Question regarding program discovery

So I'm trying to figure out something...we need our company's internal
PHP based intranet site redone as it runs horribly. We recently hired
a company to come in and take a look at the code and give us some sort
of specification for what we have and what needs to be done to rewrite
the code in .NET they charged us around $5000 for Discovery time and
gave us two sheets of paper with graphs on either. One of the graphs
shows the relationship between database tables in a flow chart manner
and the other shows an interface tree starting at "Dashboard" with
branches showing the different sections and the general actions you
can do in those sections. Now does any of this crap sound useful at
all? Or did we just get robbed? We're still withholding half of the
$5k and are willing to hold in ransom until we get our money's worth.

Mind you we had no previous specification whatsoever other than user
tutorials we gave to new hires.

Re: Question regarding program discovery

In article <12ba17af-39c8-480a-9d32-b25dcf6264f1@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
>So I'm trying to figure out something...we need our company's internal
>PHP based intranet site redone as it runs horribly. We recently hired
>a company to come in and take a look at the code and give us some sort
>of specification for what we have and what needs to be done to rewrite
>the code in .NET they charged us around $5000 for Discovery time and
>gave us two sheets of paper with graphs on either.

If you'd have asked here first, you may have gotten many useful
suggestions on re-doing it yourself with PHP and a good Content
Management System (CMS). There are free ones out there (although since
you're a company you'd still pay for it).

> One of the graphs shows the relationship between database tables
>in a flow chart manner and the other shows an interface tree
>starting at "Dashboard" with branches showing the different
>sections and the general actions you can do in those sections. Now
>does any of this crap sound useful at all? Or did we just get
>robbed? We're still withholding half of the $5k and are willing to
>hold in ransom until we get our money's worth.

Sounds to me like they want you to think that you need them. Some
of it may be your fault too, if you specified to them that you want
..NET rather than PHP. Nothing wrong with PHP; in fact it may even
be a lighter load on your servers than .NET.

A lot of consulting companies have canned solutions that they are
comfortable with, and often these solutions involve Microsoft
products.

That's why you see so many companies exposing Exchange mail servers
on the internet without a protective Linux server acting as a
shield.

Withholding an agreed-on payment may get you into legal trouble,
especially if the end product was open ended and ill-defined. You
made a mistake, and mistakes are expensive. If it were me, I'd just
give up on those consultants and find a good CMS for managing my
corporate intranet.

-A

Re: Question regarding program discovery

wrote in message
news:12ba17af-39c8-480a-9d32-b25dcf6264f1@s13g2000prd.google groups.com...
> So I'm trying to figure out something...we need our company's internal
> PHP based intranet site redone as it runs horribly. We recently hired
> a company to come in and take a look at the code and give us some sort
> of specification for what we have and what needs to be done to rewrite
> the code in .NET they charged us around $5000 for Discovery time and
> gave us two sheets of paper with graphs on either. One of the graphs
> shows the relationship between database tables in a flow chart manner
> and the other shows an interface tree starting at "Dashboard" with
> branches showing the different sections and the general actions you
> can do in those sections. Now does any of this crap sound useful at
> all? Or did we just get robbed? We're still withholding half of the
> $5k and are willing to hold in ransom until we get our money's worth.
>
> Mind you we had no previous specification whatsoever other than user
> tutorials we gave to new hires.

this is not a legal forum. however, what did you both agree on that was to
be done? did they do it? if they did, pay up. if they didn't, show them what
they agreed to do (since you aren't braindead and had a contract)...tell
them you'll pay them when the contract is fulfilled.

Re: Question regarding program discovery

egaskill@gmail.com wrote:
> So I'm trying to figure out something...we need our company's internal
> PHP based intranet site redone as it runs horribly. We recently hired
> a company to come in and take a look at the code and give us some sort
> of specification for what we have and what needs to be done to rewrite
> the code in .NET they charged us around $5000 for Discovery time and
> gave us two sheets of paper with graphs on either. One of the graphs
> shows the relationship between database tables in a flow chart manner
> and the other shows an interface tree starting at "Dashboard" with
> branches showing the different sections and the general actions you
> can do in those sections. Now does any of this crap sound useful at
> all? Or did we just get robbed? We're still withholding half of the
> $5k and are willing to hold in ransom until we get our money's worth.
>
> Mind you we had no previous specification whatsoever other than user
> tutorials we gave to new hires.
>

IMHO, you got robbed. Legal robbery, but robbery none the less.

But if they provided what you contracted for, you need to pay them. If
they did not, you need to dispute what they did not provide according to
the terms of your contract. It's all in what the contract claimed.

See a lawyer.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: Question regarding program discovery

On Jan 31, 1:24 pm, egask...@gmail.com wrote:
> So I'm trying to figure out something...we need our company's internal
> PHP based intranet site redone as it runs horribly. We recently hired
> a company to come in and take a look at the code and give us some sort
> of specification for what we have and what needs to be done to rewrite
> the code in .NET

Since I'm a PHP person and don't use MS Windows I would have no clue
about the benefits of .NET except that some web apps in .NET I can't
access form Linux or Mac. That's all I got there.

> they charged us around $5000 for Discovery time and
> gave us two sheets of paper with graphs on either. One of the graphs
> shows the relationship between database tables in a flow chart manner

Does this relationship reflect your current system or does it look
improved?

> and the other shows an interface tree starting at "Dashboard" with
> branches showing the different sections and the general actions you
> can do in those sections.

Does this interface design look like tour current system or does it
look improved?

> Now does any of this crap sound useful at
> all?

Dunno I don't know your current system compared to theirs. Though the
graphs are skimpy they may be all that is necessary to convey the
message - but I would think there should be some sort of narrative to
explain what the changes will do to improve your currrent system, what
the hardware load is projected to be (including licensing as .NET can
be a tad more license encumbered than PHP), time frame for
development, data conversion (is it included), etc.

> Or did we just get robbed? We're still withholding half of the
> $5k and are willing to hold in ransom until we get our money's worth.
>
> Mind you we had no previous specification whatsoever other than user
> tutorials we gave to new hires.

Well that says it was pretty open-ended on their part to figure out
what you might want though the user tutorials might help but they
probably didn't discuss the intent of the system or anything else
except how to input data and get reports, so maybe not.

Re: Question regarding program discovery

I would say that it all really depends on how your current systems are
setup. Think of it this way, your current intranet, what does it run
on? If it runs on linux servers with PHP, then moving to .NET would be
an expensive operation on itself. Sure you can run mono and whatnot on
a linux server but to get the most out a .NET setup you really need to
be running windows.

Also, do you intend to do this job inhouse or are you going to hire a
third-party to write the code for you? If the developers are in-house,
what are their capabilities? Training staff to handle new types of
servers, to write code in a language they do not know, is also
expensive.

I am not going to go into the benefits of Windows + .NET vs Linux +
PHP. If setup properly, they are both good choices. My advice would be
to stick with the systems you already have and if needed, upgrade the
current system. Moving to a new system is always a big and expensive
project, not to mention time consuming. It is cheaper, easier, and
quicker to work with what you have. This is an important point,
because as it is, there is no technical merit to made in a switch away
from PHP (if indeed you guys are currently running it).

Re: Question regarding program discovery

On 31 Jan, 21:24, egask...@gmail.com wrote:
> So I'm trying to figure out something...we need our company's internal
> PHP based intranet site redone as it runs horribly. We recently hired
> a company to come in and take a look at the code and give us some sort
> of specification for what we have and what needs to be done to rewrite
> the code in .NET they charged us around $5000 for Discovery time and
> gave us two sheets of paper with graphs on either. One of the graphs
> shows the relationship between database tables in a flow chart manner
> and the other shows an interface tree starting at "Dashboard" with
> branches showing the different sections and the general actions you
> can do in those sections. Now does any of this crap sound useful at
> all? Or did we just get robbed? We're still withholding half of the
> $5k and are willing to hold in ransom until we get our money's worth.
>
> Mind you we had no previous specification whatsoever other than user
> tutorials we gave to new hires.

There's not nearly enough info here to answer that - and if you want
to go down that road you should get professional legal advice - but I
strongly suspect that you've messed up in your choice of whom to
approach rather than a failure on their part to deliver what you were
expecting. Did you actually ask them to demonstrate expertise in PHP
consultancy prior to contract?

C.

Re: Question regarding program discovery

You said " ... it runs horribly ... ." And they said "Gee, I don't
know what it does so, but my solution is better!"

Which actually may be true, since these guys presumably know their
favorite toy reasonably well. But it's irrelevant, since any platform
- certainly including that of PHP - can usually perform OK, provided
its developers know what they're doing.

But you have a contract, and what that contract says determines the
the validity of their deliverable. It's my experience - 20+ years
gov't contracting - that a dispute usually involves deficiencies on
both sides. You gotta say clearly what you want.

Good luck. Keep us current.

AS