Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:


> Why would they want to block the "ping" that many web sites send to
> StatCounter, and other "hit counter' service. Its only a few hundred
> bytes, and allowing the pings to go through to the various hit-counter
> services are not going to be that much of an impact on the network,


But to the user. Such counters are stupid advertisement and thus an
annoyance to the user.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1189676395.585895.141950@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> Corporate network admins really need to get a 'effin grip. Allowing
> the hits to any web site to show up in StatCounter, for the webmasters
> to examine, is NOT going to undermine the network. Corporate network
> admins need to ligthen up a little.

Chilly, you really are a troll. People that run/own networks don't owe
you anything and don't need to allow anything other than what they WANT
TO ALLOW.

Personally, I block all third party items, and that really shows how
unethical some websites are, as their web pages show missing areas -
it's funny that people are starting to learn how ADs are setup on sites
and how third party info is found on sites.

The cool thing is that Admins are doing their jobs properly and securing
at least parts of their networks anyway.

I can't wait till they get the basics right and you find that corporate
networks no longer allow access to your crappy services through crappy
proxy servers - it's really simple to block them, and block you in the
process.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:39:55 -0700, chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:

>Corporate network admins really need to get a 'effin grip. Allowing
>the hits to any web site to show up in StatCounter, for the webmasters
>to examine, is NOT going to undermine the network. Corporate network
>admins need to ligthen up a little.

Actually, there are some very good reasons why we block the traffic you
suggest - it's just an added bonus that it annoys scumbags like you.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In message <1189741654.963320.195110@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:

>Using a service like StatCounter is NOT unethical. ALL it does is
>record the user's IP, and the time and date of access, and then send
>that to StatCounter's computers. The big difference is that I get a
>complete geolocation analysis on every visit that IS logged there. It
>also get information on what operating system was used, and what web
>browser the visitor was using. It is NOT unethical for StatCounter for
>gather that information and store it on their servers for webmasters
>to retrieve later on. I am using the PAID version of the service, and
>expect to get what I paid for.

Sure. How does that benefit me?

--
You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than just a kind word.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:


> Using a service like StatCounter is NOT unethical. ALL it does is
> record the user's IP, and the time and date of access, and then send
> that to StatCounter's computers. The big difference is that I get a
> complete geolocation analysis on every visit that IS logged there. It
> also get information on what operating system was used, and what web
> browser the visitor was using. It is NOT unethical for StatCounter for
> gather that information and store it on their servers for webmasters
> to retrieve later on.


However, it is unethical for the webmaster to annoy the user with things
that don't benefit him.

> I am using the PAID version of the service, and expect to get what I paid
> for.

Sure. You get a collection of information from users who are willing to
provide them. However, the users are free to not provide them. So you can
expect something from SiteCounter (providing the service to you), but not
anything from the users (providing their information to StatCounter).

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1189741654.963320.195110@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
> On Sep 13, 3:52 am, Leythos wrote:
> > In article <1189676395.585895.141...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > chil...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> > > Corporate network admins really need to get a 'effin grip. Allowing
> > > the hits to any web site to show up in StatCounter, for the webmasters
> > > to examine, is NOT going to undermine the network. Corporate network
> > > admins need to ligthen up a little.
> >
> > Chilly, you really are a troll. People that run/own networks don't owe
> > you anything and don't need to allow anything other than what they WANT
> > TO ALLOW.
> >
> > Personally, I block all third party items, and that really shows how
> > unethical some websites are, as their web pages show missing areas -
>
> Using a service like StatCounter is NOT unethical. ALL it does is
> record the user's IP, and the time and date of access, and then send
> that to StatCounter's computers. The big difference is that I get a
> complete geolocation analysis on every visit that IS logged there. It
> also get information on what operating system was used, and what web
> browser the visitor was using. It is NOT unethical for StatCounter for
> gather that information and store it on their servers for webmasters
> to retrieve later on. I am using the PAID version of the service, and
> expect to get what I paid for.

You really are a hack - the unethical part is that you don't own or
control the networks and have no right to complain about what the
admins/owners of those network permit. Blocking that crap like you
complain about is good - it saves network bandwidth, saves internet
bandwidth, removes an exploit vector, removes tracking information...

It doesn't matter what YOU have/paid/want - the fact is that your added
counts increased bytes that move across the users network and they don't
want it, so they block it, and that's all you get.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1189764004.324619.86760@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> Ah, but the way that StatCounter operates, the user does not even KNOW
> that his or her visit it being logged.

Wrong - you are consuming the users bandwidth, you are accessing their
network, you are a third-party link on the page....

Logging users without their permission is unethical.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:


> Ah, but the way that StatCounter operates, the user does not even KNOW
> that his or her visit it being logged.


Who cares? It takes a little bit bandwidth and processing time for providing
absolutely no benefit to the user.

> When a user goes to a web site, he/she/they/it should expect to have

> their visit logged SOMEWHERE.

Reasonably he should expect it beside understanding that it's superfluos and
thus no reasonable website would do that.

> Since any user who visits any web site
> should expect their visits to be logged, the invisible logging service
> I have it NOT unethical in ANY way.

it is, because it simply shouldn't be there.

Anyway, unethical or not, you should not complain that user simply block it.
If you have a problem with that, you should cease business.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

DevilsPGD wrote:
> chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:
>> [ *boohoo* people don't do what I want them to ]
>
> Sure. How does that benefit me?

In the same way your troll-feeding benefits me?

cu
59cobalt
--
"If a software developer ever believes a rootkit is a necessary part of
their architecture they should go back and re-architect their solution."
--Mark Russinovich

Re: Why block web hit counters?

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:39:55 -0700, chilly8 wrote:


You can get the same (or better) information from your
own webserver logfile.
You DON'T have to pay extra for that!

I just don't like any page counters. Especialy if
they are from a different site. Will block ALL
coockies from those sites! Just a waste of bandwith.

Rudy

Re: Why block web hit counters?

> ALL it does is
> record the user's IP, and the time and date of access, and then send
> that to StatCounter's computers.

Without explicit consens of the (end-) user this is illegal.

> I am using the PAID version of the service, and
> expect to get what I paid for.

So complain where our money vanishes, not where admins protect their
users from nosey "webadministrators".

Cheers,
Jens

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Jens Hoffmann wrote:

>> ALL it does is
>> record the user's IP, and the time and date of access, and then send
>> that to StatCounter's computers.
>
> Without explicit consens of the (end-) user this is illegal.


German/European privacy laws don't apply to the entire world... anyway, how
should some statistical information related to a website, at best
machine-identifying but never personally identifying information be
considered a privacy problem in a lawful context?

>> I am using the PAID version of the service, and
>> expect to get what I paid for.
>
> So complain where our money vanishes, not where admins protect their
> users from nosey "webadministrators".

Where does our money vanish? Only his does. :-)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

>> Without explicit consens of the (end-) user this is illegal.
>
>
> German/European privacy laws don't apply to the entire world.

Wow. Tell news.

>> So complain where our money vanishes, not where admins protect their
>> users from nosey "webadministrators".
>
> Where does our money vanish? Only his does. :-)

Broken keyboard. y doesnt work all the time.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote in news:1189764004.324619.86760@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> What StatCounter does
> is TOTALLY INVISIBLE to ALL users that visit my site.

If that were so, then they would not be able to block it.

This thread has been informative. I'll be adding new rules to
my firewall now....to block StatCounter.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:


> However, I get all kinds of information on web visitors (if
> StatCounter logs it).


Who cares what you get? If the user doesn't want it (and doesn't need it
either), he's free to block it. NUff said.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1189837507.876212.212440@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> It is NO different than logging users in my own firewall logs. When a
> user visits ANY web site, he or she should expect to have their visits
> logged by SOME logging system.
>
> However, I get all kinds of information on web visitors (if
> StatCounter logs it). I also get the "referrer", which tells me if
> someone clicked on any links from another page to reach me

Your statements contradict yourself.

Your logs are no different than provided by your firewall, but you use a
service that provides different information than your firewall logs...

You can't even lie correctly.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

X-No-Archive: Yes


On Sep 15, 1:07 pm, Leythos wrote:
> In article <1189837507.876212.212...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
> chil...@hotmail.com says...
>
> > It is NO different than logging users in my own firewall logs. When a
> > user visits ANY web site, he or she should expect to have their visits
> > logged by SOME logging system.
>
> > However, I get all kinds of information on web visitors (if
> > StatCounter logs it). I also get the "referrer", which tells me if
> > someone clicked on any links from another page to reach me
>
> Your statements contradict yourself.
>
> Your logs are no different than provided by your firewall, but you use a
> service that provides different information than your firewall logs...
>


Well, I just found out another reason why StatCounter and the firewall
logs do not always match. THere are many web-based proxies as well,
which also solves the riddlle of why I get hits from servers on server
colocation centres around the world, and why so many hits from Yahoo
addressed. After doing some investigation, I find that most sites
running PHPProxy are set be default to block the "pings" to sites,
such as StatCounter, that record such information, and that a lot of
these hits coming from server farms all over the place are occurring
during the workday in America.

It appears that to evade even so called "secure" networks, such as
those you say you create, they are paying the costs of colocating a
server at a colocation facility somewhere, and then putting something
like PHPProxy on those machines, and then surfing the net from work,
through those web-based proxies. Becusae its on a server farm, most
filter, like Moe used to mention on here, where his firm blocks all
known residential IP blocks, are not going to catch this, becuase
these web based proxies are located in server colocation facilities,
that are on business-related IP blocks. Though server farms are aimed
towards businesses, they will sell to any indiviual willing to pay the
rather exorbitant monthly charges. And also, many residential IPs are
going not going to be caught, becuase business-level DSL service has
now come down to more sane prices over the past several years. They
are still quite a bit higher than residential services, but business
service with 6 megs download and 768K upload can be had now for as
little as $75 per month, from some American DSL Internet providers,
and even less if you sign up for a one-year term, some companies will
give you such service for as little as $59 per month. This means that
someone could evade a system, like Moe's that blocks known residential
blocks, by getting this new lower-priced business internet service
into their homes.

By default many web proxy programs block hits to web counter and
logging services, and block many cookies, which does, of course, make
it harder for someone to listen to me through Live 365, becuase the
changed the rules last April and prohibited direct links to listen to
third-party players and only allowed linking to the Live 365 web-based
player, from web pages. Of course an astute user can still get the
direct URL for third-party players, and jot that down at home before
leaving for work in the morning. There are a number of programs freely
available on the Net that will monitor your computer's traffic in real
time, and the direct-link IP and port to my Live 365 station (or any
other Live 365 station) can be found fairly quickly. The only caveat
is that if the station is only available to VIP subscription
listeners, this method will not work.

Simply put, someone could, at this very moment, be using one of these
web-based proxies to bypass your filters/firewalls, right under your
nose, and you will have no CLUE as to what they are up to.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1189889605.968981.218900@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> It appears that to evade even so called "secure" networks, such as
> those you say you create

It appears you don't understand network security - it's very simple to
block access to unapproved websites - in fact, a good security method is
to block access to all sites and only allow access to those sites
necessary for business.

> Simply put, someone could, at this very moment, be using one of these
> web-based proxies to bypass your filters/firewalls, right under your
> nose, and you will have no CLUE as to what they are up to.

LOL - Not a chance chumpy.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote:


> Simply put, someone could, at this very moment, be using one of these
> web-based proxies to bypass your filters/firewalls, right under your
> nose, and you will have no CLUE as to what they are up to.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

chilly8@hotmail.com wrote in news:1189982433.445255.244120
@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

> Your security meaures will become USELESS
> against this new service, becuase proxy detectors will not likely have
> these proxies in their filtering lists, as only subscribing members to
> access them.

All it takes is for one admin to subscribe and use the service
to figure it all out and then disclose (anonymously, of course)
the information for other admins to use. Not like it hasn't
happened before.

Sheesh, I'm just a home user on one computer and I can figure
this out....

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1190059751.582641.307330@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> By using the
> service I use (run out of Bajamar, Mexico), you would have your
> network admins playing "whack a mole", trying to block you.

Wrong, your solution would be blocked, by default, on properly secured
networks.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1189982433.445255.244120@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> This is no POSSIBLE way you are goning to be able to stop
> this for a few years. Your security meaures will become USELESS
> against this new service, becuase proxy detectors will not likely have
> these proxies in their filtering lists, as only subscribing members to
> access them.

Chilly, you're a complete idiot - if the users can't get to the non-
approved site to start with, they can't make use of the proxy service no
matter what IP/address it's at.

A properly secure network blocks all unapproved access for users - so,
that means that unless the site is approved by management or I.T., you
can't reach it, period, nada, never, no way.

It's that simple dude. You have no hope of screwing your listeners on a
properly secured network, not to mention that they would still be
detected by any entry level security type.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1190076430.550840.172350@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
> On Sep 17, 3:50 pm, Leythos wrote:
> > In article <1189982433.445255.244...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > chil...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> > > This is no POSSIBLE way you are goning to be able to stop
> > > this for a few years. Your security meaures will become USELESS
> > > against this new service, becuase proxy detectors will not likely have
> > > these proxies in their filtering lists, as only subscribing members to
> > > access them.
> >
> > Chilly, you're a complete idiot - if the users can't get to the non-
> > approved site to start with, they can't make use of the proxy service no
> > matter what IP/address it's at.
>
>
> There is one way I discovered quite by accident. Becuase the PPLive
> P2P TV service blocks its movie channels to those outside of China
> (and does a damn good job of it as well), I have to use some pretty
> heavy countermeasures. When I was using Proxifier to watch Shrek 3, on
> one of their movie channels, I discovered, when I turned on my
> anonymity service, that the bits bounds for the subscription
> anonymity service I was using were being intercepted by Proxifier and
> being stuff down the open proxy I was using in China.
>
> This could also be used to make anonymity services tunnel right throgh
> the company proxy, since the bits will be stuffed down whatever proxy
> that Proxifier is configured to use. So one could install proxifier on
> their office PC, configure it to use the company proxy, then launch
> the client software for whatever anoymity service they are using, and
> Proxifier will intercet and reroute the bits through the company
> proxy, before they reach the anonymity service. So the proxifier
> software, combined with ANY anonymity service, can tunnel through ANY
> corporate proxy, that the proxy addresses, becuase they are random and
> change often will not likely be in your vendor's filtering list. You
> launch Proxifer first, then launch the client program for your
> anonymity service.
>
> One word of caution, though, Proxifier will attempt to stuff
> EVERYTHING down whatever proxy you are using, so if you need to access
> any local resources on your office network, you will have to shut down
> the Proxifier program, or it will attempt to access office network
> resources by way of whatever proxy Proxifier is set to use. If you
> decide to go this route, do remember to shut down Proxifier before
> attempting to use any local network resources on your office network,
> or they will likely be inaccessible (unless you have some inept admins
> that make file and printer sharing acessible from the entire
> Internet).

So, now you support people using something that will DISRUPT a company
network.... Good job, idiot.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1190864728.944113.20080@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> Becuase of the way that TVU works, it would be
> very difficult to block the TVU stream of our stations.

That just proves that you don't really know how security works, how
streaming works, how easy it is to block. Trust me, your unethical hack
sites can't be seen from properly secured networks.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Why block web hit counters?

In article <1191006985.133156.80610@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
chilly8@hotmail.com says...
> Well, my trick of tripping up Websense, Bess, Sentian, WebWasher and
> SurfContol is producing results.

It's not a trick, it's a know issue and the admins at those companies
that allow their users access are just not concerned.

Blocking your unethical hack site is simple, and it doesn't require any
"web blocking" services.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)