Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

Hi Guys,

I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.

I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
the html differently depending on browser type.

THE QUESTION:

Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?

THE EXAMPLE URL:

http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l


Many thanks

Andy

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

On Apr 11, 7:33 am, "Andrew Bailey"
wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
> however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.
>
> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
> the html differently depending on browser type.
>
> THE QUESTION:
>
> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>
> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>
> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l

It should be possible to use php on the server rather than javascript.
In fact you often have to do this if you write valid xhtml 1.1 code
and serve it properly as application/xhtml+xml, because a
document.write in javascript is usually not allowed because of xml
considerations. For instance, you might drag in something that is
unclosed with a document.write, and that is a very serious and often
fatal error for xml devices. Thus many xml parsers are set not to
allow document.write. Also with PHP with the GD extension(built in on
the fairly recent versions of php, but must be installed on a few
early versions) you can write code with GD for text on a transparent
background. Thus, for some text tables, you could expand or reduce the
image size for the resulting png or whatever in the usual way.

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"cwdjrxyz" wrote in message
news:bc7e91c5-fc50-4851-87bf-27d32b09f588@m36g2000hse.google groups.com...
> On Apr 11, 7:33 am, "Andrew Bailey"
> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
>> however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.
>>
>> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
>> the html differently depending on browser type.
>>
>> THE QUESTION:
>>
>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>>
>> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>>
>> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>
> It should be possible to use php on the server rather than javascript.
> In fact you often have to do this if you write valid xhtml 1.1 code
> and serve it properly as application/xhtml+xml, because a
> document.write in javascript is usually not allowed because of xml
> considerations. For instance, you might drag in something that is
> unclosed with a document.write, and that is a very serious and often
> fatal error for xml devices. Thus many xml parsers are set not to
> allow document.write. Also with PHP with the GD extension(built in on
> the fairly recent versions of php, but must be installed on a few
> early versions) you can write code with GD for text on a transparent
> background. Thus, for some text tables, you could expand or reduce the
> image size for the resulting png or whatever in the usual way.
>

Thanks for replying, I didn't quite understand what you were saying but I
think the gist is that using document.write for page rendering is bad and
that's exactly what I want to avoid.

Andy

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

On 04/11/08 05:33 am, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
> however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.
>
> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
> the html differently depending on browser type.
>
1. Some people do not have JS enabled. Using JS as an integral part of the
display rendering is therefore a poor plan.

2. There is no such protocol as "javascript:" even though it is
unofficially supported by most browsers. Provide a proper link and use the
"onclick" attribute to service the JS functionality. And again those who
have JS disabled cannot effectively use your site.

3. Browser sniffing is inherently bad. There is almost no reason to write
browser-specific code. Those rare and bizarre cases are due to IE
limitations and can be worked around using IE-specific conditional
statements in the header.

> THE QUESTION:
>
> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>
Yes.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"Jim Moe" wrote in message
news:FJqdnY29j6aOc2LanZ2dnUVZ_sGvnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 04/11/08 05:33 am, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>>
>> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
>> however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.
>>
>> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
>> the html differently depending on browser type.
>>


> 1. Some people do not have JS enabled. Using JS as an integral part of the
> display rendering is therefore a poor plan.
>

Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same effect
WITHOUT javascript.


> 2. There is no such protocol as "javascript:" even though it is
> unofficially supported by most browsers. Provide a proper link and use the
> "onclick" attribute to service the JS functionality. And again those who
> have JS disabled cannot effectively use your site.
>

Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same effect
WITHOUT javascript.


> 3. Browser sniffing is inherently bad. There is almost no reason to write
> browser-specific code. Those rare and bizarre cases are due to IE
> limitations and can be worked around using IE-specific conditional
> statements in the header.

Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same effect
WITHOUT javascript.


>
>> THE QUESTION:
>>
>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>>
> Yes.

Well thanks for that... IDIOT!!!

>
> --
> jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
> (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

On 11 Apr 2008, "Andrew Bailey"
wrote:

> Hi Guys,

What about the gals?

> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
> javascript?
>
> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>
> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l

From viewing your sample page, it is just about the easiest thing in the
world using server-side methods. Here is an _empirical_ php example:

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

On 04/12/08 06:38 am, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
>> 1. Some people do not have JS enabled. Using JS as an integral part of the
>> display rendering is therefore a poor plan.
>
> Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same effect
> WITHOUT javascript.
>
You did not ask about this.
>
>> 2. There is no such protocol as "javascript:" even though it is
>> unofficially supported by most browsers. Provide a proper link and use the
>> "onclick" attribute to service the JS functionality. And again those who
>> have JS disabled cannot effectively use your site.
>
> Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same effect
> WITHOUT javascript.
>
I just showed you how.
>
>> 3. Browser sniffing is inherently bad. There is almost no reason to write
>> browser-specific code. Those rare and bizarre cases are due to IE
>> limitations and can be worked around using IE-specific conditional
>> statements in the header.
>
> Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same effect
> WITHOUT javascript.
>
You did not ask about this.
>
>>> THE QUESTION:
>>>
>>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>>>
>> Yes.
>
> Well thanks for that... IDIOT!!!
>
You asked, I answered. Pardon me for being on point.
You did not provide sufficient (or any, actually) context for a
meaningful answer beyond that it can be done.
There are server-side opions.
There are CSS opions.
Why is a dropdown ( element) insufficient for your design?

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

am 13.04.2008 02:07:43 von Neredbojias

On 12 Apr 2008, Neredbojias
wrote:

>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>> javascript?

Okay, I did a little putzin' with your page. -Didn't check for any extant
errors, but replaced j/s with ss. See it here:

http://www.neredbojias.com/tsttst/expand_ex.php


--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

am 13.04.2008 11:46:40 von Andrew Bailey

"Jim Moe" wrote in message
news:-96dnWVQVtcAkZzVnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 04/12/08 06:38 am, Andrew Bailey wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Some people do not have JS enabled. Using JS as an integral part of
>>> the
>>> display rendering is therefore a poor plan.
>>
>> Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same
>> effect
>> WITHOUT javascript.
>>
> You did not ask about this.
>>
>>> 2. There is no such protocol as "javascript:" even though it is
>>> unofficially supported by most browsers. Provide a proper link and use
>>> the
>>> "onclick" attribute to service the JS functionality. And again those who
>>> have JS disabled cannot effectively use your site.
>>
>> Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same
>> effect
>> WITHOUT javascript.
>>
> I just showed you how.
>>
>>> 3. Browser sniffing is inherently bad. There is almost no reason to
>>> write
>>> browser-specific code. Those rare and bizarre cases are due to IE
>>> limitations and can be worked around using IE-specific conditional
>>> statements in the header.
>>
>> Hello?... yes I AGREE, I'm trying to find a way to achieve the same
>> effect
>> WITHOUT javascript.
>>
> You did not ask about this.
>>
>>>> THE QUESTION:
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>>>> javascript?
>>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>> Well thanks for that... IDIOT!!!
>>
> You asked, I answered. Pardon me for being on point.
> You did not provide sufficient (or any, actually) context for a
> meaningful answer beyond that it can be done.
> There are server-side opions.
> There are CSS opions.
> Why is a dropdown (

element) insufficient for your design?
>
> --
> jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
> (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

Hi Jim,

Apologies for being short with you but from my point of view it really does
look like you either didn't read or don't understand the original post.

here it is again...

Hi Guys,

I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.

I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
the html differently depending on browser type.

THE QUESTION:

Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?

THE EXAMPLE URL:

http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l


Many thanks

Andy



....So I've got some code that works BUT (as in it's a bad thing) it uses
javascript and as my question clearly states, I want to create the same
effect WITHOUT using javascript.

.... I then provide a link to a test url which reiterates the question in
both the content and the code.


The reason why I was short is that the first comment you make is...

>>> 1. Some people do not have JS enabled. Using JS as an integral part of
>>> the
>>> display rendering is therefore a poor plan.

Which is why I do NOT want to use javascript.

Then you say...

>>> 2. There is no such protocol as "javascript:" even though it is
>>> unofficially supported by most browsers. Provide a proper link and use
>>> the
>>> "onclick" attribute to service the JS functionality. And again those who
>>> have JS disabled cannot effectively use your site.

Which refers to using onclick and proper links which has NOTHING to do with
the question (the only onclick / link is a small bit of test code to switch
some content from short to long to demonstrate that my example cell can
expand)... and then you repeat yourself about using javascript like you
almost think I'm saying the opposite of what I am... I DON'T WANT TO USE JS
I WANT TO USE CSS.

Then you say...

>>> 3. Browser sniffing is inherently bad. There is almost no reason to
>>> write
>>> browser-specific code. Those rare and bizarre cases are due to IE
>>> limitations and can be worked around using IE-specific conditional
>>> statements in the header.

Well by this time I'm almost screaming at the screen ;) because again you
appear to think I want browser sniffing and that I want to render
browser-specific html which of course is the total opposite of what I want.


The funny thing is that I thought I might get someone that didn't grasp what
I wanted so I separated the question to make it absolutely clear, like
this....


THE QUESTION:

Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?


.... and you go and answer with "Yes" which to me was just plain stupid and
as unhelpful as anyone could possibly be, so I hope you (and others) can see
why your reply annoyed me.

Anyhoo, sorry for being short with you.


Andy


PS: After I typed this reply I re-read it and it occurred to me that you may
have thought that the question was about how to write "expanding" code when
it's really about "I made these cool transparent cells but they screw up
when you expand them unless you use browser specific code, which I want to
avoid" but that is a long shot as everyone knows that tables expand on their
own without any code.

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"Neredbojias" wrote in
message news:Xns9A7E6C07F653neredbojiasnano@85.214.90.236...
> On 11 Apr 2008, "Andrew Bailey"
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys,
>
> What about the gals?
>
>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>> javascript?
>>
>> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>>
>> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>
> From viewing your sample page, it is just about the easiest thing in the
> world using server-side methods. Here is an _empirical_ php example:
>
>

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"Neredbojias" wrote in
message news:Xns9A7EAE3DC6neredbojiasnano@85.214.90.236...
> On 12 Apr 2008, Neredbojias
> wrote:
>
>>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>>> javascript?
>
> Okay, I did a little putzin' with your page. -Didn't check for any extant
> errors, but replaced j/s with ss. See it here:
>
> http://www.neredbojias.com/tsttst/expand_ex.php
>
>
> --
> Neredbojias
> http://www.neredbojias.com/
> Great sights and sounds


Thanks for looking, coding and replying.

Your example works in FireFox but not in IE7... welcome to THE PROBLEM...
hehe

This is exactly what I came up against, I can write the code using just html
and css to work on EITHER FF or IE but not both!

Close... but no cigar ;)


Thanks for trying though, fancy another attempt?


Andy

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"Andrew Bailey" wrote in message
news:HUILj.54276$Ge4.16487@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
> however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.
>
> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
> the html differently depending on browser type.
>
> THE QUESTION:
>
> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>
> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>
> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>
>
> Many thanks
>
> Andy

Hi Guys & Gals,

I'm rewriting my original post for clarification...

I have coded a transparent table cell using the technique of creating a
container div and then overlaying a transparent div and a content div. This
works fine for static table cells but when the content is expanded (using
whatever method - not important) either the transparency effect is lost or
the content breaks out of the divs.

Now I can get around this side effect by using browser-specific code (see
url) BUT this is not a desirable method as I want to avoid using javascript
for page rendering.

So my question is....

"Is there a way to code a TRANSPARENT cell WITHOUT using browser-specific
code which can expand on the fly without loosing the transparency or
breaking the layout, and if so... how?"

THE EXAMPLE URL:

http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l


Thanks in advance


Andy


GOALS:

1: Table cell background is transparent.
2: Table cell content is non-transparent.
3: Table cell can expand either horizontally and vertically.
4: Table cell does not use javascript to render page.
5: Works in FireFox and Internet Explorer.
6: Does not cause text (or content) to become shifted (blurred). (I saw this
is some of my earlier dev code in IE7).

(New bug discovered)

7: IE7 screws transparency when switching to another tab, staying for more
than 3 seconds then switching back to original tab when I use the css
example code in the non-expanding example cell.

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

On 13 Apr 2008, "Andrew Bailey"
wrote:

>>>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>>>> javascript?
>>
>> Okay, I did a little putzin' with your page. -Didn't check for any
>> extant errors, but replaced j/s with ss. See it here:
>>
>> http://www.neredbojias.com/tsttst/expand_ex.php

> Thanks for looking, coding and replying.
>
> Your example works in FireFox but not in IE7... welcome to THE
> PROBLEM... hehe

Hehehe, IE is always good for a novel challenge.

Try 'er agin:

http://www.neredbojias.com/tsttst/expand_ex.php

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"Neredbojias" wrote in
message news:Xns9A7F2D1529778neredbojiasnano@85.214.90.236...
> On 13 Apr 2008, "Andrew Bailey"
> wrote:
>
>>>>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>>>>> javascript?
>>>
>>> Okay, I did a little putzin' with your page. -Didn't check for any
>>> extant errors, but replaced j/s with ss. See it here:
>>>
>>> http://www.neredbojias.com/tsttst/expand_ex.php
>
>> Thanks for looking, coding and replying.
>>
>> Your example works in FireFox but not in IE7... welcome to THE
>> PROBLEM... hehe
>
> Hehehe, IE is always good for a novel challenge.
>
> Try 'er agin:
>
> http://www.neredbojias.com/tsttst/expand_ex.php
>
> --
> Neredbojias
> http://www.neredbojias.com/
> Great sights and sounds


Hi Neredbojias,

Thanks again for having a go, however you still don't get the cigar, here's
why...

1: You're cheating!!! (gasp), sorry, but your cell does not expand,,, you're
just reloading the same page but using php to alter the content... in effect
you're just displaying my static (non-expanding) cell with two different
version of the content.

2: (Forgivable coz I'm still working on this one). There seems to be an IE7
bug. Visit your test url in IE7, switch to another page on a different tab
for 3 seconds or more then switch back. Notice how the cell is no-longer
transparent?

Fancy another go?

I'm gonna have another attempt this afternoon so let's see who cracks it
first ;)

Cheers

Andy

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"Andrew Bailey" wrote in
news:HUILj.54276$Ge4.16487@newsfe1-win.ntli.net:

> Hi Guys,
>
> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent
> tables, however some of these tables need to be able to expand and
> shrink.
>
> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts
> of the html differently depending on browser type.
>
> THE QUESTION:
>
> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
> javascript?
>
> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>
> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l

If what you are attempting to do is have different content for IE then
other browsers, then the answer may be the use of conditional comments.

Re: Expanding transarent cell without javascript?

"BootNic" wrote in message
news:Xns9A7F90B0EB03DBootNic@bootnic.motzarella.org...
> "Andrew Bailey" wrote in
> news:HUILj.54276$Ge4.16487@newsfe1-win.ntli.net:
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent
>> tables, however some of these tables need to be able to expand and
>> shrink.
>>
>> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts
>> of the html differently depending on browser type.
>>
>> THE QUESTION:
>>
>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without
>> javascript?
>>
>> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>>
>> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>
> If what you are attempting to do is have different content for IE then
> other browsers, then the answer may be the use of conditional comments.
>
>
>

I WIN!!! PROBLEM SOLVED

Hi G&G,

I have solved the problem and hence award myself the cigar ;)


Take a peek...

http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l


Andy






"Andrew Bailey" wrote in message
news:HUILj.54276$Ge4.16487@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent tables,
> however some of these tables need to be able to expand and shrink.
>
> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts of
> the html differently depending on browser type.
>
> THE QUESTION:
>
> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>
> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>
> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>
>
> Many thanks
>
> Andy

Re: I WIN!!! PROBLEM SOLVED

Andrew Bailey wrote:
> Hi G&G,
>
> I have solved the problem and hence award myself the cigar ;)
>
>
> Take a peek...
>
> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Andrew Bailey" wrote in message
> news:HUILj.54276$Ge4.16487@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have developed some code that allows me to create transparent
>> tables, however some of these tables need to be able to expand and
>> shrink.
>>
>> I can do it but it requires javascript to document.write certain parts
>> of the html differently depending on browser type.
>>
>> THE QUESTION:
>>
>> Is it possible to replicate my expanding cell example without javascript?
>>
>> THE EXAMPLE URL:
>>
>> http://www.microbuild.com/microbuild/test/expand_example.htm l
>>

You know smoking is bad for you, well anyway don't puff that cigar yet!
Don't you try your "solution" with JavaScript disabled. I thought no.
Maybe you should see for yourself before you "light up".

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Re: I WIN!!! PROBLEM SOLVED

Hi Jonathon,

I got to rush out so I only had a chance to turn off javascript in FF but
the only thing that didn't work (ref the top finished cell ONLY) was the
expand script which is to be expected.

The whole point of the post is to do with the cell, not the temporary
javascript code that is there just to create some expanding content.

Cheers for looking

Andy


>
> You know smoking is bad for you, well anyway don't puff that cigar yet!
> Don't you try your "solution" with JavaScript disabled. I thought no.
> Maybe you should see for yourself before you "light up".
>
> --
> Take care,
>
> Jonathan
> -------------------
> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Re: I WIN!!! PROBLEM SOLVED

Andrew Bailey wrote:

> I have solved the problem and hence award myself the cigar ;)

"is non-corruptable and does not rely on javascript or css trickery...

Cool eh?."

No.

and when JavaScript is disabled, nothing happens.

Back to the drawing board, bub. I'll take that cigar.

(btw, JavaScript has two capital letters in it.)

--
-bts
-A woman is just a woman, but a good sigline is a smoke!

Re: I WIN!!! PROBLEM SOLVED

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote in message
news:Z7uMj.95180$D_3.11705@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.ne t...
> Andrew Bailey wrote:
>
>> I have solved the problem and hence award myself the cigar ;)
>
> "is non-corruptable and does not rely on javascript or css trickery...
>
> Cool eh?."
>
> No.
>
> and when JavaScript is disabled, nothing happens.
>
> Back to the drawing board, bub. I'll take that cigar.
>
> (btw, JavaScript has two capital letters in it.)
>
> --
> -bts
> -A woman is just a woman, but a good sigline is a smoke!


Hi Beauregard,

The test url does contain some JavaScript but it's only there to provide a
way to expand the content within the test cell so of course it doesn't work
when JS is disabled.

The whole point of the exercise (As I have repeatedly stated) was the
rendering of a table cell with special qualities which I believe I have
done.

To avoid further confusion (I wish), here is the CRITICAL code...

Re: I WIN!!! PROBLEM SOLVED

On Apr 13, 6:40 pm, "Andrew Bailey"
wrote:
> Cheers for looking, now give me my cigar back ;)

All I know is that this thread was so boring I did not jump in even
once and mention Flash...

Ok, well I did now, but that was only to say I didn't. Kind of a
paradox... Did he cut his own hair?

(anyone get that last bit?)