Best framework for someone who isn"t scared of SQL

Hi all,

I don't mean to bring up the never ending battle between frameworks,
but I'm ready to get started on a large project and would like some
guidance.

It seems like the majority of frameworks out there try to hide the
complicated underpinnings of code away in some sort of magic box.
Sure this box can be added to with many interesting and easy auto-
generated enhancements, but only if they are compatible with that
particular box. It looks like tying oneself to a particular framework
will be a long term commitment with limited code portability (to other
frameworks at least).

Anyways, one of my biggest issues with frameworks is the auto-
generation of SQL statements like ActiveRecord.

While I'm no guru, I am not afraid of writing SQL. I'm almost ashamed
to say I enjoy it sometimes. I like setting up a schema that is
normalized and efficient. I like having full control over my
application and how it interacts with the database to ensure
intelligent use of the database connection. Writing a data access
layer isn't the most fun thing to do, but it's useful knowing how my
objects interact with the database.

I just don't like being in the dark on how my application works and I
hate hearing framework documentation telling me to use some method and
not ask questions.

Is there a framework out there that helps me deal with writing a large
web app yet doesn't try hide every bit of complexity?

I appreciate any answers you have.

Re: Best framework for someone who isn"t scared of SQL

Try CodeIgniter.

Cheers

Luigi

Re: Best framework for someone who isn"t scared of SQL

Jeremy wrote:

> Is there a framework out there that helps me deal with writing a large
> web app yet doesn't try hide every bit of complexity?

If there's one, it must be on this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_application_framewo rks#PHP


Cheers,
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Re: Best framework for someone who isn"t scared of SQL

On Jan 29, 3:47 am, Jeremy wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I don't mean to bring up the never ending battle between frameworks,
> but I'm ready to get started on a large project and would like some
> guidance.
>
> It seems like the majority of frameworks out there try to hide the
> complicated underpinnings of code away in some sort of magic box.
> Sure this box can be added to with many interesting and easy auto-
> generated enhancements, but only if they are compatible with that
> particular box. It looks like tying oneself to a particular framework
> will be a long term commitment with limited code portability (to other
> frameworks at least).
>
> Anyways, one of my biggest issues with frameworks is the auto-
> generation of SQL statements like ActiveRecord.
>
> While I'm no guru, I am not afraid of writing SQL. I'm almost ashamed
> to say I enjoy it sometimes. I like setting up a schema that is
> normalized and efficient. I like having full control over my
> application and how it interacts with the database to ensure
> intelligent use of the database connection. Writing a data access
> layer isn't the most fun thing to do, but it's useful knowing how my
> objects interact with the database.
>
> I just don't like being in the dark on how my application works and I
> hate hearing framework documentation telling me to use some method and
> not ask questions.
>
> Is there a framework out there that helps me deal with writing a large
> web app yet doesn't try hide every bit of complexity?
>
> I appreciate any answers you have.

Everything you've said suggests (to me, anyway) that you should just
write your own. It really isn't that hard to do and you'll find it
much easier to add on to later. The problem with most frameworks is
that they try to be everything to everyone -- and end up making it
difficult to do things that they can't do. If you write your own
you'll know exactly how it works, how to change it, how to add to it,
etc.

Re: Best framework for someone who isn"t scared of SQL

ZeldorBlat wrote:
> On Jan 29, 3:47 am, Jeremy wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I don't mean to bring up the never ending battle between frameworks,
>> but I'm ready to get started on a large project and would like some
>> guidance.
>>
>> It seems like the majority of frameworks out there try to hide the
>> complicated underpinnings of code away in some sort of magic box.
>> Sure this box can be added to with many interesting and easy auto-
>> generated enhancements, but only if they are compatible with that
>> particular box. It looks like tying oneself to a particular framework
>> will be a long term commitment with limited code portability (to other
>> frameworks at least).
>>
>> Anyways, one of my biggest issues with frameworks is the auto-
>> generation of SQL statements like ActiveRecord.
>>
>> While I'm no guru, I am not afraid of writing SQL. I'm almost ashamed
>> to say I enjoy it sometimes. I like setting up a schema that is
>> normalized and efficient. I like having full control over my
>> application and how it interacts with the database to ensure
>> intelligent use of the database connection. Writing a data access
>> layer isn't the most fun thing to do, but it's useful knowing how my
>> objects interact with the database.
>>
>> I just don't like being in the dark on how my application works and I
>> hate hearing framework documentation telling me to use some method and
>> not ask questions.
>>
>> Is there a framework out there that helps me deal with writing a large
>> web app yet doesn't try hide every bit of complexity?
>>
>> I appreciate any answers you have.
>
> Everything you've said suggests (to me, anyway) that you should just
> write your own. It really isn't that hard to do and you'll find it
> much easier to add on to later. The problem with most frameworks is
> that they try to be everything to everyone -- and end up making it
> difficult to do things that they can't do. If you write your own
> you'll know exactly how it works, how to change it, how to add to it,
> etc.

I have to agree 100%.

Just start planning the project: you will soon see how many times you do
the same, or similar things and a library will emerge naturally.

One tailored to YOUR app.