Email suggestions

Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:

1 - look at his email
2 - open the pdf
3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
processing mode and a database.

This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone to
do it.

What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:

1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and then
does what it has to do.
4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)

I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or via a
"Go" button.

Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
would then do the rest.

There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
posted the ideal.
The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.

Any suggestions?

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

<13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com>

> Any suggestions?
>

Write a script for his website and have customers enter the order
details in a way that suits the company that processes the order .

Otherwise - walk away .


--
(c) The Amazing Krustov

Re: Email suggestions

Shelly wrote:
> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>
> 1 - look at his email
> 2 - open the pdf
> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
> processing mode and a database.
>
> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone to
> do it.
>
> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>
> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and then
> does what it has to do.
> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>
> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or via a
> "Go" button.
>
> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
> would then do the rest.
>
> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
> posted the ideal.
> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Shelly
>
>

Why is it coming in in a PDF? I would think this would be the place to
make the change - into something that's easily machine readable.

I suppose you could extract info from a pdf - I've never tried it, but
don't see why it wouldn't be possible. But it will be much harder.

It wouldn't be that hard to fetch the email or mail it to another email
address. It's the parsing that would be difficult.

Personally, I think xml would be perfect for this.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>
> 1 - look at his email
> 2 - open the pdf
> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
> processing mode and a database.
>
> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
> to do it.
>
> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>
> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
> then does what it has to do.
> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>
> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or via
> a "Go" button.
>
> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
> would then do the rest.
>
> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
> posted the ideal.
> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>
> Any suggestions?

what os is the mail server on, and would you have access to it? if it's a
windows server, i'd use .net to tie into the onArrival (can't remember the
exact name...but...) event. from there, you can parse it for either embedded
content, or if it is a link, go out and grab it. if embedded, it's a snap to
unencode it. if the os is *nix, it depends on the mail server, but usually
it goes to file somewhere. a cron would work to scan for new messages and
kick off the grabbing of the pdf.

Re: Email suggestions

Steve wrote:
> "Shelly" wrote in message
> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>
>> 1 - look at his email
>> 2 - open the pdf
>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>> processing mode and a database.
>>
>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
>> to do it.
>>
>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>
>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>> then does what it has to do.
>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>
>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or via
>> a "Go" button.
>>
>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
>> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
>> would then do the rest.
>>
>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
>> posted the ideal.
>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> what os is the mail server on, and would you have access to it? if it's a
> windows server, i'd use .net to tie into the onArrival (can't remember the
> exact name...but...) event. from there, you can parse it for either embedded
> content, or if it is a link, go out and grab it. if embedded, it's a snap to
> unencode it. if the os is *nix, it depends on the mail server, but usually
> it goes to file somewhere. a cron would work to scan for new messages and
> kick off the grabbing of the pdf.
>
>

On Unix systems you can usually pipe the incoming message to a script.
You can do it on many Windows servers, also.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

On 22 Sep, 23:39, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Shelly wrote:
> > Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
> > Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
> > orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>
>
> Why is it coming in in a PDF? I would think this would be the place to
> make the change - into something that's easily machine readable.
>
> I suppose you could extract info from a pdf - I've never tried it, but
> don't see why it wouldn't be possible. But it will be much harder.
>

One good reason is that PDF's are written in Postscript - which is a
programming language rather a data structure. Unless all the PDFs come
out of the same bit of software, there's no guarantee that what
appears at a particular place on screen will always be in the same
place in the code. Even if it is in the same place, it might be
encoded directly as a glyph or a font table reference rather than as
recognizable characters.

I'd suggest that the OP look to see if the data can be captured in a
machine readable form (even if that is embeded within a human readable
format) and if not - walk away.

C.

Re: Email suggestions

C. wrote:
> On 22 Sep, 23:39, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Shelly wrote:
>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>
>> Why is it coming in in a PDF? I would think this would be the place to
>> make the change - into something that's easily machine readable.
>>
>> I suppose you could extract info from a pdf - I've never tried it, but
>> don't see why it wouldn't be possible. But it will be much harder.
>>
>
> One good reason is that PDF's are written in Postscript - which is a
> programming language rather a data structure. Unless all the PDFs come
> out of the same bit of software, there's no guarantee that what
> appears at a particular place on screen will always be in the same
> place in the code. Even if it is in the same place, it might be
> encoded directly as a glyph or a font table reference rather than as
> recognizable characters.
>
> I'd suggest that the OP look to see if the data can be captured in a
> machine readable form (even if that is embeded within a human readable
> format) and if not - walk away.
>
> C.
>

PDF's are not written in postscript.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>
> 1 - look at his email
> 2 - open the pdf
> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
> processing mode and a database.
>
> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
> to do it.
>
> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>
> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
> then does what it has to do.
> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>
> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or via
> a "Go" button.
>
> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
> would then do the rest.
>
> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
> posted the ideal.
> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>
> Any suggestions?

Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be your
deal-breaker.
You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?

Re: Email suggestions

The pdf are ALL the same. They come from the corporate website and the
customer has NO control over that it is a pdf. The customer does not
currently have a website of his own. I could also do this job as a
standalone application on his computer, but was wondering if he could do
double duty by having his own website.

Shelly

P.S. It's nice to see we're still talking, Jerry.


"C." wrote in message
news:1190516388.977848.29540@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Sep, 23:39, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Shelly wrote:
>> > Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>> > Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>> > orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>
>>
>> Why is it coming in in a PDF? I would think this would be the place to
>> make the change - into something that's easily machine readable.
>>
>> I suppose you could extract info from a pdf - I've never tried it, but
>> don't see why it wouldn't be possible. But it will be much harder.
>>
>
> One good reason is that PDF's are written in Postscript - which is a
> programming language rather a data structure. Unless all the PDFs come
> out of the same bit of software, there's no guarantee that what
> appears at a particular place on screen will always be in the same
> place in the code. Even if it is in the same place, it might be
> encoded directly as a glyph or a font table reference rather than as
> recognizable characters.
>
> I'd suggest that the OP look to see if the data can be captured in a
> machine readable form (even if that is embeded within a human readable
> format) and if not - walk away.
>
> C.
>

Re: Email suggestions

"Steve" wrote in message
news:oyhJi.72$Qo7.69@newsfe02.lga...
>
> "Shelly" wrote in message
> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>
>> 1 - look at his email
>> 2 - open the pdf
>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>> processing mode and a database.
>>
>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
>> to do it.
>>
>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>
>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>> then does what it has to do.
>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>
>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>> via a "Go" button.
>>
>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
>> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
>> would then do the rest.
>>
>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
>> posted the ideal.
>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> what os is the mail server on, and would you have access to it? if it's a
> windows server, i'd use .net to tie into the onArrival (can't remember the
> exact name...but...) event. from there, you can parse it for either
> embedded content, or if it is a link, go out and grab it. if embedded,
> it's a snap to unencode it. if the os is *nix, it depends on the mail
> server, but usually it goes to file somewhere. a cron would work to scan
> for new messages and kick off the grabbing of the pdf.

Excelllent suggestions, Steve. I'll find out.

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
news:O_KdnYHrVY7DXWjbnZ2dnUVZ_u7inZ2d@comcast.com...
> Steve wrote:
>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>>
>>> 1 - look at his email
>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>
>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
>>> to do it.
>>>
>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>
>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>>> then does what it has to do.
>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>
>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>>> via a "Go" button.
>>>
>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader
>>> and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload
>>> button would then do the rest.
>>>
>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make.
>>> I posted the ideal.
>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> what os is the mail server on, and would you have access to it? if it's a
>> windows server, i'd use .net to tie into the onArrival (can't remember
>> the exact name...but...) event. from there, you can parse it for either
>> embedded content, or if it is a link, go out and grab it. if embedded,
>> it's a snap to unencode it. if the os is *nix, it depends on the mail
>> server, but usually it goes to file somewhere. a cron would work to scan
>> for new messages and kick off the grabbing of the pdf.
>
> On Unix systems you can usually pipe the incoming message to a script. You
> can do it on many Windows servers, also.

More appropriately it would be the tee command so that the mail still gets
delivered while diverting a copy to special processing.

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

"Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> "Shelly" wrote in message
> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>
>> 1 - look at his email
>> 2 - open the pdf
>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>> processing mode and a database.
>>
>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
>> to do it.
>>
>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>
>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>> then does what it has to do.
>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>
>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>> via a "Go" button.
>>
>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
>> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
>> would then do the rest.
>>
>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
>> posted the ideal.
>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
> your deal-breaker.
> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?

Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive packages out
there to that. What I would need is a command line application. The other
stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

Shelly wrote:
> "C." wrote in message
> news:1190516388.977848.29540@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>> On 22 Sep, 23:39, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> Shelly wrote:
>>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>>
>>> Why is it coming in in a PDF? I would think this would be the place to
>>> make the change - into something that's easily machine readable.
>>>
>>> I suppose you could extract info from a pdf - I've never tried it, but
>>> don't see why it wouldn't be possible. But it will be much harder.
>>>
>> One good reason is that PDF's are written in Postscript - which is a
>> programming language rather a data structure. Unless all the PDFs come
>> out of the same bit of software, there's no guarantee that what
>> appears at a particular place on screen will always be in the same
>> place in the code. Even if it is in the same place, it might be
>> encoded directly as a glyph or a font table reference rather than as
>> recognizable characters.
>>
>> I'd suggest that the OP look to see if the data can be captured in a
>> machine readable form (even if that is embeded within a human readable
>> format) and if not - walk away.
>>
>> C.
>>
>
>
> The pdf are ALL the same. They come from the corporate website and the
> customer has NO control over that it is a pdf. The customer does not
> currently have a website of his own. I could also do this job as a
> standalone application on his computer, but was wondering if he could do
> double duty by having his own website.
>

Has he tried talking to the people at corporate? I would think it would
be in their best interest to provide the information in a machine-readable
form, also.

I've done some looking around but haven't found anything to read PDF's. One
thing to be concerned about also - is text stored as text, or as an image? I've
seen both. Text wouldn't be too hard, but an image would require ocr software.

> Shelly
>
> P.S. It's nice to see we're still talking, Jerry.
>
>

Oh, shit. I thought this was a different Shelly :-)

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

Shelly wrote:
> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
> news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>>
>>> 1 - look at his email
>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>
>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
>>> to do it.
>>>
>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>
>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>>> then does what it has to do.
>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>
>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>>> via a "Go" button.
>>>
>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader and
>>> save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload button
>>> would then do the rest.
>>>
>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make. I
>>> posted the ideal.
>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>> your deal-breaker.
>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>
> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive packages out
> there to that. What I would need is a command line application. The other
> stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>
> Shelly
>
>

Naw, even on a Unix server the email is easy. If it is unix, just get the admin
to pipe a copy of the email to your script.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13fcjb83gcfp199@corp.supernews.com...
> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message

>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>> your deal-breaker.
>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>
> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive packages
> out there to that. What I would need is a command line application. The
> other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.

Really? I thought you were a PHP guru looking for PDF advice.
If you can read the PDF fields into a PHP variable - what

>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>> processing mode and a database.

That seems to be your stumble step, right?

If you're not comfortable writing database code, you could try any of the
home-spun database classes out there.
Here's mine:
http://www.kaufman.net/bvckvs/redist/bvckvs_database.php.txt

Re: Email suggestions

"Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
news:7itJi.175$P21.69@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> "Shelly" wrote in message
> news:13fcjb83gcfp199@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
>
>>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>>> your deal-breaker.
>>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>>
>> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive packages
>> out there to that. What I would need is a command line application. The
>> other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>
> Really? I thought you were a PHP guru looking for PDF advice.
> If you can read the PDF fields into a PHP variable - what

I have done quite a bit of php coding (and C, Java, Fortran, etc.), but I
would never associate "php guru" with my name (seriously!). So much to
learn, so little time. :-)

>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>> processing mode and a database.
>
> That seems to be your stumble step, right?

No, the entire process.

> If you're not comfortable writing database code, you could try any of the
> home-spun database classes out there.

I am VERY comfortable writing database code. It seems that is all I do,
somethimes :-)

> Here's mine:
> http://www.kaufman.net/bvckvs/redist/bvckvs_database.php.txt
>
>

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13fcimcrurjrl0c@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Steve" wrote in message
> news:oyhJi.72$Qo7.69@newsfe02.lga...
>>
>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>>
>>> 1 - look at his email
>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>
>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring someone
>>> to do it.
>>>
>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>
>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>>> then does what it has to do.
>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>
>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>>> via a "Go" button.
>>>
>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader
>>> and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload
>>> button would then do the rest.
>>>
>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make.
>>> I posted the ideal.
>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> what os is the mail server on, and would you have access to it? if it's a
>> windows server, i'd use .net to tie into the onArrival (can't remember
>> the exact name...but...) event. from there, you can parse it for either
>> embedded content, or if it is a link, go out and grab it. if embedded,
>> it's a snap to unencode it. if the os is *nix, it depends on the mail
>> server, but usually it goes to file somewhere. a cron would work to scan
>> for new messages and kick off the grabbing of the pdf.
>
> Excelllent suggestions, Steve. I'll find out.

thanks, but unfortunately, that only covers steps 1 and 2. i've never tried
reading a pdf. ocr is pretty easy to work with (depending on who is
supplying the dll). anyway, i'm following this thread so i can mark the good
suggestions for step 3. let us know what you work out.

Re: Email suggestions

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
news:coadnXC1Ps1Ux2vbnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@comcast.com...
> Shelly wrote:
>> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
>> news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>>>
>>>> 1 - look at his email
>>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>>
>>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring
>>>> someone to do it.
>>>>
>>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>>>> then does what it has to do.
>>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>>
>>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>>>> via a "Go" button.
>>>>
>>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader
>>>> and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload
>>>> button would then do the rest.
>>>>
>>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make.
>>>> I posted the ideal.
>>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>>> your deal-breaker.
>>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>>
>> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive packages
>> out there to that. What I would need is a command line application. The
>> other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>>
>> Shelly
>
> Naw, even on a Unix server the email is easy. If it is unix, just get the
> admin to pipe a copy of the email to your script.

and depending on what language you're comfortable, i've got vb (classic and
..net) and c++ sample code to tie into IIS smtp. however, i'd really consider
jerry's earlier suggestion of piping to a script if, as he suggested, iis
will allow for it...i just have never done it that way.

Re: Email suggestions

Steve wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
> news:coadnXC1Ps1Ux2vbnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Shelly wrote:
>>> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
>>> news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>>>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential customer.
>>>>> Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf attachments for
>>>>> orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same. Now he has to:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 - look at his email
>>>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring
>>>>> someone to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf and
>>>>> then does what it has to do.
>>>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job or
>>>>> via a "Go" button.
>>>>>
>>>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader
>>>>> and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would upload
>>>>> button would then do the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to make.
>>>>> I posted the ideal.
>>>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>>>> your deal-breaker.
>>>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>>>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>>> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive packages
>>> out there to that. What I would need is a command line application. The
>>> other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>>>
>>> Shelly
>> Naw, even on a Unix server the email is easy. If it is unix, just get the
>> admin to pipe a copy of the email to your script.
>
> and depending on what language you're comfortable, i've got vb (classic and
> .net) and c++ sample code to tie into IIS smtp. however, i'd really consider
> jerry's earlier suggestion of piping to a script if, as he suggested, iis
> will allow for it...i just have never done it that way.
>
>

I don't know - I don't use Windows SMTP (which is not the same as IIS, BTW).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
news:taKdnYeUJe3SkmrbnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Steve wrote:
>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
>> news:coadnXC1Ps1Ux2vbnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Shelly wrote:
>>>> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
>>>> news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>>>>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential
>>>>>> customer. Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf
>>>>>> attachments for orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same.
>>>>>> Now he has to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 - look at his email
>>>>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>>>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>>>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring
>>>>>> someone to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>>>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>>>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf
>>>>>> and then does what it has to do.
>>>>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job
>>>>>> or via a "Go" button.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader
>>>>>> and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would
>>>>>> upload button would then do the rest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to
>>>>>> make. I posted the ideal.
>>>>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>>>>> your deal-breaker.
>>>>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>>>>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>>>> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive
>>>> packages out there to that. What I would need is a command line
>>>> application. The other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>>>>
>>>> Shelly
>>> Naw, even on a Unix server the email is easy. If it is unix, just get
>>> the admin to pipe a copy of the email to your script.
>>
>> and depending on what language you're comfortable, i've got vb (classic
>> and .net) and c++ sample code to tie into IIS smtp. however, i'd really
>> consider jerry's earlier suggestion of piping to a script if, as he
>> suggested, iis will allow for it...i just have never done it that way.
>
> I don't know - I don't use Windows SMTP (which is not the same as IIS,
> BTW).

i know how smtp on windows fits into the scheme of things, there's no need
to be that technical here with me about it...plus, i never said it was ==
iis.

Re: Email suggestions

"Steve" wrote in message
news:rlFJi.115$vg3.85@newsfe02.lga...

Steve (and Sanders), on a different topic you were going to talk to me
offline about php coding opportunities. I don't want any nasty software to
pick up my email address from here so please email me at sheldonlg and then
add that I live in thevillages. My email is a dot net type of address.

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

Steve wrote:
> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
> news:taKdnYeUJe3SkmrbnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Steve wrote:
>>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
>>> news:coadnXC1Ps1Ux2vbnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> Shelly wrote:
>>>>> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
>>>>> news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential
>>>>>>> customer. Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf
>>>>>>> attachments for orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same.
>>>>>>> Now he has to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1 - look at his email
>>>>>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>>>>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>>>>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring
>>>>>>> someone to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>>>>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>>>>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf
>>>>>>> and then does what it has to do.
>>>>>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job
>>>>>>> or via a "Go" button.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his reader
>>>>>>> and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button would
>>>>>>> upload button would then do the rest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to
>>>>>>> make. I posted the ideal.
>>>>>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might be
>>>>>> your deal-breaker.
>>>>>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>>>>>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>>>>> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive
>>>>> packages out there to that. What I would need is a command line
>>>>> application. The other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shelly
>>>> Naw, even on a Unix server the email is easy. If it is unix, just get
>>>> the admin to pipe a copy of the email to your script.
>>> and depending on what language you're comfortable, i've got vb (classic
>>> and .net) and c++ sample code to tie into IIS smtp. however, i'd really
>>> consider jerry's earlier suggestion of piping to a script if, as he
>>> suggested, iis will allow for it...i just have never done it that way.
>> I don't know - I don't use Windows SMTP (which is not the same as IIS,
>> BTW).
>
> i know how smtp on windows fits into the scheme of things, there's no need
> to be that technical here with me about it...plus, i never said it was ==
> iis.
>
>

Just correcting your statement above: "...tie into IIS smtp...".

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13ff6ct8ae6v4ae@corp.supernews.com...

> Steve (and Sanders), on a different topic you were going to talk to me
> offline about php coding opportunities. I don't want any nasty software
> to pick up my email address from here so please email me at sheldonlg and
> then add that I live in thevillages. My email is a dot net type of
> address.

Shelly, I don't remember the contact info that I was going to send you, but
as I recall - you were drooling over my statement that my phone was ringing
off the hook.
The reason that happened was because I re-activated my Monster.com profile.
If you're online with them - it's like gold.

Re: Email suggestions

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
news:VfOdnWcZW7hPAWrbnZ2dnUVZ_vXinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Steve wrote:
>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
>> news:taKdnYeUJe3SkmrbnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Steve wrote:
>>>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
>>>> news:coadnXC1Ps1Ux2vbnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> Shelly wrote:
>>>>>> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:D7nJi.124$ua4.45@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>>>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:13fb0rcom0qur6e@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>> Here is a situation that I have to think out for a potential
>>>>>>>> customer. Currently he receives about 150 emails a day with pdf
>>>>>>>> attachments for orders. The format of the pdfs are all the same.
>>>>>>>> Now he has to:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1 - look at his email
>>>>>>>> 2 - open the pdf
>>>>>>>> 3 - manually take the data from the pdf and enter it into an order
>>>>>>>> processing mode and a database.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is taking so much of his time that he is considering hiring
>>>>>>>> someone to do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I would like to be able to present him with is the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1 - Have all those emails go to a specified folder in his email
>>>>>>>> 2 - Without opening the email, upload the attachment to a server
>>>>>>>> 3 - Have an application that extracts the information from the pdf
>>>>>>>> and then does what it has to do.
>>>>>>>> 4 - Move the email to a second email folder (processed)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to have all this initiated with either a cron type job
>>>>>>>> or via a "Go" button.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Short of this ideal, I would have him look at an email in his
>>>>>>>> reader and save the attachments to a directory. The "Go" button
>>>>>>>> would upload button would then do the rest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are also other compromises I can and probably will have to
>>>>>>>> make. I posted the ideal.
>>>>>>>> The main point is to cut the hyman time down considerably.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>> Most of that stuff sounds pretty simple - but the PDF parsing might
>>>>>>> be your deal-breaker.
>>>>>>> You'll have to be a real PDF guru to do that.
>>>>>>> Have you explored the PDF features in PHP?
>>>>>> Actually, that's probably the easy part. There are inexpensive
>>>>>> packages out there to that. What I would need is a command line
>>>>>> application. The other stuff looks like the hard stuff to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shelly
>>>>> Naw, even on a Unix server the email is easy. If it is unix, just get
>>>>> the admin to pipe a copy of the email to your script.
>>>> and depending on what language you're comfortable, i've got vb (classic
>>>> and .net) and c++ sample code to tie into IIS smtp. however, i'd really
>>>> consider jerry's earlier suggestion of piping to a script if, as he
>>>> suggested, iis will allow for it...i just have never done it that way.
>>> I don't know - I don't use Windows SMTP (which is not the same as IIS,
>>> BTW).
>>
>> i know how smtp on windows fits into the scheme of things, there's no
>> need to be that technical here with me about it...plus, i never said it
>> was == iis.
>
> Just correcting your statement above: "...tie into IIS smtp...".

sorry jerry. to put it in laymens terms, that is the most commonly
understood configuration. as in, if i want to add or remove a *component* of
iis, like smtp, i'd go to add/remove software->windows
components->iis->smtp. logically, most would see smtp as a component of iis.
what language would you feel more correct, or comfortable with?

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13ff6ct8ae6v4ae@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Steve" wrote in message
> news:rlFJi.115$vg3.85@newsfe02.lga...
>
> Steve (and Sanders), on a different topic you were going to talk to me
> offline about php coding opportunities. I don't want any nasty software
> to pick up my email address from here so please email me at sheldonlg and
> then add that I live in thevillages. My email is a dot net type of
> address.
>

rather than chasing down the post that had the psuedo address, would you
post it again here?

Re: Email suggestions

"Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message
news:lKNJi.328$ua4.180@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> "Shelly" wrote in message
> news:13ff6ct8ae6v4ae@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> Steve (and Sanders), on a different topic you were going to talk to me
>> offline about php coding opportunities. I don't want any nasty software
>> to pick up my email address from here so please email me at sheldonlg and
>> then add that I live in thevillages. My email is a dot net type of
>> address.
>
> Shelly, I don't remember the contact info that I was going to send you,
> but as I recall - you were drooling over my statement that my phone was
> ringing off the hook.
> The reason that happened was because I re-activated my Monster.com
> profile.
> If you're online with them - it's like gold.

I'm online with them. They can use some help themselves. I tried to update
my resume, so I tried to upload the new version. It failed with a generic
failure message. I then tried to add a new resume. It also failed. (The
resume is about 50K, so that isn't the problem and the resume is a perfectly
valid Word file). I contacted help and they tried and failed. They said to
send it to them and they would do it. Nothing happened. Two weeks later, I
repeated this scenario. This time he put up a second resume -- a copy of
the first one I had up and not the one I sent to him! (Yes, I verified that
I sent him the new one).

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

"Steve" wrote in message
news:DzOJi.21$UU7.9@newsfe02.lga...
>
> "Shelly" wrote in message
> news:13ff6ct8ae6v4ae@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Steve" wrote in message
>> news:rlFJi.115$vg3.85@newsfe02.lga...
>>
>> Steve (and Sanders), on a different topic you were going to talk to me
>> offline about php coding opportunities. I don't want any nasty software
>> to pick up my email address from here so please email me at sheldonlg and
>> then add that I live in thevillages. My email is a dot net type of
>> address.
>>
>
> rather than chasing down the post that had the psuedo address, would you
> post it again here?
>
>

Try sheldonlg at thevillages and add a ".net". That will get right through
to me.

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13ffi2i2f73sq11@corp.supernews.com...
> "Sanders Kaufman" wrote in message

>> The reason that happened was because I re-activated my Monster.com
>> profile.
>> If you're online with them - it's like gold.
>
> I'm online with them. They can use some help themselves. I tried to
> update my resume, so I tried to upload the new version. It failed with a
> generic failure message. I then tried to add a new resume. It also
> failed. (The resume is about 50K, so that isn't the problem and the
> resume is a perfectly valid Word file). I contacted help and they tried
> and failed. They said to send it to them and they would do it. Nothing
> happened. Two weeks later, I repeated this scenario. This time he put up
> a second resume -- a copy of the first one I had up and not the one I sent
> to him! (Yes, I verified that I sent him the new one).

Yeah - that upload function is pretty sucky.
What I do is fill out their online resume-builder thing.

Consider your issue with the PDF's in another thread in which, like
everyone, suggested that you have them fill in a form instead of xmitting
via PDF.
Formatting, extracting and indexing randomly formatted data from a couple of
million different people's idea of a "resume" is a dead-end.

If you want to get into the system well, ya gotta fill out the forms.
God help you with this - because it takes DAYS to get it all in there just
right... if not weeks or months.
Same thing with CareerBuilder and the rest.

Re: Email suggestions

"Shelly" wrote in message
news:13ffi2p1edmcl15@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Steve" wrote in message
> news:DzOJi.21$UU7.9@newsfe02.lga...
>>
>> "Shelly" wrote in message
>> news:13ff6ct8ae6v4ae@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Steve" wrote in message
>>> news:rlFJi.115$vg3.85@newsfe02.lga...
>>>
>>> Steve (and Sanders), on a different topic you were going to talk to me
>>> offline about php coding opportunities. I don't want any nasty software
>>> to pick up my email address from here so please email me at sheldonlg
>>> and then add that I live in thevillages. My email is a dot net type of
>>> address.
>>>
>>
>> rather than chasing down the post that had the psuedo address, would you
>> post it again here?
>>
>>
>
> Try sheldonlg at thevillages and add a ".net". That will get right
> through to me.

on its way. ;^)

Re: Email suggestions

Hi Shelly,

You can use xpdf project to extract the content from the pdf file.
Then, you can process it as you like.

Regards,
Suresh P

Re: Email suggestions

"Suresh P" wrote in message
news:1190668102.118970.318120@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Shelly,
>
> You can use xpdf project to extract the content from the pdf file.
> Then, you can process it as you like.

there was the nugget i was waiting to see turn up. ;^)

thanks suresh.

Re: Email suggestions

"Suresh P" wrote in message
news:1190668102.118970.318120@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Shelly,
>
> You can use xpdf project to extract the content from the pdf file.
> Then, you can process it as you like.
>
> Regards,
> Suresh P

I googled this to see if I could find what some of the function calls were.
I didn't find anything. Can you point me to where I can see what functions
are available and what they do? I don't have a system on which to install
any download.

Shelly

Re: Email suggestions

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>PDF's are not written in postscript.

Yes, actually, they are. Large sections are usually compressed so that
they look binary, but PDFs are fundamentally a subset of PostScript.
--
Tim Roberts, timr@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Re: Email suggestions

"Tim Roberts" wrote in message
news:elvgf3djq9c56af1t2t6n9h0sekq1mbf8o@4ax.com...
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>>PDF's are not written in postscript.
>
> Yes, actually, they are. Large sections are usually compressed so that
> they look binary, but PDFs are fundamentally a subset of PostScript.

ooooh shit! here we go. this ought to be amusing...

tim, we don't generally tend to correct jerry in here. ;^)

(knock it off, jerry. quit fuming...i'm only playing with you!)

Re: Email suggestions

Tim Roberts wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> PDF's are not written in postscript.
>
> Yes, actually, they are. Large sections are usually compressed so that
> they look binary, but PDFs are fundamentally a subset of PostScript.

Actually, they aren't. PDF's have about as much in common with
PostScript as PHP and C++ do - both PDF's and Postscript files are page
description markups. But that's where they stop. A PostScript printer
will barf all over a PDF file, compressed or not.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Email suggestions

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
news:2fGdnY_datHifGXbnZ2dnUVZ_sejnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Tim Roberts wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> PDF's are not written in postscript.
>>
>> Yes, actually, they are. Large sections are usually compressed so that
>> they look binary, but PDFs are fundamentally a subset of PostScript.
>
> Actually, they aren't. PDF's have about as much in common with PostScript
> as PHP and C++ do - both PDF's and Postscript files are page description
> markups. But that's where they stop. A PostScript printer will barf all
> over a PDF file, compressed or not.

(i sit, lawn chair extended on the front lawn as across the street, two
neighbors, eyes twitching from an indescretion of property line violation,
begin to edge nearer each other. the air beginning to take a subtle,
aeromatic hint of dissonance. a torrent brewing. two clouds preparing to
share applause of zeus' mighty hands, the thunderous exchange of frury,
lightning, and thunder! and i, in my chair, sip my tea ready to count the
seconds between flash, and clap.)