[OT] Good Perl ISP"s

Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up with Perl? Right =
now we're with A2 Hosting and they're still stuck at version 5.8.8, and =
they refuse to upgrade because, and I quote,=20

"we unfortunately cannot perform a global upgrade on perl as it may =
cause severe problems with other users and applications across the board =
at this time."

There has to be a company out there that doesn't treat Perl like =
a second class citizen.

Thanks,
Marc=

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

2011/5/11 :
>        Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up=
with Perl?  Right now we're with A2 Hosting and they're still stuck a=
t version 5.8.8, and they refuse to upgrade because, and I quote,
>

Using VPS you can install any version of Perl.
Curently I am using two VPS, one is Linode, another is namecheap's.
Or try Amoson AMS for a year free.


--=20
Jeff Pang
www.DNSbed.com

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 10:35 PM, wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up with Perl? =
=A0Right now we're with A2 Hosting and they're still stuck at version 5.8.8=
, and they refuse to upgrade because, and I quote,
>
> "we unfortunately cannot perform a global upgrade on perl as it may cause=
severe problems with other users and applications across the board at this=
time."
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0There has to be a company out there that doesn't treat Per=
l like a second class citizen.
>

this doesn't give your grievance any less credence. however, iirc, the
last stable version of debian and rhel/cent were using 5.8. both
distros have sense moved forward. however, depending on the size of
the hosting company, they might still be testing their next build.
(trust me, you prefer this vs your stuff going down whenever a mouse
sneezes) that said, the above comment is bull shit any way you look at
it. it's either an exec, sales person, or someone that doesn't know
wtf they're talking about. this is perl after all, not php (or even
python).

amazon aws is $0.10 an hour (idling) last time i checked - that's
$70/mo. and rackspace is worse (in price). while these services might
scale, i can easily find 1u of space for $100. i can also justify a
business connection for around the same price. these are obviously
levels less in redundancy and levels more in effort and insurability.
however, the old adage: cost, speed, reliability - pick two, comes to
mind. these days, though, i'd also add 'control' to that mix :)

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On Wednesday 11 May 2011 05:57:50 Jeff Pang wrote:
> 2011/5/11 :
> > Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up with Perl? Right
> > now we're with A2 Hosting and they're still stuck at version 5.8.8, and
> > they refuse to upgrade because, and I quote,
>
> Using VPS you can install any version of Perl.
> Curently I am using two VPS, one is Linode, another is namecheap's.
> Or try Amoson AMS for a year free.

You can also install a different perl somewhere under ~/ using perlbrew or
whatever:

http://search.cpan.org/dist/App-perlbrew/

Of course, making this perl behave well with mod_perl/etc. is a massive
undertaking.

That put aside, maintaining a Virtual Private Server (VPS), which is for-all-
practical-purposes a server, is considerably harder than maintaining an ssh
account, and requires one to be a good system administrator if you don't want
to get cracked. I was told that most good programmers do not make good system
administrators (despite the fact that all clueful system administrators need
to know how to code and write scripts and other stuff), because it's a very
different mentality. So I would suggest you find a better ssh-hosting, unless
you are sure you can actively maintain a proper VPS.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

--
------------------------------------------------------------ -----
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Freecell Solver - http://fc-solve.berlios.de/

Yesterday I asked one of my students if she knew what an encyclopedia is, and
she said: "Is it something like Wikipedia?".
-- http://twitter.com/alisonclement/status/8421314259

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On 11/05/2011 03:35, sono-io@fannullone.us wrote:
>
> Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up with Perl? Right now
> we're with A2 Hosting and they're still stuck at version 5.8.8, and
> they refuse to upgrade because, and I quote,
>
> "we unfortunately cannot perform a global upgrade on perl as it may
> cause severe problems with other users and applications across the
> board at this time."
>
> There has to be a company out there that doesn't treat Perl like a
> second class citizen.

Hey Marc

I wonder what you urgently need that isn't in 5.8.8? Yes, 5.10/5.12 has
a few nice things in it, but nothing life-changing.

Rob

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 11:13:51AM +0100, Rob Dixon wrote:

> I wonder what you urgently need that isn't in 5.8.8? Yes, 5.10/5.12 has
> a few nice things in it, but nothing life-changing.

I suppose the biggest things aren't really language features as such.
5.14.0 will very shortly be released. That will also mark the end of
official developer support for 5.10.x, let alone 5.8.x. This is
probably most important should any security problems be found.
Supported versions of perl are likely to receive official fixes in short
order. With unsupported versions this is unlikely.

Another consideration will be that CPAN authors will start dropping
support for older versions. Naturally you can still use older versions
of modules but again, these will probably be unsupported.

I think that hardly anyone gratuitously drops support for older
versions, but there are some nice features and bug fixes in modern
versions, and CPAN authors are going to want to make use of them, even
if you (the developer using those modules) don't.

--
Paul Johnson - paul@pjcj.net
http://www.pjcj.net

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On May 11, 2011, at 4:26 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:

>> I wonder what you urgently need that isn't in 5.8.8? Yes, 5.10/5.12 =
has
>> a few nice things in it, but nothing life-changing.
>=20
> I suppose the biggest things aren't really language features as such.
> 5.14.0 will very shortly be released. That will also mark the end of
> official developer support for 5.10.x, let alone 5.8.x. This is
> probably most important should any security problems be found.

Excellent response, as well as all the others. Bottom line for =
me is that I'm just tired of Perl being treated like the ugly stepchild. =
Whenever I talk about our script, once people hear that it's written in =
Perl, they usually just say, "Oh...". Then the next question inevitably =
is "Why don't you write it in PHP?"

I'm sure everyone here is well aware that, in some circles, Perl =
has gotten a reputation of being a dying language and I believe that =
hosting companies are partly to blame. Heck, A2 hardly even mentioned =
Perl on their website until I finally got ahold of a sympathetic ear =
there back in 2007.

Back on topic, I have some good news to report. I hear that =
Pair Networks is in the process of upgrading their servers to 5.10.1. =
Does anyone know of any others?

Marc

BTW, does Larry (or anyone else) try to persuade hosting companies to =
keep up with the latest versions of Perl? If not, that might be a good =
strategy to implement (I know - easier said than done). However, if end =
users were to see their hosts actively promoting Perl, it would go a =
long way to relieve their anxiety over paying for Perl scripts. =
Unfortunately, perception is everything. =3D:\

One more thing: I was just told that cPanel, which is written in Perl, =
is stuck at 5.8.8. If that's true, then that could be the cause of a =
lot of hosts only offering 5.8.8. Since cPanel is so popular, maybe =
they should be prodded to upgrade.=

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 2:51 PM, wrote:
> On May 11, 2011, at 4:26 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>>> I wonder what you urgently need that isn't in 5.8.8? Yes, 5.10/5.12 has
>>> a few nice things in it, but nothing life-changing.
>>
>> I suppose the biggest things aren't really language features as such.
>> 5.14.0 will very shortly be released. =A0That will also mark the end of
>> official developer support for 5.10.x, let alone 5.8.x. =A0This is
>> probably most important should any security problems be found.
>

any 'unix' distro that says they support their system for a year and a
half to two years will support your perl. in fact, generally these
same people are amongst the core perl devs. so i don't think they'd
let official perl support for a version drop that they've got in an
environment with service contracts.

> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Excellent response, as well as all the others. =A0Bottom l=
ine for me is that I'm just tired of Perl being treated like the ugly stepc=
hild. =A0Whenever I talk about our script, once people hear that it's writt=
en in Perl, they usually just say, "Oh...". =A0Then the next question inevi=
tably is "Why don't you write it in PHP?"
>

who cares? my response would be 'if you do it better in php, and you
get the same ab results as me, i'll roll with that'. my only issue
with php is that they break things between versions and people think
they can write a quick and dirty web app and put the most insecure
peace of shit up. and i don't think it has a very fast / robust parser
(?)

but, tons of smart people write python (i don't because i don't like
their parser). and ruby is pretty slick too.

> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I'm sure everyone here is well aware that, in some circles=
, Perl has gotten a reputation of being a dying language and I believe that=
hosting companies are partly to blame. =A0Heck, A2 hardly even mentioned P=
erl on their website until I finally got ahold of a sympathetic ear there b=
ack in 2007.
>

i've read some statements by some unknowledgeable people. however,
there is nothing that any other language has that perl doesn't.... ah
java has some interesting modules, but i can't stand java, so...

> One more thing: I was just told that cPanel, which is written in Perl, is=
stuck at 5.8.8. =A0If that's true, then that could be the cause of a lot o=
f hosts only offering 5.8.8. =A0Since cPanel is so popular, maybe they shou=
ld be prodded to upgrade.
>

what do you mean 'stuck'? what does any newer version of perl (besides
6 - which will break most things) has that you need? here, i'll start
your list off:
* given / when
.... anything else?

besides, it's not like cPanel (or anything else) can't tell perl to
'use 5.8.8;' - so what is the point?

i think you've sat down wrong and are just not liking older (better
tested) versions of program? i'm looking for a solid reason for you to
want a newer version - i'm doing modperl and i could remove 30 lines
with this feature, i've benchmarked my application of these two
versions and gotten x speed improvement, i'm running into cpan
dependency hell because this module said it needs >5.8, something?

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On May 11, 2011, at 12:49 PM, shawn wilson wrote:

> besides, it's not like cPanel (or anything else) can't tell perl to
> 'use 5.8.8;' - so what is the point?

My point is simply this - perception. There are plenty of hosts =
out there telling people to use them because they have the latest =
version of _X_. But how many of them tout that they have the latest =
version of Perl? In my (admittedly short) search here lately, I'd say =
Zero.

The Perl 5 community seems to have "come alive" here in the last =
few years, what with the release of 5.12 and projects like Moose, =
Catalyst, etc. This is great news! I'm excited about it and I know a =
lot of Perl developers are too. Unfortunately, the general public =
doesn't seem to know about this revival yet. I've counted 7 stable =
releases of Perl since 5.8.8, but outside of the Perl community, you'd =
think that Perl 5 was dead in the water - stuck in the year 2006 - and =
that Perl 6 is stillborn.

I inherited an e-commerce Perl script that I'm having a heck of =
a time trying to sell, and a big reason is the perception that Perl has. =
I've actually had people who were interested in it, once they found out =
it was written in Perl, say 'No thanks, I don't want it now.' simply =
because of their perception of Perl. =20

I'm not bad mouthing other languages - I've written in PHP, as =
well. I just think that we, as a community, could do more to get the =
word out that Perl is alive and well, and, IMHO, getting the major =
hosting companies on board would be a huge boost because they are the =
face of Perl to the end user.

Anyway, I realize that this is the beginners list and that I'm =
new here, so I don't want to go off on a rant. I just want to find a =
host that's committed to Perl. That's all.

Marc=

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:16 PM, wrote:
> On May 11, 2011, at 12:49 PM, shawn wilson wrote:
>
>> besides, it's not like cPanel (or anything else) can't tell perl to
>> 'use 5.8.8;' - so what is the point?
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0My point is simply this - perception. =A0There are plenty =
of hosts out there telling people to use them because they have the latest =
version of _X_. =A0But how many of them tout that they have the latest vers=
ion of Perl? =A0In my (admittedly short) search here lately, I'd say Zero.
>

well, if you'd like to look into different hosting solutions and see
what their support for perl is (both technical expertise and version),
it would be a good topic to write about. i'd be interested in the
verdict.

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On 11/05/2011 03:35, sono-io@fannullone.us wrote:
>
> Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up with Perl? Right now
> we're with A2 Hosting and they're still stuck at version 5.8.8, and
> they refuse to upgrade because, and I quote . . .

This is off topic, as the original poster said.

Please can we talk about Perl the language, for beginners?

Rob


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On Wed, 11 May 2011 11:13:51 +0100, Rob Dixon wrote:
> I wonder what you urgently need that isn't in 5.8.8? Yes, 5.10/5.12 has
> a few nice things in it, but nothing life-changing.

Some modules won't build with the version of ExtUtils::MakeMaker that=20
comes with 5.8.8. Fairly major modules too, although I'm not sure=20
exactly which ones right now. And cpan ExtUtils::MakeMaker won't help=20
since core comes before site in @INC.

--=20
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/ http://www.perldebugged.com/
http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=3D0137001274
http://www.oreillyschool.com/courses/perl3/

--=20
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

On 11 May 2011 03:35, wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Can someone recommend a good ISP that keeps up with Perl?
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0There has to be a company out there that doesn't treat Per=
l like a second class citizen.

http://www.dotcloud.com/ is in beta with Perl but might be worth
looking at if that fits your needs

Leo

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/

Re: [OT] Good Perl ISP"s

2011/5/22 Leo Lapworth :
> http://www.dotcloud.com/ is in beta with Perl but might be worth
> looking at if that fits your needs
Yes, i think good, and Tatsuhiko Miyagawa the author of PSGI and much
more module at join dotcloud.


--
\0/ Hobbestigrou
site web: erakis.im

--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
http://learn.perl.org/