Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
A9BDFE.13582730032008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had
to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just
my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>

I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.

I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article
,
dorayme wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

I gather NSW legislation only went through in late October. I can't see
any indication at Apple support of a Daylight Saving update for Leopard
(nor for Tiger or Panther past March 2007).

At least some mobile phones also didn't notice the problem, as reported
in the news this morning.

I am very glad I live in a state that does not use Daylight Saving. Less
complicated.

--
http://www.ericlindsay.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

dorayme wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

Which version of Mac OS X are you running?

According to my 10.5.2 system, the current time zone in Sydney is
UTC+11, which agrees with your description of what the time should be.

If you are running 10.4.10 or earlier, and the rule changed from last
year, then your version of Mac OS X has out of date daylight saving
rules.

Apple released updated rules in 10.4.11 and 10.5.

We had a similar problem in New Zealand back in September, when the
rules changed here, and we have a problem right now for anyone still
running 10.4.10 or earlier, as the end of daylight saving moved ahead by
three weeks (to April 6th).

Since 10.4.11 and 10.5 weren't out in time for our local daylight saving
transition in September, a friend of mine wrote a patch for the daylight
saving rules for New Zealand to fix the problem for people running
10.3.9 and 10.4.9/10.

The whole story is here:

http://welmac.org.nz/nzdst2007.php

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Daylight saving in NSW

In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
(set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
machine at fault (not me, of course.)

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell wrote:

>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
> hour
>> today.
>
> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
>>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
>> hour
>>> today.
>> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
>> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
>> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
>> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
>> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
>> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>>
>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
> has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
> the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>

I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me when
I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until almost
10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just adjust
the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
UnHallmark Card: I must admit, you brought Religion into my life. I
never believed in Hell until I met you.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
> A9BDFE.13582730032008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au:
>
>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
> hour
>> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
>> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had
> to
>> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just
> my
>> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>>
>
> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
Couldn't agree more. If you want to trade with an adjoining time zone,
get up an hour earlier [1]. You don't have to bother the cows and the
school children at all, let the rest of us stay in tune with the sun.
It's crazy that we're totally controlled by little mechanical devices
strapped to our wrists.

[1] I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!

--
Phil Kempster
http://kempster.info

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

>>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state
>> which has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it,
>> too. I think the point is that if they want to adjust work and
>> school start times, etc., go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>>
>
> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

That's okay by me. My objection is to _changing_ the clock during the year
(twice!) not to what time you want the sun to rise or set.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
> > I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> > to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> > isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> > are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> > beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> > clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
> >
> > I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
> has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
> the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.

Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
the starting time of everything you do makes any difference whatsoever?
It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.

I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
really makes me feel that summer is on its way.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
without sticking the "me@" in front, but the link seems to work.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

>> > I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state
>> which has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it,
>> too. I think the point is that if they want to adjust work and
>> school start times, etc., go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>
> Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
> the starting time of everything you do makes any difference
> whatsoever?

Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and clock-type
mechanisms such as computer time.

> It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.

Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but why
make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?

> I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
> really makes me feel that summer is on its way.

Move to Tortuga; it's summer there all the time.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> > Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
> > the starting time of everything you do makes any difference
> > whatsoever?
>
> Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and clock-type
> mechanisms such as computer time.

My computer sets the change automatically.


> > It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.
>
> Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but why
> make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?

Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock, than to
change every time table and every schedule. I'm sure people would find
that much more impractical and would miss regular meetings, planes,
trains and busses before they finally got used to the new schadules. But
hey, I didn't invent DST, so don't ask me why it was done this way and
not another way.

> > I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
> > really makes me feel that summer is on its way.
>
> Move to Tortuga; it's summer there all the time.

I didn't say I want it to be summer all the time.



--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>
> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
> without sticking the "me@" in front, but the link seems to work.

Could it be that it's not an e-mail address.


--

//Aho

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:
> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>>
>>> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
>>> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
>>> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
>>> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
>>> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
>>> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>>>
>>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
>> has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
>> the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
>> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>
> Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
> the starting time of everything you do makes any difference whatsoever?
> It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.
>
> I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
> really makes me feel that summer is on its way.

I hate the thought of change the clock twice a year, if people wants one
more hour of daylight in the evening, then just see to that the
state/country switches timezone one step to the right, for example most
of Europe would just change from CET to EET and the problem is solved
and no need to switch the clock, whats the point to change the time for
a couple of months when the standard time is used, DST is used the
majority of the year.


--

//Aho

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
> A9BDFE.13582730032008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au:
>
> > In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> > week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
> hour
> > today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> > (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had
> to
> > manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just
> my
> > machine at fault (not me, of course.)
> >
>
> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

Until recently the state of Indiana (US) allowed counties to set their
own rule regarding DST. Comparing actual energy usage before and after
the state legislature forced everyone to DST and allowing for yearly
temperature variations, using neighboring counties as controls, showed
an increase in energy usage. See
nergy> for more details.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

dorayme wrote:
> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>
Why hasn't Jukka joined the thread, to scream that this belongs in
comp.systems.clocks? (Hmm, he didn't even complain that the Easter egg
thread belonged in rec.food.chocolate.)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

J.O. Aho wrote:

> I hate the thought of change the clock twice a year, if people wants one
> more hour of daylight in the evening, then just see to that the
> state/country switches timezone one step to the right, for example most
> of Europe would just change from CET to EET and the problem is solved
> and no need to switch the clock, whats the point to change the time for
> a couple of months when the standard time is used, DST is used the
> majority of the year.

DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening. It's
about having one more hour of daylight during the period that people are
active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the morning. That is why
it makes sense to change that by changing the clock (or your habits).

In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST (or
using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one more hour
of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving to work and
are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more important than
having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.

That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would have changed
time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different habits and work
from eight to four or from seven to three rather than from nine to five.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article <1iem555.1sefj0rj6ho9hN%nomail@please.invalid>,
nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock, than to
> change every time table and every schedule. I'm sure people would find
> that much more impractical and would miss regular meetings, planes,
> trains and busses before they finally got used to the new schadules. But
> hey, I didn't invent DST, so don't ask me why it was done this way and
> not another way.

Years ago, the Canadian railways refused to change their schedules to
accommodate DST, so if you were taking the train you had to figure it
all out an hour earlier (and this was in the days when their were two
railways and you actually _could_ take a train to most places in
Canada). It caused all sorts of problems; you'd walk into a railway
station and time seemed to move backwards. Nowadays they (the railways)
change with the Americans like everyone else except in that little town
in Saskatchewan where the mayor still pokes a stick into a cow patty at
noon every day to measure the angle of the sun.
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article <13uue50sovdbeef@corp.supernews.com>,
Phil Kempster wrote:

> Couldn't agree more. If you want to trade with an adjoining time zone,
> get up an hour earlier [1]. You don't have to bother the cows and the
> school children at all, let the rest of us stay in tune with the sun.
> It's crazy that we're totally controlled by little mechanical devices
> strapped to our wrists.
>
> [1] I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!

Venezuela?
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:19:11 +0200, Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

> J.O. Aho wrote:
>
>> I hate the thought of change the clock twice a year, if people wants
>> one more hour of daylight in the evening, then just see to that the
>> state/country switches timezone one step to the right, for example most
>> of Europe would just change from CET to EET and the problem is solved
>> and no need to switch the clock, whats the point to change the time for
>> a couple of months when the standard time is used, DST is used the
>> majority of the year.
>
> DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening. It's
> about having one more hour of daylight during the period that people are
> active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the morning. That is why
> it makes sense to change that by changing the clock (or your habits).
>
> In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST (or
> using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one more hour
> of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving to work and
> are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more important than
> having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.
>
> That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
> because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
> from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would have changed
> time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different habits and work
> from eight to four or from seven to three rather than from nine to five.

This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx. 24
hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article
,
dorayme wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

I am running 10.3.9. In the "Date and Time" preference pane there is an
option to set the time automatically for America, Europe and Asia and
then to choose your "time zone" within those broad areas.

The US changed the date of DST for this year and mine went thru
automatically with only this setting in the Preferences.

If it is not working for you, try trashing the preference file and
re-setting for your zone.

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing
good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good
people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:
> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have
> approx. 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to
> count it.

You have completely missed the point. It is not about having more daylight.
It is about having more daylight hours when people can take advantage of
them. Having more daylight time before they wake up or before they go to
work is no help to the vast majority of people. Having more daylight time
AFTER work is extremely helpful.

Yes, in theory everyone could go to work an hour earlier and return an hour
earlier without changing the clocks, but the reality is that this will never
be viable for anyone that is not self-employed and/or makes use of services
provided by other people who also work on a schedule.

As for just moving the clock and leaving it that way that is not done (at
least in the US) because people do not want their children going to school
in the morning while it is still dark. As others have stated the extra hour
of light in the evening loses its advantage once it moves within the time
people are working (those that work indoors anyway) so to leave it in DST
all year would give us six months of the disadvantages without any of the
advantages.

Frankly people who feel this is disruptive have pretty small things to
complain about. Moving the dates on which the clocks are to be changed was
a PITA for a lot of electronic/computerized systems, but the actual time
change is no big deal at all.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Baho Utot wrote:

> All days have approx. 24
> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.

Can you cite a reference for that?
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:43:06 +0000, Rick Brandt wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
>> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
>> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx.
>> 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> You have completely missed the point. It is not about having more
> daylight. It is about having more daylight hours when people can take
> advantage of them. Having more daylight time before they wake up or
> before they go to work is no help to the vast majority of people.
> Having more daylight time AFTER work is extremely helpful.
>
> Yes, in theory everyone could go to work an hour earlier and return an
> hour earlier without changing the clocks, but the reality is that this
> will never be viable for anyone that is not self-employed and/or makes
> use of services provided by other people who also work on a schedule.
>
> As for just moving the clock and leaving it that way that is not done
> (at least in the US) because people do not want their children going to
> school in the morning while it is still dark. As others have stated the
> extra hour of light in the evening loses its advantage once it moves
> within the time people are working (those that work indoors anyway) so
> to leave it in DST all year would give us six months of the
> disadvantages without any of the advantages.
>
> Frankly people who feel this is disruptive have pretty small things to
> complain about. Moving the dates on which the clocks are to be changed
> was a PITA for a lot of electronic/computerized systems, but the actual
> time change is no big deal at all.

Only if your life revolves around going to work.


--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:34:20 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article ,
> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> All days have approx. 24
>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> Can you cite a reference for that?

Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)



--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> > DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening. It's
> > about having one more hour of daylight during the period that people are
> > active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the morning. That is why
> > it makes sense to change that by changing the clock (or your habits).
> >
> > In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST (or
> > using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one more hour
> > of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving to work and
> > are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more important than
> > having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.
> >
> > That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
> > because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
> > from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would have changed
> > time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different habits and work
> > from eight to four or from seven to three rather than from nine to five.
>
> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx. 24
> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.

What part of "It's about having one more hour of daylight during the
period that people are active" didn't you understand?


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

Indeed -- I've been saying that for years.

In fact, my vote is that we scrap timezones altogether and everyone goes
by UTC all the time. I'm not suggesting that children in New Zealand ought
to be going to school at night time, and eating their lunches by the light
of the moon -- they'd keep their normal routines, it would just be the
notation used for times that would change.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 4:38.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Phil Kempster wrote:

> I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!

A lot of people forget that half hour time zones exist. In fact a good
proportion of the world's population live in them. (Hint: India is in
UTC+05:30.) 15/45-minute timezones exist too, though they're mostly used
by tiny island nations.

Before WWI, Liberia was at GMT-00:43:08, and until WWII, the Netherlands
were at GMT+00:19:32. But the last of those weird time zones was phased
out in the 1980s, so all time zones are now rounded off to 15 minutes.

Thanks to the weirdly shaped international date line, many small islands
are more than twelve hours ahead of or behind UTC -- parts of Kiribati are
at UTC+14:00, which just *has* to be some kind of publicity stunt! ("We're
so far ahead of the rest of the world here.")

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 4:42.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

I propose a campaign to eliminate the scourge of DST by 2016 (the 100th
anniversary of the first usage of DST).

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 5:01.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>
> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
> without sticking the "me@" in front, but the link seems to work.
>

I'm assuming that goes to your form mail handler? Neat!

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>
>>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>>
>> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
>> without sticking the "me@" in front, but the link seems to work.
>>
>
> I'm assuming that goes to your form mail handler? Neat!

We-ell, I goes to my form but Yahoo's form-handler. Kind of a long story
here, but basically it boils down to the "idiosyncrasy" that you can't use
normal form mail with Yahoo hosting unless the "from" address is one of
your own. I know it's hard to believe in this day and age, but so is
reality tv.

Which brings me to this request which I make in the most humble and
respectful manner. Would you mind sending me a short test missive using
the form in question? You need to include something in the "email address
or handle" box, but it doesn't have to be any email address; "Edward" would
be fine. I need to see if the thing works outside of my own domain.

Thanks much.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, "J.O. Aho" wrote:

>>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>>
>> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
>> without sticking the "me@" in front, but the link seems to work.
>
> Could it be that it's not an e-mail address.

Hmmmm, that might be a possibility...

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> > Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but
>> > changing the starting time of everything you do makes any
>> > difference whatsoever?
>>
>> Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and
>> clock-type mechanisms such as computer time.
>
> My computer sets the change automatically.

But it needs to know what time zone it's in, doesn't it? And that
involves human intervention.

>> > It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.
>>
>> Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but
>> why make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?
>
> Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock

I beg to differ. All that clock-changing is one royal PITA. It would
be _much_ simpler to have something like a "time-offset" twice per year
wherein everything occurs an hour earlier in spring and later in fall as
a matter of course.

> , than to
> change every time table and every schedule. I'm sure people would find
> that much more impractical and would miss regular meetings, planes,
> trains and busses before they finally got used to the new schadules.
> But hey, I didn't invent DST, so don't ask me why it was done this way
> and not another way.

I think it originally was a political ploy, -just a new way to curry
favor with the ignorant masses by convincing them they want what you
convince them they want.

>> > I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
>> > really makes me feel that summer is on its way.
>>
>> Move to Tortuga; it's summer there all the time.
>
> I didn't say I want it to be summer all the time.

True, but that would be all right by me. I hate cold weather. Man was
not put upon this earth to emulate the penguin.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:34:20 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>
>> In article ,
>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>>> All days have approx. 24
>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>
>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>
> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)

The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
revolves around it.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Toby A Inkster wrote:

> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I propose a campaign to eliminate the scourge of DST by 2016 (the 100th
> anniversary of the first usage of DST).

A nice sentiment which I'd fully support, but I think they're still working
on the heartbreak of psoriasis.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Warren Oates
writing in news:0245b37d$0$8869$c3e8da3
@news.astraweb.com:

> In article ,
> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> All days have approx. 24
>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> Can you cite a reference for that?

http://cseligman.com/text/sky/rotationvsday.htm

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Toby A Inkster @tobyinkster.co.uk> writing in news:5g05c5-ipv.ln1@ophelia.g5n.co.uk:

> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I propose a campaign to eliminate the scourge of DST by 2016 (the 100th
> anniversary of the first usage of DST).
>

I'm with you. Let's do it.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Toby A Inkster wrote:

> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> Indeed -- I've been saying that for years.
>
> In fact, my vote is that we scrap timezones altogether and everyone goes
> by UTC all the time. I'm not suggesting that children in New Zealand ought
> to be going to school at night time, and eating their lunches by the light
> of the moon -- they'd keep their normal routines, it would just be the
> notation used for times that would change.

Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think. If
you travel from the UK to the USA, and arrive in what previously was a
timezone at UTC-7, you'll have to tell your mind that 1am is time to
get up, and breakfast will only be served till 3am. Of course your
body will agree with you that 3am is way too early to be even thinking
of breakfast, but I'm not sure which would be confused more - your
body or you mind - when trying to adjust to a new time schedule.
You'd still have the jetlag, but now on top of it you have to keep
calculating the times.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:00:30 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:

[putolin]

>>>> All days have approx. 24
>>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>>
>>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>>
>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>
> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
> revolves around it.

What you are catholic?



--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:26:40 +0200, Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> > DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening.
>> > It's about having one more hour of daylight during the period that
>> > people are active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the
>> > morning. That is why it makes sense to change that by changing the
>> > clock (or your habits).
>> >
>> > In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST
>> > (or using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one
>> > more hour of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving
>> > to work and are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more
>> > important than having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.
>> >
>> > That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in
>> > summer, because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without*
>> > stealing it from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would
>> > have changed time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different
>> > habits and work from eight to four or from seven to three rather than
>> > from nine to five.
>>
>> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
>> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
>> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx.
>> 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> What part of "It's about having one more hour of daylight during the
> period that people are active" didn't you understand?

Nothing, You have exactly the same amount of "daylite" DST only
re-lables it.

You don't gain or get anything.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On the other hand, if you look in /usr/share/zoneinfo/Australia you will
find a new zoneinfo file for Eucla. Yes, after many years, Apple have
(like Linux and FreeBSD) added the Mid West Australian time zone to
their files. So the hundred or so people near the WA border can now be
45 minutes away from Perth time, and 45 minutes away from Adelaide time.

No GUI interface to it. Boo!

--
http://www.ericlindsay.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

>>>>> All days have approx. 24
>>>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>>>
>>>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>>>
>>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>
>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
>> revolves around it.
>
> What you are catholic?

No, but I get dizzy easily.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> >> Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but
> >> why make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?
> >
> > Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock
>
> I beg to differ. All that clock-changing is one royal PITA. It would
> be _much_ simpler to have something like a "time-offset" twice per year
> wherein everything occurs an hour earlier in spring and later in fall as
> a matter of course.

We agree that we disagree. Changing the clocks takes me five minutes,
and then I can forget that I even did it. Using a 'time offset' for half
a year means I constantly have to remember that we did, so that regular
meetings and other scheduled things are suddenly rescheduled. That would
indeed be a PITA for my computerized diary.

It would also cause lots of little misunderstandings and disagreements.
Let's say that we work in the same office, and we have a weekly meeting
at 10.00 AM each monday. Would that meeting change to 9.00 AM too? You
probably say that it does, but I may disagree. Why would the meeting
have to change? The fact that we now come into the office one hour
earlier has little or nothing to do with our meeting, so as far as I'm
concerned 10.00 AM means 10.00 AM. BTW, wouldn't it be silly if the Nine
O'Clock News was suddenly at eight? Just setting the clock one hour
earlier avoids all those problems.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> >> > DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening.
> >> > It's about having one more hour of daylight during the period that
> >> > people are active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the
> >> > morning. That is why it makes sense to change that by changing the
> >> > clock (or your habits).
> >> >
> >> > In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST
> >> > (or using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one
> >> > more hour of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving
> >> > to work and are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more
> >> > important than having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.
> >> >
> >> > That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in
> >> > summer, because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without*
> >> > stealing it from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would
> >> > have changed time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different
> >> > habits and work from eight to four or from seven to three rather than
> >> > from nine to five.
> >>
> >> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
> >> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
> >> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx.
> >> 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
> >
> > What part of "It's about having one more hour of daylight during the
> > period that people are active" didn't you understand?
>
> Nothing, You have exactly the same amount of "daylite" DST only
> re-lables it.
>
> You don't gain or get anything.

You did indeed not understand a word of it, so let me try once more.
I'll type it slowly:

It's not about gaining an hour of daylight each day. It's about gaining
an hour of daylight d u r i n g t h e t i m e t h a t y o u
a r e a w a k e.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Warren Oates wrote:
> In article <13uue50sovdbeef@corp.supernews.com>,
> Phil Kempster wrote:
>
>> Couldn't agree more. If you want to trade with an adjoining time zone,
>> get up an hour earlier [1]. You don't have to bother the cows and the
>> school children at all, let the rest of us stay in tune with the sun.
>> It's crazy that we're totally controlled by little mechanical devices
>> strapped to our wrists.
>>
>> [1] I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!
>
> Venezuela?

No, South Australia - Chavez copied us ;-)

And we don't change over until next weekend - screwing up all of the
auto-programmed changes.
--
Phil Kempster
http://kempster.info

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Els wrote:

> Toby A Inkster wrote:
>
> > Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> >
> >> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
> >
> > Indeed -- I've been saying that for years.
> >
> > In fact, my vote is that we scrap timezones altogether and everyone goes
> > by UTC all the time. I'm not suggesting that children in New Zealand ought
> > to be going to school at night time, and eating their lunches by the light
> > of the moon -- they'd keep their normal routines, it would just be the
> > notation used for times that would change.
>
> Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think.

Absolutely not. If you have an eight hour flight from NYC, you would
arrive 8 hours by all the clocks after you departed. That is the
reason that the USAF keeps UMT, calling it Zulu.

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing
good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good
people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Neredbojias wrote:

> On 30 Mar 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:34:20 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> >
> >> In article ,
> >> Baho Utot wrote:
> >>
> >>> All days have approx. 24
> >>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
> >>
> >> Can you cite a reference for that?
> >
> > Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>
> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
> revolves around it.

Gawd, another Bush republican.

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing
good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good
people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Neredbojias wrote:

> On 30 Mar 2008, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:
>
> > Neredbojias wrote:
> >
> >> > Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but
> >> > changing the starting time of everything you do makes any
> >> > difference whatsoever?
> >>
> >> Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and
> >> clock-type mechanisms such as computer time.
> >
> > My computer sets the change automatically.
>
> But it needs to know what time zone it's in, doesn't it? And that
> involves human intervention.

Keep in mind that computers are really quite stupid.

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing
good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good
people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:00:37 +0200, Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> >> > DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening.
>> >> > It's about having one more hour of daylight during the period that
>> >> > people are active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the
>> >> > morning. That is why it makes sense to change that by changing the
>> >> > clock (or your habits).
>> >> >
>> >> > In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using
>> >> > DST (or using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean
>> >> > one more hour of darkness in the morning. That is when people are
>> >> > drving to work and are at work, so having daylight in the morning
>> >> > is more important than having an extra hour of daylight in the
>> >> > evening.
>> >> >
>> >> > That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in
>> >> > summer, because it gives you an extra hour in the evening
>> >> > *without* stealing it from the morning. If it worked all year
>> >> > round, we would have changed time zone ages ago. Or easier, we
>> >> > would have different habits and work from eight to four or from
>> >> > seven to three rather than from nine to five.
>> >>
>> >> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an
>> >> extra hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace
>> >> so the reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days
>> >> have approx. 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want
>> >> to count it.
>> >
>> > What part of "It's about having one more hour of daylight during the
>> > period that people are active" didn't you understand?
>>
>> Nothing, You have exactly the same amount of "daylite" DST only
>> re-lables it.
>>
>> You don't gain or get anything.
>
> You did indeed not understand a word of it, so let me try once more.
> I'll type it slowly:
>
> It's not about gaining an hour of daylight each day. It's about gaining
> an hour of daylight d u r i n g t h e t i m e t h a t y o u a
> r e a w a k e.

Let me re-type this again....How do you know when I sleep and when I am
awake?



--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Neredbojias wrote:

> ...if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.

So let's get really clear on this Boji, you are saying that you would
not mind if work and school start and finish times were adjusted and
things like that. So if Adrienne's cow, Bessy was trained to give milk
earlier or later twice a year, you would not mind. And if we worked out
how to adjust the spinning of the earth, you would not mind and so on.

You would only pipe up an objection if anyone fiddled with the clock. My
dear dear Boji, why o why does it not occur to you and your fellow DLS
haters that the clock is adjusted because it is so much easier than
adjusting these other things. It is the magic short cut. I suspect you
simply don't like magic.

I like magic and I like DLS.


(btw. You try swimming in the bloody dark in the sea with those sharks
about)

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Adrienne Boswell wrote:

>
> http://cseligman.com/text/sky/rotationvsday.htm

Excellent. Now I understand.
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

>> > Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock
>>
>> I beg to differ. All that clock-changing is one royal PITA. It would
>> be _much_ simpler to have something like a "time-offset" twice per year
>> wherein everything occurs an hour earlier in spring and later in fall as
>> a matter of course.
>
> We agree that we disagree. Changing the clocks takes me five minutes,
> and then I can forget that I even did it. Using a 'time offset' for half
> a year means I constantly have to remember that we did, so that regular
> meetings and other scheduled things are suddenly rescheduled. That would
> indeed be a PITA for my computerized diary.

Okay. I understand your point of view, and I do not say that "global hour
shifting" would be devoid of problems.

> It would also cause lots of little misunderstandings and disagreements.
> Let's say that we work in the same office, and we have a weekly meeting
> at 10.00 AM each monday. Would that meeting change to 9.00 AM too? You
> probably say that it does, but I may disagree. Why would the meeting
> have to change? The fact that we now come into the office one hour
> earlier has little or nothing to do with our meeting, so as far as I'm
> concerned 10.00 AM means 10.00 AM. BTW, wouldn't it be silly if the Nine
> O'Clock News was suddenly at eight? Just setting the clock one hour
> earlier avoids all those problems.

Yes, I'd say that _everything_ should change so the meeting should be at
9:00 am - which would be the same amount of time after work-start. I don't
see this as being a particularly egregious problem, but I don't expect
universal agreement on it (-or anything.)

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ockham's Razor wrote:

>> > My computer sets the change automatically.
>>
>> But it needs to know what time zone it's in, doesn't it? And that
>> involves human intervention.
>
> Keep in mind that computers are really quite stupid.

Actually, they are completely stupid. What can a computer do for itself (-
on its own)? I think you need self-awareness for any form of intelligence,
so that would be the first step in developing AI.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ockham's Razor wrote:

>> > Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>
>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
>> revolves around it.
>
> Gawd, another Bush republican.

Not hardly. I'm about as anti-Republican as it gets.

Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most people
like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article
,
Eric Lindsay wrote:

> as reported
> in the news this morning.

Morning Eric, thanks for this sentence as I now know it is a general
problem... I will be walking up to get the paper soon.

The few people I talked to yesterday knew nothing about it. You have to
be careful raising the subject as it is pretty controversial. I avoid
asking anyone even the most innocuous question that touches on it if
they are big and mean looking and especially if they are carrying - you
know, like an AK-47 or a blade like Crocodile Dundee, or a holstered
equaliser like Dirty Harry.

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, dorayme wrote:

> In article ,
> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> ...if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
>> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>
> So let's get really clear on this Boji, you are saying that you would
> not mind if work and school start and finish times were adjusted and
> things like that. So if Adrienne's cow, Bessy was trained to give milk
> earlier or later twice a year, you would not mind. And if we worked out
> how to adjust the spinning of the earth, you would not mind and so on.
>
> You would only pipe up an objection if anyone fiddled with the clock. My
> dear dear Boji, why o why does it not occur to you and your fellow DLS
> haters that the clock is adjusted because it is so much easier than
> adjusting these other things. It is the magic short cut. I suspect you
> simply don't like magic.
>
> I like magic and I like DLS.

I don't think adjusting the clock is easier at all. What would be wrong
with making a ruling that all scheduled times are an hour earlier between
such and such dates? You have to remember to change clocks, anyway (except
maybe on the 'puter), so...
>
> (btw. You try swimming in the bloody dark in the sea with those sharks
> about)

Yeah, I know. One time Blinky invited me to go skinny-dipping with him at
midnight, but I'm aware of that trick.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ockham's Razor wrote:

>> Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think.
>
> Absolutely not. If you have an eight hour flight from NYC, you would
> arrive 8 hours by all the clocks after you departed. That is the
> reason that the USAF keeps UMT, calling it Zulu.

Makes you wonder if there was ever a Zulu warrior named "Umt"...

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Hi Ockham's,

Sunday March 30 2008, Ockham's Razor writes to Neredbojias:

> XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps
> From: Mencken@pdx.net
> Keep in mind that computers are really quite stupid.

Yep, operators too.

> -+- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
> + Origin: Calgary Organization CDN Fidonet-Internet Gateway
> (1:342/77.10)

--
K Klement

Enhance your marketing at http://www.gypsy-designs.com
mailto:info@gypsy-designs.com
Gypsy Designs Fax: (403) 242-3221

.... Turn your 486 into a GameBoy? At c:\ type WIN

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 2008-03-30, Neredbojias wrote:
> On 30 Mar 2008, dorayme wrote:
>
>> In article ,
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>
>>> ...if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
>>> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>>
>> So let's get really clear on this Boji, you are saying that you would
>> not mind if work and school start and finish times were adjusted and
>> things like that. So if Adrienne's cow, Bessy was trained to give milk
>> earlier or later twice a year, you would not mind. And if we worked out
>> how to adjust the spinning of the earth, you would not mind and so on.
>>
>> You would only pipe up an objection if anyone fiddled with the clock. My
>> dear dear Boji, why o why does it not occur to you and your fellow DLS
>> haters that the clock is adjusted because it is so much easier than
>> adjusting these other things. It is the magic short cut. I suspect you
>> simply don't like magic.
>>
>> I like magic and I like DLS.
>
> I don't think adjusting the clock is easier at all. What would be wrong
> with making a ruling that all scheduled times are an hour earlier between
> such and such dates? You have to remember to change clocks, anyway (except
> maybe on the 'puter), so...

Why don't you just not adjust your own watch and apply a ruling to
yourself that one hour should be subtracted from all scheduled times?
That way everyone is happy.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Neredbojias wrote:

> On 30 Mar 2008, Ockham's Razor wrote:
>
> >> > Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
> >>
> >> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
> >> revolves around it.
> >
> > Gawd, another Bush republican.
>
> Not hardly. I'm about as anti-Republican as it gets.
>
> Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most people
> like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.

The only problem is that it is funded with debt. Thanks China!

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing
good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good
people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>
>>>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>>>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>>>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>>>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>>> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
>>> without sticking the "me@" in front, but the link seems to work.
>>>
>> I'm assuming that goes to your form mail handler? Neat!
>
> We-ell, I goes to my form but Yahoo's form-handler. Kind of a long story
> here, but basically it boils down to the "idiosyncrasy" that you can't use
> normal form mail with Yahoo hosting unless the "from" address is one of
> your own. I know it's hard to believe in this day and age, but so is
> reality tv.
>
> Which brings me to this request which I make in the most humble and
> respectful manner. Would you mind sending me a short test missive using
> the form in question? You need to include something in the "email address
> or handle" box, but it doesn't have to be any email address; "Edward" would
> be fine. I need to see if the thing works outside of my own domain.
>
> Thanks much.
>

Hmm. I tried right-clicking on your "From" field in SeaMonkey and
choosing "Compose mail to" option. I made a fabulous email and clicked
"Send." Got a lengthy error message (which I cannot begin to relate)
and canceled out of the whole process.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Fear has its use but cowardice has none. - Mohandas Gandhi

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 30 Mar 2008, Ockham's Razor wrote:
>
>>>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>>
>>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
>>> revolves around it.
>> Gawd, another Bush republican.
>
> Not hardly. I'm about as anti-Republican as it gets.
>
> Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most people
> like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.
>

Right. Lemme see now. Ok, Bob PAID the gov't $2,000 in taxes (or,
realistically, in my case, $50,000). Ok. They're giving Bob back $300.
For "free?" Sigh. Just like the people who have had $20,000
with-held and think they are paying no taxes because they are getting a
refund of $1,500. Uh. Huh? You hold them still and I will smack them
until they get it.

The beauty, however, of the American system is that the clueless are as
empowered, in many ways, as those of us who actually understand the
math. So! Instead of paying, say, the Swedish government, 65% of our
income in taxes, we only pay the US gov't 33% of our effort in taxes.

Wait! Hold on! But, if we elect Hillary, we could adopt the Swedish
system! We could pay the totally ineffectual US gov't 66% of what we
sweat to make for a mis-managed catastrophe in virtually every system
from health care (my wife is a Canadian, don't even try to take me
there) to retirement (excuse me, I was responsible, I planned, I
invested, I WORKED!, I am secure unless Hillary or Obama decides to take
what I have and give it to someone else who has no clue, which is what
they are proposing).

When Hillary and Barak talk about "wealth redistribution" ask them where
that notion comes from. Karl Marx.

If it comes to it? If one of them gets elected? I really would
consider moving off-shore. Sorry, I watched my mother-in-law die, in
part, because of the Canadian nationalized health-care system. This is
what Hillary and Barak want to take my money away to give to us. Screw
them and anyone else who thinks that America is about taking instead of
working.

Research the Fair Tax. Abolish the IRS.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. - Niels Bohr

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Ed Mullen wrote:

> When Hillary and Barak talk about "wealth redistribution" ask them where
> that notion comes from. Karl Marx.

The history of the idea has roots going back even further than Matthew
20: 1-15 not to mention Mark 10:31

"But many that are first shall be last, and the last first."

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Baho Utot
writing in news:pan.2008.03.30.20.32.01@invalid.org:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:00:30 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:
>
> [putolin]
>
>>>>> All days have approx. 24
>>>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>>>
>>>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>>>
>>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>
>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe
just
>> revolves around it.
>
> What you are catholic?
>
>
>

Hey, I'm Catholic - and by the way, it was a Catholic priest, Fr.
Georges Lemaitre, who first developed the Big Bang theory.


--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Baho Utot
> writing in news:pan.2008.03.30.20.32.01@invalid.org:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:00:30 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:
>>
>> [putolin]
>>
>>>>>> All days have approx. 24
>>>>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>>>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>>>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>>
>>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe
> just
>>> revolves around it.
>> What you are catholic?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hey, I'm Catholic - and by the way, it was a Catholic priest, Fr.
> Georges Lemaitre, who first developed the Big Bang theory.
>
>

I like to borrow from my sister who said, many years ago: "I'm a
/recovering/ Roman Catholic." The truth in that statement struck me in
so many ways that I use it now, today, to describe myself whenever some
need for religious description arises.

We were raised (schooled) in that venue in the 50s and 60s and no one
who wasn't cannot know what it was like.

Being the youngest of three siblings I had the good fortune of profiting
from all the mis-steps my parents made with my two sisters. So, I was
allowed, more than they, to think for myself, act out, make choices,
reject dogmaticism, and, generally, be wacky and a pain in the ass.

For some reason, and I'm still not sure why, the still love me.

On the other hand, those early lessons served me well. Despite the
illogic and contradictions, I grew up loving, without a prejudiced bone
in my body, and believing that good will triumph over evil.

Yeah, well, I may be silly but I have been successful. And I still hear
Mom's voice chiding: "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar!"

Although, vinegar seems to have gained a lot more favor lately. Just
remodeled the house with granite counter tops, etc. And they said I
should only use a vinegar-based cleaner. Hmm. Maybe the old lady had
something going for her after all?

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Don't bother me. I'm living happily ever after.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

>> Which brings me to this request which I make in the most humble and
>> respectful manner. Would you mind sending me a short test missive
>> using the form in question? You need to include something in the
>> "email address or handle" box, but it doesn't have to be any email
>> address; "Edward" would be fine. I need to see if the thing works
>> outside of my own domain.
>>
>> Thanks much.
>>
>
> Hmm. I tried right-clicking on your "From" field in SeaMonkey and
> choosing "Compose mail to" option. I made a fabulous email and
> clicked "Send." Got a lengthy error message (which I cannot begin to
> relate) and canceled out of the whole process.

Well thank you very much for trying it. Damn, that probably means the form
only works within the same domain. Yahoo really sucks when it comes to
form mail

Maybe I'll revert to and update my old form which _did_ work after a
fashion. Hell, it was no worse and some better than Yahoo's canned form
even if the latter functioned.

Thanks again.

Um, um, wait a minute... I just reread your message. Right-clicking on
the "from" field? -Oh, I see! No, that won't work. It's a url, a link;
you have to double click-it to get to a form. No actual email is involve
prior to the form; ergo, one's email address, whatever it may or may not
be, is prefectly safe from spamming. If you include an actual email
address on the form (which isn't required though some kind of handle is).
that email address is still safe because it's only submitted by the form
for reference - never used for actual sending. That (I think) is why Yahoo
does it that way.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Baho Utot
> writing in news:pan.2008.03.30.20.32.01@invalid.org:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:00:30 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:
>>
>> [putolin]
>>
>>>>>> All days have approx. 24
>>>>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>>>>
>>>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>>
>>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe
> just
>>> revolves around it.
>>
>> What you are catholic?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Hey, I'm Catholic - and by the way, it was a Catholic priest, Fr.
> Georges Lemaitre, who first developed the Big Bang theory.

Yeah but when you're a Catholic priest, you'll take any kind of a bang you
can get.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ockham's Razor wrote:

>> Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most
>> people like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.
>
> The only problem is that it is funded with debt. Thanks China!

I don't think that's the _only_ problem; the whole strategy is wrong. But
anyway, discussing politics has no logical conlusion, so I wish George and
all the rest of the US only the best, with or without delusions, and shall
soothe myself gently in the warming balm of my hedonistic fantasies.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:

>>>>> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)
>>>>
>>>> The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe
>>>> just revolves around it.
>>>
>>> Gawd, another Bush republican.
>>
>> Not hardly. I'm about as anti-Republican as it gets.
>>
>> Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most
>> people like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.
>>
>
> Right. Lemme see now. Ok, Bob PAID the gov't $2,000 in taxes (or,
> realistically, in my case, $50,000). Ok. They're giving Bob back
> $300.
> For "free?" Sigh.

Just a little irony there...

> Just like the people who have had $20,000
> with-held and think they are paying no taxes because they are getting
> a refund of $1,500. Uh. Huh? You hold them still and I will smack
> them until they get it.
>
> The beauty, however, of the American system is that the clueless are
> as empowered, in many ways, as those of us who actually understand the
> math. So! Instead of paying, say, the Swedish government, 65% of our
> income in taxes, we only pay the US gov't 33% of our effort in taxes.
>
> Wait! Hold on! But, if we elect Hillary, we could adopt the Swedish
> system! We could pay the totally ineffectual US gov't 66% of what we
> sweat to make for a mis-managed catastrophe in virtually every system
> from health care (my wife is a Canadian, don't even try to take me
> there) to retirement (excuse me, I was responsible, I planned, I
> invested, I WORKED!, I am secure unless Hillary or Obama decides to
> take what I have and give it to someone else who has no clue, which is
> what they are proposing).
>
> When Hillary and Barak talk about "wealth redistribution" ask them
> where that notion comes from. Karl Marx.
>
> If it comes to it? If one of them gets elected? I really would
> consider moving off-shore. Sorry, I watched my mother-in-law die, in
> part, because of the Canadian nationalized health-care system. This
> is what Hillary and Barak want to take my money away to give to us.
> Screw them and anyone else who thinks that America is about taking
> instead of working.
>
> Research the Fair Tax. Abolish the IRS.

Hehe, you don't have to tell me. I, myself personally, am involved in
something like that right now. Not going to go into it, especially here,
but it's true. Suffice to say that excessive socialization isn't the
answer as almost any govt social program is administered and operated by
people who just don't give a shit the way _you_ would for yourself.

The only thing I have to add is that there must be a solution somehow,
but I sure haven't seen it yet.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Ben C wrote:

> Why don't you just not adjust your own watch and apply a ruling to
> yourself that one hour should be subtracted from all scheduled times?
> That way everyone is happy.

Believe it or not, before I moved to a time-rational zone, that's exactly
what I did. However, the clocks which were maladjusted kept upsetting me.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Els wrote:

> Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think. If
> you travel from the UK to the USA, and arrive in what previously was a
> timezone at UTC-7, you'll have to tell your mind that 1am is time to get
> up, and breakfast will only be served till 3am.

Or you could just go to sleep when it got dark, and ask the hotel to give
you a wake-up call an hour before they stop serving breakfast and stop
worrying about numbers.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 16:51.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

dorayme wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April
> (a week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put
> back an hour today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a
> per region basis (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone
> has stuffed up. Had to manually put it forward again. It is
> possible, I suppose, it is just my machine at fault (not me, of
> course.)

I'm leaving my 'puter's reset clock as is (too lazy to reset it
manually) and some 'puter clocks in other countries seem to think NSW
has finished DL saving anywho, i.e - the Italian nntp server that I
post from seems to find my TZ as being valid.

It's only going to last a few more days and then I can forget about it
for another year (unless the powers that be decide to begin DLS at an
unusual time, too).

--
dee

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Toby A Inkster wrote:

> Els wrote:
>
>> Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think. If
>> you travel from the UK to the USA, and arrive in what previously was a
>> timezone at UTC-7, you'll have to tell your mind that 1am is time to get
>> up, and breakfast will only be served till 3am.
>
> Or you could just go to sleep when it got dark, and ask the hotel to give
> you a wake-up call an hour before they stop serving breakfast and stop
> worrying about numbers.

Is an idea, yes - for the brave. Most people are ruled by their
watches, they have preconditioned their brains to obey the numbers on
the clock :-)

As for going to sleep when it gets dark - that won't work most of the
time. (depending on time of year and distance to equator)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>>> Which brings me to this request which I make in the most humble and
>>> respectful manner. Would you mind sending me a short test missive
>>> using the form in question? You need to include something in the
>>> "email address or handle" box, but it doesn't have to be any email
>>> address; "Edward" would be fine. I need to see if the thing works
>>> outside of my own domain.
>>>
>>> Thanks much.
>>>
>> Hmm. I tried right-clicking on your "From" field in SeaMonkey and
>> choosing "Compose mail to" option. I made a fabulous email and
>> clicked "Send." Got a lengthy error message (which I cannot begin to
>> relate) and canceled out of the whole process.
>
> Well thank you very much for trying it. Damn, that probably means the form
> only works within the same domain. Yahoo really sucks when it comes to
> form mail

The page you have made don't be invoked, as Ed is using a proper mail client
and those your web page will never be called. You idea of having a form page
as a "mail address" is as bad as microsofts idea of including html to mail.


> It's a url, a link;
> you have to double click-it to get to a form.

That won't work, a form address isn't a link (maybe you are using a crappy
mail client), even if it would work, there aren't any me@http protocol.

If you had thought about things more than a millisecond, you had added your
form address in the footer of your message.


> whatever it may or may not be, is prefectly safe from spamming.

If spammers want to spam you they can use their spambots to use your form to
send you load of spam.


> If you include an actual email
> address on the form (which isn't required though some kind of handle is).
> that email address is still safe because it's only submitted by the form
> for reference - never used for actual sending. That (I think) is why Yahoo
> does it that way.

They just protect themselves from mail header injection and they don't want to
write a code that protects against header injection.


--

//Aho

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 31 Mar 2008, "J.O. Aho" wrote:

>>> Hmm. I tried right-clicking on your "From" field in SeaMonkey and
>>> choosing "Compose mail to" option. I made a fabulous email and
>>> clicked "Send." Got a lengthy error message (which I cannot begin
>>> to relate) and canceled out of the whole process.
>>
>> Well thank you very much for trying it. Damn, that probably means
>> the form only works within the same domain. Yahoo really sucks when
>> it comes to form mail
>
> The page you have made don't be invoked, as Ed is using a proper mail
> client and those your web page will never be called. You idea of
> having a form page as a "mail address" is as bad as microsofts idea of
> including html to mail.

Mmm, yes, I see what you're saying.

>> It's a url, a link;
>> you have to double click-it to get to a form.
>
> That won't work, a form address isn't a link (maybe you are using a
> crappy mail client), even if it would work, there aren't any me@http
> protocol.

X-News. The "me@" seems to be ignored.

> If you had thought about things more than a millisecond, you had added
> your form address in the footer of your message.

The idea is that it should be possible to have a form url as an
(ostensible) email address.

>> whatever it may or may not be, is prefectly safe from spamming.
>
> If spammers want to spam you they can use their spambots to use your
> form to send you load of spam.

Perhaps possible but unlikely. It's too inefficient for typical spam
mass-mailing.

>> If you include an actual email
>> address on the form (which isn't required though some kind of handle
>> is). that email address is still safe because it's only submitted by
>> the form for reference - never used for actual sending. That (I
>> think) is why Yahoo does it that way.
>
> They just protect themselves from mail header injection and they don't
> want to write a code that protects against header injection.

That I can believe.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 31 Mar 2008, Vladimir wrote:

> In article , Neredbojias
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state
>> which has no daylight savings time
>
> Hmmm. Perhaps you _are_ Joh!

I dunno 'bout that but in my younger days my Moh Joh was risin'.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:27:08 +0200, Els wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:49:23 +0200, Els wrote:
>>
>>> Toby A Inkster wrote:
>>>
>>>> Els wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think.
>>>>> If you travel from the UK to the USA, and arrive in what previously
>>>>> was a timezone at UTC-7, you'll have to tell your mind that 1am is
>>>>> time to get up, and breakfast will only be served till 3am.
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go to sleep when it got dark, and ask the hotel to
>>>> give you a wake-up call an hour before they stop serving breakfast
>>>> and stop worrying about numbers.
>>>
>>> Is an idea, yes - for the brave. Most people are ruled by their
>>> watches, they have preconditioned their brains to obey the numbers on
>>> the clock :-)
>>
>> That is what I can not figure out. What is So important that you have
>> a clock do your thinking for you?
>>
>> We in Philippines don't care what the clock says, we generally go and
>> come when we desire. If the party starts a 5:00PM and we show up at
>> 8:00PM it's OK. Most of us don't even have a watch.... we can't afford
>> one :)
>
> I bet that even in the Philippines, children have to be in school on
> time. Other than obligatory things like school, work, meetings, trains
> (okay, European trains) and flights, I agree - I don't look at the clock
> most of the time either. (Which probably is why my dinner time is
> anywhere between 6 and 8.30. Rough estimate of course.)

Well the children generally know when the time comes for school,
sometimes you have to get the up but they usally do this themselves.
If they are late to school it is not a big deal.

If you miss you flight well another will be along. Meetings?
I have not seen a train, I don't think we have them or need them. There
is not the need, you may know, being on an island.

Dinner time is when and where you find it :)

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:55:14 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:

> On 31 Mar 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>
>>> Is an idea, yes - for the brave. Most people are ruled by their
>>> watches, they have preconditioned their brains to obey the numbers on
>>> the clock :-)
>>
>> That is what I can not figure out. What is So important that you have
>> a clock do your thinking for you?
>>
>> We in Philippines don't care what the clock says, we generally go and
>> come when we desire. If the party starts a 5:00PM and we show up at
>> 8:00PM it's OK.
>
> But what if the party ends at 7:30 or all the food is gone?
>

The food is never gone. And the party lasts till whenever, it doesn't
really end. The whole neighborhood parties.

>> Most of us don't even have a watch.... we can't afford one :)
>
> Industrialization changes a society's tempo. -I'm not saying for the
> better.

Not here :)

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Vladimir wrote:

> You must be from Queensland! Joh's morons are still alive and well.

I was brought up in Sydney as it happens.

As to where I'm "from"... that's a question with many answers.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 5 days, 11:07.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Toby A Inkster wrote:

> Vladimir wrote:
>
> > You must be from Queensland! Joh's morons are still alive and well.
>
> I was brought up in Sydney as it happens.
>
> As to where I'm "from"... that's a question with many answers.

I think he was referring to Adrienne in his post. I remember this
because I rarely want to strangle a Russian.

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 31 Mar 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

>>> We in Philippines don't care what the clock says, we generally go and
>>> come when we desire. If the party starts a 5:00PM and we show up at
>>> 8:00PM it's OK.
>>
>> But what if the party ends at 7:30 or all the food is gone?
>>
>
> The food is never gone. And the party lasts till whenever, it doesn't
> really end. The whole neighborhood parties.
>
>>> Most of us don't even have a watch.... we can't afford one :)
>>
>> Industrialization changes a society's tempo. -I'm not saying for the
>> better.
>
> Not here :)

Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town perhaps? I
remember living a life something like that in summer when I was a very
young kid. Naturally I liked it, but as I got older I didn't like not
having the freedom and independence enjoyed by a typical adult. Ergo, I
was still dissatisfied and couldn't wait until I was old enough to assume
the benefits of adultery.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:28:25 GMT, Adrienne Boswell
wrote:

>I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
>to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
>isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
>are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
>beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
>clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
>I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

There was a study when Indiana recently went DST - their energy
consumption went up, not down. Daylight Savings Time is like
cutting off the bottom of your blanket and sewing that piece to the
top.

Computers should have always been internally Zulu time, with time
zones only used for displaying. When it is important to know which
transactions happen first, setting back the clock screws things up.

China is on one time zone (while Siberia has loads of time zones
adjacent to it). Sports fans in the U.S. are learning ESPN time.

My son-in-law got an e-mail telling him to fly to Seattle for a
meeting. Outlook translated the time of the meeting to Rocky
Mountain Time (for a phone interview) - and he was late for his
meeting.

Livestock doesn't adjust to DST.

The world is getting smaller, Zulu should become second nature.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:03:00 -0400, Ed Mullen wrote:

>I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me when
>I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until almost
>10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just adjust
>the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

Which is pretty much the same thing as not changing it at all. What
the actual time is on the clock is really quite meaningless. If you
like golfing after work, go to work while it's still dark, and get out
when it's light. That's what I do.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:53:13 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
wrote:

>> My computer sets the change automatically.
>
>But it needs to know what time zone it's in, doesn't it? And that
>involves human intervention.

Why? Nowadays home computers look up the time on the Internet. This
was the first DST for me with a Mac, and it did it automatically. Same
thing for cell phones.

There should be a button on radios that say "synchronize time with the
current radio station's time".

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:55:30 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
Elzenga) wrote:

>It would also cause lots of little misunderstandings and disagreements.
>Let's say that we work in the same office, and we have a weekly meeting
>at 10.00 AM each monday. Would that meeting change to 9.00 AM too? You
>probably say that it does, but I may disagree. Why would the meeting
>have to change? The fact that we now come into the office one hour
>earlier has little or nothing to do with our meeting, so as far as I'm
>concerned 10.00 AM means 10.00 AM. BTW, wouldn't it be silly if the Nine
>O'Clock News was suddenly at eight? Just setting the clock one hour
>earlier avoids all those problems.

Farmers still get up to feed the livestock at the same time,
regardless of what the clock says. Businesses can avoid having
meetings real early or real late, allowing employees the option of
being early or late. People who live by TV shows won't adjust - but
they don't care whether it is light out anyway.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:19:11 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
Elzenga) wrote:

>That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
>because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
>from the morning.

Where did that hour come from?

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:43:06 GMT, "Rick Brandt"
wrote:

>You have completely missed the point. It is not about having more daylight.
>It is about having more daylight hours when people can take advantage of
>them. Having more daylight time before they wake up or before they go to
>work is no help to the vast majority of people. Having more daylight time
>AFTER work is extremely helpful.

So work earlier.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:36:07 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
wrote:

>> Gawd, another Bush republican.
>
>Not hardly. I'm about as anti-Republican as it gets.
>
>Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most people
>like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.

The same ones who don't believe the deficit is a tax.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:26:40 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
Elzenga) wrote:

>
>What part of "It's about having one more hour of daylight during the
>period that people are active" didn't you understand?

TV watchers live by the clock - but they don't need daylight.

People who like to do things outdoors, don't mind getting up earlier.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:00:37 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
Elzenga) wrote:

>You did indeed not understand a word of it, so let me try once more.
>I'll type it slowly:
>
>It's not about gaining an hour of daylight each day. It's about gaining
>an hour of daylight d u r i n g t h e t i m e t h a t y o u
>a r e a w a k e.

W a k e u p e a r l i e r, if that's what you want.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:51:39 +0200, Els
wrote:

>> In fact, my vote is that we scrap timezones altogether and everyone goes
>> by UTC all the time. I'm not suggesting that children in New Zealand ought
>> to be going to school at night time, and eating their lunches by the light
>> of the moon -- they'd keep their normal routines, it would just be the
>> notation used for times that would change.
>
>Would make it a bit difficult for long distance travellers I think. If
>you travel from the UK to the USA, and arrive in what previously was a
>timezone at UTC-7, you'll have to tell your mind that 1am is time to
>get up, and breakfast will only be served till 3am. Of course your
>body will agree with you that 3am is way too early to be even thinking
>of breakfast, but I'm not sure which would be confused more - your
>body or you mind - when trying to adjust to a new time schedule.
>You'd still have the jetlag, but now on top of it you have to keep
>calculating the times.

Why would they have to recalculate the times? Their watches are
unchanged. They can see if it is daylight out. They know what
time to phone home without calculating the way they do now. When
they phone a restaurant, they ask what time it will be open for
dinner.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:

> There should be a button on radios that say "synchronize time with the
> current radio station's time".

Probably too long a label, but most digital TVs and radios can pick up the
time from the airwaves. Hell, even my analogue VCR can.

Strangely my mobile can't. Or it doesn't seem to anyway.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 6 days, 2:23.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:00:37 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
> Elzenga) wrote:
>
> >You did indeed not understand a word of it, so let me try once more.
> >I'll type it slowly:
> >
> >It's not about gaining an hour of daylight each day. It's about gaining
> >an hour of daylight d u r i n g t h e t i m e t h a t y o u
> >a r e a w a k e.
>
> W a k e u p e a r l i e r, if that's what you want.

You are missing the point. DST is not about what *I* want or about what
*you* want. The purpose of DST is to save energy because the whole
society changes time. The government cannot order everybody to wake up
earlier. But it can change the official time. You can debate wether or
not DST actually does save energy, but that was the idea behind it.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:04:24 +0100, Toby A Inkster
wrote:

>> There should be a button on radios that say "synchronize time with the
>> current radio station's time".
>
>Probably too long a label, but most digital TVs and radios can pick up the
>time from the airwaves. Hell, even my analogue VCR can.
>
>Strangely my mobile can't. Or it doesn't seem to anyway.

We still want a button for people who can receive from stations from
multiple time zones.

This would particularly include car radios.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:52:07 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
Elzenga) wrote:

>You are missing the point. DST is not about what *I* want or about what
>*you* want. The purpose of DST is to save energy because the whole
>society changes time. The government cannot order everybody to wake up
>earlier. But it can change the official time. You can debate wether or
>not DST actually does save energy, but that was the idea behind it.

The only study I've read shows that it doesn't.

Politicians like to *do* stuff. If it doesn't work, we pay for it. A
grand purpose that isn't met doesn't make it right.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:03:00 -0400, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light
>> until almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we
>> should just adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the
>> year! :-D
>
> Which is pretty much the same thing as not changing it at all. What
> the actual time is on the clock is really quite meaningless. If you
> like golfing after work, go to work while it's still dark, and get out
> when it's light. That's what I do.

And that's a perfectly reasonable position to take if you are a person who
can set his own work hours. The vast majority of (employed) people cannot.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:43:06 GMT, "Rick Brandt"
> wrote:
>
>> You have completely missed the point. It is not about having more
>> daylight. It is about having more daylight hours when people can
>> take advantage of them. Having more daylight time before they wake
>> up or before they go to work is no help to the vast majority of
>> people. Having more daylight time AFTER work is extremely helpful.
>
> So work earlier.

Not all people get to choose when they work.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:52:07 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
> Elzenga) wrote:
>
> >You are missing the point. DST is not about what *I* want or about what
> >*you* want. The purpose of DST is to save energy because the whole
> >society changes time. The government cannot order everybody to wake up
> >earlier. But it can change the official time. You can debate wether or
> >not DST actually does save energy, but that was the idea behind it.
>
> The only study I've read shows that it doesn't.

Sigh... Do I really need to repeat everthing? I don't care if it works
or not. I didn't invent DST, so I don't have to defend it either. I'm
just trying to explain how it works and what the idea behind it is.

> Politicians like to *do* stuff. If it doesn't work, we pay for it. A
> grand purpose that isn't met doesn't make it right.

I'm not saying it's right (or wrong). I'm just trying to explain how it
works and what the idea behind it is.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:28:12 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:24:28 +0200, Johan W. Elzenga wrote:
>>
>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> Nothing, You have exactly the same amount of "daylite" DST only
>>>> >> re-lables it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You don't gain or get anything.
>>>> >
>>>> > You did indeed not understand a word of it, so let me try once
>>>> > more. I'll type it slowly:
>>>> >
>>>> > It's not about gaining an hour of daylight each day. It's about
>>>> > gaining an hour of daylight d u r i n g t h e t i m e t h a
>>>> > t
>>>> > y o u a r e a w a k e.
>>>>
>>>> Let me re-type this again....How do you know when I sleep and when I
>>>> am awake?
>>>
>>> I don't and I couldn't care less. As far as I'm concerned, you are
>>> never realy awake. But what makes you think that DST was invented
>>> especially for you and only for you? I hate to be the one to bring
>>> this news to you, but it wasn't.
>>
>> Why would I care who it was invented for?
>>
>> Why would it be invented for me?
>>
>> I am not in a country that practices DST.
>
> That said, I've never understood how people can get all wrapped around
> the axle about DST. Right now, it's approaching 8:30 PM here. If we
> weren't on DST, it would be approaching 7:30 PM. I couldn't care less
> which time it is. Anything I can do in the dark I can do in the light;
> anything I can do in the light I can do in the dark. Especially living
> in a nation advanced enough to have electricity.

Yes but you are a shark, you can swim and navigate in the light or dark.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:36:25 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:

> On 31 Mar 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>
>>>> We in Philippines don't care what the clock says, we generally go
>>>> and come when we desire. If the party starts a 5:00PM and we show up
>>>> at 8:00PM it's OK.
>>>
>>> But what if the party ends at 7:30 or all the food is gone?
>>>
>>>
>> The food is never gone. And the party lasts till whenever, it doesn't
>> really end. The whole neighborhood parties.
>>
>>>> Most of us don't even have a watch.... we can't afford one :)
>>>
>>> Industrialization changes a society's tempo. -I'm not saying for the
>>> better.
>>
>> Not here :)
>
> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town perhaps?

Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.

I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I least to Dole to grow
pineapples.

> I remember living a life something like that in summer when I was a very
> young kid. Naturally I liked it, but as I got older I didn't like not
> having the freedom and independence enjoyed by a typical adult. Ergo, I
> was still dissatisfied and couldn't wait until I was old enough to
> assume the benefits of adultery.
--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article <1ieql8f.o5uglh1vhi1oiN%nomail@please.invalid>,
nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> I'm not saying it's right (or wrong). I'm just trying to explain how it
> works and what the idea behind it is.

Johan, it is very hard to reason with those who oppose DLS. They are
very violent and dangerous people. That is the real reason DLS was
invented in the first place. To keep the daylight going for longer so we
could keep a watch on these buggers creeping up behind us and whacking
us.

They will never understand that the simplest thing for one community to
do is to change the clock hand and magically achieve safety. They hate
the way they are so easily exposed and thus thwarted in their dastardly
aims.

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 01 Apr 2008, Howard Brazee wrote:

>>> My computer sets the change automatically.
>>
>>But it needs to know what time zone it's in, doesn't it? And that
>>involves human intervention.
>
> Why? Nowadays home computers look up the time on the Internet.

But it still needs to be programmed with what region it's in, doesn't it?

> This
> was the first DST for me with a Mac, and it did it automatically. Same
> thing for cell phones.

Windows machines have been doing that for years, but I suppose it's easy to
impress a Mac owner...

> There should be a button on radios that say "synchronize time with the
> current radio station's time".

I can buy that.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 01 Apr 2008, Howard Brazee wrote:

>>> Gawd, another Bush republican.
>>
>>Not hardly. I'm about as anti-Republican as it gets.
>>
>>Take the "Economic Stimulus" package. I'd be willing to bet most people
>>like it. "Oh, $300 for free! Great! Yeah George!!" Geesh.
>
> The same ones who don't believe the deficit is a tax.

Yeah.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 01 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

>> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town perhaps?
>
> Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.
>
> I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I least to Dole to grow
> pineapples.

Mindanao - even the name sounds exotic! I've seen it on maps, of course,
but can't quite (exactly) place it. Will look it up anon.

I hope Dole pays you well; the price of pineapple in The States is higher
than a coconut on-the-vine.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:12:40 GMT, "Rick Brandt"
wrote:

>> Which is pretty much the same thing as not changing it at all. What
>> the actual time is on the clock is really quite meaningless. If you
>> like golfing after work, go to work while it's still dark, and get out
>> when it's light. That's what I do.
>
>And that's a perfectly reasonable position to take if you are a person who
>can set his own work hours. The vast majority of (employed) people cannot.

People who run their own shops and resturaunts even have less freedom
- and they are more likely to have to work swing shift which doesn't
gain a bit by setting the clock back an hour.

Businesses that like people working earlier can have their shifts
earlier.

Lots of people can't work the standard shifts because one spouse takes
the kids to school, and the other spouse picks them up.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:56:44 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
wrote:

>> Why? Nowadays home computers look up the time on the Internet.
>
>But it still needs to be programmed with what region it's in, doesn't it?

Once.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:21:49 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
Elzenga) wrote:

>> The only study I've read shows that it doesn't.
>
>Sigh... Do I really need to repeat everthing? I don't care if it works
>or not. I didn't invent DST, so I don't have to defend it either. I'm
>just trying to explain how it works and what the idea behind it is.

We do care whether it works or not. And we are allowed to complain
when it doesnt work, and suggest we would be better off without it.

>> Politicians like to *do* stuff. If it doesn't work, we pay for it. A
>> grand purpose that isn't met doesn't make it right.
>
>I'm not saying it's right (or wrong). I'm just trying to explain how it
>works and what the idea behind it is.

The energy saving bit is a Johnny come lately excuse for DST.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:40:07 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
wrote:

>I don't think adjusting the clock is easier at all. What would be wrong
>with making a ruling that all scheduled times are an hour earlier between
>such and such dates? You have to remember to change clocks, anyway (except
>maybe on the 'puter), so...

Mainly because we can't have a law deciding that our Tuesday morning
meeting should be at 9:00 part of the year and 10:00 another part of
the year. Especially if it was already pretty random depending on
when people arrived.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:41:45 +0100, Toby A Inkster
wrote:

>Before WWI, Liberia was at GMT-00:43:08, and until WWII, the Netherlands
>were at GMT+00:19:32. But the last of those weird time zones was phased
>out in the 1980s, so all time zones are now rounded off to 15 minutes.

Is Saudi Arabia now in a time zone? The map on my wall (which still
shows the USSR), had its time officially set daily at daylight.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:41:45 +0100, Toby A Inkster
> wrote:
>
>> Before WWI, Liberia was at GMT-00:43:08, and until WWII, the Netherlands
>> were at GMT+00:19:32. But the last of those weird time zones was phased
>> out in the 1980s, so all time zones are now rounded off to 15 minutes.
>
> Is Saudi Arabia now in a time zone? The map on my wall (which still
> shows the USSR), had its time officially set daily at daylight.

Prior to 1950 Saudi Arabia was at 3:06:52. On the 1st of January 1950,
clocks went back 0:06:52, putting them at UTC+3. In 1987, they decided to
try something a bit different, and did indeed set the time zone daily,
though it was at sunset (when the Islamic day starts) rather than sunrise.
However, it was deemed too impractical, so they returned to UTC+3 in 1989.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 6 days, 19:58.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:21:49 +0200, nomail@please.invalid (Johan W.
> Elzenga) wrote:
>
> >> The only study I've read shows that it doesn't.
> >
> >Sigh... Do I really need to repeat everthing? I don't care if it works
> >or not. I didn't invent DST, so I don't have to defend it either. I'm
> >just trying to explain how it works and what the idea behind it is.
>
> We do care whether it works or not. And we are allowed to complain
> when it doesnt work, and suggest we would be better off without it.

Sure, but:

A: to complain in 'comp.sys.mac.apps' and/or 'alt.html' somehow doesn't
seem to the the right place, if you ask me.
B: to complain about it in respons to me explaining how it works also
doesn't seem to be the right way, because I neither invented or defended
DST.
C: You're beginning to sound so much like Don Quichotte.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article <1ien13e.k1es9u1c8yd9xN%nomail@please.invalid>,
nomail@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> It's not about gaining an hour of daylight each day. It's about gaining
> an hour of daylight d u r i n g t h e t i m e t h a t y o u
> a r e a w a k e.

But when it gets light, I wake up, get up and start working. What have
clocks got to do with it?

--
http://www.ericlindsay.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 2008-04-01, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:56:44 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
> wrote:
>
>>> Why? Nowadays home computers look up the time on the Internet.
>>
>>But it still needs to be programmed with what region it's in, doesn't it?
>
> Once.

Or whenever there is a change is the rules.

I wish all my clocks were Linux (or other *nix) appliances, then I
wouldn't have to worry about it.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster
============================================================ =======
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:06:40 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:

> On 01 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>
>>> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town
>>> perhaps?
>>
>> Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.
>>
>> I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I lease to Dole to grow
>> pineapples.
>
> Mindanao - even the name sounds exotic! I've seen it on maps, of
> course, but can't quite (exactly) place it. Will look it up anon.
>
> I hope Dole pays you well; the price of pineapple in The States is
> higher than a coconut on-the-vine.

I Get $5,000USD.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:48:04 +0000, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

> On 2008-04-01, Howard Brazee wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:56:44 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Why? Nowadays home computers look up the time on the Internet.
>>>
>>>But it still needs to be programmed with what region it's in, doesn't
>>>it?
>>
>> Once.
>
> Or whenever there is a change is the rules.
>
> I wish all my clocks were Linux (or other *nix) appliances, then I
> wouldn't have to worry about it.

Yes indeed, Windows don't even know how to handle UTC.

On dual boot boxen you have to set the clock to local time or doze can't
tell the correct time!

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> Yes indeed, Windows don't even know how to handle UTC.
>
> On dual boot boxen you have to set the clock to local time or doze can't
> tell the correct time!
>

To Big Bill zulu is in Redmond, or at least the center of the universe...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 02 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

>>>> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town
>>>> perhaps?
>>>
>>> Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.
>>>
>>> I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I lease to Dole to grow
>>> pineapples.
>>
>> Mindanao - even the name sounds exotic! I've seen it on maps, of
>> course, but can't quite (exactly) place it. Will look it up anon.
>>
>> I hope Dole pays you well; the price of pineapple in The States is
>> higher than a coconut on-the-vine.
>
> I Get $5,000USD.

$5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states! You
rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor, naive American
entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's patsy.

I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the south in
the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see Cagayan de Oro,
Davao, and Mt. Apo. (Just wondering, do people who climb that mountain get
Apo-plexy?) Also saw Zamboanga which is the subject of some very old song
here.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> On 02 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>
>>>>> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town
>>>>> perhaps?
>>>>
>>>> Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.
>>>>
>>>> I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I lease to Dole to grow
>>>> pineapples.
>>>
>>> Mindanao - even the name sounds exotic! I've seen it on maps, of
>>> course, but can't quite (exactly) place it. Will look it up anon.
>>>
>>> I hope Dole pays you well; the price of pineapple in The States is
>>> higher than a coconut on-the-vine.
>>
>> I Get $5,000USD.
>
> $5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states! You
> rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor, naive
> American entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's patsy.
>
>
> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the south
> in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see Cagayan de

Wouldn't that be to the south of Luzon? Just to be daring, no, I
have not looked that up. I stand naked before you. Kinda.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 02 Apr 2008, Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the
>> south in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see
>> Cagayan de
>
> Wouldn't that be to the south of Luzon? Just to be daring, no, I
> have not looked that up. I stand naked before you. Kinda.

Well, Luzon is (mainly) a large blob at the north end and Mindanao is a
large blob at the south end and there is quite a distance between. I
really don't know much about the Philippines but one time I almost went
there with a friend who had relatives around Manila. (The reason we didn't
go is because _he_ didn't go because he got divorced.)

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Neredbojias wrote:

> $5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states! You
> rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor, naive American
> entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's patsy.

Pineapples are a buck-forty-nine at No Frills this week. We use a lot of
them in our Inn. Yes, I am a bit Fawlty-ish, but the guests love it.
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> On 02 Apr 2008, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the
>>> south in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see
>>> Cagayan de
>>
>> Wouldn't that be to the south of Luzon? Just to be daring, no, I have
>> not looked that up. I stand naked before you. Kinda.
>
> Well, Luzon is (mainly) a large blob at the north end and Mindanao is a
> large blob at the south end and there is quite a distance between. I
> really don't know much about the Philippines but one time I almost went
> there with a friend who had relatives around Manila. (The reason we
> didn't go is because _he_ didn't go because he got divorced.)

I'm a student of WWII, so while I don't know every island in the Pacific
I'm probably ahead of the average.

Also, I was conceived shortly after my dad came home from Manila and was
mustered out of the US Army in 1946. :)

Oh...and my Tax Guy is Philipino (Filipino, whatever). True Story: when
describing the small island he's from, he said that it's about three by
five miles in size, and there's nothing to do there but harvest
coconuts..."But we have a web site!"


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> On 02 Apr 2008, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>
>>>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the
>>>> south in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see
>>>> Cagayan de
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that be to the south of Luzon? Just to be daring, no, I have
>>> not looked that up. I stand naked before you. Kinda.
>>
>> Well, Luzon is (mainly) a large blob at the north end and Mindanao is a
>> large blob at the south end and there is quite a distance between. I
>> really don't know much about the Philippines but one time I almost went
>> there with a friend who had relatives around Manila. (The reason we
>> didn't go is because _he_ didn't go because he got divorced.)
>
> I'm a student of WWII, so while I don't know every island in the Pacific
> I'm probably ahead of the average.
>
> Also, I was conceived shortly after my dad came home from Manila and was
> mustered out of the US Army in 1946. :)
>
> Oh...and my Tax Guy is Philipino (Filipino, whatever). True Story: when
> describing the small island he's from, he said that it's about three by
> five miles in size, and there's nothing to do there but harvest
> coconuts..."But we have a web site!"

Or pineapples. One or the other. :)


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 03 Apr 2008, Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> Well, Luzon is (mainly) a large blob at the north end and Mindanao is a
>> large blob at the south end and there is quite a distance between. I
>> really don't know much about the Philippines but one time I almost went
>> there with a friend who had relatives around Manila. (The reason we
>> didn't go is because _he_ didn't go because he got divorced.)
>
> I'm a student of WWII, so while I don't know every island in the Pacific
> I'm probably ahead of the average.
>
> Also, I was conceived shortly after my dad came home from Manila and was
> mustered out of the US Army in 1946. :)
>
> Oh...and my Tax Guy is Philipino (Filipino, whatever). True Story: when
> describing the small island he's from, he said that it's about three by
> five miles in size, and there's nothing to do there but harvest
> coconuts..."But we have a web site!"

I'm a city boy but in my late teens I spent some time in a rural area.
Whereas I thought it was peaceful and almost idyllic, enviable to say the
least, the people who lived there couldn't wait to get out and experience
"action/adventure/excitement" - the "fast lane" so to speak. Perspective
is significant.

That's one of the best things about the Internet: it "can go" anywhere (-
assuming adequate support techology.) In my early days on The Web, I was
chatting with some guy in Kuala Lumpur who had a site with chat. I'm not
crazy about chat in general, but that was cool.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 03 Apr 2008, Warren Oates wrote:

>> $5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states!
>> You rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor,
>> naive American entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's
>> patsy.
>
> Pineapples are a buck-forty-nine at No Frills this week. We use a lot
> of them in our Inn. Yes, I am a bit Fawlty-ish, but the guests love
> it.

$1.49 ain't bad. But yours probably came from Australia where they do
anything for a buck.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Neredbojias wrote:

> $1.49 ain't bad. But yours probably came from Australia where they do
> anything for a buck.

Hmm. The ol' Woman seems to have thrown the label out. Some of them come
from Costa Rica, I think. We don't get much from Aus here in Southern
Ontario, even Vegemite's hard to come by ...
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 04:50:47 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:

[putolin]

> $5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states!
> You rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor, naive
> American entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's patsy.
>
>
> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the south
> in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see Cagayan de
> Oro, Davao, and Mt. Apo. (Just wondering, do people who climb that
> mountain get Apo-plexy?) Also saw Zamboanga which is the subject of
> some very old song here.

Zamboanga is where most of the muslim Filipino live. I don't go there :)


--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:49:12 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article ,
> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> $1.49 ain't bad. But yours probably came from Australia where they do
>> anything for a buck.
>
> Hmm. The ol' Woman seems to have thrown the label out. Some of them come
> from Costa Rica, I think. We don't get much from Aus here in Southern
> Ontario, even Vegemite's hard to come by ...

Nothing beats Pineapple from the Philippines, it is the best, but some
say I am biased :)

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:45:34 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> On 02 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town
>>>>>> perhaps?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.
>>>>>
>>>>> I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I lease to Dole to grow
>>>>> pineapples.
>>>>
>>>> Mindanao - even the name sounds exotic! I've seen it on maps, of
>>>> course, but can't quite (exactly) place it. Will look it up anon.
>>>>
>>>> I hope Dole pays you well; the price of pineapple in The States is
>>>> higher than a coconut on-the-vine.
>>>
>>> I Get $5,000USD.
>>
>> $5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states!
>> You rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor, naive
>> American entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's patsy.
>>
>>
>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the
>> south in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see
>> Cagayan de
>
> Wouldn't that be to the south of Luzon? Just to be daring, no, I have
> not looked that up. I stand naked before you. Kinda.

Yes it is south of Luzon, By the way why don't you have a swim over here?

Then if I can tell you from all the other sharks ( you all look alike ) I
can show you around. :)

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

[putolin]

>
> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the northern
> middle of the US (Michigan).

Wouldn't that be a small lake?

>I moved to Los Angeles (Hollywood) when I
> was 33. Both worlds. I can see both sides of each of them from
> experience.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> On 03 Apr 2008, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>>> Well, Luzon is (mainly) a large blob at the north end and Mindanao is a
>>> large blob at the south end and there is quite a distance between. I
>>> really don't know much about the Philippines but one time I almost went
>>> there with a friend who had relatives around Manila. (The reason we
>>> didn't go is because _he_ didn't go because he got divorced.)
>>
>> I'm a student of WWII, so while I don't know every island in the Pacific
>> I'm probably ahead of the average.
>>
>> Also, I was conceived shortly after my dad came home from Manila and was
>> mustered out of the US Army in 1946. :)
>>
>> Oh...and my Tax Guy is Philipino (Filipino, whatever). True Story: when
>> describing the small island he's from, he said that it's about three by
>> five miles in size, and there's nothing to do there but harvest
>> coconuts..."But we have a web site!"
>
> I'm a city boy but in my late teens I spent some time in a rural area.
> Whereas I thought it was peaceful and almost idyllic, enviable to say the
> least, the people who lived there couldn't wait to get out and experience
> "action/adventure/excitement" - the "fast lane" so to speak. Perspective
> is significant.

I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the
northern middle of the US (Michigan). I moved to Los Angeles (Hollywood)
when I was 33. Both worlds. I can see both sides of each of them from
experience.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 03 Apr 2008, Blinky the Shark wrote:

>> I'm a city boy but in my late teens I spent some time in a rural
>> area. Whereas I thought it was peaceful and almost idyllic, enviable
>> to say the least, the people who lived there couldn't wait to get out
>> and experience "action/adventure/excitement" - the "fast lane" so to
>> speak. Perspective is significant.
>
> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the
> northern middle of the US (Michigan). I moved to Los Angeles
> (Hollywood) when I was 33. Both worlds. I can see both sides of each
> of them from experience.

It's good to know both sides of something because neither is perfect nor
totally bad. ('Cept Flash, of course.)

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 03 Apr 2008, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article ,
> Neredbojias wrote:
>
>> $1.49 ain't bad. But yours probably came from Australia where they do
>> anything for a buck.
>
> Hmm. The ol' Woman seems to have thrown the label out. Some of them come
> from Costa Rica, I think. We don't get much from Aus here in Southern
> Ontario, even Vegemite's hard to come by ...

What exactly is "vegemite", anyway?

Btw, I liked you in "The Wild Bunch".

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 03 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the south
>> in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see Cagayan de
>> Oro, Davao, and Mt. Apo. (Just wondering, do people who climb that
>> mountain get Apo-plexy?) Also saw Zamboanga which is the subject of
>> some very old song here.
>
> Zamboanga is where most of the muslim Filipino live. I don't go there :)

Why? Is it dangerous to non-muslims?

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:45:34 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>
>>> On 02 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds nice, actually. Do you live in Manila, or a small town
>>>>>>> perhaps?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cagayan de Oro City, Mindanao.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I own some land in Bukinon, Mindanao which I lease to Dole to grow
>>>>>> pineapples.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mindanao - even the name sounds exotic! I've seen it on maps, of
>>>>> course, but can't quite (exactly) place it. Will look it up anon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope Dole pays you well; the price of pineapple in The States is
>>>>> higher than a coconut on-the-vine.
>>>>
>>>> I Get $5,000USD.
>>>
>>> $5,000 dollars!!! No wonder the pineapple is so high in the states!
>>> You rich Philippino landowners are taking advantage of our poor, naive
>>> American entrepreneurs. Well, I guess the U.S. is everybody's patsy.
>>>
>>>
>>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the
>>> south in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see
>>> Cagayan de
>>
>> Wouldn't that be to the south of Luzon? Just to be daring, no, I have
>> not looked that up. I stand naked before you. Kinda.
>
> Yes it is south of Luzon, By the way why don't you have a swim over here?
>
> Then if I can tell you from all the other sharks ( you all look alike ) I
> can show you around. :)

I'll be the one with the laptop.

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
> [putolin]
>
>
>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the northern
>> middle of the US (Michigan).
>
> Wouldn't that be a small lake?

Why would that be a small lake?


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Neredbojias wrote:

> On 03 Apr 2008, Warren Oates wrote:
>
>> In article ,
>> Neredbojias wrote:
>>
>>> $1.49 ain't bad. But yours probably came from Australia where they do
>>> anything for a buck.
>>
>> Hmm. The ol' Woman seems to have thrown the label out. Some of them come
>> from Costa Rica, I think. We don't get much from Aus here in Southern
>> Ontario, even Vegemite's hard to come by ...
>
> What exactly is "vegemite", anyway?

Here we go! Next up: Marmite

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 03 Apr 2008, Lewis wrote:

>> What exactly is "vegemite", anyway?
>
> Imagine you have the job of cleaning college dorm rooms.
>
> Imagine that each year you take the drippings from the dorm fridges and
> scrape it out.
>
> Then, you put it in a black plastic tub, add equal parts toe jam and flop
> sweat, leave it in the sun for 3 days, and spread the results on bread.
>
> That's vegemite.

Ooo, scrumptious. Figures it would be Australian.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 2008-03-30 14:58:27 +1100, dorayme said:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

Set your Mac to use a time server, all 4 Macs in this house are showing
the correct time.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:38:12 -0500, Lewis
wrote:

>> TV watchers live by the clock
>
>No, we don't. I watch a lot of tv. I don't even know what NETWORK most shows
>are on, and the only show I am pretty sure of the day is the Simpsons, because
>it's been on since before TiVo.
>
>For example, ER is a Sunday afternoon show in my house, I usually watch it
>around a NFL game or something (about the only thing I ever see sort of live).

Lots of TV watchers live by the clock - I would guess a strong
majority.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:31:30 -0500, Lewis
wrote:

>> Computers should have always been internally Zulu time, with time
>> zones only used for displaying. When it is important to know which
>> transactions happen first, setting back the clock screws things up.
>
>Real computers are. They mark there time off UTC.

Twice a year, the IBM-MAIN newsgroup has discussion about DST.
Mainframe computers are widely considered "real computers".

The odd thing here is that we are using Unix - it should be more of a
"real computer" than Linux...

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 02:43:32 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
wrote:

>It's good to know both sides of something because neither is perfect nor
>totally bad. ('Cept Flash, of course.)

What's "Flash" in this context?

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 04 Apr 2008, Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 02:43:32 +0000 (UTC), Neredbojias
> wrote:
>
>>It's good to know both sides of something because neither is perfect nor
>>totally bad. ('Cept Flash, of course.)
>
> What's "Flash" in this context?

Flash is pure evil. If Flash were a drinkable liquid, even a man dying of
thirst in a desert wouldn't touch it. If Flash were a politician, it'd be
George Bush. If Flash were an alien, it'd be one of the Daleks. Ergo, I
thought it prudent to note the exception to "totally bad".

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 04 Apr 2008, dorayme wrote:

> In article <47f60b39$0$12542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> Trymee wrote:
>
>> On 2008-03-30 14:58:27 +1100, dorayme
>> said:
>>
>> > In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April
>> > (a week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back
>> > an hour today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per
>> > region basis (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has
>> > stuffed up. Had to manually put it forward again. It is possible, I
>> > suppose, it is just my machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>>
>> Set your Mac to use a time server, all 4 Macs in this house are
>> showing the correct time.
>
> This is so sweet. You just parachute in and say this after all this
> time in the thread. You like me, not from this planet earth? But a
> later arrival?

That's strange. I thought you were pmsing _last_ week.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article <47f60b39$0$12542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Trymee wrote:

> On 2008-03-30 14:58:27 +1100, dorayme said:
>
> > In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> > week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> > today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> > (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> > manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> > machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>
> Set your Mac to use a time server, all 4 Macs in this house are showing
> the correct time.

This is so sweet. You just parachute in and say this after all this time
in the thread. You like me, not from this planet earth? But a later
arrival?

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:28:50 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>
>> [putolin]
>>
>>
>>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the northern
>>> middle of the US (Michigan).
>>
>> Wouldn't that be a small lake?
>
> Why would that be a small lake?

Otherwise you'd be a fish out of water.


--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 02:48:06 +0000, Neredbojias wrote:

> On 03 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:
>
>>> I looked up Mindanao on some Google map. -The large island to the
>>> south in the Phillipines. They didn't list Bukinon, but I did see
>>> Cagayan de Oro, Davao, and Mt. Apo. (Just wondering, do people who
>>> climb that mountain get Apo-plexy?) Also saw Zamboanga which is the
>>> subject of some very old song here.
>>
>> Zamboanga is where most of the muslim Filipino live. I don't go there
>> :)
>
> Why? Is it dangerous to non-muslims?

Only if you lose your head.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:28:50 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>
>>> [putolin]
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the northern
>>>> middle of the US (Michigan).
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that be a small lake?
>>
>> Why would that be a small lake?
>
> Otherwise you'd be a fish out of water.

Ah! In fact, the town was Battle Creek, so there *was* some water
involved. And a battle.

What does your sig mean?

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:13:19 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:28:50 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>
>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [putolin]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the
>>>>> northern middle of the US (Michigan).
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't that be a small lake?
>>>
>>> Why would that be a small lake?
>>
>> Otherwise you'd be a fish out of water.
>
> Ah! In fact, the town was Battle Creek, so there *was* some water
> involved. And a battle.
>
> What does your sig mean?

We are Filipino

or as some say

We some Filipino

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Neredbojias
writing in
news:Xns9A75C91AE399Dneredbojiasnano@85.214.90.236:

> What exactly is "vegemite", anyway?
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Baho Utot wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:13:19 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:28:50 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>
>>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [putolin]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the
>>>>>> northern middle of the US (Michigan).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't that be a small lake?
>>>>
>>>> Why would that be a small lake?
>>>
>>> Otherwise you'd be a fish out of water.
>>
>> Ah! In fact, the town was Battle Creek, so there *was* some water
>> involved. And a battle.
>>
>> What does your sig mean?
>
> We are Filipino

Who here knows the Queen classic tune, "We Will Rock You"?

Try singing the refrain using

We are Fil i pi no

Works a treat. :)

Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day
You got mud on yo' face
You big disgrace
Kickin' your can all over the place
Sing it!

We are Fil i pi no
We are Fil i pi no

....


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Blinky the Shark wrote in
news:pan.2008.04.05.05.01.07.10270@thurston.blinkynet.net:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:13:19 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

>>> What does your sig mean?
>>
>> We are Filipino
>
> Who here knows the Queen classic tune, "We Will Rock You"?
>
> Try singing the refrain using
>
> We are Fil i pi no
>
> Works a treat. :)
>
> Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
> Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day
> You got mud on yo' face
> You big disgrace
> Kickin' your can all over the place
> Sing it!
>
> We are Fil i pi no
> We are Fil i pi no
>
> ...
>
>

Don't give up your day job :-)

--
Richard
Killing all google posts and replies to google posts
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Ed Jay wrote:

> Blinky the Shark scribed:
>
>>Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:13:19 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>
>>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:28:50 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [putolin]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the
>>>>>>>> northern middle of the US (Michigan).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wouldn't that be a small lake?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would that be a small lake?
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise you'd be a fish out of water.
>>>>
>>>> Ah! In fact, the town was Battle Creek, so there *was* some water
>>>> involved. And a battle.
>>>>
>>>> What does your sig mean?
>>>
>>> We are Filipino
>>
>>Who here knows the Queen classic tune, "We Will Rock You"?
>>
>>Try singing the refrain using
>>
>> We are Fil i pi no
>>
>>Works a treat. :)
>>
>> Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
>> Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day You got mud on yo'
>> face
>> You big disgrace
>> Kickin' your can all over the place
>> Sing it!
>>
>> We are Fil i pi no
>> We are Fil i pi no
>>
> Funny...independent of your post, that's exactly what came to my mind.

I was sending out strong signals. And you forgot to wear your tinfoil
beanie tonight.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

rf wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote in
> news:pan.2008.04.05.05.01.07.10270@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>
>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:13:19 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>>>> What does your sig mean?
>>>
>>> We are Filipino
>>
>> Who here knows the Queen classic tune, "We Will Rock You"?
>>
>> Try singing the refrain using
>>
>> We are Fil i pi no
>>
>> Works a treat. :)
>>
>> Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
>> Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day You got mud on yo'
>> face
>> You big disgrace
>> Kickin' your can all over the place
>> Sing it!
>>
>> We are Fil i pi no
>> We are Fil i pi no
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
> Don't give up your day job :-)

Hey! It's a perfect fit. :)

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 2008-04-05 05:39:12 +1100, dorayme said:

> In article <47f60b39$0$12542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> Trymee wrote:
>
>> On 2008-03-30 14:58:27 +1100, dorayme said:
>>
>>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
>>> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
>>> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
>>> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
>>> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>>
>> Set your Mac to use a time server, all 4 Macs in this house are showing
>> the correct time.
>
> This is so sweet. You just parachute in and say this after all this time
> in the thread. You like me, not from this planet earth? But a later
> arrival?

Simple answer, doesn't need complication and endless conversation
thrown in to the mix. Set, forget. End of story.

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:01:12 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:

[putolin]

>>> What does your sig mean?
>>
>> We are Filipino
>
> Who here knows the Queen classic tune, "We Will Rock You"?
>
> Try singing the refrain using
>
> We are Fil i pi no
>
> Works a treat. :)
>
> Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
> Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day You got mud on yo'
> face
> You big disgrace
> Kickin' your can all over the place
> Sing it!
>
> We are Fil i pi no
> We are Fil i pi no
>
> ...

Hey if it works use it :)

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article ,
Baho Utot wrote:

> > Why? Is it dangerous to non-muslims?
>
> Only if you lose your head.

The cut off your head for stealing a pineapple?
--
W. Oates

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 04 Apr 2008, Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Neredbojias
>
>> What exactly is "vegemite", anyway?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite

Eew! Looks like diaper stuff.

Thanks, but...

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 04 Apr 2008, Baho Utot wrote:

>>> Zamboanga is where most of the muslim Filipino live. I don't go there
>>> :)
>>
>> Why? Is it dangerous to non-muslims?
>
> Only if you lose your head.

Well, I better avoid it then 'cause I do tend to lose my head once in a
while. Mostly, though, I worry about losing my ass...

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008 08:19:29 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article ,
> Baho Utot wrote:
>
>> > Why? Is it dangerous to non-muslims?
>>
>> Only if you lose your head.
>
> The cut off your head for stealing a pineapple?

No the muslims will cutoff the infidel head.


--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

Ed Jay wrote:

> Blinky the Shark scribed:
>
>>Ed Jay wrote:
>>
>>> Blinky the Shark scribed:
>>>
>>>>Baho Utot wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:13:19 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:28:50 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Baho Utot wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:42:05 -0800, Blinky the Shark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [putolin]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was raised on the very edge of a small (35,000) town in the
>>>>>>>>>> northern middle of the US (Michigan).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't that be a small lake?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would that be a small lake?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Otherwise you'd be a fish out of water.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah! In fact, the town was Battle Creek, so there *was* some water
>>>>>> involved. And a battle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does your sig mean?
>>>>>
>>>>> We are Filipino
>>>>
>>>>Who here knows the Queen classic tune, "We Will Rock You"?
>>>>
>>>>Try singing the refrain using
>>>>
>>>> We are Fil i pi no
>>>>
>>>>Works a treat. :)
>>>>
>>>> Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
>>>> Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day You got mud on yo'
>>>> face
>>>> You big disgrace
>>>> Kickin' your can all over the place
>>>> Sing it!
>>>>
>>>> We are Fil i pi no
>>>> We are Fil i pi no
>>>>
>>> Funny...independent of your post, that's exactly what came to my mind.
>>
>>I was sending out strong signals. And you forgot to wear your tinfoil
>>beanie tonight.
>
> I feel outed.

I have an inny.

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

In article <47f74644$0$17201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Trymee wrote:

> On 2008-04-05 05:39:12 +1100, dorayme said:
>
> > In article <47f60b39$0$12542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> > Trymee wrote:
> >
> >> On 2008-03-30 14:58:27 +1100, dorayme
> >> said:
> >>
> >>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> >>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> >>> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> >>> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> >>> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> >>> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
> >>
> >> Set your Mac to use a time server, all 4 Macs in this house are showing
> >> the correct time.
> >
> > This is so sweet. You just parachute in and say this after all this time
> > in the thread. You like me, not from this planet earth? But a later
> > arrival?
>
> Simple answer, doesn't need complication and endless conversation
> thrown in to the mix. Set, forget. End of story.

What did you understand me to mean when I said "done automatically on a
per region basis (set in sys pref on a Mac)"? Is this different to using
your "time server"? And did you read the news and early subsequent
replies to my post which revealed software issues, Apple issues, NSW
Govt issues?

--
dorayme

Re: Daylight saving in NSW

On 30 Mar 2008, Harlan Messinger
wrote:

> dorayme wrote:
>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
>> hour today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region
>> basis (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed
>> up. Had to manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose,
>> it is just my machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>>
> Why hasn't Jukka joined the thread, to scream that this belongs in
> comp.systems.clocks? (Hmm, he didn't even complain that the Easter egg
> thread belonged in rec.food.chocolate.)

Probably 'cause he's spending all his time in health.mental.crabasses.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds