Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Hi.

I just re-installed a Windows XP Pro SP2 station from scratch after a
virus infection.
I installed Apache 2.2.8, Activeperl 5.8.8.822 and mod_perl 2.0.3 from
uwinnipeg.
I cannot start Apache as a Service, crashes with the following message
in Windows log (it's in German, but you get the drift) :

Fehlgeschlagene Anwendung httpd.exe, Version 2.2.8.0, fehlgeschlagenes
Modul msvcrt.dll, Version 7.0.2600.2180, Fehleradresse 0x00036fa3.

I can however start the same Apache in a command window, using "httpd -e
debug -w", it starts fine and answers requests.

Any ideas/suggestions ?

Is my combination of versions above wrong ?

Thanks

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

André Warnier wrote:
>
> I installed Apache 2.2.8, Activeperl 5.8.8.822 and mod_perl 2.0.3 from
> uwinnipeg.

Rumor has it the prior Perl 5.8.8 from ActiveState was golden, and this 822
build introduces issues. Would you give a quick try to their immediately
previous 5.8.8. release and let us know?

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Andre,

I've recently set up a test based very closely on your platform:
AP2.2.8
AP5.8.8 Build 822
MP2.0.3

The only diff is I got the AP2.2.8 binaries from ApacheLounge. It seems
to be quite stable so far, including service startups, Apache restarts etc.

André Warnier wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I just re-installed a Windows XP Pro SP2 station from scratch after a
> virus infection.
> I installed Apache 2.2.8, Activeperl 5.8.8.822 and mod_perl 2.0.3 from
> uwinnipeg.
> I cannot start Apache as a Service, crashes with the following message
> in Windows log (it's in German, but you get the drift) :
>
> Fehlgeschlagene Anwendung httpd.exe, Version 2.2.8.0, fehlgeschlagenes
> Modul msvcrt.dll, Version 7.0.2600.2180, Fehleradresse 0x00036fa3.
>
> I can however start the same Apache in a command window, using "httpd
> -e debug -w", it starts fine and answers requests.
>
> Any ideas/suggestions ?
>
> Is my combination of versions above wrong ?
>
> Thanks

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Foo JH wrote:
> Andre,
>
> I've recently set up a test based very closely on your platform:
> AP2.2.8
> AP5.8.8 Build 822
> MP2.0.3

You mention a VC 2005 build of httpd, which build of MP? 2005?

Not sure which uwinnipeg is built against, msvcrt or msvcr80.

But my recent observation is that if you use AS Perl, which is built
against msvcrt, it's likely best to use modperl built against msvcrt
as well. I'm doubting httpd's clib has a whole lot to do with it.

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:

> Foo JH wrote:
>> Andre,
>>
>> I've recently set up a test based very closely on your platform:
>> AP2.2.8
>> AP5.8.8 Build 822
>> MP2.0.3
>
> You mention a VC 2005 build of httpd, which build of MP? 2005?
>
> Not sure which uwinnipeg is built against, msvcrt or msvcr80.

I use VC++ 6 to build the mod_perl ppm packages in the
UWinnipeg repository, which is the same as ActivePerl.

> But my recent observation is that if you use AS Perl, which is built
> against msvcrt, it's likely best to use modperl built against msvcrt
> as well. I'm doubting httpd's clib has a whole lot to do with it.

I've also seen crashes of Apache/2.2.8 with mod_perl
when Apache is started as a service, whereas it's fine
if started from the command line. I'll try the
suggestion in
http://marc.info/?l=apache-modperl&m=120234507226177&w=2
to see if it's the version of ActivePerl that's the problem.
However, I also noticed one thing - the mod_perl ppm
package was compiled against an earlier ActivePerl,
for binary compatibility with all ActivePerl versions
(in the 8xx series). If I use mod_perl compiled with
ActivePerl 822 against the 2.2.8 Apache sources, then
using it as a service is OK (at least, most of the time;
I still get very occasional crashes).

--
best regards,
Randy

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Randy Kobes wrote:
>
> I've also seen crashes of Apache/2.2.8 with mod_perl
> when Apache is started as a service, whereas it's fine
> if started from the command line. I'll try the
> suggestion in
> http://marc.info/?l=apache-modperl&m=120234507226177&w=2
> to see if it's the version of ActivePerl that's the problem.
> However, I also noticed one thing - the mod_perl ppm
> package was compiled against an earlier ActivePerl,
> for binary compatibility with all ActivePerl versions
> (in the 8xx series). If I use mod_perl compiled with
> ActivePerl 822 against the 2.2.8 Apache sources, then
> using it as a service is OK (at least, most of the time;
> I still get very occasional crashes).

We might see what compiling the ppm with .pdb files (not sure if you
do that already) - simply /Zi args to CL.exe and /debug /opt:ref to
the linker (rather than /release). Of course you can unpack the httpd
symbols from the zip file in the dist/httpd/binaries/win32/symbols.zip,
and that leaves only some activestate code 'undebuggable'.

Let's see what that buys us in terms of a dr watson stack unwind during
the crashes you still see?

It sounds like the lofty goal of binary compatibility between 5.8.8
builds wasn't quite realized, eh?

Bill

RE: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Randy Kobes wrote:
> We might see what compiling the ppm with .pdb files (not sure if you
> do that already) - simply /Zi args to CL.exe and /debug /opt:ref to
> the linker (rather than /release). Of course you can unpack the httpd
> symbols from the zip file in the dist/httpd/binaries/win32/symbols.zip,
> and that leaves only some activestate code 'undebuggable'.

Why is that? You can download both sources and debugging symbols for
each ActivePerl release. E.g. for 5.8.8.822:

http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePerl/src/5.8/AP822_so urce.zip

http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePerl/Windows/5.8/Acti vePerl-5.8.8.822-MSWin32-x86-280952-symbols.zip

The symbols.zip file should be unpacked in the C:\Perl directory, or
wherever you installed ActivePerl as it contains .pdb file for both the
bin and the lib subtree. All symbols should then automatically fall
into the correct places.

Cheers,
-Jan

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

I know. ApacheLounge uses a different (newer) compiler, and the
implications can be quite risky. I've started on this path since the
earlier 2.2.x when modperl on the ASF binaries has been unreliable, and
support on the mailing list confirmed my experience more than resolved it.

Why don't you give it a try and see if you're having it better?

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Foo JH wrote:
>> Andre,
>>
>> I've recently set up a test based very closely on your platform:
>> AP2.2.8
>> AP5.8.8 Build 822
>> MP2.0.3
>
> You mention a VC 2005 build of httpd, which build of MP? 2005?
>
> Not sure which uwinnipeg is built against, msvcrt or msvcr80.
>
> But my recent observation is that if you use AS Perl, which is built
> against msvcrt, it's likely best to use modperl built against msvcrt
> as well. I'm doubting httpd's clib has a whole lot to do with it.

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Jan Dubois wrote:
> http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePerl/Windows/5.8/Acti vePerl-5.8.8.822-MSWin32-x86-280952-symbols.zip
>
> The symbols.zip file should be unpacked in the C:\Perl directory, or
> wherever you installed ActivePerl as it contains .pdb file for both the
> bin and the lib subtree. All symbols should then automatically fall
> into the correct places.

Excellent, thanks Jan!!!

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Hi guys,
thank you very much for all the interest in the issue, but
could one of you summarise and tell me what I should do ? Should I
- go back to ActivePerl 8.8.820 (instead of 8.8.22 currently) ?
- do something else (like what Jan Dubois said below ? (or is that just
for the people creating the binary mod_perl package ?)
- use another combination altogether ?
(I cannot compile under Windows)

As per below, my immediate problem is solved, but it would be nice to
have the "clean" solution for future reference.

Thanks,
André

P.S.
In the meantime, under Windows XP SP 2 German, I did try the de-install
of ActivePerl 8.2.822, re-install of ActivePerl 8.2.820, and re-install
mod_perl using the "mpinstall" script, and everything works fine,
including starting Apache (2.2.8) as a service The error with
msvcrt.dll does not appear anymore. I tried a dozen Apache service
startup cycles and got no error.

The same procedure, same Perl 8.8.820 but with Apache 2.2.6 works fine
too on another Windows XP SP2, Spanish workstation, which also had some
problems with AP 8.8.822.




William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Jan Dubois wrote:
>>
>> http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePerl/Windows/5.8/Acti vePerl-5.8.8.822-MSWin32-x86-280952-symbols.zip
>>
>>
>> The symbols.zip file should be unpacked in the C:\Perl directory, or
>> wherever you installed ActivePerl as it contains .pdb file for both the
>> bin and the lib subtree. All symbols should then automatically fall
>> into the correct places.
>
> Excellent, thanks Jan!!!
>

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008, Foo JH wrote:

> William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>> Foo JH wrote:
>>> Andre,
>>>
>>> I've recently set up a test based very closely on your platform:
>>> AP2.2.8
>>> AP5.8.8 Build 822
>>> MP2.0.3
>>
>> You mention a VC 2005 build of httpd, which build of MP? 2005?
>>
>> Not sure which uwinnipeg is built against, msvcrt or msvcr80.
>>
>> But my recent observation is that if you use AS Perl, which is built
>> against msvcrt, it's likely best to use modperl built against msvcrt
>> as well. I'm doubting httpd's clib has a whole lot to do with it.
>
> I know. ApacheLounge uses a different (newer) compiler, and the implications
> can be quite risky. I've started on this path since the earlier 2.2.x when
> modperl on the ASF binaries has been unreliable, and support on the mailing
> list confirmed my experience more than resolved it.
>
> Why don't you give it a try and see if you're having it better?

I think characterizing the ASF binaries as unreliable with
mod_perl is misleading - there were some recent problems
with restarts, etc. on Win32 that have been looked into
and addressed for the 2.2.8 release.

Concerning the recommendation to try the ApacheLounge
binaries, I'd offer two cautionary notes:

- As you say, the ApacheLounge binaries use a different
compiler version which may in itself introduce some
problems.

- As well, the latest ApacheLounge binary distribution
contains some changes:
http://www.apachelounge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9752
from the official ASF 2.2.8 sources, which isn't
apparent from the title "Apache 2.2.8 available" on
http://www.apachelounge.com/

I think it's fair to say the mod_perl developers will only
provide support for official ASF versions of Apache.

--
best regards,
Randy Kobes

Re: Apache 2.2.6, mod_perl 2.0.3 msvcrt.dll start problem

Randy,
>
> I think characterizing the ASF binaries as unreliable with
> mod_perl is misleading - there were some recent problems
> with restarts, etc. on Win32 that have been looked into
> and addressed for the 2.2.8 release.
The intent of my earlier response was not to undermine the quality of
the ASF builds. I have been relying on the ASF binaries since 1.3 (even
though it was not recommended for Windows). And it's only in the recent
months that I have come to depend on another source until some of my key
needs (on the binaries) are resolved. So please take it as just a layman
sharing his experience and resolution on the problems.

Moving forward, I do see that there's some conversation about
recompiling modperl based on the newer releases of ActivePerl. That's a
very encouraging move.

>
> - As you say, the ApacheLounge binaries use a different
> compiler version which may in itself introduce some
> problems.
Agreed. To date I still don't know what mess I've gotten myself into by
using this hybrid stack. It's still looking good and I'm crossing my
fingers. Maybe it's finally my lucky year...

>
> - As well, the latest ApacheLounge binary distribution contains some
> changes:
> http://www.apachelounge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9752
> from the official ASF 2.2.8 sources, which isn't
> apparent from the title "Apache 2.2.8 available" on
> http://www.apachelounge.com/
Noted.
>
> I think it's fair to say the mod_perl developers will only
> provide support for official ASF versions of Apache.
>
Since mod_perl is an ASF project, I guess it can't be helped. Personally
I do applaud the 2nd take on the Win32 binaries that AL took. Having
said that, at the end of the day everyone lives and dies with the ASF
development.