Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

I work for a small company which owns one version of FM9 Advanced -
which is on the PC on mm desk. I've designed a Runtime Kiosk version
of a simple database for six sales people to request shop services. It
is designed so that when the user finishes their entry and selects a
"Finish" button, a message is e-mailed to me telling me that a new
request has been entered and the application closes as designed. I
receive no more than two or three requests daily so we're not talking
big numbers here. It works fine on my pc.
All seven of us access a common Snapper drive for shared files -
mostly product-related photos and files.
Is it legal and possible to move the Runtime Folder onto the snapper
drive and allow each user to create a shortcut on their desktop to
open the Runtime file from Snapper, make their entry and immediately
close the file?

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

On Oct 3, 5:43 pm, Helpful Harry
wrote:
> In article , "Joel L (Pan
> out the gold)" wrote:
>
> > I work for a small company which owns one version of FM9 Advanced -
> > which is on the PC on mm desk. I've designed a Runtime Kiosk version
> > of a simple database for six sales people to request shop services. It
> > is designed so that when the user finishes their entry and selects a
> > "Finish" button, a message is e-mailed to me telling me that a new
> > request has been entered and the application closes as designed. I
> > receive no more than two or three requests daily so we're not talking
> > big numbers here. It works fine on my pc.
> > All seven of us access a common Snapper drive for shared files -
> > mostly product-related photos and files.
> > Is it legal and possible to move the Runtime Folder onto the snapper
> > drive and allow each user to create a shortcut on their desktop to
> > open the Runtime file from Snapper, make their entry and immediately
> > close the file?
>
> There's no legal reason to stop you putting the files wherever you want
> and using them however you want ...

I don't entirely agree.

The configuration he's suggesting is essentially to work around the
"no-networking" limitation of the runtimes. His suggestion that people
would open it, run it, and exit it immediately recognizes that he
would respect the 'single user database' license of the runtime, but
he's hoping to be able to use the network share to switch it from user
to user. Sort of running it as a "network version with one
connection."

Frankly, I think that's bumping up against the license, if not
actually breaking it. But that's assuming it even works, which I
wouldn't bet on. And above all, running FM over the network like that
is a bad idea -- even on Macs. Yes, I've seen it corrupt on Macs,
some people are just lucky and it never happens to them (or it
happens, and they don't even notice; when fm databases go corrupt its
often just one layout or script or field that stops working, so you
can run a corrupt database for years without knowing.)

Anyhow, if that's a configuration you want to run with I'd recommend
installing the runtime on each machine, and setting up a shell script/
batch file to copy the database from the server to the local client,
run the software, and then on exit, copy the database file back to the
server (not the runtime just the database file). Although roughly the
same thing you propose, it will a) work reliably, and b) be completely
within the letter of the license. There is nothing stopping you from
copying the database from runtime to runtime between uses.

That said, and given your comment about only needing a couple
instances per day, I'd suggest some better options:

1) Convert your solution to use instant web publishing. (It may be as
simple as turning it on.) Its not quite as rich as the full client /
runtime, but based on what you've said I'm very confident you could
make it meet your needs easily.

2) Consider setting up a simple VNC server or give Remote Desktop
access to the filemaker kiosk. It would require you to dedicate a PC
to the task. But then your other users would just remote into the one
running instance on the kiosk, instead of trying to run it on multiple
desktops.

Of the two, I'm leaning heavily towards #1. You've got a textbook case
of what IWP is there for.

-Dave

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

In article , "Joel L (Pan
out the gold)" wrote:

> I work for a small company which owns one version of FM9 Advanced -
> which is on the PC on mm desk. I've designed a Runtime Kiosk version
> of a simple database for six sales people to request shop services. It
> is designed so that when the user finishes their entry and selects a
> "Finish" button, a message is e-mailed to me telling me that a new
> request has been entered and the application closes as designed. I
> receive no more than two or three requests daily so we're not talking
> big numbers here. It works fine on my pc.
> All seven of us access a common Snapper drive for shared files -
> mostly product-related photos and files.
> Is it legal and possible to move the Runtime Folder onto the snapper
> drive and allow each user to create a shortcut on their desktop to
> open the Runtime file from Snapper, make their entry and immediately
> close the file?

There's no legal reason to stop you putting the files wherever you want
and using them however you want ... but FileMaker Inc does advise not
sharing database files over a network unless using a copy of FileMaker
as a host (ie. not using the operating system's filesharing). Now since
FileMaker runtime applications can't be used to share files, you're a
little stuck.

You really need to use a separate copy of FileMaker for each user and
host the file on one computer. Another option might be to set up the
database to allow access from a web browser.

Having said that, I have often opened files across a network and
suffered no problems at all under Mac OS 8, 9 and X (it could just be a
Windows issue), but if you're going to do that I suggest keeping a
completely clean, empty copy of the database which has never been used
that way AND a making backups on a regular basis.




Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

Joel L (Pan out the gold) wrote:

> I work for a small company which owns one version of FM9 Advanced -
> which is on the PC on mm desk. I've designed a Runtime Kiosk version
> of a simple database for six sales people to request shop services. It
> is designed so that when the user finishes their entry and selects a
> "Finish" button, a message is e-mailed to me telling me that a new
> request has been entered and the application closes as designed. I
> receive no more than two or three requests daily so we're not talking
> big numbers here. It works fine on my pc.
> All seven of us access a common Snapper drive for shared files -
> mostly product-related photos and files.
> Is it legal and possible to move the Runtime Folder onto the snapper
> drive and allow each user to create a shortcut on their desktop to
> open the Runtime file from Snapper, make their entry and immediately
> close the file?

No. The licence agreement for runtime databases requires that it not be
installed in a location where it is able to be executed by multiple
people/computers.

The only legal option is to install a separate copy on each
person/computer.

Quote from section 1 (b) of the licence:

"All use of the Runtime and Runtime Solutions must be on a standalone
basis only. You are prohibited from using the Runtime with any
middleware, application server, CGI, or other software or technology
that allows more than a single client to access the Runtime."

I'm not as certain about the licence ramifications of building a runtime
which is able to export and import data, then merging that data from
multiple copies of the runtime in a single database (or similar methods
of data distribution). You aren't allowed to use plugins which let a
runtime access an ODBC data source, for example, but this restriction
doesn't appear to extend to built-in data import/export features.

Unless, of course, a runtime doesn't have those features. I haven't had
a close enough look at that part.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

> The only legal option is to install a separate copy on each
> person/computer.

Which is why I suggested what I suggested. Copying the database file
to and from the server immediately before and after using it isn't in
contravention of the EULA. Although it violates its spirit somewhat.
But then, shelling out $300x UserCount for a home-grown system to
track something that's done twice a day is silly too, and I think FM
knows that.

> Quote from section 1 (b) of the licence:
>
> "All use of the Runtime and Runtime Solutions must be on a standalone
> basis only. You are prohibited from using the Runtime with any
> middleware, application server, CGI, or other software or technology
> that allows more than a single client to access the Runtime."

Wow. I love EULAs. You can ask for anything in an EULA.
I just realized what that says, and that language is plainly over-
reaching and wouldn't stand up in court.

The last clause literally bans having remote access software active on
the same PC as a Filemaker runtime, which is absurd. In other words if
you use GoToMyPC, PC-Anywhere, VNC, Remote Desktop, etc, etc, etc you
are not allowed to use a Filemaker Runtime.

Of course, FM would never prosecute on that alone, so I wouldn't worry
about it, but I am still annoyed by having to 'agree' to ridiculous
EULA terms.

> Unless, of course, a runtime doesn't have those features. I haven't had
> a close enough look at that part.

The import/export features are disabled. They can be 'added back in'
with a plugin since there is no way for FM to control what a plugin
really does, but it is specifically against the rules to bundle a
plugin that designed to make a runtime 'multi-user'.

But again, in this case, IWP (instant web publishing) is the 'right'
way to do this in a way that is both fully approved by FM, and cost
effective.

-cheers,
Dave

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

In article <1i5gp5m.11o7c4s1r5ytx8N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> Joel L (Pan out the gold) wrote:
>
> > I work for a small company which owns one version of FM9 Advanced -
> > which is on the PC on mm desk. I've designed a Runtime Kiosk version
> > of a simple database for six sales people to request shop services. It
> > is designed so that when the user finishes their entry and selects a
> > "Finish" button, a message is e-mailed to me telling me that a new
> > request has been entered and the application closes as designed. I
> > receive no more than two or three requests daily so we're not talking
> > big numbers here. It works fine on my pc.
> > All seven of us access a common Snapper drive for shared files -
> > mostly product-related photos and files.
> > Is it legal and possible to move the Runtime Folder onto the snapper
> > drive and allow each user to create a shortcut on their desktop to
> > open the Runtime file from Snapper, make their entry and immediately
> > close the file?
>
> No. The licence agreement for runtime databases requires that it not be
> installed in a location where it is able to be executed by multiple
> people/computers.
>
> The only legal option is to install a separate copy on each
> person/computer.
>
> Quote from section 1 (b) of the licence:
>
> "All use of the Runtime and Runtime Solutions must be on a standalone
> basis only. You are prohibited from using the Runtime with any
> middleware, application server, CGI, or other software or technology
> that allows more than a single client to access the Runtime."


I guess it depends on how you read that. Technically only a "single
client" will be accessing the "Runtime" at any one time. You're not
providing a server system that allows multiple users at the same time
to use the files.

It also keeps sayung "the Runtime", which it vague at best - unless
exactly defined elsewhere. The database files themselves can't be
"executed", so you could create multiple runtime aplpications that
access the same stored database files (one user at a time of course).

But ...
Although it can be done and the legality is a little vague, it's still
not a good idea according to FileMaker Inc to run databses across a
network in that manner. You really need to host the files on one
machine's FileMaker license and access them via either FileMaker
licenses installed on each other computer or via the web browser.


Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

Helpful Harry wrote:

> In article <1i5gp5m.11o7c4s1r5ytx8N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
> dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> > Quote from section 1 (b) of the licence:
> >
> > "All use of the Runtime and Runtime Solutions must be on a standalone
> > basis only. You are prohibited from using the Runtime with any
> > middleware, application server, CGI, or other software or technology
> > that allows more than a single client to access the Runtime."
>
>
> I guess it depends on how you read that. Technically only a "single
> client" will be accessing the "Runtime" at any one time. You're not
> providing a server system that allows multiple users at the same time
> to use the files.

I'd be inclined to think that FileMaker would intepret installing an
executable Runtime on a shared hard drive and deliberately using it from
multiple client computers as "allowing" more than a single client to use
it, even if only one was doing so at a time.

As d-42 pointed out, this could be extended to ridiculous levels, e.g.
not allowing anyone to share part of their hard drive if they happen to
have a runtime installed on it.

I agree that the web sharing method is the best approach in this case.

> It also keeps sayung "the Runtime", which it vague at best - unless
> exactly defined elsewhere.

"2. FileMaker Pro Advanced Runtime engine, which is created by the
Application ("Runtime"); "

They are referring to the application code which is incorporated into
the runtime solution.

You aren't allowed to have multiple clients executing a single installed
copy of the application within a runtime solution.

> The database files themselves can't be "executed", so you could create
> multiple runtime aplpications that access the same stored database files
> (one user at a time of course).

That would be a little tricky, as the files have to be in the same
folder as the runtime application. You might be able to achieve this
with aliases, but it would be destructive - same problem as two copies
of FileMaker Pro trying to access a single database via a network.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

d-42 wrote:

> > The only legal option is to install a separate copy on each
> > person/computer.
>
> Which is why I suggested what I suggested.

Agreed - web sharing is the best option.

(Your post hadn't appeared by the time I wrote mine.)

> > Unless, of course, a runtime doesn't have those features. I haven't had
> > a close enough look at that part.
>
> The import/export features are disabled.

Ah, OK. Thanks - saved me doing some research.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

d-42 wrote:

> The import/export features are disabled.

???
not on my 8.0.3 runtimes

so, each runtime can make a .fmp7 sub file with the new/changed records,
put them in a special dedicated network directory where they are
integrated in the central database
And the central database can send files with modifications to import in
dedicated repertories (one for each client), who have to import them.
Sort of syncing.

With macs, this can be automated through Applescripts. Surely with Wxx,
but I dont know how to.

The main problem is doing with network failures.

Note : If you have to work a whole week to fix that problem, you'll have
better buying the group licence...
--
www.D-L-S.org

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

David Empson wrote:

> That would be a little tricky, as the files have to be in the same
> folder as the runtime application.

???
not with FMP 803
--
www.D-L-S.org

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

In article <20071004234847348343@[10.0.1.1]>, pmanet@invivo.edu (manet)
wrote:

> David Empson wrote:
>
> > That would be a little tricky, as the files have to be in the same
> > folder as the runtime application.
>
> ???
> not with FMP 803

Not even with FileMaker Pro 4. :o)


Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database? - THANK YOU ALL

Thank you all for your input.

Today, I tried to install the runtime on the Snapper drive just to see
if it would work. Although I was able to access the Snapper file from
my own PC, it worked laboriously, at best and on other PC's - not at
all so attempting to access a Runtime version from any other PC on the
network is not a workable solution.

Based on your suggestions, I did create my first instant web
publishing version of the database. Though I was extremely satisfied
with the original version, I found the web version to be quite a
disappointment on a point for point comparison basis. For example,
buttons that launched scripts to go to a printable page, print, return
to the colorful input page, send me a confirmation that an order had
been entered and then close the database proved totally incompatible
with the web version as did a number of other script features that
make a standard FileMaker installation so effective. The "web
compatible" checkbox on the scriptmaker is extremely useful - it
verified the fact that so many script options on a standard database
are incompatible with a web solution.

Although our sales people can access the web database version from
anywhere in the county, the facf that I must keep the original
database open on my desktop PC as though it were the "host" proves a
disappointment.

I wonder if others have experienced similar weaknesses in their
instant web publishing solutions.

The fact that we have such low traffic on this particular database
might make it marginally useable and I'm going to givfe it a try but
for a "serious" lmulti-user database with all of FileMaker's
"wonders," the best solution, by far, is to shell out the necessary
dollars for the required number of licenses and a copy of the server
version.





On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:21:35 -0400, "Joel L (Pan out the gold)"
wrote:

>I work for a small company which owns one version of FM9 Advanced -
>which is on the PC on mm desk. I've designed a Runtime Kiosk version
>of a simple database for six sales people to request shop services. It
>is designed so that when the user finishes their entry and selects a
>"Finish" button, a message is e-mailed to me telling me that a new
>request has been entered and the application closes as designed. I
>receive no more than two or three requests daily so we're not talking
>big numbers here. It works fine on my pc.
>All seven of us access a common Snapper drive for shared files -
>mostly product-related photos and files.
>Is it legal and possible to move the Runtime Folder onto the snapper
>drive and allow each user to create a shortcut on their desktop to
>open the Runtime file from Snapper, make their entry and immediately
>close the file?

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

Helpful Harry wrote:

> In article <20071004234847348343@[10.0.1.1]>, pmanet@invivo.edu (manet)
> wrote:
>
> > David Empson wrote:
> >
> > > That would be a little tricky, as the files have to be in the same
> > > folder as the runtime application.
> >
> > ???
> > not with FMP 803
>
> Not even with FileMaker Pro 4. :o)

OK. Give me a break - I just moved to FMP9 and the Advanced version and
am still finding my way around the details of runtimes. :-)

Am I'm correct in saying that the _primary_ file of the solution has to
be in the same folder as the runtime application, but the other files
can be located elsewhere?
--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

manet wrote:

> d-42 wrote:
>
> > The import/export features are disabled.
>
> ???
> not on my 8.0.3 runtimes

Agreed - they are there in my FM9 runtimes as well. From a quick glance
it appears to be fully functional.

> so, each runtime can make a .fmp7 sub file with the new/changed records,
> put them in a special dedicated network directory where they are
> integrated in the central database
> And the central database can send files with modifications to import in
> dedicated repertories (one for each client), who have to import them.
> Sort of syncing.
>
> With macs, this can be automated through Applescripts. Surely with Wxx,
> but I dont know how to.
>
> The main problem is doing with network failures.
>
> Note : If you have to work a whole week to fix that problem, you'll have
> better buying the group licence...

For a commercial operation, yes.

It might be a cost effective solution for a volunteer organisation who
can't afford to buy multiple licences of FileMaker Pro but have people
willing to put the time into developing a free or cheap solution for
them, or for something like a freeware or shareware solution which
imports updates from a master database which is distributed via the
Internet.

The question is whether it violates the licence. It seems to go against
the spirit at least.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

In article <1i5iint.14offhd13skpr3N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> Helpful Harry wrote:
>
> > In article <20071004234847348343@[10.0.1.1]>, pmanet@invivo.edu (manet)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > David Empson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That would be a little tricky, as the files have to be in the same
> > > > folder as the runtime application.
> > >
> > > ???
> > > not with FMP 803
> >
> > Not even with FileMaker Pro 4. :o)
>
> OK. Give me a break - I just moved to FMP9 and the Advanced version and
> am still finding my way around the details of runtimes. :-)
>
> Am I'm correct in saying that the _primary_ file of the solution has to
> be in the same folder as the runtime application, but the other files
> can be located elsewhere?

Nope. As far as I'm aware there's no limitation on where the data files
and application can be stored. There are obviously some files that must
be stored in certain places (eg. fonts must be in the fonts folder,
etc., and the old Mac versions have some extensions that should be in
the Extensions folder of the System folder).

I haven't bothered to test it, but it MIGHT make a difference if you
double-click the application and it looks for the documents, but if you
double-click the data files they will open in the correct runtime
application - that's the point of defining your own key / code. This
means you can put the data files wherever you want.

It's meant to work just like any other application - a Word document
can be stored anywhere and double-clicking it will open Word
automatically.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Re: Can I/May I - Share a Runtime Database?

On Oct 4, 11:09 pm, demp...@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> manet wrote:
> > d-42 wrote:
>
> > > The import/export features are disabled.
>
> > ???
> > not on my 8.0.3 runtimes
>
> Agreed - they are there in my FM9 runtimes as well. From a quick glance
> it appears to be fully functional.

My bad. You are right. Of course you can import export. I've done it
myself. :)

That said, I could have -sworn- they disabled something related to
this. I'll have to reread the manual again...

-dave