Internal PHP caching methodology

Hello,

Call me a dreamer...but I got to ask.

Is there any software for helping speed up PHP by utilizing internal PHP
caching?

I am not talking about the external php cache/header control. Smarty
caching doesn't give me the control I need either.

I would like to cache to a finer level than page by page, but rather on
a module by module basis. Each of my pages contains a subset of
modules. The content of these modules changes based upon certain
criteria (link, time, session data, but is sometimes static across the
site). I would like to be able to cache individual "modules"
(preferably based upon frequency and time to generate).

I am trying to develop a way to do this, but I have to think a brighter
mind has come before me and hopefully arrived at a solution.

As always any help/thoughts are much appreciated, except for that one
guy's comments (you all know who I am talking) ~ jk ;)

Thanks,
`

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Re: Internal PHP caching methodology

On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Daniel Kolbo wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Call me a dreamer...but I got to ask.
>
> Is there any software for helping speed up PHP by utilizing internal
> PHP
> caching?
>
> I am not talking about the external php cache/header control. Smarty
> caching doesn't give me the control I need either.
>
> I would like to cache to a finer level than page by page, but rather
> on
> a module by module basis. Each of my pages contains a subset of
> modules. The content of these modules changes based upon certain
> criteria (link, time, session data, but is sometimes static across the
> site). I would like to be able to cache individual "modules"
> (preferably based upon frequency and time to generate).
>
> I am trying to develop a way to do this, but I have to think a
> brighter
> mind has come before me and hopefully arrived at a solution.
>
> As always any help/thoughts are much appreciated, except for that one
> guy's comments (you all know who I am talking) ~ jk ;)
>
> Thanks,
> `
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>

Memcache
Apc
Zend_cache

Google php caching

Bastien

Sent from my iPod

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Re: Internal PHP caching methodology

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Kolbo wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Call me a dreamer...but I got to ask.
>
> Is there any software for helping speed up PHP by utilizing internal PHP
> caching?
>
> I am not talking about the external php cache/header control.  Smart=
y
> caching doesn't give me the control I need either.
>
> I would like to cache to a finer level than page by page, but rather on
> a module by module basis.  Each of my pages contains a subset of
> modules.  The content of these modules changes based upon certain
> criteria (link, time, session data, but is sometimes static across the
> site).  I would like to be able to cache individual "modules"
> (preferably based upon frequency and time to generate).
>
> I am trying to develop a way to do this, but I have to think a brighter
> mind has come before me and hopefully arrived at a solution.
>
> As always any help/thoughts are much appreciated, except for that one
> guy's comments (you all know who I am talking) ~ jk ;)
>
> Thanks,
> `
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

Have you actually profiled your code to see where the pain points are
vs saying 'module?' Are you also running an opcode cache? From there
you can use data, block, or full page caching. Finally you can figure
out if you want to store it in flat files or memory. I'd start by
knowing what is actually the slow part using Xdebug and nail a few
down.

There is no end all solution. Some pages really don't have a lot
going on and are hardly updated so full page is fine. Others might
have something that is hard to generate on a sidebar, so block caching
would be more suitable for that. As previously mentioned, Zend_Cache
is up to the task. There is also a PEAR package called Cache_Lite
which would work to if you're interested in file based caching.

--=20
http://www.ericbutera.us/

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Re: Internal PHP caching methodology

Eric Butera wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Kolbo wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Call me a dreamer...but I got to ask.
>>
>> Is there any software for helping speed up PHP by utilizing internal PHP
>> caching?
>>
>> I am not talking about the external php cache/header control. Smarty
>> caching doesn't give me the control I need either.
>>
>> I would like to cache to a finer level than page by page, but rather on
>> a module by module basis. Each of my pages contains a subset of
>> modules. The content of these modules changes based upon certain
>> criteria (link, time, session data, but is sometimes static across the
>> site). I would like to be able to cache individual "modules"
>> (preferably based upon frequency and time to generate).
>>
>> I am trying to develop a way to do this, but I have to think a brighter
>> mind has come before me and hopefully arrived at a solution.
>>
>> As always any help/thoughts are much appreciated, except for that one
>> guy's comments (you all know who I am talking) ~ jk ;)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `
>>
>> --
>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>>
>
> Have you actually profiled your code to see where the pain points are
> vs saying 'module?' Are you also running an opcode cache? From there
> you can use data, block, or full page caching. Finally you can figure
> out if you want to store it in flat files or memory. I'd start by
> knowing what is actually the slow part using Xdebug and nail a few
> down.
>
> There is no end all solution. Some pages really don't have a lot
> going on and are hardly updated so full page is fine. Others might
> have something that is hard to generate on a sidebar, so block caching
> would be more suitable for that. As previously mentioned, Zend_Cache
> is up to the task. There is also a PEAR package called Cache_Lite
> which would work to if you're interested in file based caching.
>

So dreams do come true...

Thank you for the wonderful insight. I've been reading about the
memcached and Xdebug and Zend_Cache. I've got lots to learn, but it is
exactly the type of material i was trying to find.

I am not currently running an opcode cache. I may be doing "premature
optimization", but i want to design the entire system intelligently from
the get go rather than having to rebuild later. you know 'work smarter
not harder'....

Is it possible to run xdebug on a virtual host server on which i do not
have shell access? I can modify php.ini via cgi, but I don't know if
i'd be able to view the results of xdebug on the machine. Your opinion
would be appreciated.

Thanks so much, i feel like i've just been shown a whole new world.
dK
`


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Re: Internal PHP caching methodology

Daniel Kolbo wrote:
> Eric Butera wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Kolbo wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Call me a dreamer...but I got to ask.
>>>
>>> Is there any software for helping speed up PHP by utilizing internal PHP
>>> caching?
>>>
>>> I am not talking about the external php cache/header control. Smarty
>>> caching doesn't give me the control I need either.
>>>
>>> I would like to cache to a finer level than page by page, but rather on
>>> a module by module basis. Each of my pages contains a subset of
>>> modules. The content of these modules changes based upon certain
>>> criteria (link, time, session data, but is sometimes static across the
>>> site). I would like to be able to cache individual "modules"
>>> (preferably based upon frequency and time to generate).
>>>
>>> I am trying to develop a way to do this, but I have to think a brighter
>>> mind has come before me and hopefully arrived at a solution.
>>>
>>> As always any help/thoughts are much appreciated, except for that one
>>> guy's comments (you all know who I am talking) ~ jk ;)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> `
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>>
>> Have you actually profiled your code to see where the pain points are
>> vs saying 'module?' Are you also running an opcode cache? From there
>> you can use data, block, or full page caching. Finally you can figure
>> out if you want to store it in flat files or memory. I'd start by
>> knowing what is actually the slow part using Xdebug and nail a few
>> down.
>>
>> There is no end all solution. Some pages really don't have a lot
>> going on and are hardly updated so full page is fine. Others might
>> have something that is hard to generate on a sidebar, so block caching
>> would be more suitable for that. As previously mentioned, Zend_Cache
>> is up to the task. There is also a PEAR package called Cache_Lite
>> which would work to if you're interested in file based caching.
>>
>
> So dreams do come true...
>
> Thank you for the wonderful insight. I've been reading about the
> memcached and Xdebug and Zend_Cache. I've got lots to learn, but it is
> exactly the type of material i was trying to find.
>
> I am not currently running an opcode cache. I may be doing "premature
> optimization", but i want to design the entire system intelligently from
> the get go rather than having to rebuild later. you know 'work smarter
> not harder'....
>
> Is it possible to run xdebug on a virtual host server on which i do not
> have shell access? I can modify php.ini via cgi, but I don't know if
> i'd be able to view the results of xdebug on the machine. Your opinion
> would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks so much, i feel like i've just been shown a whole new world.
> dK
> `

I still have to (fully) rtfm. But i was wondering if the following
scenario(s) is(are) possible.

-Does memcached store the same data under different keys in the same spot?

From my reading so far, i do not think so.
My understanding is that currently memcached goes like as follows:
key->key_hash->server->data_value
but this approach could conceivably store the same data_value under
different keys (thus consuming unneeded memory)

What i'd like it to do is the following:
key->key_hash->server->data_hash->server->data_value

That is, each key has the data_hash as its value. Then one uses this
data_hash as the new key which has the data_value as its value.
This way the only data that is replicated would be the relatively small
data_hash, but the (larger) data itself would not be replicated.

This would allow for the user to use different keys to access the same
data. This would be needed when seemingly different keys happen to
share the same data, but would be too costly to recognize, predict, and
accommodate such associations

This doubles the number of calls to the server, but could conceivable
save a great deal of memory for more cached objects. What would be even
slicker is if the programmer could use either approach within the same
script. For example, if the programmer new for (almost) certain that a
certain key would never have the same data signature as any other key,
she could then use the original method and save on the overhead of
storing key_hash to data_hashes pairs.

Also, I really like the idea behind zend_cache that I can use memcache/d
as the backend. That's pretty modular!

I have three direct questions:
1) Is the above approach wise or have i violated some basic caching
principle?

2) Is the php memcache/memcached class extendable (so that I can
implement 1 above)?

3) If 2) is yes, can I use this extendable class as the backend for
zend_cache?

Thanks,
dK
`


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Re: Internal PHP caching methodology

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 7:14 AM, Daniel Kolbo wrote:
> Daniel Kolbo wrote:
>> Eric Butera wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Kolbo wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Call me a dreamer...but I got to ask.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any software for helping speed up PHP by utilizing internal P=
HP
>>>> caching?
>>>>
>>>> I am not talking about the external php cache/header control.  Sm=
arty
>>>> caching doesn't give me the control I need either.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to cache to a finer level than page by page, but rather o=
n
>>>> a module by module basis.  Each of my pages contains a subset of
>>>> modules.  The content of these modules changes based upon certain
>>>> criteria (link, time, session data, but is sometimes static across the
>>>> site).  I would like to be able to cache individual "modules"
>>>> (preferably based upon frequency and time to generate).
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to develop a way to do this, but I have to think a brighte=
r
>>>> mind has come before me and hopefully arrived at a solution.
>>>>
>>>> As always any help/thoughts are much appreciated, except for that one
>>>> guy's comments (you all know who I am talking) ~ jk ;)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> `
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Have you actually profiled your code to see where the pain points are
>>> vs saying 'module?'  Are you also running an opcode cache?  F=
rom there
>>> you can use data, block, or full page caching.  Finally you can fi=
gure
>>> out if you want to store it in flat files or memory.  I'd start by
>>> knowing what is actually the slow part using Xdebug and nail a few
>>> down.
>>>
>>> There is no end all solution.  Some pages really don't have a lot
>>> going on and are hardly updated so full page is fine.  Others migh=
t
>>> have something that is hard to generate on a sidebar, so block caching
>>> would be more suitable for that.  As previously mentioned, Zend_Ca=
che
>>> is up to the task.  There is also a PEAR package called Cache_Lite
>>> which would work to if you're interested in file based caching.
>>>
>>
>> So dreams do come true...
>>
>> Thank you for the wonderful insight.  I've been reading about the
>> memcached and Xdebug and Zend_Cache.  I've got lots to learn, but i=
t is
>> exactly the type of material i was trying to find.
>>
>> I am not currently running an opcode cache.  I may be doing "premat=
ure
>> optimization", but i want to design the entire system intelligently from
>> the get go rather than having to rebuild later.  you know 'work sma=
rter
>> not harder'....
>>
>> Is it possible to run xdebug on a virtual host server on which i do not
>> have shell access?  I can modify php.ini via cgi, but I don't know =
if
>> i'd be able to view the results of xdebug on the machine.  Your opi=
nion
>> would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks so much, i feel like i've just been shown a whole new world.
>> dK
>> `
>
> I still have to (fully) rtfm.  But i was wondering if the following
> scenario(s) is(are) possible.
>
> -Does memcached store the same data under different keys in the same spot=
?
>
> From my reading so far, i do not think so.
> My understanding is that currently memcached goes like as follows:
> key->key_hash->server->data_value
> but this approach could conceivably store the same data_value under
> different keys (thus consuming unneeded memory)
>
> What i'd like it to do is the following:
> key->key_hash->server->data_hash->server->data_value
>
> That is, each key has the data_hash as its value.  Then one uses thi=
s
> data_hash as the new key which has the data_value as its value.
> This way the only data that is replicated would be the relatively small
> data_hash, but the (larger) data itself would not be replicated.
>
> This would allow for the user to use different keys to access the same
> data.  This would be needed when seemingly different keys happen to
> share the same data, but would be too costly to recognize, predict, and
> accommodate such associations
>
> This doubles the number of calls to the server, but could conceivable
> save a great deal of memory for more cached objects.  What would be =
even
> slicker is if the programmer could use either approach within the same
> script.  For example, if the programmer new for (almost) certain tha=
t a
> certain key would never have the same data signature as any other key,
> she could then use the original method and save on the overhead of
> storing key_hash to data_hashes pairs.
>
> Also, I really like the idea behind zend_cache that I can use memcache/d
> as the backend.  That's pretty modular!
>
> I have three direct questions:
> 1) Is the above approach wise or have i violated some basic caching
> principle?
>
> 2) Is the php memcache/memcached class extendable (so that I can
> implement 1 above)?
>
> 3) If 2) is yes, can I use this extendable class as the backend for
> zend_cache?
>
> Thanks,
> dK
> `
>
>

The fact you said you haven't used Xdebug or have an opcode cache
means you're starting from the wrong end. I'm pretty sure using
Zend_Cache with a flatfile backend would be more than adequate for
your needs.

As for your questions, if you think that is the way to use it that
would benefit your program the best, then go ahead. I use caching
inside method calls so that I can cache the result of my expensive
method call and it is transparent to the rest of the app.

--=20
http://www.ericbutera.us/

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