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#1: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-09-30 22:24:19 by Casey West

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Hello list members,

John SJ Anderson has accepted the role of list moderator. He'll be
responsible for the moderation of this list as he sees fit. If you have any
questions about that you can ask him directly or read the somewhat out of
date FAQ about the list:

http://learn.perl.org/faq/beginners.html

Thanks, John.

- Casey

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#2: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-01 00:51:04 by Octavian Rasnita

From: "Casey West" <casey@geeknest.com>
> Hello list members,
>=20
> John SJ Anderson has accepted the role of list moderator. He'll be
> responsible for the moderation of this list as he sees fit. If you =
have any
> questions about that you can ask him directly or read the somewhat out =
of
> date FAQ about the list:
>=20
> http://learn.perl
..org/faq/beginners.html
>=20
> Thanks, John.
>=20
> - Casey


Hi Casey and John,

I would like to put a question. Is top-posting accepted on the list?
(If it is, then I think that the messages that tell those who top-post =
to bottom-post should be not allowed, or if top-posting is not accepted, =
then this should be described somewhere in the list's description.)

Thanks.

Octavian


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#3: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 17:25:04 by John SJ Anderson

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 18:51, Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to put a question. Is top-posting accepted on the list?

I've thought about this for a while, and I think I've finally got
something that should make everybody about equally annoyed. (There is
no solution to this problem that will please everybody, or even please
a sizable majority. It is the "toilet paper over or under?" of the
mailing list world.)

Let me preface this by saying that my personal preference is for
bottom-posting. I cut my teeth on Usenet and large mailing lists and
bottom-posting *with editting* seems like a sensible way to
communicate to me. That said, I've also made my peace with shifting
into "top-posting mode" when I'm dealing with people who don't have my
preferences or experiences.

So (and I will include a version of this in a "list culture" section
that I will be adding to the FAQ):

* We prefer bottom-posting but we will tolerate top posters.
* We may *politely* _ask_ people to bottom-post.
* We will not demand or order people to bottom-post.
* We are free to not reply to people who top-post, or to otherwise ignore them.

(Aside from the "don't demand/order top-posting", I think this is a
fair synopsis of current list behavior, which was a large factor in
this decision.)

Thanks for raising the issue, Octavian.

chrs,
john.

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#4: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 17:37:31 by Zachary Zebrowski

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++ some mail clients (eg. Gmail) make it very hard to bottom post. Thanks
for not excluding me. :)
On Oct 6, 2011 11:28 AM, "John SJ Anderson" <genehack@genehack.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 18:51, Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> I would like to put a question. Is top-posting accepted on the list?
>
> I've thought about this for a while, and I think I've finally got
> something that should make everybody about equally annoyed. (There is
> no solution to this problem that will please everybody, or even please
> a sizable majority. It is the "toilet paper over or under?" of the
> mailing list world.)
>
> Let me preface this by saying that my personal preference is for
> bottom-posting. I cut my teeth on Usenet and large mailing lists and
> bottom-posting *with editting* seems like a sensible way to
> communicate to me. That said, I've also made my peace with shifting
> into "top-posting mode" when I'm dealing with people who don't have my
> preferences or experiences.
>
> So (and I will include a version of this in a "list culture" section
> that I will be adding to the FAQ):
>
> * We prefer bottom-posting but we will tolerate top posters.
> * We may *politely* _ask_ people to bottom-post.
> * We will not demand or order people to bottom-post.
> * We are free to not reply to people who top-post, or to otherwise ignore
them.
>
> (Aside from the "don't demand/order top-posting", I think this is a
> fair synopsis of current list behavior, which was a large factor in
> this decision.)
>
> Thanks for raising the issue, Octavian.
>
> chrs,
> john.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
> http://learn.perl.org/
>
>

--bcaec520e5e36c2ef004aea31a97--

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#5: RE: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 17:45:38 by Bob McConnell

Lookout is another. I have to manually edit each line to turn this into
a bottom post. They totally dropped the Usenet style reply option in the
Office 2003 release.

Bob McConnell

-----Original Message-----
From: Zachary Zebrowski [mailto:zak.zebrowski@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:38 AM
To: John SJ Anderson
Cc: Perl Beginners
Subject: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

++ some mail clients (eg. Gmail) make it very hard to bottom post.
Thanks
for not excluding me. :)
On Oct 6, 2011 11:28 AM, "John SJ Anderson" <genehack@genehack.org>
wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 18:51, Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> I would like to put a question. Is top-posting accepted on the list?
>
> I've thought about this for a while, and I think I've finally got
> something that should make everybody about equally annoyed. (There is
> no solution to this problem that will please everybody, or even please
> a sizable majority. It is the "toilet paper over or under?" of the
> mailing list world.)
>
> Let me preface this by saying that my personal preference is for
> bottom-posting. I cut my teeth on Usenet and large mailing lists and
> bottom-posting *with editting* seems like a sensible way to
> communicate to me. That said, I've also made my peace with shifting
> into "top-posting mode" when I'm dealing with people who don't have my
> preferences or experiences.
>
> So (and I will include a version of this in a "list culture" section
> that I will be adding to the FAQ):
>
> * We prefer bottom-posting but we will tolerate top posters.
> * We may *politely* _ask_ people to bottom-post.
> * We will not demand or order people to bottom-post.
> * We are free to not reply to people who top-post, or to otherwise
ignore
them.
>
> (Aside from the "don't demand/order top-posting", I think this is a
> fair synopsis of current list behavior, which was a large factor in
> this decision.)
>
> Thanks for raising the issue, Octavian.
>
> chrs,
> john.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscribe@perl.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-help@perl.org
> http://learn.perl.org/
>
>

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#6: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 17:51:57 by Shawn H Corey

On 11-10-06 11:37 AM, Zachary Zebrowski wrote:
> some mail clients (eg. Gmail) make it very hard to bottom post. Thanks
> for not excluding me. :)

I don't mind top posters but I wished more people would trim the quotes.
Top posting makes people lazy and they include the entire quote, making
the messages grow longer and longer.

And the argument that it should be included for continuity makes little
sense since only one branch of the thread is included. If you really
want to read the entire thread, see the archive:
http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.beginners/


--
Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
Shawn

Confusion is the first step of understanding.

Programming is as much about organization and communication
as it is about coding.

The secret to great software: Fail early & often.

Eliminate software piracy: use only FLOSS.

"Make something worthwhile." -- Dear Hunter

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#7: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 17:53:00 by Shawn H Corey

On 11-10-06 11:45 AM, Bob McConnell wrote:
> Lookout is another.

Are people still using that?


--
Just my 0.00000002 million dollars worth,
Shawn

Confusion is the first step of understanding.

Programming is as much about organization and communication
as it is about coding.

The secret to great software: Fail early & often.

Eliminate software piracy: use only FLOSS.

"Make something worthwhile." -- Dear Hunter

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#8: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 18:17:36 by Ali Nabavi

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On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 11:51, Shawn H Corey <shawnhcorey@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11-10-06 11:37 AM, Zachary Zebrowski wrote:
>
>> some mail clients (eg. Gmail) make it very hard to bottom post. Thanks
>> for not excluding me. :)
>>
>
> I don't mind top posters but I wished more people would trim the quotes.
> Top posting makes people lazy and they include the entire quote, making the
> messages grow longer and longer.
>

Word!!! Which is one reason why I thought Google Wave was so wonderful.
None of that unnecessary redundancy and overhead.

http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-in-a-box
http://googlewavedev.blogspot.com/2010/09/wave-open-source-n ext-steps-wave-in-box.html


-Ali


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#9: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 18:31:31 by Zachary Zebrowski

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On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Shawn H Corey <shawnhcorey@gmail.com>wrote:

> On 11-10-06 11:37 AM, Zachary Zebrowski wrote:
>
>> some mail clients (eg. Gmail) make it very hard to bottom post. Thanks
>> for not excluding me. :)
>>
>
> I don't mind top posters but I wished more people would trim the quotes.
> Top posting makes people lazy and they include the entire quote, making the
> messages grow longer and longer.
>
>

I wonder if there was a way for the mail server to be configured to do
that... Google mail trims the messages when you're viewing it, but when you
reply, you reply to the original message and the messages beneth it without
an option to change on the android client...

--bcaec51dd197754bde04aea3dbaf--

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#10: Re: John SJ Anderson is Perl Beginners list moderator

Posted on 2011-10-06 18:34:01 by John SJ Anderson

Okay, meta-topics are always on topic, but this one is pretty run into
the ground and doesn't have anything to do with Perl -- let's let this
thread die out, and get back to the beginner questions...

thanks,
john.

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