Font problem

am 28.07.2009 12:07:24 von Dusan Novakovic

Hi,

Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font and
that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open page
in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser doesn't
recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
:-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's very
urgent....

Thanks,
Dusan

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Re: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 12:13:27 von Ashley Sheridan

--=-XNTlacO7SlBAC5/d1b0z
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 12:07 +0200, DuÅ¡an NovakoviÄ wrote:

> Hi,
>=20
> Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
> side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
> client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font and
> that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open page
> in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser doesn't
> recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
> :-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's very
> urgent....
>=20
> Thanks,
> Dusan
>=20
> --=20
> made by Dusan
>=20

Basically that's a big no. At the moment, there is no cross-browser way
to determine if a font is installed on an end system. The best you can
do is to use either a graphic in-place of the text, or use something
like siFr. Both of these methods are only suitable for headings though.

Have you looked at what standard fonts are available to you? The list at
http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html is quite good at
showing these. You can use CSS to give fallback fonts in order of what
you prefer.

There are meant to be plans on how to handle these sorts of situations
in CSS3 though, but you may have to wait a year for the browsers to
adopt!

Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk

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Re: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 15:45:49 von rscrawford

2009/7/28 DuÅ¡an NovakoviÄ :
> Hi,
>
> Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
> side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
> client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font and
> that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open page
> in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser doesn't
> recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
> :-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's very
> urgent....

Not really, no. The choice of font is up to the user's browser.

However, you can, with CSS, set some basic parameters. If, say, you
want to ensure that the users sees a sans-serif font on their browser,
you can use:

font-family: arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif

This basically says, ensure that the browser uses arial; if arial
isn't available, use helvetica; if helvetica isn't available, use
verdana; and if verdana isn't available, use whatever sans-serif font
the user has installed on their computer.

Look up the font-family attribute for CSS on the web. There's too much
detail to go into and this is a PHP list, not a CSS list.

--=20
Richard S. Crawford (rscrawford@mossroot.com)
http://www.mossroot.com
Publisher and Editor in Chief, Daikaijuzine (http://www.daikaijuzine.com)

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Re: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 17:52:20 von List Manager

RE: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 19:51:53 von HallMarc Websites

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Lucas [mailto:lists@cmsws.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:52 AM
> To: DuÅ¡an NovakoviÄ
> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] Font problem
>=20
> DuÅ¡an NovakoviÄ wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
> > side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
> > client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font and
> > that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open
> page
> > in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser doesn't
> > recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
> > :-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's =
very
> > urgent....
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dusan
> >
>=20
> It is possible, but you have to use the proper type of font file.
>=20
> It is usually referred to as "Font Embedding" or "Embedding Fonts"
> using CSS
>=20
> here are a few pages that show examples of how to do this with CSS
>=20
> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssatten
> http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-37552. html
> http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/fdc-varia/font-embed ding.htm
> http://www.cameraontheroad.com/index.php?p=3D524
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20
>=20
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 4285 (20090728) __________
>=20
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>=20
> http://www.eset.com
>=20

Jim has listed some nice alternatives, however, they are limited in =
their scope. I will point you to a solution called Cufon. This by far =
the best I have found to date (IMHO). This is a JavaScript solution. It =
will render ANY ttf or rtf font. The common issue you run into is the =
legal issue. Most of the fonts we want to use need to be purchased by =
the end user. The developers of Cufon are in talks with the Font =
Foundries to find a solution that will protect the font from being =
stolen. As of this writing the Foundries fear that the JavaScript file =
that is produced from the original fonts could be reverse engineered and =
give the font away for free. I have tried to put this file outside of =
the root folder of the site and found that I cannot call it. I haven't =
spent too much time on this yet. I'm sure there is a way, I just haven't =
found it yet.

Here is the link to Cufon
http://wiki.github.com/sorccu/cufon/about
the javascript generator can be found here=20
http://cufon.shoqolate.com/generate/

One more thing and I can't stress this enough - USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! =
In the US Intellectual Property Theft is one of those laws whereby you =
are guilty until proven innocent ad each incident can cost you $100k!

[HallMarc Websites]=20
=20

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus =
signature database 4286 (20090728) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com
=20

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Re: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 20:32:26 von Michael Peters

DuÅ¡an NovakoviÄ wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
> side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
> client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font and
> that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open page
> in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser doesn't
> recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
> :-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's very
> urgent....
>
> Thanks,
> Dusan
>

Stick to either core web or adobe base35 and most Linux distributions
will handle it just fine.

Embedding fonts only works in Linux with the latest version of Firefox
(3.5) and I'm not sure that embedding fonts the way that works in FF 3.5
will work with Internet Exploder.

Example of how to set up a proper css for best compatability:

font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;

Linux will map helvetica to the proper URW clone if helvetica is not
installed. Mac I believe has helvetica. Windows will either map
helvetica to arial (a helvetica clone) or skip the helvetica declaration
and go straight to arial.

Systems that don't have helvetica or arial or are configured to use a
suitable clone will use the systems default sans-serif font.

You can not do web design dependent upon a particular font being
installed. Even with embedded fonts, the end user may not allow
installation of embedded fonts.

If you really need a particular font, use PDF and embed the font in the
PDF - or (such as in the case of classical languages with special fonts)
give a link to where a suitable font can be downloaded.

Almost desktop Linux systems have equivalents to the Adobe Base 35 fonts
(or in my case have both type 1 and ttf variants of the Adobe Base 35
fonts installed) and many Desktop Linux systems have the Microsoft "Core
Web" fonts installed - but don't use Comic Sans MS as some characters
(such as the lower case m) do not properly render in Linux.

If embedding fonts, make sure you have license to do so.

The bitsream vera fonts are open source, you can embed them - and most
linux systems have them installed and won't need to use embedded versions.

http://www.bitstream.com/font_rendering/products/dev_fonts/v era.html

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Re: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 20:33:19 von Ashley Sheridan

On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 08:52 -0700, Jim Lucas wrote:
> DuÅ¡an NovakoviÄ wrote:
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
> > side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
> > client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font and
> > that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open page
> > in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser doesn't
> > recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
> > :-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's very
> > urgent....
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > Dusan
> >=20
>=20
> It is possible, but you have to use the proper type of font file.
>=20
> It is usually referred to as "Font Embedding" or "Embedding Fonts" using =
CSS
>=20
> here are a few pages that show examples of how to do this with CSS
>=20
> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssatten
> http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-37552. html
> http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/fdc-varia/font-embed ding.htm
> http://www.cameraontheroad.com/index.php?p=3D524
>=20
>=20
>=20

There are issues with those you mentioned.

The first uses images instead of text, which can be made accessible with
the CSS method they use, but it's no good for a whole page of text, and
only small bits and headings.

The second, well, browser support just isn't up to scratch yet. IE has
its own font format to use, not everone has upgraded to the latest
Firefox, Chrome doesn't even support it yet, etc. Same goes for the
third way, which seems to be a cross of 1 & 2.

Basically, there is no way to guarantee what it will look like, which is
annoying really. Wait a bit until all the browsers support it and are in
common use.

Thanks
Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk

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RE: Font problem

am 28.07.2009 20:46:42 von Bob McConnell

From: Ashley Sheridan
> On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 08:52 -0700, Jim Lucas wrote:
>> Du=B9an Novakovi=E6 wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >=20
>> > Is there a possibility that if there is no font installed on client
>> > side somehow browser finds it and redirect that font form server to
>> > client machine. For example: I have site that use Microsoft font =
and
>> > that font is not available on Linux distributions. So when u open =
page
>> > in FF on some Linux u get some default font (because browser =
doesn't
>> > recognize that font). I hope that I've managed to explane a problem
>> > :-) Does anyone has any solution for this problem??? Please it's =
very
>> > urgent....
>>=20
>> It is possible, but you have to use the proper type of font file.
>>=20
>> It is usually referred to as "Font Embedding" or "Embedding Fonts" =
using CSS
>>=20
> Basically, there is no way to guarantee what it will look like, which =
is
> annoying really. Wait a bit until all the browsers support it and are =
in
> common use.

If you really need this level of control HTML is the wrong medium. You =
should be using PDF, page sized images or other locked down formats. =
HTML was designed so the browser and user have ultimate control over =
layout, appearance, fonts, colors and other details. Nothing you can do =
should ever make any difference there.

Bob McConnell

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RE: Font problem {CORRECTION}

am 29.07.2009 02:42:07 von HallMarc Websites

>=20
> Jim has listed some nice alternatives, however, they are limited in
> their scope. I will point you to a solution called Cufon. This by far
> the best I have found to date (IMHO). This is a JavaScript solution. =
It
> will render ANY ttf or rtf font. The common issue you run into is the
> legal issue. Most of the fonts we want to use need to be purchased by
> the end user. The developers of Cufon are in talks with the Font
> Foundries to find a solution that will protect the font from being
> stolen. As of this writing the Foundries fear that the JavaScript file
> that is produced from the original fonts could be reverse engineered
> and give the font away for free. I have tried to put this file outside
> of the root folder of the site and found that I cannot call it. I
> haven't spent too much time on this yet. I'm sure there is a way, I
> just haven't found it yet.
>=20
> Here is the link to Cufon
> http://wiki.github.com/sorccu/cufon/about
> the javascript generator can be found here
> http://cufon.shoqolate.com/generate/
>=20
> One more thing and I can't stress this enough - USE AT YOUR OWN =
RISK!!!
> In the US Intellectual Property Theft is one of those laws whereby you
> are guilty until proven innocent ad each incident can cost you $100k!
>=20
> [HallMarc Websites]
>=20
>=20

Argh! I see a typo that I have no excuses for. It should read "any ttf =
or otf" not rtf. Sorry bout that=20

[HallMarc Websites]=20
=20

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus =
signature database 4286 (20090728) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com
=20

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