Re: site layout

Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
In reply to Your message dated Friday, March 14, 2008, 05:24:43,

>> is it possible to control css with php

> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.

> The main question being - why?

In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.


--
Sincerely Yours, AnrDaemon

Re: site layout

AnrDaemon wrote:
> Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
> In reply to Your message dated Friday, March 14, 2008, 05:24:43,
>
>>> is it possible to control css with php
>
>> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.
>
>> The main question being - why?
>
> In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
> the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
> page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
> single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
> close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
> Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
> to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
> and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.
>
>

And even simpler is to have valid CSS which works in all browsers. Then
you don't need hacks like you are promoting.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: site layout

Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
In reply to Your message dated Thursday, April 3, 2008, 08:44:00,

>>>> is it possible to control css with php
>>
>>> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.
>>
>>> The main question being - why?
>>
>> In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
>> the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
>> page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
>> single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
>> close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
>> Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
>> to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
>> and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.

> And even simpler is to have valid CSS which works in all browsers.

Yes, create a page "Hello, World!" and be happy with it!
Sorry but I need real pages, not dummy examples.

> Then you don't need hacks like you are promoting.

Your words just showing a complete lacks of knowledge in specified situation.
Figure out Yourself, why...


--
Sincerely Yours, AnrDaemon

Re: site layout

AnrDaemon wrote:
> Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
> In reply to Your message dated Thursday, April 3, 2008, 08:44:00,
>
>>>>> is it possible to control css with php
>>>> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.
>>>> The main question being - why?
>>> In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
>>> the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
>>> page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
>>> single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
>>> close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
>>> Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
>>> to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
>>> and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.
>
>> And even simpler is to have valid CSS which works in all browsers.
>
> Yes, create a page "Hello, World!" and be happy with it!
> Sorry but I need real pages, not dummy examples.
>
>> Then you don't need hacks like you are promoting.
>
> Your words just showing a complete lacks of knowledge in specified situation.
> Figure out Yourself, why...
>
>

Not at all. A lot of other webmasters I know also create very
complicated pages all the time which work in all browsers. But it
doesn't surprise me that you are incapable of doing it without your hacks.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: site layout

Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
In reply to Your message dated Thursday, April 3, 2008, 16:08:49,

>>>>>> is it possible to control css with php
>>>>> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.
>>>>> The main question being - why?
>>>> In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
>>>> the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
>>>> page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
>>>> single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
>>>> close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
>>>> Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
>>>> to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
>>>> and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.
>>
>>> And even simpler is to have valid CSS which works in all browsers.
>>
>> Yes, create a page "Hello, World!" and be happy with it!
>> Sorry but I need real pages, not dummy examples.
>>
>>> Then you don't need hacks like you are promoting.
>>
>> Your words just showing a complete lacks of knowledge in specified situation.
>> Figure out Yourself, why...

> Not at all. A lot of other webmasters I know also create very
> complicated pages all the time which work in all browsers. But it
> doesn't surprise me that you are incapable of doing it without your hacks.

It is good only if browser support that complicated CSS... Sorry Jerry, but
You're lost in Your ideal world. Sad thing is that, reality different from
Your expectations.


--
Sincerely Yours, AnrDaemon

Re: site layout

AnrDaemon wrote:
> Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
> In reply to Your message dated Thursday, April 3, 2008, 16:08:49,
>
>>>>>>> is it possible to control css with php
>>>>>> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.
>>>>>> The main question being - why?
>>>>> In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
>>>>> the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
>>>>> page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
>>>>> single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
>>>>> close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
>>>>> Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
>>>>> to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
>>>>> and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.
>>>> And even simpler is to have valid CSS which works in all browsers.
>>> Yes, create a page "Hello, World!" and be happy with it!
>>> Sorry but I need real pages, not dummy examples.
>>>
>>>> Then you don't need hacks like you are promoting.
>>> Your words just showing a complete lacks of knowledge in specified situation.
>>> Figure out Yourself, why...
>
>> Not at all. A lot of other webmasters I know also create very
>> complicated pages all the time which work in all browsers. But it
>> doesn't surprise me that you are incapable of doing it without your hacks.
>
> It is good only if browser support that complicated CSS... Sorry Jerry, but
> You're lost in Your ideal world. Sad thing is that, reality different from
> Your expectations.
>
>

Yea, anyone can hack together some CSS and make it work half-way. But
it takes a COMPETENT designer to create CSS which produces the desired
results without browser-specific hacks.

So again you show your level of competence.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Re: site layout

Greetings, Jerry Stuckle.
In reply to Your message dated Monday, April 7, 2008, 17:01:35,

>>>>>>>> is it possible to control css with php
>>>>>>> Sure. CSS can be generated with PHP, just like HTML can.
>>>>>>> The main question being - why?
>>>>>> In example, You have 3 browsers (Regular desktop, Mobile client (GPRS-WAP and
>>>>>> the like), specialized in-application browser) what should render the same
>>>>>> page without loosing of readability. Yes, You can send different CSS for every
>>>>>> single one, but maintaining 3 different files isn't easy, if they are so
>>>>>> close and You need to make changes in them all if something goes to change.
>>>>>> Much simpler to have PHP script that acting to serve CSS template and adapt it
>>>>>> to every browser. Even then, with server-side caching it's very fast process,
>>>>>> and with proper headers it will be cached on the client side too.
>>>>> And even simpler is to have valid CSS which works in all browsers.
>>>> Yes, create a page "Hello, World!" and be happy with it!
>>>> Sorry but I need real pages, not dummy examples.
>>>>
>>>>> Then you don't need hacks like you are promoting.
>>>> Your words just showing a complete lacks of knowledge in specified situation.
>>>> Figure out Yourself, why...
>>
>>> Not at all. A lot of other webmasters I know also create very
>>> complicated pages all the time which work in all browsers. But it
>>> doesn't surprise me that you are incapable of doing it without your hacks.
>>
>> It is good only if browser support that complicated CSS... Sorry Jerry, but
>> You're lost in Your ideal world. Sad thing is that, reality different from
>> Your expectations.

> Yea, anyone can hack together some CSS and make it work half-way. But
> it takes a COMPETENT designer to create CSS which produces the desired
> results without browser-specific hacks.

> So again you show your level of competence.

Jerry, where You got Your "hacks"? You start talking about some "hacks" and
I've tried to get You back into conversation but You're driving Your own way.
I think, with Your inability to read this discussion as much counterproductive
as it is offtopic here.


--
Sincerely Yours, AnrDaemon

Re: site layout

Nice fight. Popcorn anyone ?

Seriously stop blabling, you're both right and wrong at the same time imo.

It's obvious and well known that *SOME* things aren't handled the proper
way under IE 6, 7 and Firefox, not to mention other compatibilities
which our customers almost never ask for (Opera, Safari...).
Turnaround are nothing more than hacks, may they be "nicely presented"
(e.g. the "!important" directive) or not ("\*/", "_width"...)

It would be so nice as Jerry said to design in such a way that you don't
need to hack anything at all, still designers often propose complex,
sophisticated templates which you can't always render without a hack,
and you can't change/soften them without having that designer yelling at
you and commanding you to correct it asap... Lucky guys are the ones
that can avoid that and design their CSS properly, not even thinking a
single second about which browser to handle. Though it's not a
competence matter.

Still, I don't like the point about a php CSS. I mean, it may be useful,
but either:
- you have a lot of changes, it's useful but there is definitely a
problem in your design if you need 2 differents CSS for the same
rendering in different browsers
- you have a few changes and a browser specific CSS with a few modified
lines and browser triggers such as "