window as content they
wanted to see again.
But why should the people who do know how to open extra windows when
they want to be the ones who are penalized for the extra knowledge?
Usually I can tell when I want a separate window, so I can open it
myself. When I guess wrong, I can close the extra window I don't want,
or use the Back button and re-open the link in a separate window, as needed.
--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/
In article
"mrcakey"
> >> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
> >> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
> >> it is meant to.
> >>
> >
> > You do not say what her prefs are or yours?
> >
You still are not saying what your prefs are set at?
> >> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
> >> _blank evil? What should I use instead?
> >
> > I have:
> >
> >
> >
> > I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
> > Options. Google up for it. you might like it.
> >
> > About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
> > too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
> > looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
> > he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
> > can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
> > up and you can choose how to open a link,...
> >
> > On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
> > complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
> > might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
> >
> >
>
> My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
> educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
> use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
> think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
> anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
> another window/tab.
I am not urging a blanket ban on trying to force extra windows. I
say "try" because you will not always succeed in getting what you
might imagine as an author. I have some browsers set to open
_blanks in tabs. (At least this imposes an order and limits my
irritability when it is mandated for no particular sound reason).
There could be some cases where it is appropriate. There is even
some cases where I actually find javascript pop ups very useful.
My tone is one of caution on this, not Talibanic edicting
(followed, of course, by stoning and public flogging and ugly
satisfaction).
About your audience and knowledge of mice and commands and
general browser skills, it may pay to look more empirically
rather than intuitively at the issue of which is more confusing
to the unskilled, windows popping up on a screen that obscure
other windows and calling for a level of knowledge of window
management on the part of the user or simply relying on the skill
of using the back button or clicking a navigational link on the
*one* page. Anyway, think about it and no more abstract
discussion, we need cases to continue.
About my sites, no, you are mistaken, I speak to the downtrodden,
the lonely, the poor, the refugees, the uneducated. It is
impossible not to feel compassion. My problem is trying to
concentrate while crying my heart out. My family, with only one
or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
for being serial public nuisances.
--
dorayme
On Sep 6, 8:34 am, dorayme
> In article
>
> "mrcakey"
> > >> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
> > >> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
> > >> it is meant to.
>
> > > You do not say what her prefs are or yours?
>
> You still are not saying what your prefs are set at?
>
>
>
> > >> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
> > >> _blank evil? What should I use instead?
>
> > > I have:
>
> > >
>
> > > I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
> > > Options. Google up for it. you might like it.
>
> > > About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
> > > too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
> > > looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
> > > he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
> > > can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
> > > up and you can choose how to open a link,...
>
> > > On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
> > > complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
> > > might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
>
> > My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mos=
tly
> > educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit ho=
w to
> > use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
> > think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think th=
ere's
> > anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C'=
s, in
> > another window/tab.
>
> I am not urging a blanket ban on trying to force extra windows. I
> say "try" because you will not always succeed in getting what you
> might imagine as an author. I have some browsers set to open
> _blanks in tabs. (At least this imposes an order and limits my
> irritability when it is mandated for no particular sound reason).
> There could be some cases where it is appropriate. There is even
> some cases where I actually find javascript pop ups very useful.
> My tone is one of caution on this, not Talibanic edicting
> (followed, of course, by stoning and public flogging and ugly
> satisfaction).
>
> About your audience and knowledge of mice and commands and
> general browser skills, it may pay to look more empirically
> rather than intuitively at the issue of which is more confusing
> to the unskilled, windows popping up on a screen that obscure
> other windows and calling for a level of knowledge of window
> management on the part of the user or simply relying on the skill
> of using the back button or clicking a navigational link on the
> *one* page. Anyway, think about it and no more abstract
> discussion, we need cases to continue.
>
> About my sites, no, you are mistaken, I speak to the downtrodden,
> the lonely, the poor, the refugees, the uneducated. It is
> impossible not to feel compassion. My problem is trying to
> concentrate while crying my heart out. My family, with only one
> or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
> for being serial public nuisances.
>
> --
> dorayme
Dorayme,
Thanks for your breakdown on _blank, but I have to agree with Johns
argument. If they can't figure it out, the web is not for them. As a
designer, I spend half of my time considering usability options, and
personally do no think that a link to an external site opening in a
new window is an unexpected surprise when surfing the net. Thanks for
your caution though. I totally understand how incapable some people
are when it comes to the internet and computers for that matter.
As for my preferences:
Mac G4 - OS X 10.4.10
Firefox 2.0.0.6
Tabs > (All settings listed indicate checked options)
=B7 New pages should be opened in: a new tab
=B7 Warn me when opening multiple tabs might slow down Firefox
Content >
=B7 Block pop-up windows
=B7 Load images automatically
=B7 Enable JavaScript
=B7 Enable Java
They seem to be the only options that are relevant to my problem. But
please, do let me know if I'm missing something.
Thanks,
Marc
PS - Sorry for the delay in replys, I'm on the southern end of the
globe.
In article
<1189033926.509632.156520@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
marckatsambis@gmail.com wrote:
> As for my preferences:
>
> Firefox 2.0.0.6
>
> Tabs > (All settings listed indicate checked options)
> ? New pages should be opened in: a new tab
> They seem to be the only options that are relevant to my problem. But
> please, do let me know if I'm missing something.
>
From my memory of your intitial problem, the pref above is the
relevant one. That is why _blanks do not open in a separate
window. You really need to be careful on using _blank (I hate to
harp on the matter), if you want to experience what your audience
will experience to test the issue, you need to guess their prefs
and this guessing goes on and on and gets to be pretty tenuous.
Consider a simpler strategy.
>
> P.S - Sorry for the delay in replys, I'm on the southern end of the
> globe.
>
Tasmania? (There was an Italian who took a good deal of interest
in this island...)
I am in Sydney.
--
dorayme
In article
dorayme
> I am in Sydney.
I forgot to add, I am having lunch with Bush and Putin today,
they are in town along with the Chinese president. I am worried
about what to wear.
--
dorayme
On Sep 6, 9:28 am, dorayme
> In article
>
>
> dorayme
> > I am in Sydney.
>
> I forgot to add, I am having lunch with Bush and Putin today,
> they are in town along with the Chinese president. I am worried
> about what to wear.
>
> --
> dorayme
Oh, a Sydeny-sider. How unfortunate...
dorayme wrote:
> In article
>> My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
>> educated to Masters and PhD level,
> My family, with only one
> or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
> for being serial public nuisances.
< _chuckle_ >
Getting settled by England's criminals there versus getting
settled by England's (often highly educated) rejected religious zealots here
-- I'm not at all sure who got the sweeter deal. :)
In article <13duge68foomv8a@corp.supernews.com>,
mbstevens
> dorayme wrote:
> > In article
>
> >> My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
> >> educated to Masters and PhD level,
>
> > My family, with only one
> > or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
> > for being serial public nuisances.
>
> < _chuckle_ >
>
> Getting settled by England's criminals there versus getting
> settled by England's (often highly educated) rejected religious zealots here
> -- I'm not at all sure who got the sweeter deal. :)
Surely no contest? Criminality wears out under the long march of
experience, blind faith is forever...
--
dorayme
In article <1189033926.509632.156520@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
marckatsambis@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
> Thanks for your breakdown on _blank, but I have to agree with Johns
> argument. If they can't figure it out, the web is not for them. As a
> designer, I spend half of my time considering usability options, and
> personally do no think that a link to an external site opening in a
> new window is an unexpected surprise when surfing the net. Thanks for
> your caution though. I totally understand how incapable some people
> are when it comes to the internet and computers for that matter.
I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
button, for example.
Tim Streater wrote:
> I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
> new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
> button, for example.
What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org <----------- New Site Aug 28
In article
Blinky the Shark
> Tim Streater wrote:
>
> > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
> > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
> > button, for example.
>
> What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?
You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
another tab.
Tim Streater wrote:
> In article
> Blinky the Shark
>
>> Tim Streater wrote:
>>
>> > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
>> > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
>> > button, for example.
>>
>> What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?
>
> You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
Wait. Now it's a popup, not a new browser window?
> in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
> screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
> necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
> another tab.
Wait. Now it's a new window, again?
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org <----------- New Site Aug 28
In article
Tim Streater
> > Tim Streater wrote:
> >
> > > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
> > > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
> > > button, for example.
> >
> > What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?
>
> You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
> in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
> screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
> necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
> another tab.
You can't read two things at once. If you really have to refer
back and forth between windows that mandates two windows being
open next to each other, fine. But this situation is rarely the
case. How about some real examples? The principle reason to open
another window is to not lose ones place on the first. This is
truly a problem in many cases, breadcrumb trail can practically
cope. But for *this* reason, a tab is totally adequate.
--
dorayme
In article
Blinky the Shark
> Tim Streater wrote:
> > In article
> > Blinky the Shark
> >
> >> Tim Streater wrote:
> >>
> >> > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
> >> > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
> >> > button, for example.
> >>
> >> What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?
> >
> > You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
>
> Wait. Now it's a popup, not a new browser window?
In another ng thread, I used the word "popup" to refer to what you get
with and was told off because folks
thought I meant a separate window. Now you're telling me off again.
I wish people could make their minds up.
> > in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
> > screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
> > necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
> > another tab.
>
> Wait. Now it's a new window, again?
No, it was always a separate window.
My site is a private engineering site for our engineers, our NOC, and
selected customer engineers. But I have seen this "help in a separate
window" concept employed by many commercial sites. To me it makes sense,
because it doesn't (by opening a new tab) distract from the original
window, which the user didn't open for fun, but because they want to
refer to the information in question. This information is dense, but as
experts they don't care about that - but they may need a bit of help
from time to time.
Tim Streater wrote:
> In article
> Blinky the Shark
>
>> Tim Streater wrote:
>> > In article
>> > Blinky the Shark
>> >
>> >> Tim Streater wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
>> >> > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
>> >> > button, for example.
>> >>
>> >> What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?
>> >
>> > You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
>>
>> Wait. Now it's a popup, not a new browser window?
>
> In another ng thread, I used the word "popup" to refer to what you get
> with and was told off because folks
> thought I meant a separate window. Now you're telling me off again.
No, I was asking a question.
> I wish people could make their minds up.
The only mind makeup I need to ask a question is curiosity. :)
>> > in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
>> > screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
>> > necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
>> > another tab.
>>
>> Wait. Now it's a new window, again?
>
> No, it was always a separate window.
Oh.
> My site is a private engineering site for our engineers, our NOC, and
> selected customer engineers. But I have seen this "help in a separate
> window" concept employed by many commercial sites. To me it makes sense,
I'll assume from the above that you do mean "window" this time.
> because it doesn't (by opening a new tab) distract from the original
> window, which the user didn't open for fun, but because they want to
> refer to the information in question. This information is dense, but as
> experts they don't care about that - but they may need a bit of help
> from time to time.
I think I do like the idea of a separate window for a help system that
one might want visible along with whatever I asked for help about.
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org <----------- New Site Aug 28
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed marckatsambis@gmail.com writing
in news:1188973711.175101.108210@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>> Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
>> new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
>> for not knowing about the evils of _blank
>>
>> --
>> dorayme
>
> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
> it is meant to.
>
> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
> _blank evil? What should I use instead?
>
One of the problems with _blank is it opens a new window each time, so
if you have 2 _blanks, you have two windows. If you browser gets
hijacked, and lots of porn opens up, it's the use of _blank.
Alternatively, once you name a window, you can reuse it again. So if
you have a window called help, anything with target="help" will open in
the "help" window, already defined. Of course, you also have to be
careful with this, as you might not want to overwrite that "help"
window.
Personally, I prefer a small pop-up window, or even better, a little CSS
box with the "help" in it.
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
> One of the problems with _blank is it opens a new window each time, so
> if you have 2 _blanks, you have two windows. If you browser gets
> hijacked, and lots of porn opens up, it's the use of _blank.
Unless it's not, and the pr0n windows are all JavaScript creatures. Or
did you mean something else by "hijacked"?
--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed John Hosking
@news.bluewin.ch:
> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>>
>> One of the problems with _blank is it opens a new window each time,
so
>> if you have 2 _blanks, you have two windows. If you browser gets
>> hijacked, and lots of porn opens up, it's the use of _blank.
>
> Unless it's not, and the pr0n windows are all JavaScript creatures. Or
> did you mean something else by "hijacked"?
>
I'm talking about the home page being hijacked by a virus or spyware.
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Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
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