Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

I'm now doing PHP work from home. If I'm in the USA, and my client is
in the UK, what's the cheapest yet most reliable way to get paid? I
checked Western Union and they want to charge my client 100 pounds. I
checked PayPal and they want to charge 9.3%. Geesh, there's got to be
a better way. I looked at wire transfer but on Craigslist they have a
warning never to let a foreign customer wire money to you because you
could be set up for a scam and find your bank account is drained.

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

Hello,

on 01/28/2008 12:39 AM Roberto said the following:
> I'm now doing PHP work from home. If I'm in the USA, and my client is
> in the UK, what's the cheapest yet most reliable way to get paid? I
> checked Western Union and they want to charge my client 100 pounds. I
> checked PayPal and they want to charge 9.3%. Geesh, there's got to be
> a better way. I looked at wire transfer but on Craigslist they have a
> warning never to let a foreign customer wire money to you because you
> could be set up for a scam and find your bank account is drained.

I am not UK based, so I don't know what applies.

Usually wire transfer is safe and fast. There is no way anybody is going
to drain your bank account because you are the one that is receiving
the money.

Paypal is more convinient for the receiver but they charge up to 4% .
Withdrawing funds from a Paypal account in the US is free. I don't know
where you have seen it costs 9.3% .

Forget Western Union unless you need the money in the same day it is
sent. It is too expensive.

There is also international postal money order. Your client sends the
money in a local post office and you can receive it in 5 five days in
your local post office.

I think Paypal is probably more convinient.

--

Regards,
Manuel Lemos

PHP professionals looking for PHP jobs
http://www.phpclasses.org/professionals/

PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP
http://www.phpclasses.org/

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

> I am not UK based, so I don't know what applies.
>
> Usually wire transfer is safe and fast.
>
> Paypal is more convenient for the receiver but they charge up to 4%.
>
> I think Paypal is probably more convenient.
>
> Regards,
> Manuel Lemos

Thanks, Manuel. I'll check my bank about the wire transfer costs on
both ends, and then consider PayPal as an alternative. The 4% of $5000
is $200 -- jeesh, that's still too steep.

Say, I started a new thread on Google Groups for this since I figured
this may stray out of being PHP related. For all of you with other
responses, please put them here:

http://groups.google.com/group/phpfreelance?hl=en

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

Hello,

on 01/28/2008 01:58 AM Roberto said the following:
>> I am not UK based, so I don't know what applies.
>>
>> Usually wire transfer is safe and fast.
>>
>> Paypal is more convenient for the receiver but they charge up to 4%.
>>
>> I think Paypal is probably more convenient.
>
> Thanks, Manuel. I'll check my bank about the wire transfer costs on
> both ends, and then consider PayPal as an alternative. The 4% of $5000
> is $200 -- jeesh, that's still too steep.

In some countries, 4% is what the credit card companies charge to
businesses. Paypal may get better fees because they make a large volume
of transactions, but they still have to profit on every transaction.


> Say, I started a new thread on Google Groups for this since I figured
> this may stray out of being PHP related. For all of you with other
> responses, please put them here:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/phpfreelance?hl=en

I am not sure if anybody will bother to go there because it is very
specific.


--

Regards,
Manuel Lemos

PHP professionals looking for PHP jobs
http://www.phpclasses.org/professionals/

PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP
http://www.phpclasses.org/

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

On Jan 27, 6:39 pm, Roberto <8...@myway.com> wrote:
>
> I'm now doing PHP work from home. If I'm in the USA,
> and my client is in the UK, what's the cheapest yet
> most reliable way to get paid?

Reliable? Bank wire transfer or PayPal. Cheapest? Depends on how
much money is being sent. Banks usually charge a flat fee for
incoming wires ($10 or so), regardless of the amount. The payor will
have to pay a (probably higher) fee to their bank as well.

> I checked PayPal and they want to charge 9.3%.

Are you sure it's not 3.9%?

> Geesh, there's got to be a better way.

Internationally? Nope. International payments were developed for
large transactions, so anything small is disproportionally
expensive...

> I looked at wire transfer but on Craigslist they have
> a warning never to let a foreign customer wire money
> to you because you could be set up for a scam and find
> your bank account is drained.

Not really... The way this scam works is that someone wires money to
you, you ship them the goods, and a couple of days later they claim
that the wire was sent by mistake, so the transaction is reversed (big
guys use letters of credit to prevent it from happening, but they are
prohibitively expensive for small transactions). What you need to do
to prevent it from happening is to set up a bank account specifically
for accepting wires and keep a near-zero balance in it (as soon as the
wire arrives, you transfer most of it into another account).

Cheers,
NC

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

Roberto wrote:
> I'm now doing PHP work from home. If I'm in the USA, and my client is
> in the UK, what's the cheapest yet most reliable way to get paid? I
> checked Western Union and they want to charge my client 100 pounds. I
> checked PayPal and they want to charge 9.3%. Geesh, there's got to be
> a better way. I looked at wire transfer but on Craigslist they have a
> warning never to let a foreign customer wire money to you because you
> could be set up for a scam and find your bank account is drained.

If you dont mind waiting take a cheque.


Just pay it in. The wheels grind slow, but cheaply.

Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
authorize outward transfers.

Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
some kind of PIN.

The information to allow a wire transfer in is no more than you give
away on any cheque you write.

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

NC wrote:
> > I looked at wire transfer but on Craigslist they have
> > a warning never to let a foreign customer wire money
> > to you because you could be set up for a scam and find
> > your bank account is drained.
>
> Not really... The way this scam works is that someone wires money to
> you, you ship them the goods, and a couple of days later they claim
> that the wire was sent by mistake, so the transaction is reversed (big
> guys use letters of credit to prevent it from happening, but they are
> prohibitively expensive for small transactions). What you need to do
> to prevent it from happening is to set up a bank account specifically
> for accepting wires and keep a near-zero balance in it (as soon as the
> wire arrives, you transfer most of it into another account).

There aer several variations of that type of fraud and having a near
zero balance does not prevent it.

Bye!

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
> authorize outward transfers.
>
> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
> some kind of PIN.

In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
fraudulently made.

In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
account just using the account number.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm

Bye!

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

Anonymous wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
>> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
>> authorize outward transfers.
>>
>> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
>> some kind of PIN.
>
> In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
> well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
> fraudulently made.
>
> In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
> account just using the account number.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
>
> Bye!
>

Very true. I use this every month when I pay bills. tell the company
I'm paying the account number, etc., and the amount I wish to pay and
they get the money from my bank account.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

On 28 Jan, 02:39, Roberto <8...@myway.com> wrote:
> I'm now doing PHP work from home. If I'm in the USA, and my client is
> in the UK, what's the cheapest yet most reliable way to get paid? I
> checked Western Union and they want to charge my client 100 pounds. I
> checked PayPal and they want to charge 9.3%. Geesh, there's got to be
> a better way. I looked at wire transfer but on Craigslist they have a
> warning never to let a foreign customer wire money to you because you
> could be set up for a scam and find your bank account is drained.

I use Google Checkout. Is free for 3 more days and then a very
reasonable rate (better than PayPal's rate anyway - no cros border
fees for a start).

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

Anonymous wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
>> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
>> authorize outward transfers.
>>
>> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
>> some kind of PIN.
>
> In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
> well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
> fraudulently made.
>
> In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
> account just using the account number.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
>

No, it isn't. First of all Clarkson would have had to have had relaxed
rules set up on his account.

Secondly only charities are allowed to use that route. Its hard to
profit by it other than setting up a charity and registering
it..criminal prefer other methods.

Thirdly, it was an obvious direct debit that showed up instantly. His
bank probably SHOULD have written to him confirming that they had set it
up. My guess is that someone at the bank decided 'serves him right' and
didn't...


You probably regularly give your card details including security code to
dozens of people over the phone, or on secure websites. It doesn't mean
that you instantly are going to get ripped.


However, in any case, check with your bank. People have been taking
wired salary cheques for years without problem. This just happens to be
someone you don't know that well, thats all.

If you are supremely bothered, set up an account specifically for the
purpose, and drain it every time it gets a transfer.

That way of your bank is negligent enough to allow someone to pull money
out of it without your authorisation, its their problem not yours.






> Bye!

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Anonymous wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
>>> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
>>> authorize outward transfers.
>>>
>>> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
>>> some kind of PIN.
>>
>> In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
>> well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
>> fraudulently made.
>>
>> In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
>> account just using the account number.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
>>
>> Bye!
>>
>
> Very true. I use this every month when I pay bills. tell the company
> I'm paying the account number, etc., and the amount I wish to pay and
> they get the money from my bank account.
>

I didn't think you were that stupid.

On reflection, perhaps I did..


I ONLY use direct debit when there is a company of impeccable nature
standing behind, and I need to authorise every single arrangement with
the bank. Usually including a signed piece of paper by me.

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Anonymous wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
>>>> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
>>>> authorize outward transfers.
>>>>
>>>> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
>>>> some kind of PIN.
>>>
>>> In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
>>> well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
>>> fraudulently made.
>>>
>>> In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
>>> account just using the account number.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
>>>
>>> Bye!
>>>
>>
>> Very true. I use this every month when I pay bills. tell the company
>> I'm paying the account number, etc., and the amount I wish to pay and
>> they get the money from my bank account.
>>
>
> I didn't think you were that stupid.
>
> On reflection, perhaps I did..
>
>
> I ONLY use direct debit when there is a company of impeccable nature
> standing behind, and I need to authorise every single arrangement with
> the bank. Usually including a signed piece of paper by me.
>
>
>

I didn't say this was just any company.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Anonymous wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
>>> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
>>> authorize outward transfers.
>>>
>>> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
>>> some kind of PIN.
>>
>> In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
>> well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
>> fraudulently made.
>>
>> In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
>> account just using the account number.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
>>
>
> No, it isn't. First of all Clarkson would have had to have had relaxed
> rules set up on his account.
>

Nope.

> Secondly only charities are allowed to use that route. Its hard to
> profit by it other than setting up a charity and registering
> it..criminal prefer other methods.
>

Wrong again. Commonly used by credit card companies, for instance.

> Thirdly, it was an obvious direct debit that showed up instantly. His
> bank probably SHOULD have written to him confirming that they had set it
> up. My guess is that someone at the bank decided 'serves him right' and
> didn't...
>

Mine never has - and it's one of the largest banks in the country.

>
> You probably regularly give your card details including security code to
> dozens of people over the phone, or on secure websites. It doesn't mean
> that you instantly are going to get ripped.
>

Nope. I use virtual account numbers - good for one time use only.

>
> However, in any case, check with your bank. People have been taking
> wired salary cheques for years without problem. This just happens to be
> someone you don't know that well, thats all.
>
> If you are supremely bothered, set up an account specifically for the
> purpose, and drain it every time it gets a transfer.
>

That's always good advice.

> That way of your bank is negligent enough to allow someone to pull money
> out of it without your authorisation, its their problem not yours.
>
>

No, it's your problem, also. You still have to get your money back.

>
>
>
>
>> Bye!
>


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Getting Paid from Abroad as a PHP Developer

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> Anonymous wrote:
> > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >
> >> Its not possible to drain your account just knowing the sort codes and
> >> account number. Check with your bank, but normally only YOU can
> >> authorize outward transfers.
> >>
> >> Either by some telephoned shared secret, your physical signature, or
> >> some kind of PIN.
> >
> > In theory you are right. However, banks don't check authorization too
> > well and rely on their customers to tell them when a charge has been
> > fraudulently made.
> >
> > In practice it is possible to take any amount of money from a bank
> > account just using the account number.
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm
> >
>
> No, it isn't. First of all Clarkson would have had to have had relaxed
> rules set up on his account.

No, not neccessarily. Where I live any registered company (not only
charities) which jumps through a few hoops (the usual background and
credit checks) can have their company account set up to receive debits.
Once that has been set up by the bank they can debit any account they
like with any sum they like.

Of course, in theory this requires your authorization. But in practice
it doesn't! As I have already stated, the banks assume that you have
given the company your consent to debit your account and simply send the
money off. The bank can't know if you have given your consent (no matter
whether in writing or only oral) to the company or not.

For regular debits (paying your rent, telephone company, etc.) it is
quite common to send your bank your consent that company X can draw
money from your account. For one time payments (e.g. you bought some
stuff from Amazon) your consent to draw from your account is usually
only given to the company.

However, you do have the right to dispute the charge within 5 weeks from
the day you have been informed of it by your bank. If you do so your
bank will reverse-charge the debit. They are even legally required to do
so.

> Secondly only charities are allowed to use that route. Its hard to
> profit by it other than setting up a charity and registering
> it..criminal prefer other methods.

It is not required to be a charity to receive debits. At least not here.
However, criminals also prefer other methods here. It's not so easy to
set up your account to be able to receive debits fraudulently. If a bank
does set up your account for that they usually have a very good idea
about who you are and how they can get their money back from you if lots
of your customers dispute your charges. On top of that, you get billed
quite a lot for disputed charges.

> Thirdly, it was an obvious direct debit that showed up instantly. His
> bank probably SHOULD have written to him confirming that they had set it
> up. My guess is that someone at the bank decided 'serves him right' and
> didn't...

Nope, it's common practice to neither check nor inform your customers of
any single transaction. Except perhaps for very unusual ones. You
usually get a list of all transaction once every 1-3 months, depending
on your contract with your bank.

> If you are supremely bothered, set up an account specifically for the
> purpose, and drain it every time it gets a transfer.
>
> That way of your bank is negligent enough to allow someone to pull money
> out of it without your authorisation, its their problem not yours.

Usually this is true. At least if the account is set up that there is no
allowance for overdrawing it. However, this will only protect you agains
the "criminal debits your account" scenario which is quite unlikely, as
mentioned above.

But it does not protect you from the reverse-charge fraud. If you
receive money and take it off the account and after that if your bank is
legally bound (or bound by contracts with other banks) to reverse-charge
the money transfer your received (because the sender claims the transfer
has been made without his knowledge or authorization, or any similar
reason) your account *will* be charged with it. Your account will simply
be in the red and your bank will call you and ask you to balance your
account. If you fail to do so immediately you will even have to pay
interest.

As I already said, there are several variations of the reverse-charge
fraud. The most common today are the financial agent and the ebay
variations. And there is no protection against it. Except of course
knowledge to recognizing them and vigilance in not falling for them.

Bye!