Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

We're looking into building an in-house integrated enterprise system
to manage inventory, work-in-process, and finances, among others. I
am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer) and think
that using the .NET framework would be best.

What programming language is ideal for programming in the .NET
framework, just overall, and what has been people's experiences taking
on a massive project like this?

Right now, we use a java-based application over a SQL Server 2005
database with Tomcat 5.5 and Apache 2.2. It's a good system, but we
need to look into being able to build our own system because the
system we have requires a lot of jury-rigging to integrate with some
of our old applications, and getting programming updates is a slow
process. I would like to get all our functions under one unbrella so
we don't have to deal with multiple applications.

We're trying to find programmers locally (I'm not asking this group
for that, just stating what we are doing in addition to this message)
to do some programming, and I will of course be helping out.

Would the .NET framework be a good platform to work on?

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

"Brent White" wrote in message
news:b9211ad3-0e62-4806-beba-4a2b7e878983@l42g2000hsc.google groups.com...

> We're looking into building an in-house integrated enterprise system
> to manage inventory, work-in-process, and finances, among others.

OK.

>I am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer)

Having VB6 knowledge does not make one somewhat familiar with VB.NET - far
from it...

>and think that using the .NET framework would be best.

OK.

> What programming language is ideal for programming in the .NET framework

In theory, any of them: http://dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspx though C#
and VB.NET are by far the most popular...

> Would the .NET framework be a good platform to work on?

Yes.


--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

"enterprise system" means different things to different people.

I would investigate (this is just an opinion among many).

C#
WCF

http://sholliday.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!A68482B9628A842A!1 58.entry

And check out the Greg Leake videos on channel9.

If you watch the videos...then you might go "Yes, that is what we're looking
for".

...

Do NOT use VB6 to write a new application. Again, my opinion. You need to
be at least at the 2.0/3.0 level or better yet 3.5.

...

I'm stating my opinion. There are others. They will disagree with me
potentially.


The reason I mention C# alongside of WCF, is that in my experience the WCF
examples out there are primarily C#.
I would pick (my opinion) C# anyways......even without WCF.

...

But you should define what ~you~ mean by enterprise application as well.


I'd take a gander here as well:
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/architecture/DudeWheresMyBusin essLogic.aspx


In case you have current developers who love tsql business logic. Again my
opinion. You can form your own.

Good luck!





"Brent White" wrote in message
news:b9211ad3-0e62-4806-beba-4a2b7e878983@l42g2000hsc.google groups.com...
> We're looking into building an in-house integrated enterprise system
> to manage inventory, work-in-process, and finances, among others. I
> am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer) and think
> that using the .NET framework would be best.
>
> What programming language is ideal for programming in the .NET
> framework, just overall, and what has been people's experiences taking
> on a massive project like this?
>
> Right now, we use a java-based application over a SQL Server 2005
> database with Tomcat 5.5 and Apache 2.2. It's a good system, but we
> need to look into being able to build our own system because the
> system we have requires a lot of jury-rigging to integrate with some
> of our old applications, and getting programming updates is a slow
> process. I would like to get all our functions under one unbrella so
> we don't have to deal with multiple applications.
>
> We're trying to find programmers locally (I'm not asking this group
> for that, just stating what we are doing in addition to this message)
> to do some programming, and I will of course be helping out.
>
> Would the .NET framework be a good platform to work on?

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

On Apr 16, 2:41=A0pm, "Mark Rae [MVP]" wrote:
> "Brent White" wrote in message
>
> news:b9211ad3-0e62-4806-beba-4a2b7e878983@l42g2000hsc.google groups.com...
>
> > We're looking into building an in-house integrated enterprise system
> > to manage inventory, work-in-process, and finances, among others.
>
> OK.
>
> >I am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer)
>
> Having VB6 knowledge does not make one somewhat familiar with VB.NET - far=

> from it...
>
I think I may have worded that wrong. I came from VB6 programming and
have dabbled in VB.NET for some small intranet web-based projects,
including an XML handler. It's not that I connect the two (VB6 and
VB.NET), but I use VB.NET instead of C# because of my familiarity with
the VB language. I'd love to get into it more, but I'm learning on
the fly.

I would not be the only programmer doing this type of work, so it
won't all hinge on my knowledge of VB.NET or C#.

> >and think that using the .NET framework would be best.
>
> OK.
>
> > What programming language is ideal for programming in the .NET framework=

>
> In theory, any of them:http://dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspxthough C#
> and VB.NET are by far the most popular...
>
I figured C# would figure into this. From my limited experience with
just plain C (and I do mean VERY limited, inasmuch as I've never
programmed in C++ before), I know a lot of core programs are done in
C. At some point, I wouldn't mind delving into C# personally, but I
wouldn't stake a company on my ability to learn and program in it.
> > Would the .NET framework be a good platform to work on?
>
> Yes.
>
That's what I thought. I know it's a powerful platform and I like
that you can program in multiple languages based on your familiarity
with the underlying language.
> --
> Mark Rae
> ASP.NET MVPhttp://www.markrae.net

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

On Apr 16, 3:01=A0pm, "sloan" wrote:
> "enterprise system" means different things to different people.
>
I don't know if this type of system would really be an "enterprise"
system from a systems design standpoint. We're not that big a
company. My main concern is trying to get all our major functions
under one umbrella, which is not where we are today.

It would include distribution, finances, sales, customer service,
manufacturing/purchasing, and planning. There are a lot of outside
applications that our current system is just not meant to handle, and
it has serious limitations on what you can extend without getting into
the Java and C code behind the application.

> I would investigate (this is just an opinion among many).
>
> C#
> WCF
>
> http://sholliday.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!A68482B9628A842A!1 58.entry
>
> And check out the Greg Leake videos on channel9.
>
> If you watch the videos...then you might go "Yes, that is what we're looki=
ng
> for".
>
> ..
>
> Do NOT use VB6 to write a new application. =A0Again, my opinion. =A0You ne=
ed to
> be at least at the 2.0/3.0 level or better yet 3.5.
>
> ..
No need to worry; I wouldn't use VB6. I shudder to think what kind of
limitations I would have there. I have 3.0 on my development machine.
>
> I'm stating my opinion. =A0There are others. =A0They will disagree with me=

> potentially.
>
Perish the thought (j/k)
> The reason I mention C# alongside of WCF, is that in my experience the WCF=

> examples out there are primarily C#.
> I would pick (my opinion) C# anyways......even without WCF.
>
> ..
>
> But you should define what ~you~ mean by enterprise application as well.
>
> I'd take a gander here as well:http://www.codeproject.com/KB/architecture/=
DudeWheresMyBusinessLogic....
>
> In case you have current developers who love tsql business logic. =A0Again=
my
> opinion. =A0You can form your own.

I'm not certified in T-SQL, no MVP or MCDBA for me (yet), but I do
have a working knowledge of T-SQL.

Let me look into those websites you gave me and go from there.
>
> Good luck!
>
Thank you, Mark and sloan. Maybe we can get some ideas from there and
talking to some other people as well.
> "Brent White" wrote in message
>
> news:b9211ad3-0e62-4806-beba-4a2b7e878983@l42g2000hsc.google groups.com...
>
>
>
> > We're looking into building an in-house integrated enterprise system
> > to manage inventory, work-in-process, and finances, among others. =A0I
> > am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer) and think
> > that using the .NET framework would be best.
>
> > What programming language is ideal for programming in the .NET
> > framework, just overall, and what has been people's experiences taking
> > on a massive project like this?
>
> > Right now, we use a java-based application over a SQL Server 2005
> > database with Tomcat 5.5 and Apache 2.2. =A0It's a good system, but we
> > need to look into being able to build our own system because the
> > system we have requires a lot of jury-rigging to integrate with some
> > of our old applications, and getting programming updates is a slow
> > process. =A0I would like to get all our functions under one unbrella so
> > we don't have to deal with multiple applications.
>
> > We're trying to find programmers locally (I'm not asking this group
> > for that, just stating what we are doing in addition to this message)
> > to do some programming, and I will of course be helping out.
>
> > Would the .NET framework be a good platform to work on?- Hide quoted tex=
t -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

"Brent White" wrote in message
news:2f63ecdd-3f0e-4053-a345-06fed90aacca@f63g2000hsf.google groups.com...

>> >I am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer)
>>
>> Having VB6 knowledge does not make one somewhat familiar with VB.NET -
>> far
>> from it...
>>
> I think I may have worded that wrong. I came from VB6 programming and
> have dabbled in VB.NET for some small intranet web-based projects,
> including an XML handler. It's not that I connect the two (VB6 and
> VB.NET), but I use VB.NET instead of C# because of my familiarity with
> the VB language.

There's a school of thought which says that anyone coming to .NET who is
familiar with VB6 should choose any .NET programming language *other than*
VB.NET precisely so that they don't bring any of the VB6 baggage with
them... Over the years I've seen some absolutely horrific VB.NET coding
where people have, more or less, just taken VB6 code and dumped it into
VB.NET - I've even seen code which uses "On Error Goto..." syntax instead of
Try...Catch...Finally!

There's another school of thought which says that anyone who's ever done any
web development will almost certainly have used JavaScript to a greater or
lesser extent so will already be familiar with some of the basic C#
syntax...

That said, the choice of VB.NET or C# is, to all intents and purposes, a
totally pointless and irrelevant argument. It is the .NET Framework itself
which represents the learning curve...

> I know a lot of core programs are done in C.

In fact, the vast majority of the .NET Framework itself is written in C#:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=683809 &SiteID=1


--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

...
I'd recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Application-Frameworks-NET- Chen/dp/1590592883


I wouldn't suggest if you're using DotNet 2.0/3.0 or beyond..... to
necessarily implement all of his code (as in the code is very 1.1 based),
but the IDEAS he puts forth are useful no matter what language or version
you're using.


As a colleague of mine has in his email signature:
codeReuse != ( Shortcut.CtrlC & Shortcut.CtrlV )

.....................

WCF allows you to write one code base, and then "expose" it as webservices,
..net remoting'ish or msmq'ish services.
So I'd still investigate it, esp in a heterogeneous environment.

...

Good luck:


You can take a look here:
http://sholliday.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!A68482B9628A842A!1 40.entry
and also find the 1.1 version of that blog entry as well.
http://sholliday.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!A68482B9628A842A!1 39.entry
Find the MS article I reference also "bird's eye view".







"Brent White" wrote in message
news:e68acd41-f0b5-4efd-8d09-44876bd7babd@m36g2000hse.google groups.com...
On Apr 16, 3:01 pm, "sloan" wrote:
> "enterprise system" means different things to different people.
>
I don't know if this type of system would really be an "enterprise"
system from a systems design standpoint. We're not that big a
company. My main concern is trying to get all our major functions
under one umbrella, which is not where we are today.

It would include distribution, finances, sales, customer service,
manufacturing/purchasing, and planning. There are a lot of outside
applications that our current system is just not meant to handle, and
it has serious limitations on what you can extend without getting into
the Java and C code behind the application.

> I would investigate (this is just an opinion among many).
>
> C#
> WCF
>
> http://sholliday.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!A68482B9628A842A!1 58.entry
>
> And check out the Greg Leake videos on channel9.
>
> If you watch the videos...then you might go "Yes, that is what we're
> looking
> for".
>
> ..
>
> Do NOT use VB6 to write a new application. Again, my opinion. You need to
> be at least at the 2.0/3.0 level or better yet 3.5.
>
> ..
No need to worry; I wouldn't use VB6. I shudder to think what kind of
limitations I would have there. I have 3.0 on my development machine.
>
> I'm stating my opinion. There are others. They will disagree with me
> potentially.
>
Perish the thought (j/k)
> The reason I mention C# alongside of WCF, is that in my experience the WCF
> examples out there are primarily C#.
> I would pick (my opinion) C# anyways......even without WCF.
>
> ..
>
> But you should define what ~you~ mean by enterprise application as well.
>
> I'd take a gander here as
> well:http://www.codeproject.com/KB/architecture/DudeWheresMy BusinessLogic....
>
> In case you have current developers who love tsql business logic. Again my
> opinion. You can form your own.

I'm not certified in T-SQL, no MVP or MCDBA for me (yet), but I do
have a working knowledge of T-SQL.

Let me look into those websites you gave me and go from there.
>
> Good luck!
>
Thank you, Mark and sloan. Maybe we can get some ideas from there and
talking to some other people as well.
> "Brent White" wrote in message
>
> news:b9211ad3-0e62-4806-beba-4a2b7e878983@l42g2000hsc.google groups.com...
>
>
>
> > We're looking into building an in-house integrated enterprise system
> > to manage inventory, work-in-process, and finances, among others. I
> > am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer) and think
> > that using the .NET framework would be best.
>
> > What programming language is ideal for programming in the .NET
> > framework, just overall, and what has been people's experiences taking
> > on a massive project like this?
>
> > Right now, we use a java-based application over a SQL Server 2005
> > database with Tomcat 5.5 and Apache 2.2. It's a good system, but we
> > need to look into being able to build our own system because the
> > system we have requires a lot of jury-rigging to integrate with some
> > of our old applications, and getting programming updates is a slow
> > process. I would like to get all our functions under one unbrella so
> > we don't have to deal with multiple applications.
>
> > We're trying to find programmers locally (I'm not asking this group
> > for that, just stating what we are doing in addition to this message)
> > to do some programming, and I will of course be helping out.
>
> > Would the .NET framework be a good platform to work on?- Hide quoted
> > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: Looking for some ideas on a brand new application system

On Apr 17, 12:32=A0pm, "Mark Rae [MVP]" wrote:
> "Brent White" wrote in message
>
> news:2f63ecdd-3f0e-4053-a345-06fed90aacca@f63g2000hsf.google groups.com...
>
> >> >I am somewhat familiar with VB.NET (veteran VB 6 programmer)
>
> >> Having VB6 knowledge does not make one somewhat familiar with VB.NET -
> >> far
> >> from it...
>
> > I think I may have worded that wrong. =A0I came from VB6 programming and=

> > have dabbled in VB.NET for some small intranet web-based projects,
> > including an XML handler. =A0It's not that I connect the two (VB6 and
> > VB.NET), but I use VB.NET instead of C# because of my familiarity with
> > the VB language.
>
> There's a school of thought which says that anyone coming to .NET who is
> familiar with VB6 should choose any .NET programming language *other than*=

> VB.NET precisely so that they don't bring any of the VB6 baggage with
> them... Over the years I've seen some absolutely horrific VB.NET coding
> where people have, more or less, just taken VB6 code and dumped it into
> VB.NET - I've even seen code which uses "On Error Goto..." syntax instead =
of
> Try...Catch...Finally!
>
> There's another school of thought which says that anyone who's ever done a=
ny
> web development will almost certainly have used JavaScript to a greater or=

> lesser extent so will already be familiar with some of the basic C#
> syntax...
>
> That said, the choice of VB.NET or C# is, to all intents and purposes, a
> totally pointless and irrelevant argument. It is the .NET Framework itself=

> which represents the learning curve...
>
> > I know a lot of core programs are done in C.
>
> In fact, the vast majority of the .NET Framework itself is written in C#:h=
ttp://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3D68380 9&SiteID=3D1
>
For a language of its relative power, C#, which I am teaching myself
now, seems to be a relatively easy to understand language. I got the
C# 2005 Step By Step book from Microsoft Press, along with the VB 2005
Step By Step book, and started learning the structure of C#, which
doesn't seem, at least right now, all that different from C++. Since
I'm having to learn a .NET language anyway, I might start learning in
C#. I only gained a very rudimentary understanding of C in college,
and that was just to do some projects in my Computer Engineering
studies (we used Sunsoft SPARCStations with Solaris in the labs). I
never learned C++'s intricacies or how to do data structures in C++
(wish I had taken the time to learn; this one programming course had
us do these huge projects in...are you ready for this...Modula/2, and
there were no books for it by then; the prof said we could do them in C
++, and I, like a fool, didn't take him up on it, so I wound up with a
C--ironically enough--for the course).
> --
> Mark Rae
> ASP.NET MVPhttp://www.markrae.net