DBD::mysql license?

DBD::mysql license?

am 15.01.2004 05:20:54 von Dave Rolsky

So I recently realized that libmysqlclient is (as of MySQL 4.0) now under
the GPL, as opposed to the LGPL.

This means that DBD::mysql, which is currently under the "same as Perl
license", is in violation of the libmysqlclient license.

Moreover, it means that any code that uses DBD::mysql must be distributed
under the GPL (if it is distributed at all), or the distributor would need
to purchase a commercial license from MySQL.

Rudy, have you talked to the folks at MySQL about this? This is obviously
a pretty big problem, since the standard in the Perl community is to
license library code under the same terms as Perl itself. Since there are
a number of modules on CPAN that use DBD::mysql (including my project
Alzabo), this affects quite a number of developers.

Also, for those who care, from what I can tell the MySQL AB folks would
like to claim that something like DBD::mysqlPP (the pure Perl MySQL DBI
driver) would must be GPL'd. They are claiming that simply _interacting_
over a socket with the GPL MySQL server is sufficient to become a
derivative work.

This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
over a protocol.

IANAL and all that, but this issue does affect pretty much all DBD::mysql
users.

I know that MySQL has specifically exempted PHP applications that link to
the client from the GPL, and instead allows them to be distributed under
version 3.0 of the license.

It would be nice if they would provide a similar Perl exception allowing
DBD::mysql to be distributed under the same terms as Perl itself.


-dave

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Re: DBD::mysql license?

am 21.01.2004 04:33:30 von Rudy Lippan

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Dave Rolsky wrote:

> So I recently realized that libmysqlclient is (as of MySQL 4.0) now under
> the GPL, as opposed to the LGPL.
>

Yeah. I noticed that a few weeks ago, but I did not release that there was
a change as of 4.0 -- this actually makes things easier, methinks because
there is nothing in the current version of DBD::mysql that uses the new
api functions.

> This means that DBD::mysql, which is currently under the "same as Perl
> license", is in violation of the libmysqlclient license.
>

Based on your comment above, it would be in violation iff I
devloped against 4.x :)

> Moreover, it means that any code that uses DBD::mysql must be distributed
> under the GPL (if it is distributed at all), or the distributor would need
> to purchase a commercial license from MySQL.
>

If the distributor uses 4.x yes. Otherwise we are probably looking at a
gray area?

> Rudy, have you talked to the folks at MySQL about this? This is obviously
> a pretty big problem, since the standard in the Perl community is to
> license library code under the same terms as Perl itself. Since there are
> a number of modules on CPAN that use DBD::mysql (including my project
> Alzabo), this affects quite a number of developers.

Not yet. But I will bring it up with them. You make a good argument here.
I was thinking about making DBD::mysql 3.0 GPL to be compatable with the
client library license, but I guess you are right most perl authors will
want to be able to distribute under the same terms as perl.


> Also, for those who care, from what I can tell the MySQL AB folks would
> like to claim that something like DBD::mysqlPP (the pure Perl MySQL DBI
> driver) would must be GPL'd. They are claiming that simply _interacting_
> over a socket with the GPL MySQL server is sufficient to become a
> derivative work.
>
> This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
> that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
> library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
> over a protocol.
>

Intersting. Would that mean that gaim is a derivative work of AOL IM? Or
that samba is a derivative work of windows?

> IANAL and all that, but this issue does affect pretty much all DBD::mysql
> users.

Neither am I.

>
> I know that MySQL has specifically exempted PHP applications that link to
> the client from the GPL, and instead allows them to be distributed under
> version 3.0 of the license.
>
> It would be nice if they would provide a similar Perl exception allowing
> DBD::mysql to be distributed under the same terms as Perl itself.
>

Maybe. I will ask about it.


Rudy


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Re: DBD::mysql license?

am 21.01.2004 04:33:30 von Rudy Lippan

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Dave Rolsky wrote:

> So I recently realized that libmysqlclient is (as of MySQL 4.0) now under
> the GPL, as opposed to the LGPL.
>

Yeah. I noticed that a few weeks ago, but I did not release that there was
a change as of 4.0 -- this actually makes things easier, methinks because
there is nothing in the current version of DBD::mysql that uses the new
api functions.

> This means that DBD::mysql, which is currently under the "same as Perl
> license", is in violation of the libmysqlclient license.
>

Based on your comment above, it would be in violation iff I
devloped against 4.x :)

> Moreover, it means that any code that uses DBD::mysql must be distributed
> under the GPL (if it is distributed at all), or the distributor would need
> to purchase a commercial license from MySQL.
>

If the distributor uses 4.x yes. Otherwise we are probably looking at a
gray area?

> Rudy, have you talked to the folks at MySQL about this? This is obviously
> a pretty big problem, since the standard in the Perl community is to
> license library code under the same terms as Perl itself. Since there are
> a number of modules on CPAN that use DBD::mysql (including my project
> Alzabo), this affects quite a number of developers.

Not yet. But I will bring it up with them. You make a good argument here.
I was thinking about making DBD::mysql 3.0 GPL to be compatable with the
client library license, but I guess you are right most perl authors will
want to be able to distribute under the same terms as perl.


> Also, for those who care, from what I can tell the MySQL AB folks would
> like to claim that something like DBD::mysqlPP (the pure Perl MySQL DBI
> driver) would must be GPL'd. They are claiming that simply _interacting_
> over a socket with the GPL MySQL server is sufficient to become a
> derivative work.
>
> This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
> that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
> library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
> over a protocol.
>

Intersting. Would that mean that gaim is a derivative work of AOL IM? Or
that samba is a derivative work of windows?

> IANAL and all that, but this issue does affect pretty much all DBD::mysql
> users.

Neither am I.

>
> I know that MySQL has specifically exempted PHP applications that link to
> the client from the GPL, and instead allows them to be distributed under
> version 3.0 of the license.
>
> It would be nice if they would provide a similar Perl exception allowing
> DBD::mysql to be distributed under the same terms as Perl itself.
>

Maybe. I will ask about it.


Rudy


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Re: DBD::mysql license?

am 25.01.2004 04:08:35 von Dave Rolsky

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:

> > > This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
> > > that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
> > > library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
> > > over a protocol.
>
> Dave, do you have a quote for that?

No, but after my earlier email I exchanged emails with some MySQL folks
and they did say that this idea had been discussed.


-dave

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Re: DBD::mysql license?

am 25.01.2004 04:08:35 von Dave Rolsky

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:

> > > This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
> > > that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
> > > library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
> > > over a protocol.
>
> Dave, do you have a quote for that?

No, but after my earlier email I exchanged emails with some MySQL folks
and they did say that this idea had been discussed.


-dave

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Re: DBD::mysql license?

am 25.01.2004 04:12:09 von Dave Rolsky

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Rudy Lippan wrote:

> Yeah. I noticed that a few weeks ago, but I did not release that there was
> a change as of 4.0 -- this actually makes things easier, methinks because
> there is nothing in the current version of DBD::mysql that uses the new
> api functions.
>
> > This means that DBD::mysql, which is currently under the "same as Perl
> > license", is in violation of the libmysqlclient license.
> >
>
> Based on your comment above, it would be in violation iff I
> devloped against 4.x :)

This doesn't matter. In this case, the reason DBD::mysql is a derivative
work is that it _links_ to libmysqlclient. If you link to libmysqlcient
from MySQL 4.0+, you've made a derivative work of MySQL 4.0, and the
derivative work must therefore be GPL'd (according to the GPL).

> > Moreover, it means that any code that uses DBD::mysql must be distributed
> > under the GPL (if it is distributed at all), or the distributor would need
> > to purchase a commercial license from MySQL.
>
> If the distributor uses 4.x yes. Otherwise we are probably looking at a
> gray area?

Right, this all depends on what it's linked with.

> > Also, for those who care, from what I can tell the MySQL AB folks would
> > like to claim that something like DBD::mysqlPP (the pure Perl MySQL DBI
> > driver) would must be GPL'd. They are claiming that simply _interacting_
> > over a socket with the GPL MySQL server is sufficient to become a
> > derivative work.
> >
> > This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
> > that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
> > library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
> > over a protocol.
>
> Intersting. Would that mean that gaim is a derivative work of AOL IM? Or
> that samba is a derivative work of windows?

The logic seems the same. As I said, I don't buy this argument. I
brought up the Samba example in my discussion with Zak Greant, MySQL's
community liason person. My thinking if that MS hasn't tried to sue the
Samba developers, then this case can't be won. After all, MS has a
financial incentive to kill Samba (which helps people migrate _away_ from
MS products), and the money for lawyers.


-dave

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Re: DBD::mysql license?

am 25.01.2004 04:12:09 von Dave Rolsky

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Rudy Lippan wrote:

> Yeah. I noticed that a few weeks ago, but I did not release that there was
> a change as of 4.0 -- this actually makes things easier, methinks because
> there is nothing in the current version of DBD::mysql that uses the new
> api functions.
>
> > This means that DBD::mysql, which is currently under the "same as Perl
> > license", is in violation of the libmysqlclient license.
> >
>
> Based on your comment above, it would be in violation iff I
> devloped against 4.x :)

This doesn't matter. In this case, the reason DBD::mysql is a derivative
work is that it _links_ to libmysqlclient. If you link to libmysqlcient
from MySQL 4.0+, you've made a derivative work of MySQL 4.0, and the
derivative work must therefore be GPL'd (according to the GPL).

> > Moreover, it means that any code that uses DBD::mysql must be distributed
> > under the GPL (if it is distributed at all), or the distributor would need
> > to purchase a commercial license from MySQL.
>
> If the distributor uses 4.x yes. Otherwise we are probably looking at a
> gray area?

Right, this all depends on what it's linked with.

> > Also, for those who care, from what I can tell the MySQL AB folks would
> > like to claim that something like DBD::mysqlPP (the pure Perl MySQL DBI
> > driver) would must be GPL'd. They are claiming that simply _interacting_
> > over a socket with the GPL MySQL server is sufficient to become a
> > derivative work.
> >
> > This seems pretty wack, to my reading of the GPL, since I always thought
> > that "derivative" meant incorporating actual source and/or calling out to
> > library functions which are directly linked, as opposed to communicating
> > over a protocol.
>
> Intersting. Would that mean that gaim is a derivative work of AOL IM? Or
> that samba is a derivative work of windows?

The logic seems the same. As I said, I don't buy this argument. I
brought up the Samba example in my discussion with Zak Greant, MySQL's
community liason person. My thinking if that MS hasn't tried to sue the
Samba developers, then this case can't be won. After all, MS has a
financial incentive to kill Samba (which helps people migrate _away_ from
MS products), and the money for lawyers.


-dave

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House Absolute Consulting
www.houseabsolute.com
=======================*/

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