xhtml and input tag outside form

am 22.01.2008 21:14:22 von Zone

Hello,

I have tried to understand why input field is valid outside form tag.
I seems to work outside form if e.g. input tag is inserted inside div tag.

I tried to read http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd
but didn't find any solution.

Can anyone clearify were input is accepted if it's not inside form?

Cheers,

Re: xhtml and input tag outside form

am 23.01.2008 10:43:23 von Toby A Inkster

Zone wrote:

> I have tried to understand why input field is valid outside form tag. I
> seems to work outside form if e.g. input tag is inserted inside div tag.

(and , <button>) is an inline element, like <span> or <br /> <em>, so can be used in any context where inline content is allowed, which <br /> is virtually everywhere.<br /> <br /> Why? Because otherwise <input> couldn't be contained in, for example, a <br /> paragraph, even if that paragraph was itself within a form,<br /> <br /> -- <br /> Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS<br /> [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]<br /> [OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 23 days, 20:54.]<br /> <br /> CSS to HTML Compiler<br /> http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/01/22/css-compile/</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 11:08:43 von Harlan Messinger</span> <p>Zone wrote:<br /> > Hello,<br /> > <br /> > I have tried to understand why input field is valid outside form tag.<br /> > I seems to work outside form if e.g. input tag is inserted inside div tag.<br /> > <br /> > I tried to read http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd<br /> > but didn't find any solution.<br /> > <br /> > Can anyone clearify were input is accepted if it's not inside form?<br /> <br /> Besides what Toby said about why it's valid (which is correct) it's also <br /> reasonable if you're using controls to receive user input that is going <br /> to be used on the client side rather than for submitting to a server. An <br /> example would be a client-side measurement or currency converter coded <br /> in Javascript. Functionally speaking there's no need for a form since <br /> nothing is being submitted to the server.</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 12:13:30 von jkorpela</span> <p>Scripsit Toby A Inkster:<br /> <br /> > <input> (and <textarea>, <button>) is an inline element, like <span><br /> > or <em>, so can be used in any context where inline content is<br /> > allowed, which is virtually everywhere.<br /> <br /> Well, not quite everywhere. Not in the document's head, and in Strict, <br /> not in its body either. :-)<br /> <br /> (Just kidding. But really, in Strict versions, <input> is not allowed <br /> _directly_ inside <body>, i.e. as a child element, only indirectly <br /> inside a block-like container.)<br /> <br /> > Why? Because otherwise <input> couldn't be contained in, for example,<br /> > a paragraph, even if that paragraph was itself within a form,<br /> <br /> No, the syntax rules _could_ have been written so that <input> is only <br /> allowed inside a <form> directly or indirectly. That would be fairly <br /> simple in classic HTML, nominally based on SGML (which has exclusion <br /> exceptions). It would not be possible at the DTD level in XHTML, based <br /> on the toy version of SGML called XML, but it could have been added as <br /> requirement in prose, just as XHTML 1.0 prosaically forbids an <a> <br /> element inside an <a> element even though its DTD syntax allows it.<br /> <br /> The real reason is that people who decided on HTML specs wanted to allow <br /> lone <input> elements for use with client-side scripting.<br /> <br /> -- <br /> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")<br /> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 16:25:07 von Zone</span> <p>"Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> wrote in message <br /> news:1jFlj.285172$8v3.64083@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...<br /> > Scripsit Toby A Inkster:<br /> ><br /> >> <input> (and <textarea>, <button>) is an inline element, like <span><br /> >> or <em>, so can be used in any context where inline content is<br /> >> allowed, which is virtually everywhere.<br /> ><br /> > Well, not quite everywhere. Not in the document's head, and in Strict, not <br /> > in its body either. :-)<br /> ><br /> > (Just kidding. But really, in Strict versions, <input> is not allowed <br /> > _directly_ inside <body>, i.e. as a child element, only indirectly inside <br /> > a block-like container.)<br /> ><br /> >> Why? Because otherwise <input> couldn't be contained in, for example,<br /> >> a paragraph, even if that paragraph was itself within a form,<br /> ><br /> > No, the syntax rules _could_ have been written so that <input> is only <br /> > allowed inside a <form> directly or indirectly. That would be fairly <br /> > simple in classic HTML, nominally based on SGML (which has exclusion <br /> > exceptions). It would not be possible at the DTD level in XHTML, based on <br /> > the toy version of SGML called XML, but it could have been added as <br /> > requirement in prose, just as XHTML 1.0 prosaically forbids an <a> element <br /> > inside an <a> element even though its DTD syntax allows it.<br /> ><br /> > The real reason is that people who decided on HTML specs wanted to allow <br /> > lone <input> elements for use with client-side scripting.<br /> ><br /> > -- <br /> > Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")<br /> > http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/<br /> <br /> Can anyone explain where are the code in <br /> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd<br /> that tells input tag can be outside of form tag but it must be e.g. inside <br /> div tag.<br /> <br /> This kind of issues can be tested by a validator but I would like know how <br /> to read it from DTD file's syntax.<br /> <br /> Cheers,</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 16:50:05 von jkorpela</span> <p>Scripsit Zone:<br /> <br /> > "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> wrote in message<br /> > news:1jFlj.285172$8v3.64083@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...<br /> ....<br /> >> --<br /> >> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")<br /> >> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/<br /> <br /> A comprehensive quote, down to a sig, is the usual sign of lack of <br /> comprehensive reading. Please keep using that style as long as you <br /> remain clueless. Using XHTML in web authoring isn't a _sure_ sign of <br /> cluelessness, you know, though often a useful hint.<br /> <br /> > Can anyone explain where are the code in<br /> > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd<br /> > that tells input tag can be outside of form tag but it must be e.g.<br /> > inside div tag.<br /> <br /> Is that a serious question? It looks like one, but other symptoms <br /> suggest the opposite,<br /> <br /> Anyway, here are some crucial declarations from it:<br /> <br /> <!ENTITY % block<br /> "p | %heading; | div | %lists; | %blocktext; | fieldset | table"><br /> <br /> <!ENTITY % Block "(%block; | form | %misc;)*"><br /> <br /> <!ELEMENT body %Block;><br /> <br /> Now, how can you have an <input> element inside the body? Hint: check <br /> the definition of %misc to see that there's nothing there that allows <br /> <input>. Then work out the declarations for the block-level elements <br /> like <p> and <div> to see that <input> is allowed there<br /> <br /> -- <br /> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")<br /> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 21:15:27 von dorayme</span> <p>In article <NmJlj.285285$iM4.194787@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi>,<br /> "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> wrote:<br /> <br /> > Scripsit Zone:<br /> > <br /> > > "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> wrote in message<br /> > > news:1jFlj.285172$8v3.64083@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...<br /> > ...<br /> > >> --<br /> > >> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")<br /> > >> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/<br /> > <br /> > A comprehensive quote, down to a sig, is the usual sign of lack of <br /> > comprehensive reading. Please keep using that style as long as you <br /> > remain clueless. Using XHTML in web authoring isn't a _sure_ sign of <br /> > cluelessness, you know, though often a useful hint.<br /> > <br /> > > Can anyone explain where are the code in<br /> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd<br /> > > that tells input tag can be outside of form tag but it must be e.g.<br /> > > inside div tag.<br /> > <br /> > Is that a serious question? It looks like one, but other symptoms <br /> > suggest the opposite,<br /> > <br /> > Anyway, here are some crucial declarations from it:<br /> > <br /> > <!ENTITY % block<br /> > "p | %heading; | div | %lists; | %blocktext; | fieldset | table"><br /> > <br /> > <!ENTITY % Block "(%block; | form | %misc;)*"><br /> > <br /> > <!ELEMENT body %Block;><br /> > <br /> > Now, how can you have an <input> element inside the body? Hint: check <br /> > the definition of %misc to see that there's nothing there that allows <br /> > <input>. Then work out the declarations for the block-level elements <br /> > like <p> and <div> to see that <input> is allowed there<br /> <br /> It's such a damn shame or a sight to behold (I rather fancy the <br /> latter, there being too many damn shames in this world already) <br /> that you can be so informative (the point about the %misc being <br /> something that perhaps only you and 4 others on the planet would <br /> have spotted *quickly*) yet give all this personally insulting <br /> preamble babble. <br /> <br /> How is it that something like me from a quite different planet <br /> can see that the OP is quite sincere and serious and you can't? <br /> Perhaps you need to get out of Iceland more often. Perhaps Bobby <br /> Fisher's late presence has had an unsettling effect deep down for <br /> years?<br /> <br /> -- <br /> dorayme</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 22:32:50 von jkorpela</span> <p>Scripsit dorayme:<br /> <br /> [ quoting something that he or she has almost nothing to say about, and <br /> no positive contribution ]<br /> <br /> > It's such a damn shame or a sight<br /> <br /> Excuse me while I yawn.<br /> <br /> > How is it that something like me from a quite different planet<br /> > can see that the OP is quite sincere and serious and you can't?<br /> <br /> If you quote like a moron, stay tuned to being treated like one. <br /> Sometimes you might get away with it, but that's not a reason to act <br /> moronically.<br /> <br /> -- <br /> Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")<br /> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 22:54:30 von Harlan Messinger</span> <p>Jukka K. Korpela wrote:<br /> > Scripsit dorayme:<br /> > <br /> > [ quoting something that he or she has almost nothing to say about, and <br /> > no positive contribution ]<br /> > <br /> >> It's such a damn shame or a sight<br /> > <br /> > Excuse me while I yawn.<br /> > <br /> >> How is it that something like me from a quite different planet<br /> >> can see that the OP is quite sincere and serious and you can't?<br /> > <br /> > If you quote like a moron, stay tuned to being treated like one. <br /> > Sometimes you might get away with it, but that's not a reason to act <br /> > moronically.<br /> > <br /> How about people who act like venom-spitting sociopaths? How should they <br /> expect to be treated?</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 23.01.2008 23:36:56 von Toby A Inkster</span> <p>dorayme wrote:<br /> <br /> > Perhaps you need to get out of Iceland more often.<br /> <br /> Finland, Shirley?<br /> <br /> -- <br /> Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS<br /> [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]<br /> [OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 24 days, 9:49.]<br /> <br /> CSS to HTML Compiler<br /> http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/01/22/css-compile/</p> </article> <article> <h2>Re: xhtml and input tag outside form</h2><span>am 24.01.2008 01:09:32 von dorayme</span> <p>In article <85sk65-0k9.ln1@ophelia.g5n.co.uk>,<br /> Toby A Inkster <usenet200801@tobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:<br /> <br /> > dorayme wrote:<br /> > <br /> > > Perhaps you need to get out of Iceland more often.<br /> > <br /> > Finland, Shirley?<br /> <br /> Mrs Goldberg is having a drink at the bar of her regular club <br /> when an oriental gentleman accidentally knocks over her drink.<br /> <br /> "You damned Japanese!" yells Mrs Goldberg. "First you gave us <br /> Pearl Harbour, now this!"<br /> <br /> "Hold on a minute. I'm not Japanese, I'm Chinese."<br /> <br /> "Chinese, Japanese â so what's in a name?"<br /> <br /> "And you Jews," replies the Chinese, "you can talk! You sank the <br /> Titanic!"<br /> <br /> "We sank what?" asked the astonished Mrs Goldberg, "The Titanic <br /> was sunk by an iceberg!"<br /> <br /> "Iceberg, Goldberg. So what's in a name?"<br /> <br /> -- <br /> dorayme</p> </article> <footer> <a href="/">Index</a> | <a href="/impressum.php">Impressum</a> | <a href="/datenschutz.php">Datenschutz</a> | <a href="https://www.xodox.de/">XODOX</a> </footer> </main> </body> </html>